UK GC numbers, Splinter Cell2, and FuzionFrenzy2 news

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

According to Eurogamer

The GC isn't really doing all that hot in the UK.

"Nevertheless, during the month, the PS2's dominance showed little sign of being seriously threatened, having outsold the Xbox by 2.5 to one, while its margin over the Cube was a massive 4.88 to one, despite still being £60 more expensive than Nintendo's cheap and cheerful machine." - Eurogamer

Combined the PS2 is outselling XBOX/GC 1.63 to 1. It is absolutely killing the GC at 4.88 to 1, and 2.5 to 1 against XBOX.

"But while the PS2's nearest competitor - the Xbox - lags behind with 24.8 per cent of the unit market share (down on last month's 26.1 per cent), it has improved its sales year on year by around a quarter - although in real terms actual value terms remained static thanks to the £30 price cut since last year. Despite being so far behind the PS2, Microsoft has at least cemented its place in the No.2 slot, with its debut console outgrossing the Cube in the UK by over three to one." - Eurogamer

So, at least in the UK, XBOX is killing GC 3 to 1 since launch. I guess these guys who say GC is selling like hotcakes must live in Japan. Nintendo did gain market share in the UK, Feb'03 it was around 8%, this February it was close to 12. XBOX is around 25%. To be fair, they did say the performance was contrary to what's happening here in the states, so don't go nuclear on me GC fans.

More good news to owners of the big black box, Splinter Cell:Pandora Tomorrow will indeed release near the end of the month. The game has gone GOLD, sweet!. I was beginning to worry because an EB associate was telling me the game would be delayed until Fall. Those guys are the least informed.

Another interesting tidbit, for those of you, like myself who enjoyed FuzionFrenzy, there may be a sequel already in development, according to a Gamestop product advertisement, the sequel is on the way for June, and will include new mini-games, and LIVE support. This game should do well on LIVE. Funny thing is MS isn't commenting and have requested Gamestop take down that page. But, IGN was reporting there are some secret games MS has up its sleeve, that will be announced before May. So, i'll bet FF is one of them.

So there you go, all those people thinking XBOX is off to a slow start, it heated up pretty quickly, NinjaGaiden 93.7%, Colin4.0 87%, the Suffering and Mafia this week or next, Splinter Cell2 also in March.

There is bad news however, the worse for me, Codemasters have indeed delayed Toca2, it was reporting a ship date of 4/5, now that has slipped to 4/20. I'm sure, it will slip some more because this game is very ambitious.

[no.1gamer]

The sad part for Xbots is that the Gamecube still has more marketshare in Europe than the Xbox does in Japan. North America seems to be a healthy medium...

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

The sad part for Xbots is that the Gamecube still has more marketshare in Europe than the Xbox does in Japan. North America seems to be a healthy medium...

I don't think that's sad for Xbots, i mean i ain't sheddin a tear, Microsoft probably is. But everyone understands the reason for the performance in Japan. If it is sad for anyone it is for the Japanese gamer themselves who are denying themselves the enjoyment and fun so many across the world are enjoying, simply because they don't want to buy American.

I still find it odd how the Japanese can basically boycott american retail products, yet they absolutely love America and American culture, dress, music, movies.

[no.1gamer]

I still find it odd how the Japanese can basically boycott american retail products, yet they absolutely love America and American culture, dress, music, movies.

I agree. Not just video games but all "American retail products." I believe the Gamecube is made almost entirely of American parts though. It's all assembled over in Japan.

[Gamer88]

no.1gamer
The sad part for Xbots is that the Gamecube still has more marketshare in Europe than the Xbox does in Japan. North America seems to be a healthy medium...

Its not sad for Xbots. Like Daman said, Microsoft may not like it but it doesn't effect Xbot's. I don't see why people even care about who is selling more between Gamecube and Xbox when both of them combined doesn't even equal up to Ps2 sales. Plus does it even effect gameplay at all? Xbox is a great console with many good games regardless of how many consoles it has sold. Same goes for Gamecube

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

The sad part for Xbots is that the Gamecube still has more marketshare in Europe than the Xbox does in Japan. North America seems to be a healthy medium...

I'm not sad (eventhough I'm a multiplat gamer and not an Xbot), especially since I don't keep up with any sales charts from those regions.


I'm eager to play Splinter Cell 2, but I hope I don't become as frustrated as I did with the first one. From the previews, I think I will enjoy this one more. The EBGames associate probably thought you were referring to the PS2 or GC versions of SC2, Daman, since they were the ones that were delayed.

I'm also planning on getting Mafia and a baseball game (probably MVP).

[no.1gamer]

no.1gamer


Its not sad for Xbots. Like Daman said, Microsoft may not like it but it doesn't effect Xbot's. I don't see why people even care about who is selling more between Gamecube and Xbox when both of them combined doesn't even equal up to Ps2 sales. Plus does it even effect gameplay at all? Xbox is a great console with many good games regardless of how many consoles it has sold. Same goes for Gamecube

That's not a very good System Wars attitude Gamer88. You're supposed to mindlessly bash one or more specific platforms.

In reality the Xbox is indeed a pretty good gaming console. I just like to pick on Xbots because it's fun.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

In reality the Xbox is indeed a pretty good gaming console. I just like to pick on Xbots because it's fun.

I know I said I'm not an Xbot, but....what exactly is an Xbot? I must have missed that during the time I wasn't coming into System Wars.


About Splinter Cell 2, there's an article on 1UP.com saying SC 2 is only 8 levels long. That's not bad for gamers who are wanting to play the online portion, but ones who enjoy single player games more, it's something to think about when it comes to getting the game.



To keep up with mindless bashing........BOOOOOOOOO Gamecube!!

[no.1gamer]

I know I said I'm not an Xbot, but....what exactly is an Xbot? I must have missed that during the time I wasn't coming into System Wars.


An Xbot is someone who mindlessly buys whatever product Bill Gates tells you to. While you're playing your Xbox you're little Xbot brain (or microprocessor if you've already been completely converted) is unknowingly being programmed by Bill Gates. You are therefore a Xbot or robot programmed to obey any and all orders Bill Gates assigns to you.

An obvious symptom is someone bragging about an Xbox game or feature that he/she/it doesn't even like. Even if an Xbot doesn't like Star Wars or RPGs it will claim that KOTOR is better than games on another platforms. Or when an Xbot (Evolution) will brag about Xbox Live even though it has a monthly fee and he doesn't even have it anyway. But Bill Gates has programmed him to say it's better than the PC and PS2's free online games.

While we're at it can someone define the Nintendo Brownie Hound for us. I suspect that I would fall into that stereotype...

[Bob-the-Fish]

what exactly is an Xbot?
To keep up with mindless bashing........BOOOOOOOOO Gamecube!!= Xbot

8 levels on SC2? That seems a bit short to me. Unless they are crazy big levels, this is going to be one short game if you already know the play mechanics from the first one. Still it should be fun and I'm sure they'll have some more downloadable levels at some point.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

We will see how big the levels are, but it looks like these games are starting to focus more and more on the LIVE portion. I kinda agree with this philosophy, once I finished Rainbow6, now I only play it on LIVE, and i've played it on LIVE probably 4 times as much as I played the single player, if not more. I can say the same about MGP2, PGR2, Midtown Madness I never even finished the single player, Crimson Skies I played single player once, and never again, the rest of the time on LIVE. I am actually beginning to think they need to start having two review scores for these games. Because the reviews are 90% based on the single player, if not 100%. They usually only have a paragraph about playing online.

Anyway, i'm sure there will be plenty of DC, there was with the first game.

[no.1gamer]

I am actually beginning to think they need to start having two review scores for these games. Because the reviews are 90% based on the single player, if not 100%. They usually only have a paragraph about playing online.


Actually most Xbox Live games are just criticized for their half @$$ online portion. This really isn't fair at all because Microsoft is charging money every month. So it's good that most Xbox games have online content even if it isn't the most elaborate server ever devised. Many reviewers are trying to compare console gaming online to PC gaming online, which also isn't fair for consoles. Hey, at least Microsoft is trying to get console gaming online. I suspect the monthly fee was the best decision for Microsoft with the low userbase of the Xbox.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Actually most Xbox Live games are just criticized for their half @$$ online portion. This really isn't fair at all because Microsoft is charging money every month. So it's good that most Xbox games have online content even if it isn't the most elaborate server ever devised. Many reviewers are trying to compare console gaming online to PC gaming online, which also isn't fair for consoles. Hey, at least Microsoft is trying to get console gaming online. I suspect the monthly fee was the best decision for Microsoft with the low userbase of the Xbox.

Some live games do have half-azzed implementation, like Sega GT ONLINE. That game sucks from the lobby to the choppy gameplay. For example, people can't join a lobby while a race is underway. You can't remove people from the lobby. You can set up parameters for the kind of race, like class or car restrictions. To few tracks. Plus the actual online play is bad with more than 4 or 5 people.

Other games are great, and when this happens console online, kills PC online. When I first played PGR2 online, I hated it, too many crappy racers, everyone picking the Ultimate cars, only 3 laps. Now, I host rooms, I play in exhibition mode so I pick the number of laps, I can restrict the car classes, I can kick out bad drivers, and it is great because of that flexibility. And there is no lag, tons of courses and cars.

So, the praise or fault doesn't like with Microsoft or with Live, it lies with the developer. The tools are there for developers to create top knotch online games, if they don't its their fault. That is why there should be a separate rating to indicate how well Live is implemented.

[no.1gamer]

...and when this happens console online, kills PC online.

Wah, ha, ha, ha, ha!

He said conole online kills PC online? Good one Daman!

Wah, ha, ha, ha, ha!

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Wah, ha, ha, ha, ha!

He said conole online kills PC online? Good one Daman!

Wah, ha, ha, ha, ha!

"StarCraft and Warcraft III Accounts Closed SOURCE: Game Rankings
A number of additional accounts and CD keys have been tied to the use of a hack or cheat program while playing StarCraft or Warcraft III on Battle.net. In keeping with our aggressive stance against cheating, we have permanently closed 263,000 StarCraft accounts and 19,000 Warcraft III accounts. 8,000 of the Warcraft III CD keys used with the now-closed accounts have been banned from ladder play for one month, and 1,100 more have been banned from ladder play permanently. Repeat offenders risk having their CD keys disabled, which will result in the permanent removal of their copies of StarCraft or Warcraft III from Battle.net.
We will continue to monitor Battle.net for cheating and take action as needed. A false report filed by one player against another will not result in the actions described above. "

Yup, that's exactly what I said.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

What's so funny is Starcraft was one of the last games I played online, I can't believe people are still using Battle.net, i had completely forgotten all about battlenet till someone on this site mentioned it. Give me LIVE any day of the week over EA, Battlenet, Gamespy...

[Bob-the-Fish]

What's so funny is Starcraft was one of the last games I played online, I can't believe people are still using Battle.net, i had completely forgotten all about battlenet till someone on this site mentioned it. Give me LIVE any day of the week over EA, Battlenet, Gamespy...

I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one then, considering that there are always at least 30,000 people on battle.net at any time of day. And that's the slow hours, usually it's closer to 50K. I can't even remember if that's just for one game either. Each game, SC, WC3, D2 may all have those numbers. Good luck finding that on Live.

[no.1gamer]

I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one then, considering that there are always at least 30,000 people on battle.net at any time of day. And that's the slow hours, usually it's closer to 50K. I can't even remember if that's just for one game either. Each game, SC, WC3, D2 may all have those numbers. Good luck finding that on Live.

That is for just one game actually. At any given point there is a quarter of a million gamers logged onto battle.net. I believe that is more gamers than there are Xbox Live subscribers in total. That's 250,000 gamers at any 1 specific time, not total battle.net members. I would suspect that there are more battle.net members than total people in the world that own an Xbox.

That's just one server and about 4 or 5 games. Although Microsoft is doing a decent job with Xbox Live it really doesn't hold a candle to online PC gaming. Sorry. Daman has just shown us another symptom of the Xbot.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

We will see how big the levels are, but it looks like these games are starting to focus more and more on the LIVE portion.


I hope this isn't going to be the future of Xbox games, after this year anyway.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one then, considering that there are always at least 30,000 people on battle.net at any time of day. And that's the slow hours, usually it's closer to 50K. I can't even remember if that's just for one game either. Each game, SC, WC3, D2 may all have those numbers. Good luck finding that on Live.

Oh I have no doubt many people are still playing on battle.net, I was just saying I completely forgot all about it. If people still enjoy those games, that's good for them. But I could never play those games again, even if I was still gaming on the PC. Those games are old as a Trans Am.

As far as numbers, its not about numbers all the time, its about quality of the experience. I don't need 30,000 people, all I need is 8 or 16 good gamers, depending on what game i'm playing maybe only 4. And I need fast connections, voice chat, a great lobby, the ability to change games parameters, control the room. I mean they had to shutdown 260,000 cheaters, that is crazy, who wants to deal with that? But, like they say to each his own.
I've played two of those games StarCraft and Diablo2, I never played WC3, but i've played all the previous warcrafts, i'll take the current crop of LIVE games over those games any day. Those games were great back in the day, but that was like years ago.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I hope this isn't going to be the future of Xbox games, after this year anyway.

Why not? I mean you get so much more replay value from a LIVE game than a normal game. Some games, like Ninja Gaiden are great without LIVE. But a game like Rainbow6 or Ghost Recon, you can continue to play for years after you finish the single player, and have even more fun.

I take it you aren't online?

[no.1gamer]

I take it you aren't online?

Not many Xbox gamers are. That's the problem.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Not many Xbox gamers are. That's the problem.

Can you explain how you think this is a problem?

[PapaSmurf]

Oh I have no doubt many people are still playing on battle.net, I was just saying I completely forgot all about it. If people still enjoy those games, that's good for them. But I could never play those games again, even if I was still gaming on the PC. Those games are old as a Trans Am.

As far as numbers, its not about numbers all the time, its about quality of the experience. I don't need 30,000 people, all I need is 8 or 16 good gamers, depending on what game i'm playing maybe only 4. And I need fast connections, voice chat, a great lobby, the ability to change games parameters, control the room. I mean they had to shutdown 260,000 cheaters, that is crazy, who wants to deal with that? But, like they say to each his own.
I've played two of those games StarCraft and Diablo2, I never played WC3, but i've played all the previous warcrafts, i'll take the current crop of LIVE games over those games any day. Those games were great back in the day, but that was like years ago.
Its about the quality of the experience eh? So basicly your telling that PC gaming online doesn't offer you quality experience and, dare I say millions, of PC gamers are having dull experiences?

Your arguement is going to crap daman. Quite frankly it is about numbers and don't give me that the mass majority people are casual gamers when you argue against the PS2. When it comes to PC gaming the mass majority are hard core gamers and your telling us that your quality of gaming greatly surpasses what they're doing? Yet these are hardcore gamers just like you. You would think if you got bored of that stuff and could never go back, well hell they'd all have your same wise opinion.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Why not? I mean you get so much more replay value from a LIVE game than a normal game. Some games, like Ninja Gaiden are great without LIVE. But a game like Rainbow6 or Ghost Recon, you can continue to play for years after you finish the single player, and have even more fun.

I take it you aren't online?

Nope, I'm not online. The games that are online for both PS2 and Xbox are not enough for me to consider getting online. Shooters, racing, exhibition sports games, etc, just don't cut it when it comes to my gaming. The only thing that would make me consider getting online is a sports game with a full blown franchise mode, but I just don't see that happening any time soon. For now, I just see online as an option, or game mode, and not "the next big thing".

[Bob-the-Fish]

For now, I just see online as an option, or game mode, and not "the next big thing".

At this point in console online gaming, I agree with you that it has not materialized into the next big thing yet. It has the potential, but until we get more games like the new SC and Syphon Filter it's just the same old deathmatches that we played in four player split screen years ago. FFXI and True Fantasy are bringing MMOs to the consoles and RS3 has some of the best PvP action but those have been done to death already by the PC scene. So if this is the next evolution of console gaming, the PC is light years ahead of us.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Nope, I'm not online. The games that are online for both PS2 and Xbox are not enough for me to consider getting online. Shooters, racing, exhibition sports games, etc, just don't cut it when it comes to my gaming. The only thing that would make me consider getting online is a sports game with a full blown franchise mode, but I just don't see that happening any time soon. For now, I just see online as an option, or game mode, and not "the next big thing".

Yeah and that's you, basically you are saying the only thing that is going to get you online is a sports game, but oh wait, one with a franchise mode. That is a pretty stringent and limited parameter. But that is what is takes for you to enjoy online gaming, not everyone. Most people have a more open attitude to the games they want to play online.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

At this point in console online gaming, I agree with you that it has not materialized into the next big thing yet. It has the potential, but until we get more games like the new SC and Syphon Filter it's just the same old deathmatches that we played in four player split screen years ago. FFXI and True Fantasy are bringing MMOs to the consoles and RS3 has some of the best PvP action but those have been done to death already by the PC scene. So if this is the next evolution of console gaming, the PC is light years ahead of us.

PC online gaming has been around for a long time. XBOX Live is relatively new, you can't expect LIVE to hit the ground running with MMORPGs. It is quite okay to sit around and wait until there are games YOU enjoy before you go online, but that doesn't mean there are a LOT of game out there now people are enjoying online. And there are plenty of different types of games out there aside from deathmatch. I never play deathmatch online, and i'm online at least 10 hours a week. But like I said, people are going to knock things until they try them, i'm not trying to convince people to get on LIVE, i don't have to, the thing holding back online gaming is not the games, its broadband access. Plus, unlike No.1 Gamer says, it is not hard at all to find people to play against on LIVE.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Its about the quality of the experience eh? So basicly your telling that PC gaming online doesn't offer you quality experience and, dare I say millions, of PC gamers are having dull experiences?

Your arguement is going to crap daman. Quite frankly it is about numbers and don't give me that the mass majority people are casual gamers when you argue against the PS2. When it comes to PC gaming the mass majority are hard core gamers and your telling us that your quality of gaming greatly surpasses what they're doing? Yet these are hardcore gamers just like you. You would think if you got bored of that stuff and could never go back, well hell they'd all have your same wise opinion.

You damn skippy that's what i'm telling you. I use to play online with the PC, maybe you haven't, there is NOTHING new going on in PC gaming that is great. In fact, I stopped gaming online on the PC, long before I started using LIVE. Years before. And guess what people are still playing the same old games I use to play. People are playing Diablo2 for cryin out loud. Diablo2 is a steaming pile of crap compared to LIVE games. I could NEVER NEVER go back to playing Diablo2, that would be a major step backwards for me. Ditto with StarCraft and Command&Conquer and Quake3 and UnrealTournament, you know how much I played that crap. I have played these games and what I play on LIVE is not only better, but waaaaaaaaaaay better, to me, and i'm sure to most people on LIVE. Why don't you guys go buy a copy of StarCraft or Diablo2, you can probably pick it up for $10, go on Battle.net and see for yourself. You are not going to convince anyone in the know that PC gaming online is superior because of games like Warcraft and Diablo, get outta here with those crappy games. I'm sure, and I hope there are better PC online games than those old games.

[Darwin]

The standardized features about Live are what make Live so appealing, particularly the voice. Yes, there are PC games that allow for voice chat, but it is certainly not standard. There is no universal voice protocol for PC gaming like there is with Live games. The addition of voice adds another dimention to online gaming. This is what makes the cooperative games so much superior on Live. Rainbow Six 3 is the perfect example of this. Your team is so much more effective when using voice chat. Also, you can setup gaming sitations that would be near impossible to recreate without voice: the cat-and-mouse gaming on Project Gotham 2, for example.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

That is for just one game actually. At any given point there is a quarter of a million gamers logged onto battle.net. I believe that is more gamers than there are Xbox Live subscribers in total. That's 250,000 gamers at any 1 specific time, not total battle.net members. I would suspect that there are more battle.net members than total people in the world that own an Xbox.

That's just one server and about 4 or 5 games. Although Microsoft is doing a decent job with Xbox Live it really doesn't hold a candle to online PC gaming. Sorry. Daman has just shown us another symptom of the Xbot.

See I guess you come over here, thinking you are preaching to some 14 or 15 year old console gamer, who wouldn't know better. Sorry buddy, but I've been gaming online since 1995, I use to use BBS services to find gamers to play. I have played everything online from Command&Conquer, TotalAnnialation, Diablo, all the quakes and unreals, Shogo, ViperRacing, MechWarrior, MechCommander, just about any game before the year 2000 if it was online I played it. I gamed on just about every gaming service from battlenet to the internetgamingzone to gamespy.
So you are not going to convince me that PC gaming online is great due to games like Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo, you must be on CRACKER-JACKS. I don't care how many thousands are playing those games, they haven't changed at all.

How can you compare Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo2 with ProjectGotham2, CrimsonSkies, R63, MGP2, MechAssault, Topspin....Here, I'll give you some help, find some better PC games as examples. Not games from 1997 or 1998. Use an online RPG if you have to.

But here is what you are discounting. Its not even about one game, its about the whole online gaming experience. Its about your buddy list, seamless game transition, gaming invites, hosting lobbies, chat, etc. etc. etc. There is not one gaming service that offers the whole package that LIVE does, that is what i'm saying.

-on the pc do you have a buddy list? oh I know you can email or call on the phone, or see buddies on battle.net, but the answer is NO. YOU DO NOT HAVE A BUDDY LIST WHERE U CAN SEE ALL YOUR BUDDIES AND THE GAMES THEY ARE PLAYING AND SEND THEM INVITES

-on the pc can you chat in every pc game online? I know some support this, BUT THE ANSWER IS NO YOU CAN NOT CHAT IN EVERY PC GAME

-can you hosts rooms in every PC GAME? NO YOU CAN NOT, SOME BUT NOT ALL, SO THE MAJORITY OF TIME, YOU DON'T CONTROL THE ENVIRONMENT

-can you boot people in every game or set up parameters that filter peoples choices? SOME GAMES, BUT NOT MOST. Most people join internet servers and have no control over the experience, they can't deal with cheaters, or remove people playing like jerks

-Can you have 2 players on one PC online playing together? NO YOU CAN NOT DO THIS AT ALL ON THE PC.


There does not exist, a service on the PC, that does everything LIVE does.
No one is saying you can't have on the PC online, but I do not enjoy it anymore and I would not want to go back to PC gaming, after gaming on LIVE. You wanna stay with PC, cool, but don't think what you are doing is the best thing going, it ain't. Been there done that my friend.

[Bob-the-Fish]

-on the pc do you have a buddy list? oh I know you can email or call on the phone, or see buddies on battle.net, but the answer is NO. YOU DO NOT HAVE A BUDDY LIST WHERE U CAN SEE ALL YOUR BUDDIES AND THE GAMES THEY ARE PLAYING AND SEND THEM INVITES

Actually, since AIM is free and available to everyone, it is possible to set up a buddy list for every game you play. Just give your AIM name to your buddies and set your away message to say what game your in. Anyone who signs on to AIM will know what game you're playing and can act accordingly.

-on the pc can you chat in every pc game online? I know some support this, BUT THE ANSWER IS NO YOU CAN NOT CHAT IN EVERY PC GAME

Voice chat is great. But it's not essential to every game, especially strategy games like SC and WC3. It is great to have in team oriented games like RS3, but for the vast majority of online games, it's nice not to have to listen to the whinning, taunts and rapping by sqeaky 13 year old kids who are home "sick."

I haven't played online on the PC since SC. I do have Live though, and I haven't been blown away by it. Maybe because there are only so many death matches I can sit through before I get bored. When they start making online games that offer something different, I'll be quicker to jump on the band wagon, but I'll take a few friends in the same room on a good game of system link Halo over Live any day.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Actually, since AIM is free and available to everyone, it is possible to set up a buddy list for every game you play. Just give your AIM name to your buddies and set your away message to say what game your in. Anyone who signs on to AIM will know what game you're playing and can act accordingly.



Voice chat is great. But it's not essential to every game, especially strategy games like SC and WC3. It is great to have in team oriented games like RS3, but for the vast majority of online games, it's nice not to have to listen to the whinning, taunts and rapping by sqeaky 13 year old kids who are home "sick."

I haven't played online on the PC since SC. I do have Live though, and I haven't been blown away by it. Maybe because there are only so many death matches I can sit through before I get bored. When they start making online games that offer something different, I'll be quicker to jump on the band wagon, but I'll take a few friends in the same room on a good game of system link Halo over Live any day.

"Actually, since AIM is free and available to everyone, it is possible to set up a buddy list for every game you play. Just give your AIM name to your buddies and set your away message to say what game your in. Anyone who signs on to AIM will know what game you're playing and can act accordingly."
That's close but not the same thing, and not as convenient. By the way, do you get notification when you are playing a game, ie, when you say your friends can act accordingly, act in what way, join your game, or send you a request?

"Voice chat is great. But it's not essential to every game, especially strategy games like SC and WC3. "
Half the fun is chatting with people and laughing and joking. Talking isn't necessary in every game, for example a racing game, but it is fun. In fact, when I race I usually don't say much during the race, but then talk in between. However, I would say voice chat in a team RTS is essential. Back when I use to play Age of Empires, voice chat would have been a boon. Anyway, I couldn't see going back to the days of playing online in silence, especially in-between games all you can do is sit there and watch people change options with no input.

"Maybe because there are only so many death matches I can sit through before I get bored. "

I don't understand this comment, why don't you try and play some different games then? You can play Topspin, Links, PGR2, MGP2, you can play Rainbow6 cooperatively terrorist hunt and missions, you can play football and basketball games, you can play MidtownMadness in Hunter mode(cops chase other drivers-wicked fun). Why do you think you only are limited to deathmatch? The only deathmatch I played was in MechAssault, but even then we would play team CTF, and CrimsonSkies were I usually played Team Deathmatch.

Anyway, I have done both PC online and LIVE and for me LIVE blows away anything I use to do on the PC. Sure, of course it would be nice to have more games. But they will come in due time. Matter of fact by May there will be Splinter Cell2 and the first simulation car racer on LIVE TOCA2.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

The standardized features about Live are what make Live so appealing, particularly the voice. Yes, there are PC games that allow for voice chat, but it is certainly not standard. There is no universal voice protocol for PC gaming like there is with Live games. The addition of voice adds another dimention to online gaming. This is what makes the cooperative games so much superior on Live. Rainbow Six 3 is the perfect example of this. Your team is so much more effective when using voice chat. Also, you can setup gaming sitations that would be near impossible to recreate without voice: the cat-and-mouse gaming on Project Gotham 2, for example.

Yeah that's right, I forgot all about all the stupid little improvised games people come up with on LIVE. Like in Midtown Madness picking Hummers and one person pics a mini, and two teams play soccer, lol. I usually, don't like these improvised games, but people love doing it. How about the improvised MotoGP2 games, dirty lapping and PigDiesel's IROC. Have you ever gamed online with the PC Darwin?

[no.1gamer]

I guess the main problem with online console gaming is that developers will never see run away online hits on a console.

You'll never see a MMORPG with a half of a million subscribers (a.k.a. Everquest). It was actually tried on the PS2 which is of course the only platform that had a chance in hell at achieving the level of success as the PC. From what I understand the PS2 Everquest bombed. Keep in mind that Sony has to continue providing the server with the low number of subscribers. And of course the chance of an expansion pack or 2 is non existent. Everquest has had 7 I believe.

And you'll never see other online games that rule all (a.k.a. Warcraft 3). Warcraft 3 online has everything you mentioned about Xbox Live. Everything except the monthly fee of course. Again there is usually 30,000 people playing Warcraft 3 online at any given point. Online console games simply can't produce numbers like that. And certainly not console games that are 2 years old.

The console gaming public simply isn't large enough and isn't ready for online games of this caliber. Online console gaming continues to be a niche market.

By all means I'm not trying to insult you Daman. I'm glad that you're enjoying Xbox Live. But online PC gaming is a force that consoles are not going to overcome anytime in the near future. But it's great that people like you are pioneering the way towards mainstream online console gaming. I hope you continue to have fun with Xbox Live. Perhaps I'll jump onboard as soon as some AAA Nintendo games appear on "Nintendo Online*."

* I just made up Nintendo Online. It's not a real service. Maybe it will be with the N5 though...

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I guess my only question to you is why there needs to be sooooo many people online in a game? You can only have so many people in one game. I can understand it if there were no one to play against, which by the way does happen in some XBOX games, but certainly not the popular ones. Before the MGP2 patch there were 30,000 ranked people playing MotoGP2, i am sure there are 3 or 4 times that many playing PGR2 and Rainbow6. I usually set up some funky rooms, like an Exhibition room with no kudos racing, and 5, 6, or more laps, car restrictions, and even a room like that will fill up. I'd host Crimson Skies rooms with 16 players, as soon as someone left, another person would take their spot. The only two games I've had trouble playing are Midtown Madness and Topspin. MidtownMadness really decreased in popularity after PGR2 came out, but thankfully you can still find people playing Hunter Mode. And Topspin I was one of the first guys with the game and couldn't find many matches, i'm sure its picked up now.

I guess I never even bother to worry about the raw amount of people on LIVE at one time, since the great majority of the time you never have to worry about finding people. In fact, usually you don't even have to look no further than your buddy list. When I log on, there is usually a minimum of 12-15 people on my buddy list online, on a Friday or Saturday night, usually around 25 people on my list are online. You can have up to 100 people on your buddy list. And frequently I have to purge it.

I loved PC gaming, and I use to enjoy gaming online, but I just got tired of all the hassle. I wasted so much time getting in rooms, it was usually more set-up and looking for rooms than actually playing. And then you had to deal with people cheating etc. XBOX Live probably isn't for everybody, but it is tailor made for me. And you are right, there needs to be more games, and they are coming. XBOX and LIVE are still in their infancy. This year will be a biggie for LIVE, TrueFantasy, Halo2, SplinterCell2, Toca2, PGR2(already here), Rallisport2, Doom3, DOA Ultimate....LIVE alone will never outgrow the PC, I think there are only 750,000 LIVE users worldwide at last count, but the quality is what hooked me.

[no.1gamer]

I guess my only question to you is why there needs to be sooooo many people online in a game?

Until there's a significant number of console gamers online developers will not create great online games. I think 750,000 Xbox Live gamers is a generous estimate. Developers focusing on an online console game is a HUGE risk. Therefore developers don't give the attention to the online portion of console games. Most reviews of Xbox Live games specifically say that the Live portion is half @$$ed. Again I think this is unfair because they are comparing it to PC games. I think Xbox Live is great for console only gamers like you Daman. But I wonder how much money Microsoft has lost with Xbox Live...

[Bob-the-Fish]

Until there's a significant number of console gamers online developers will not create great online games. I think 750,000 Xbox Live gamers is a generous estimate. Developers focusing on an online console game is a HUGE risk. Therefore developers don't give the attention to the online portion of console games. Most reviews of Xbox Live games specifically say that the Live portion is half @$$ed. Again I think this is unfair because they are comparing it to PC games. I think Xbox Live is great for console only gamers like you Daman. But I wonder how much money Microsoft has lost with Xbox Live...

Xbox Live is probably one of the only places MS is making money. It can't be that expensive to keep the servers running that they aren't pocketing at least a portion of that $50 subscription fee. Plus, as I understand it, development companies must pay MS to use their Live service with their games so that's more money in the bank.

The main reaon why numbers matter is that's what developers look at. They don't ask five people if they like playing Mechassault online, they look at how many actually do.

[PapaSmurf]

I guess my only question to you is why there needs to be sooooo many people online in a game? You can only have so many people in one game. I can understand it if there were no one to play against, which by the way does happen in some XBOX games, but certainly not the popular ones. Before the MGP2 patch there were 30,000 ranked people playing MotoGP2, i am sure there are 3 or 4 times that many playing PGR2 and Rainbow6. I usually set up some funky rooms, like an Exhibition room with no kudos racing, and 5, 6, or more laps, car restrictions, and even a room like that will fill up. I'd host Crimson Skies rooms with 16 players, as soon as someone left, another person would take their spot. The only two games I've had trouble playing are Midtown Madness and Topspin. MidtownMadness really decreased in popularity after PGR2 came out, but thankfully you can still find people playing Hunter Mode. And Topspin I was one of the first guys with the game and couldn't find many matches, i'm sure its picked up now.

I guess I never even bother to worry about the raw amount of people on LIVE at one time, since the great majority of the time you never have to worry about finding people. In fact, usually you don't even have to look no further than your buddy list. When I log on, there is usually a minimum of 12-15 people on my buddy list online, on a Friday or Saturday night, usually around 25 people on my list are online. You can have up to 100 people on your buddy list. And frequently I have to purge it.

I loved PC gaming, and I use to enjoy gaming online, but I just got tired of all the hassle. I wasted so much time getting in rooms, it was usually more set-up and looking for rooms than actually playing. And then you had to deal with people cheating etc. XBOX Live probably isn't for everybody, but it is tailor made for me. And you are right, there needs to be more games, and they are coming. XBOX and LIVE are still in their infancy. This year will be a biggie for LIVE, TrueFantasy, Halo2, SplinterCell2, Toca2, PGR2(already here), Rallisport2, Doom3, DOA Ultimate....LIVE alone will never outgrow the PC, I think there are only 750,000 LIVE users worldwide at last count, but the quality is what hooked me.
Yeah tons of people are still playing those games yeah and without any voice chat nonetheless. However thats just a handful of PC games you mentioned. Ever heard of a program called teamspeak. Its almost the standard for clans now adays and your voice is heard clearly. Rainbow 6 and Planetside are games of recent where I have always used teamspeak while playing the game. Even on the PC players are starting to take adavatage of voice chat like teamspeak especially when the voice chat doesn't come with the game. Don't give me any of this well Live is more convenient crap. You download the program for FREE and most times you can find a public TS server for a game without voice chat and then just go and game on that server. Sure its not standard, but it is an OPTION you do have when it comes to PC gaming and its clear to me none of you ever took advantage of it (of course I guess with Live you don't need to cuz its just such the gaming goodness).

The most fun of had of recent is with Planetside. I think that game is plenty revolutionary and theres a game where you need to communicate to win. Strategies are huge in the game. I don't think any game online touches the strategic value of Planetside (FPS wise). Every clan in planetside that I know of uses TS as well and everyone is in a clan in PS anyways so mostly everyone is using TS. I suggest you play Planetside. I've yet to play a game that delivers the blow like PS did with the sheer ammount of players, players who cared and wanted to win by using strategy. Oops I thought only Live delivered this kind of experience though....

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Wow, I always thought Rainbow6 had voice chat for the PC. I couldn't imagine playing R6 without communication.

Well, like I said before I know some options exist to get part of the functionality of LIVE in some cases and games. And I know, there are some good pc games out there online. But the whole experience is not something I could go back to, but i'm glad you guys are still holding down the PC side of the house.

[Darwin]

Have you ever gamed online with the PC Darwin?

Online gaming for the PC was starting up when I hit college. (I spent 1994 - 2000 in college.) I had very limited resources and didn't have the ability to do that sort of online gaming. My PC in college had a 2400 baud modem built in. In fact, I had not owned a console (except for the old Atari system) until my senior year in college, and it was PS1. After college, I didn't do online gaming because I didn't get broadband for many years. I didn't realize what I was missing. I then specifically ordered broadband the month before Live was launched, for the main purpose of playing on Live and gaming is now permanently changed.

Very little actual online gaming. I did a few round of Doom online over at a friend's house in highschool (1993) with his 9600 baud modem.

There is one notable exception that occured during my last semester in the 5th year of college. Our pharmacy school had a PC lab with 8 PC's all connected with ethernet ... but noone thought to by a printer. So, noone went down there to work. Thus, we turned it into our own little gaming arena. 8 people Starcraft and Quake 2. We'd play from noon till it got dark. We all thought we were skilled, till someone showed me how to find Quake 2 games over the net ... we joined a few and got whipped pretty hard.

[no.1gamer]

All this online game talk reminds me. Nissian, you still owe me a game of Warcraft 3!!! If anyone else is on battle.net with The Frozen Throne, put me on your friends list and give me a holler. My screen name is no.1gamer just like it is here. I'm usually playing at night during the week. Or you can just tell me what your battle.net name is. You can P.M. me if you want...