Midway completely drops Gamecube

[Gadfly2317]

First there was going to be no online for the GC version of the next Mortal Kombat. Then they cancelled the project entirely. Then Midway announced it was abandoning the Gamecube entirely.

Midway has been losing money out the wazoo. While it can't be entirely blamed on GC, the type of games Midway has been making sell the worst on GC, so game over.

http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1077920469

One thing, Nintendo has not worked at all to develop an online user base, and what would be the point of yet another Mortal Kombat if it weren't to be able to fight online? But for Midway to drop GC entirely is bad. Does this mean no new Arcade Classics with Mortal Kombat in it?

And speaking of losing money by the boatloads, Acclaim is even worse off than Midway. Third party woes. Can they all be blamed on Nintendo? Some of Capcom's best profits came from GC games, so I still gotta say a lot of it is due to releasing crap, or trying to release games that are too much like everything else out there. Midway, why did you have to screw up Freaky Flyers?

Check out how much Acclaim lost:
http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6089552.html

[Gamer88]

Man, Thats terrible news. First I heard that EA was considering not making any more games for gamecube after the 10-game contract and now Midway. At least we still have Capcom and Namco.

["The Game"Evolution]

Man, Thats terrible news. First I heard that EA was considering not making any more games for gamecube after the 10-game contract and now Midway. At least we still have Capcom and Namco.

First EA now this.Midway was definately one company I'm sure Nintendo didnt wanted to lose.Losing Acclaim isnt that big a deal.Terrible news indeed.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

hate to see what happens in a bad year, lol.

["The Game"Evolution]

hate to see what happens in a bad year, lol.

Just think GC owners will be missing out on some great Midway titles this year.No GC version of "The Suffering".No more 2nd Midway Arcade Treasures with MK I and II.And no Mortal Kombat:Defiance.It cant get any worse for the Nintendo GC.It has to get better.I dont think it can get any worse.

[Gadfly2317]

hate to see what happens in a bad year, lol.

In a bad year Nintendo would still be turning a profit and outselling the money losing xbox.

Many third party companies are losing money. Period. Whatcha wanna bet they still lose money even if they stop making games for the GC?

I predicted almost a year ago that GC would kick xbox's ass over xmas 2003.

And I feel pretty certain that a lot of third parties are going to eat dirt over the next two years, and it has nothing to do with Nintendo. Too many fingers in the pie. . . little stubby fingers that just can't compete anymore.

Analysists predict record profits for next generation. They may be right, but there's only two scenarios I see. We're on the verge of collapse in gaming, or it will reach new heights with a large number of companies going under and being devoured by larger companies. This will lead to Gaming becoming like Radio has under the domination of Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting.

[T.Tashi]

I saw a poll a while back. These game companies all bit the dust in 2003.


3DO
Black Isle
Data East
Dynamx
Legend
Microprose
Rage
Trecision
Westwood

I'm sure there's more.

[Gamer88]

Just think GC owners will be missing out on some great Midway titles this year.No GC version of "The Suffering".No more 2nd Midway Arcade Treasures with MK I and II.And no Mortal Kombatefiance.It cant get any worse for the Nintendo GC.It has to get better.I dont think it can get any worse.

None of those games really appealed to me in the first place anyway. Gamecube isn't doing that bad as it is Game, I'd say it did better then Xbox last year and who knows mebbe nintendo will somehow make it on top this year..

[no.1gamer]

My theory behind this is that Gamecube owners don't jump at multiplatform games as quickly as Xbox and PS2 owners. When 3rd parties come in and try to compete with Nintendo's first party lineup they often fail. While some of these 3rd party games are quite good they just aren't as good as the latest Nintendo game.

What I'm trying to say is that why would 3rd parties compete with 1st party AAA Nintendo games? Obviously the Nintendo games are going to be hyped up more than a 3rd party game. And obviously the Nintendo games will sell better than the 3rd party games.

Nintendo has tried to make a stellar 1st party lineup for its Gamecube. While it pretty much has any way you look at it, the trade off is that 3rd parties will take the hit.

One thing that some of you Xbots and PS2 owners must realize is that multiplatform 3rd party games aren't all that great on the Gamecube. So in many cases it isn't that big of a loss. Of course some 3rd party games are necessary like EA's sport simulation lineup. But why would I buy a 3rd party game when there's Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, SSBM, Mario Kart, etc..

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

It is kind of bad for GC owners losing another 3rd party publishers. Midway doesn't make the best games, but at least they were giving a variety to the system. Nintendo may still have their first party and Capcom making games for the GC, but they need more, since gamers want more.

[Gamer88]

Rogue Bounty Hunter
It is kind of bad for GC owners losing another 3rd party publishers. Midway doesn't make the best games, but at least they were giving a variety to the system. Nintendo may still have their first party and Capcom making games for the GC, but they need more, since gamers want more.

Its kind of bad? No its just bad. and of course gamers want more, Gamers always want more. Regardless of the system gamers always want more,

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Sad. A good friend of mine has a GC and he was very disappointed that MAT VOL 2 and NARC aren't coming to GC.



I heard in NARC (another game that won't be showing up on GC) there were 5 drugs (4 real life) you can confiscate, sell, or actually consume yourself complete with visual effects and addiction (like the controller vibrating more and more).

[Gadfly2317]

Sad. A good friend of mine has a GC and he was very disappointed that MAT VOL 2 and NARC aren't coming to GC.



I heard in NARC (another game that won't be showing up on GC) there were 5 drugs (4 real life) you can confiscate, sell, or actually consume yourself complete with visual effects and addiction (like the controller vibrating more and more).


Are you being serious about NARC? That's too funny. Well that's it then, the Gamecube will be going under without a drug addiction simulator in its line-up.

["The Game"Evolution]

None of those games really appealed to me in the first place anyway. Gamecube isn't doing that bad as it is Game, I'd say it did better then Xbox last year and who knows mebbe nintendo will somehow make it on top this year..

Thats not fiction,thats a fact.That is what we are talking about.None of those games appealed to you? Good for you.Too bad you dont speak for the other GC owners around North America.Of course the GC sold better than the Xbox last year.Kiss that cheap pricetag for that.But ever since then according to the NPD data the Xbox had started outselling the GC once again right after January of this year.

Its hard to stay ahead of everyone else if you keep losing companies.Yes Nintendo does have great 1st party companies still.But how long before things start to happen with them?

Great example:The GTA series was indeed exclusive to only the PS2.Metal Gear Solid 2 was indeed an exclusive to the PS2.Since then both games have appeared on the Xbox.

Money talks and BS walks 88.Right now Nintendo is balling with the GBA.But the Nintendo GC is in the hotseat.Thats not an exaggeration.Thats a fact.This year indeed will be a kill or be killed year for both the Xbox and the GC.With Acclaim gone,EA gone,and now Midway you cant help but wonder whats next in the GC's future for 2004.

[trebor]

Well, I bet I'm not the only one who has noticed a direct correlation between publishers who are having financial problems and dropping GC support. As in, the only companies I've seen full-out drop GC support have been having their own financial difficulties. I guess it's easier to blame GC owners for not buying their products then it is for them to realize their products are crap. Another Mortal Kombat? Please spare us. :rolleyes:

Here is a thought for Acclaim and Midway - try releasing better quality games and people might actually start buying them. Or just lower the price of your current crappy game selection.

[no.1gamer]

Here is a thought for Acclaim and Midway - try releasing better quality games and people might actually start buying them. Or just lower the price of your current crappy game selection.

That's pretty much it. Gamecube owners seem to be less intrested in 3rd party multiplatform games unless:

they are "better quality games"

and/or

the price is lowered.

[Nissian X]

First there was going to be no online for the GC version of the next Mortal Kombat. Then they cancelled the project entirely. Then Midway announced it was abandoning the Gamecube entirely.

Midway has been losing money out the wazoo. While it can't be entirely blamed on GC, the type of games Midway has been making sell the worst on GC, so game over.

http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1077920469

One thing, Nintendo has not worked at all to develop an online user base, and what would be the point of yet another Mortal Kombat if it weren't to be able to fight online? But for Midway to drop GC entirely is bad. Does this mean no new Arcade Classics with Mortal Kombat in it?

And speaking of losing money by the boatloads, Acclaim is even worse off than Midway. Third party woes. Can they all be blamed on Nintendo? Some of Capcom's best profits came from GC games, so I still gotta say a lot of it is due to releasing crap, or trying to release games that are too much like everything else out there. Midway, why did you have to screw up Freaky Flyers?

Check out how much Acclaim lost:
http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6089552.html

LOL, another one!
Nicely done Nintendo, soon enough you'll the only one developing games for your console!!

In all seriousness, Midway? big deal, they didn't come out with that many games, or at least not this year, all of their games were multiplat, so no big sellers lost.

[Gamer88]

"The Game" Evolution
Thats not fiction,thats a fact.That is what we are talking about.None of those games appealed to you? Good for you.Too bad you dont speak for the other GC owners around North America.Of course the GC sold better than the Xbox last year.Kiss that cheap pricetag for that.But ever since then according to the NPD data the Xbox had started outselling the GC once again right after January of this year.

Yes I know its not fiction, its a fact. I knew you would say that because everything you say you claim to be a "fact" despite all the times your proven wrong. Thank you it is good for me. To bad you don't really speak for the other xbox owners in North America or actually all other gamers in the world like to have a tendency to try and do. It doesn't really matter who is selling more between xbox and gamecube when ps2 has sold more then them combined.

"The Game" Evolution
Its hard to stay ahead of everyone else if you keep losing companies.Yes Nintendo does have great 1st party companies still.But how long before things start to happen with them?

I don't really see them getting ahead of anyone agian really. I think that they should focus on the handheld industry now really. There is hope for there home consoles but if they keep losing 3rd party support I just don't know. They refuse to evolve as we all know which may just be there undoing. One thing is certain, The next generation of consoles is gonna be there true test.If they do fail who are they more likely to make games for after there out of the home console making business? Hmm I think I'll make a new thread on this.

"The Game" Evolution
Great example:The GTA series was indeed exclusive to only the PS2.Metal Gear Solid 2 was indeed an exclusive to the PS2.Since then both games have appeared on the Xbox.

Money talks and BS walks 88.Right now Nintendo is balling with the GBA.But the Nintendo GC is in the hotseat.Thats not an exaggeration.Thats a fact.This year indeed will be a kill or be killed year for both the Xbox and the GC.With Acclaim gone,EA gone,and now Midway you cant help but wonder whats next in the GC's future for 2004.

Actually I would bet that everyone can't help but wonder about ALL the consoles future for 2004+ . Agian with the facts game, That can apply to Xbox as well, They have a lot of work to do and are in a tight spot as well, I must admit though, This year does look like a year that will be mostly dominated by Xbox.

["The Game"Evolution]

"The Game" Evolution


Yes I know its not fiction, its a fact. I knew you would say that because everything you say you claim to be a "fact" despite all the times your proven wrong. Thank you it is good for me. To bad you don't really speak for the other xbox owners in North America or actually all other gamers in the world like to have a tendency to try and do. It doesn't really matter who is selling more between xbox and gamecube when ps2 has sold more then them combined.

"The Game" Evolution


I don't really see them getting ahead of anyone agian really. I think that they should focus on the handheld industry now really. There is hope for there home consoles but if they keep losing 3rd party support I just don't know. They refuse to evolve as we all know which may just be there undoing. One thing is certain, The next generation of consoles is gonna be there true test.If they do fail who are they more likely to make games for after there out of the home console making business? Hmm I think I'll make a new thread on this.

"The Game" Evolution


Actually I would bet that everyone can't help but wonder about ALL the consoles future for 2004+ . Agian with the facts game, That can apply to Xbox as well, They have a lot of work to do and are in a tight spot as well, I must admit though, This year does look like a year that will be mostly dominated by Xbox.

Thats the bottom line.No ifs,ands,or buts about it.

[Allisen1987]

I still got Nintendo to rely on for my games!

[sw33tjimmy]

Well, I bet I'm not the only one who has noticed a direct correlation between publishers who are having financial problems and dropping GC support. As in, the only companies I've seen full-out drop GC support have been having their own financial difficulties. I guess it's easier to blame GC owners for not buying their products then it is for them to realize their products are crap. Another Mortal Kombat? Please spare us. :rolleyes:


sorry to put it this way trebor, but why wouldn't these companies who are all having financial difficulties also be dropping xbox support? They aren't because xbox gamers buy 3rd party titles. Game cube owners obviously don't. Not sure why you're having difficulty seeing this.

I'm a gamecube owner and I don't. I'd rather get multiplatform titles for my Xbox if it's worthwhile and available on it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a sucker for metroid, zelda, and mario cart, but aside from that, I have yet to find a nintendo game that really does anything for me. I guess that mario golf game was okay. Monkey ball bored the hell out of me, Viewtiful Joe was just too spastic for my tastes, and animal xing made me want to vomit. I tried playing that tripe for two hours before I decided I'd rather drink paint than continue. The resident evil series is so tired that I can't play it anymore. Crystal chronicles? Not my cup of tea. I despise the idea of having to own a peripheral device to get the most out of the game, too. That just plain stinks of marketing bullsiht.

And what's next? How much longer do I have to wait to get a new fun game for my cube?

I'll agree with you by saying that midway games don't do anything for me, but this news important despite what you think. 3rd parties are moving away from nintendo; just like they have ever since the beginning of the N64 days.

[trebor]

sorry to put it this way trebor, but why wouldn't these companies who are all having financial difficulties also be dropping xbox support? They aren't because xbox gamers buy 3rd party titles. Game cube owners obviously don't. Not sure why you're having difficulty seeing this.

Good to see you around again, sw33tjimmy!

You're wrong though - I know all too well why 3rd parties drop the Cube. 3rd parties don't sell as well on the Cube as they do on the other consoles - this has been beaten into our heads by both the media and the spaz's on this forum, so you can trust me when I say I GET IT. Doesn't change the fact that the only companies to drop support already have their own financial problems.

But what I'm saying is why I think certain 3rd parties don't sell well on the Cube. Bad games, sloppy ports, delayed ports, etc. - these are all tangible and logical reasons why. Look at a game like Soul Calibur 2 - the GC version was hands-down the best selling out of the three. I believe this was because Namco gave us the love, and we repayed them in kind. Whereas a game like Hitman 2, which was released months and months after the PS2/Xbox versions, had sloppy porting and was generally under-marketed, sold like crap.

This isn't rocket surgery here - Midway hardly supported the Cube in the first place, so it's no surprise that they would drop support.


I'm a gamecube owner and I don't. I'd rather get multiplatform titles for my Xbox if it's worthwhile and available on it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a sucker for metroid, zelda, and mario cart, but aside from that, I have yet to find a nintendo game that really does anything for me. I guess that mario golf game was okay. Monkey ball bored the hell out of me, Viewtiful Joe was just too spastic for my tastes, and animal xing made me want to vomit. I tried playing that tripe for two hours before I decided I'd rather drink paint than continue. The resident evil series is so tired that I can't play it anymore. Crystal chronicles? Not my cup of tea. I despise the idea of having to own a peripheral device to get the most out of the game, too. That just plain stinks of marketing bullsiht.

Well that is all well and good, but all this is completely dependent on YOUR gaming tastes. You like Xbox games more than Cube games, and that's great. Conversely, I prefer Cube games over Xbox games. Not much to say more than that.


And what's next? How much longer do I have to wait to get a new fun game for my cube?

Well, seeing as how it looks like you are a very picky gamer, I would say that you will never have a fun new game for your cube. But perhaps Rogue Leader would be good?


I'll agree with you by saying that midway games don't do anything for me, but this news important despite what you think. 3rd parties are moving away from nintendo; just like they have ever since the beginning of the N64 days.

I don't think that it isn't important - I just think that Midway is a dried up husk of a developer, who hasn't had any new ideas since 1993. And THAT is why they are in financial ruins. Not because Cube owners won't buy Mortal Kombat 25 or Midway Classics - Again Part 5.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

In a bad year Nintendo would still be turning a profit and outselling the money losing xbox.

Many third party companies are losing money. Period. Whatcha wanna bet they still lose money even if they stop making games for the GC?

I predicted almost a year ago that GC would kick xbox's ass over xmas 2003.

And I feel pretty certain that a lot of third parties are going to eat dirt over the next two years, and it has nothing to do with Nintendo. Too many fingers in the pie. . . little stubby fingers that just can't compete anymore.

Analysists predict record profits for next generation. They may be right, but there's only two scenarios I see. We're on the verge of collapse in gaming, or it will reach new heights with a large number of companies going under and being devoured by larger companies. This will lead to Gaming becoming like Radio has under the domination of Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting.

Wow Gadfly, are you on crack. That little temporary price change only had a temporary affect on hardware sold, then XBX resumed whoopin GC butt in Europe and the US. More importantly, the XBOX continues to sell more SOFTWARE, much more than the GC. We just posted a week or so ago, the cumulative total for the top 20 software titles on each console, and guess what? GC was in dead last buddy. But keep on living in the MATRIX man.

We all know GC does well during XMAS, it always does because it makes a good gift for kids, but after the XMAS effect wears off, GC goes back into its predictable pattern of suffering for 3/4ths of the year. Just look at now, XBOX is releasing Ninja Gaiden, Colin 4.0, Tenchu, Mafia, then at the end of the year, Splinter Cell2, TOCA2, that is probably more good to great games than GC will get for the balance of the year. And GC still doesn't have a great racer. I mean PS2 is eventually getting GT4, XBOX already has PGR2, GT Online, Motogp2, soon TOCA2, and Rallisport2, Colin4.0, and all GC has is Mario Kart.....somebody toss Gadfly a lifeline.

[Gadfly2317]

Wow Gadfly, are you on crack. That little temporary price change only had a temporary affect on hardware sold, then XBX resumed whoopin GC butt in Europe and the US. More importantly, the XBOX continues to sell more SOFTWARE, much more than the GC. We just posted a week or so ago, the cumulative total for the top 20 software titles on each console, and guess what? GC was in dead last buddy. But keep on living in the MATRIX man.

We all know GC does well during XMAS, it always does because it makes a good gift for kids, but after the XMAS effect wears off, GC goes back into its predictable pattern of suffering for 3/4ths of the year. Just look at now, XBOX is releasing Ninja Gaiden, Colin 4.0, Tenchu, Mafia, then at the end of the year, Splinter Cell2, TOCA2, that is probably more good to great games than GC will get for the balance of the year. And GC still doesn't have a great racer. I mean PS2 is eventually getting GT4, XBOX already has PGR2, GT Online, Motogp2, soon TOCA2, and Rallisport2, Colin4.0, and all GC has is Mario Kart.....somebody toss Gadfly a lifeline.

You know, a reuters story today said they're still flying off the shelves, they've ramped production up to full, and their shifting units from other areas to NA to make up for the shortage. . . it was reported that half the stores that stock GC are sold out.

Onto other predictions I've made in the past, not to be an arrogant ass (sorry its genetic) but I've also said for a very long time that 2004 would be a great year for xbox, so I agree with your last paragraph. This will be the first year since launch that I'll be buying more games on xbox than on GC (well, I haven't owned an xbox since launch, but that's because there were so few games I would even WANT to buy.)

Oh yeah, and speaking of smoking crack, you said "We just posted a week or so ago, the cumulative total for the top 20 software titles on each console, and guess what? GC was in dead last buddy. But keep on living in the MATRIX man." . Those were NA numbers, and that's a region where xbox has a lead over GC of about a million units. They didn't sell a million more pieces of software than the GC, though, did they? Did they???? NO!!!!!!! Wasn't it like a paltry 200,000 more or something? I may be living in the matrix (and smoking up), but at least I have an effin calculator handy.

And now I'm taking my bloodshot eyes back out to the living room for some more Ninja Gaiden.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Hey they maybe flying off the shelves right now, but the only thing that matters is the totals for the end of the month. As far as the top 20, it was more than 200,000, I think it was closer to half a mil., but I'm not concerned enough to check, but remember, that was only for the top 20. I'm not surprised you are playing XBOX games, its only so long before true gamers can continue to deny themselves. So, there wasn't anything to play before this year, oooooootay. Welcome to the XBOX brotherhood my man, feels good to be playing NG doesn't it?

[Gadfly2317]

Hey they maybe flying off the shelves right now, but the only thing that matters is the totals for the end of the month. As far as the top 20, it was more than 200,000, I think it was closer to half a mil., but I'm not concerned enough to check, but remember, that was only for the top 20. I'm not surprised you are playing XBOX games, its only so long before true gamers can continue to deny themselves. So, there wasn't anything to play before this year, oooooootay. Welcome to the XBOX brotherhood my man, feels good to be playing NG doesn't it?

Yeah, it feels great to play Ninja Gaiden. Except for my thumbs, which are killing me. I'm getting to old for these hardcore action games, even if judging by the xbox forum thread I'm still able to hold my own--apparently a lot of folks had trouble getting through the first stage. I was going to buy "The Suffering" this month, but I know Ninja Gaiden won't drop in price for a long time, and seeing how bad Midway was sucking, and that it was releasing up against Metal Gear Twin Snakes and Ninja Gaiden in the same month, I figure no one will buy The Suffering and it'll drop in price quick. I got burned bad buying Beyond Good and Evil on release date. Not that it wasn't worth full price, but it did make me mad it dropped so quick to $19 after I bought it.

On the xbox thing, there were games before 2004. . . but it wasn't until close to the end of 2003 that there were enough games that appealed to me to make it worthwhile, stuff like Voodoo Vince, PDO, Crimson Skies, Project Gotham II, and a handful of other things. Much of the rest of the "must plays" I played on PC, and figured I'd never need an xbox. But like you said, there's games a gamer wouldn't want to miss--and in 2004 Fable and Halo II alone should hopefully make the system worth anyone's while.

And I'd say the exact same thing about the gamecube that you said about xbox. I don't see any real gamers missing out on Viewtiful Joe, Ikaruga, Zelda, Metroid, and a number of other truly first class games.You'd have to be a chump.

["The Game"Evolution]

Hey they maybe flying off the shelves right now, but the only thing that matters is the totals for the end of the month. As far as the top 20, it was more than 200,000, I think it was closer to half a mil., but I'm not concerned enough to check, but remember, that was only for the top 20. I'm not surprised you are playing XBOX games, its only so long before true gamers can continue to deny themselves. So, there wasn't anything to play before this year, oooooootay. Welcome to the XBOX brotherhood my man, feels good to be playing NG doesn't it?

Even one as foolish as Gadfly has finally seen the green light.

[sw33tjimmy]

Well, seeing as how it looks like you are a very picky gamer, I would say that you will never have a fun new game for your cube. But perhaps Rogue Leader would be good?


Isn't it a good thing to be a picky gamer? You sound pretty picky to me, too. I don't want to come off sounding snobby, but on the flip side, I don't want to play garbage. I know what I like and most GCN games do not fit into that catagory. Unlike most people, though, at least I can say I gave them a shot.

Rogue Leader did absolutly nothing for me. The controls blow and I couldn't see tie fighters unless my targeting sensor was on and then it would mark me off for being inaccurate with it. I know a lot of people dig RL, but I'm not one of them. Trust me, I wish I did.

...oh i just remembered, I did play Return of the King on GC and enjoyed it thoroughly. I didn't get it on the xbox because they were all sold out; though xbox would have been my first preference due to dolby 5.1 and I prefer the controller-S to the GC pad.

Shoddy ports are nothing that the xbox is a stranger to. Just look at any EA title on xbox. No multiplayer online support and horrid graphics. The need for speed series are probably the most evident 'shoddy ports' on the box. There's no excuse for a game that runs fine on a PS2 to stutter on the xbox. It's the PS2 that is the lowest common denominator, here, and it's the one that developers give the vast majority of their attention to.


btw, it's good to be back. I'll try to stick around ;)

[GameLegend]

Thats right, blame Nintendo for making excellent 1st party games. I agree with the majority of the people though, many GC owners would rather buy Nintendo games than many other 3rd party games.
Isnt EA in first place for currently being the most profitable game developer or something and Nintendo is 2nd?
Well, if my memory is correct then..

while EA sells its games on 3 consoles and 1 handheld (i m not sure if they do for the Nokia though but GBA yeah), Nintendo only sells its games on GBA and GC. Think of how many games Nintendo must of sold on the GC and GBA to get to that status? Tonz so its no surprise that GC owners (OVERALL) perfer Nintendo's first party games over thrid party.

[trebor]

Isn't it a good thing to be a picky gamer? You sound pretty picky to me, too. I don't want to come off sounding snobby, but on the flip side, I don't want to play garbage. I know what I like and most GCN games do not fit into that catagory. Unlike most people, though, at least I can say I gave them a shot.

I am a picky gamer - very picky. And I do think that is a good thing. Although I'm curious as to what kinds of games you like.


Rogue Leader did absolutly nothing for me. The controls blow and I couldn't see tie fighters unless my targeting sensor was on and then it would mark me off for being inaccurate with it. I know a lot of people dig RL, but I'm not one of them. Trust me, I wish I did.

That's too bad - Rogue Leader is one of my favorite games. It is pretty tough, though.


...oh i just remembered, I did play Return of the King on GC and enjoyed it thoroughly. I didn't get it on the xbox because they were all sold out; though xbox would have been my first preference due to dolby 5.1 and I prefer the controller-S to the GC pad.

Haven't played it.


Shoddy ports are nothing that the xbox is a stranger to. Just look at any EA title on xbox. No multiplayer online support and horrid graphics. The need for speed series are probably the most evident 'shoddy ports' on the box. There's no excuse for a game that runs fine on a PS2 to stutter on the xbox. It's the PS2 that is the lowest common denominator, here, and it's the one that developers give the vast majority of their attention to.

EA is pretty much trash as it is - they are like the Micro$oft of the game publishing world.


btw, it's good to be back. I'll try to stick around ;)

That be good.

[trebor]

Rumor: Microsoft To Buy Midway?
By Mike Viscel -- Staff Writer
Published 11:35 AM CDT, March 4, 2004

A press release this morning indicates that Bill Gates is interested in Midway.

It's no secret that Midway Games has been struggling. The company has reported 12 consecutive quarterly losses and has suffered a 75% drop in its stock. Fortunately for Midway, Viacom chairman, Sumner Redstone, likes Midway and has recently spent $16.5 million on 4.8 million shares. Interestingly enough, it looks like the world's most famous CEO, Bill Gates, is thinking of buying shares as well.

Investors watching the situation closely speculate that Midway is a prime candidate for a takeover. The company makes good games and is owner to some of the world's most famous franchises, such as Mortal Kombat and the Blitz sports series. Microsoft needs more games as they struggle to catch up to Sony who controls 67% of the video game market in the US.

Analysts believe that if Bill Gates enters into the fray it will spark a bidding war between the Viacom Chairman, Mr. Redstone, and Gates. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will be able to acquire another rather large publishing house.
»*Mike Viscel*

Well if this happens, you can be sure as poop that Midway won't be developing titles for Sony anymore either.

Sony losing Midway games would mean their DOOM. Doom I tells ya'.

[no.1gamer]

Well if this happens, you can be sure as poop that Midway won't be developing titles for Sony anymore either.

Sony losing Midway games would mean their DOOM. Doom I tells ya'.

Hopefully Microsoft doesn't drive Midway into a hole in the ground like they did to Rare.

[sw33tjimmy]

WHA-WHA-WHAT!!?

MS ruined Rare? Probably a lot more accurate if you flip those two names around. I seem to recall MS paying millions of dollars for that company that has in turn turned out one lousy game, while others in development don't even have a speculated release yet.

Besides, when all that happened, I remember the Nintendo buffs all harping that Rare was worthless anyways. I seem to recall people saying things like "Rare hasn't done anything special since perfect dark" and "Rare sucks" (paraphrased, of course).

Trebor, since you asked, here's some games I like:

Ninja Gaiden - got it today and have only played it for a half-hour, but so far I like it. Mindless? Kinda. No more mindless than a good violent Manga film. Doesn't make it bad necessarily. The fast action of NG is no different than the fast action of Viewtiful Joe. Reflexes and coordination are both required to be successful in either game. All I'm saying is if someone cuts down NG and then boasts on VJ, they are being stupid, in my mind.

Rainbow Six 3 - best cooperative game I've played to this day. mainly because you always have someone to play with as long as you're on LIVE.

Mario Cart DD - It's mario cart. Not much new and a little short, but it's fun none the less.

Metroid Prime - This game does kick ass. The controls take some getting used to, but probably the best cross between adventure and FPS to this day.

Zelda WW - Great story/music/visuals/controls. For all the people out there that piss and moan about 'turd sandwitches' and such, this game totally fits that very profile. Take away the graphical flare and you've got Ocarnia of Time/majora's mask; something everyone has already done. I never complained about turd sandwitches, though, so I can profess that I like WW.

Halo (yes, I still play it from time to time) - Nothing to say that hasn't already been said about halo.

Project Gotham 2 - unmatched physics and graphics in a racer. soundtrack has hundreds of killer tracks. best soundtrack ever, imo.

NFS: Underground - despite framerate problems, this game is still fun cuz i love customizing cars and personalizing them. NFS:U gives me that in spades.

Prince of Persia - the new platformer by which all future platformers will be judged.

Freedom Force - an oldie but a goodie. nothing cooler than making your own superhero and throwing cars at badguys while leveling entire buildings with laserbeams flying out of your mind.

Soul Caliber - I'm not much into fighters, but SC is good when you have a friend over. i don't particularly care for playing fighters by myself, though.

Splinter Cell - raised the stealth-action bar as far as i'm concerned. cool camera and visuals helped immensely. i think SC was the first 3rd party game to really flex the xbox's muscles.

************
that's a pretty concise list of games I've enjoyed over the last few years. I haven't been able to finish Metroid or WW because I was only able to borrow them from a friend for a short time. Since then I've not had enough $$ to get them for myself, but I plan to... after I'm finished with gaiden.

[trebor]

WHA-WHA-WHAT!!?

MS ruined Rare? Probably a lot more accurate if you flip those two names around. I seem to recall MS paying millions of dollars for that company that has in turn turned out one lousy game, while others in development don't even have a speculated release yet.

Besides, when all that happened, I remember the Nintendo buffs all harping that Rare was worthless anyways. I seem to recall people saying things like "Rare hasn't done anything special since perfect dark" and "Rare sucks" (paraphrased, of course).

Trebor, since you asked, here's some games I like:

Ninja Gaiden - got it today and have only played it for a half-hour, but so far I like it. Mindless? Kinda. No more mindless than a good violent Manga film. Doesn't make it bad necessarily. The fast action of NG is no different than the fast action of Viewtiful Joe. Reflexes and coordination are both required to be successful in either game. All I'm saying is if someone cuts down NG and then boasts on VJ, they are being stupid, in my mind.

Rainbow Six 3 - best cooperative game I've played to this day. mainly because you always have someone to play with as long as you're on LIVE.

Mario Cart DD - It's mario cart. Not much new and a little short, but it's fun none the less.

Metroid Prime - This game does kick ass. The controls take some getting used to, but probably the best cross between adventure and FPS to this day.

Zelda WW - Great story/music/visuals/controls. For all the people out there that piss and moan about 'turd sandwitches' and such, this game totally fits that very profile. Take away the graphical flare and you've got Ocarnia of Time/majora's mask; something everyone has already done. I never complained about turd sandwitches, though, so I can profess that I like WW.

Halo (yes, I still play it from time to time) - Nothing to say that hasn't already been said about halo.

Project Gotham 2 - unmatched physics and graphics in a racer. soundtrack has hundreds of killer tracks. best soundtrack ever, imo.

NFS: Underground - despite framerate problems, this game is still fun cuz i love customizing cars and personalizing them. NFS:U gives me that in spades.

Prince of Persia - the new platformer by which all future platformers will be judged.

Freedom Force - an oldie but a goodie. nothing cooler than making your own superhero and throwing cars at badguys while leveling entire buildings with laserbeams flying out of your mind.

Soul Caliber - I'm not much into fighters, but SC is good when you have a friend over. i don't particularly care for playing fighters by myself, though.

Splinter Cell - raised the stealth-action bar as far as i'm concerned. cool camera and visuals helped immensely. i think SC was the first 3rd party game to really flex the xbox's muscles.

************
that's a pretty concise list of games I've enjoyed over the last few years. I haven't been able to finish Metroid or WW because I was only able to borrow them from a friend for a short time. Since then I've not had enough $$ to get them for myself, but I plan to... after I'm finished with gaiden.

That's a pretty decent list of games you got there. I think you might enjoy Metal Arms: Glitch in the System. It's a mindless shooter, yes, but it has a lot of "heart" and it is quite funny.

Also, you mentioned comparing VJ and NG - I think they are two totally different takes on the same kind of genre. VJ is more stylish and unique in my opinion.

[sw33tjimmy]

tre-to-the-bor
i did see a demo of Glitch in action and it looked promising. I was almost convinced to buy it just from watching for 5 minutes. Haven't gotten it yet, though.

Have you played Ninja Gaiden, yet? I was under the assumption that you hadn't.

Here's my reasoning for comparing the two:
Both games are very 'arcadey'. The action is fast and constant. In both games, there is a wide variety of ways to dispatch villains as they approach. In both games, there are bosses to defeat and you also get to look forward to 'upgrades'. VJ has more powers while NG has more weapons/magic. Both games have 'puzzles' that must be solved before you can progress to certain rooms/levels. Both games give you control of one specific hero and take you through a very linear journey to the end of the game. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Really, the two primary differences between these games would have to be the 3d vs. 2d perspective and the graphical approach. Viewtiful Joe is stylish, I understand that, but I find NG to be just as stylish. Just a very different sort of style. Unique; artistically yeah I'd give that to VJ... but if you strip away both the perspective and the artistic sensabilities, you basically have 2 games where you control a hero that fights hordes of vastly inferior underlings while jumping to and fro.

I'm not saying these two games are identical twins; if they were I'd probably like VJ more than I did. All I'm saying is that NG shouldn't receive any of this crap about being 'mindless' when the crapflingers turn around and start playing VJ. I've played VJ and it's just as 'mindless'.

...oh, and you didn't say anything about my WW comment... :)

[trebor]

tre-to-the-bor
i did see a demo of Glitch in action and it looked promising. I was almost convinced to buy it just from watching for 5 minutes. Haven't gotten it yet, though.

Go for it! Metal Arms is my current favorite game - it has a lot of style and humor to make up for some other average qualities.


Have you played Ninja Gaiden, yet? I was under the assumption that you hadn't.

Here's my reasoning for comparing the two:
Both games are very 'arcadey'. The action is fast and constant. In both games, there is a wide variety of ways to dispatch villains as they approach. In both games, there are bosses to defeat and you also get to look forward to 'upgrades'. VJ has more powers while NG has more weapons/magic. Both games have 'puzzles' that must be solved before you can progress to certain rooms/levels. Both games give you control of one specific hero and take you through a very linear journey to the end of the game. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Really, the two primary differences between these games would have to be the 3d vs. 2d perspective and the graphical approach. Viewtiful Joe is stylish, I understand that, but I find NG to be just as stylish. Just a very different sort of style. Unique; artistically yeah I'd give that to VJ... but if you strip away both the perspective and the artistic sensabilities, you basically have 2 games where you control a hero that fights hordes of vastly inferior underlings while jumping to and fro.

I'm not saying these two games are identical twins; if they were I'd probably like VJ more than I did. All I'm saying is that NG shouldn't receive any of this crap about being 'mindless' when the crapflingers turn around and start playing VJ. I've played VJ and it's just as 'mindless'.

Actually, to be perfectly honest with you, neither NG or VJ float my boat. While I appreciate the lengths to which Capcom went to make VJ a very original and stylistic game, it also is rather seizure-inducing in that Capcom "every second you play this we will freak you out with crazy crap happening all over the screen at once" kind of way.


...oh, and you didn't say anything about my WW comment... :)

LOL! Well, I missed it before. But hey, I'm not going to tell you that your opinion is wrong - even though I totally disagree with it.

For one thing, WW is the sequel to OoT - they should resemble each other. LoZ also pretty much defined the whole adventure genre, so how can it be derivative of itself? Ninja Gaiden, on the other hand, resembles most games in the genre it fits in - a genre it did NOT create.

[Gadfly2317]

Well if this happens, you can be sure as poop that Midway won't be developing titles for Sony anymore either.

Sony losing Midway games would mean their DOOM. Doom I tells ya'.


I can see it now. . ."Sony loses third party support". . .

Thanks for the laugh. DOOM? I thought they made Mortal Kombat and Freaky Flyers.

[sw33tjimmy]

For one thing, WW is the sequel to OoT - they should resemble each other. LoZ also pretty much defined the whole adventure genre, so how can it be derivative of itself? Ninja Gaiden, on the other hand, resembles most games in the genre it fits in - a genre it did NOT create.

You're kinda saying that nintendo can do no wrong. Nintendo basically created the platforming and side scrolling genres, in addition to fantasy/adventure. Does that mean that it's okay for them to create the same game over and over again with a slightly different story line and a new paintjob? That's all double dash is and that's all I see WW as, too. Metroid Prime, however, was genius. They went out on a limb and it paid off.

["The Game"Evolution]

That's a pretty decent list of games you got there. I think you might enjoy Metal Arms: Glitch in the System. It's a mindless shooter, yes, but it has a lot of "heart" and it is quite funny.

Also, you mentioned comparing VJ and NG - I think they are two totally different takes on the same kind of genre. VJ is more stylish and unique in my opinion.

To say that VJ is more stylish and unique than NG is is indeed a biased opinion.Since all you own is a GC how can you make that kind of a statement? If Gadfly or AOE Enforcer said that then there isnt much I can say because they own both consoles.You dont!

Before you continue to assume you know what Ninja Gaiden is about play through it first.Thats if you can even get very far.LOL!

[trebor]

I can see it now. . ."Sony loses third party support". . .

Thanks for the laugh. DOOM? I thought they made Mortal Kombat and Freaky Flyers.

Doom as in "imminent demise". Not Doom as in "Doom 3" or anything - Midway isn't even close to having any highly anticipated titles like that.

[trebor]

You're kinda saying that nintendo can do no wrong. Nintendo basically created the platforming and side scrolling genres, in addition to fantasy/adventure. Does that mean that it's okay for them to create the same game over and over again with a slightly different story line and a new paintjob? That's all double dash is and that's all I see WW as, too. Metroid Prime, however, was genius. They went out on a limb and it paid off.

I'm not saying Nintendo can do no wrong whatsoever. There are plenty of Nintendo games I won't even bother checking out like Luigi's Mansion and Star Fox Adventures. I just wonder why people harp on Nintendo for releasing "rehashes" but say absolutely nothing about Final Fantasy 10, 11, 12, and 10-2. Gimme a break - the FF series is the most rehashed franchise there is, yet gamers still lap it up - the inherent gameply in FF has been the same for over a decade.

All I'm saying is that sequels should resemble the games they are sequeling. Claiming that Double Dash is the same thing as MK64 "with a new paintjob" is simply not true. People who haven't played DD write off the team racing as "gimmicky", yet anyone who has played it knows that having two team members fundamentally changes the strategy that you play with.

Let me ask you this though, will you apply the same reasoning to Halo 2 when that comes out? It will have the same Master Chief, the same control scheme and pretty much the same mechanics, but with new maps. Can you imagine the uproar there would be if they changed what works with Halo just to make Halo 2 seem "fresh"?

[sw33tjimmy]

I have no doubt that I will enjoy halo2. But that follows my whole 'I never claimed to dislike turd-sandwitches' statement. If they changed it, yeah people would be upset. I would be one of the upset people if the change made the game inferior to the first Halo. But that brings me back to metroid prime. they changed the formula there and it worked very well.

I've played (and beat) both Mario cart on the 64 and on the GC and to me there is very little difference outside of the 2-man cart team. Doesn't mean I don't think DD is a bad game, I just feel it's the same exact thing as before. But honestly... how do you do a carting game any different? Maybe if they made it to where you could upgrade your cart along the way or build your own tracks or something...? dunno.

I guess my whole argument here is some people hand out the term 'rehash' quite selectively. I hope I'm not one of them. Ninja gaiden is a good game, regardless. Today, I actually chuckled aloud when I completed my first 'Izuna Drop' (or however it's spelled). I slashed a ninja up into the air, jumped and grabbed him, then piledrove him to the ground in a fiery explosion which also killed everyone around us. (if you ever played hanzo on Samuri Showdown, it looks very similar to his piledriver move) All I can say is give it a chance before you pass judgement.

[trebor]

I have no doubt that I will enjoy halo2. But that follows my whole 'I never claimed to dislike turd-sandwitches' statement. If they changed it, yeah people would be upset. I would be one of the upset people if the change made the game inferior to the first Halo. But that brings me back to metroid prime. they changed the formula there and it worked very well.

I've played (and beat) both Mario cart on the 64 and on the GC and to me there is very little difference outside of the 2-man cart team. Doesn't mean I don't think DD is a bad game, I just feel it's the same exact thing as before. But honestly... how do you do a carting game any different? Maybe if they made it to where you could upgrade your cart along the way or build your own tracks or something...? dunno.

I guess my whole argument here is some people hand out the term 'rehash' quite selectively. I hope I'm not one of them. Ninja gaiden is a good game, regardless. Today, I actually chuckled aloud when I completed my first 'Izuna Drop' (or however it's spelled). I slashed a ninja up into the air, jumped and grabbed him, then piledrove him to the ground in a fiery explosion which also killed everyone around us. (if you ever played hanzo on Samuri Showdown, it looks very similar to his piledriver move) All I can say is give it a chance before you pass judgement.

Well, to be fair, I never said that Ninja Gaiden isn't good at what it does. Unfortunately, what it does is rather repetitive and formulaic - which isn't necessarily bad, just not my cup of tea. Everyone else can enjoy what they feel like enjoying.

As far as MKDD is concerned, there are so many major and subtle differences from MK64 that I really don't think it is a rehash at all. It's the first MK that allows you to choose your kart for one thing - that makes up for the lack of a upgrades feature. One subtle difference, that I think is awesome, is that the goodies can be stolen from you and/or dropped onto the track when you are blown up. This means that every single race will have random obstacles in the course, which means every race is different.

But here is where contradictory opinions come into play - MK is a racing game. There are several fundamental gameplay differences between MK64 and MKDD that people either ignore, or pretend to ignore. But if you consider other racing games and their sequels, like PGR for instance, the difference between PGR1 and PGR2 is a few new racing locales, some new cars and perhaps slightly tweaked graphics - and otherwise they are nearly identical.

It's only the hypocrits who bash Nintendo for "rehashes" and then turn around and proclaim their love for FF12 or PGR2 or MoH:RS or etc. See my point here? I'm not saying you are one of the hypocrits, but just the hypocrits in general.

[GameLegend]

To say that VJ is more stylish and unique than NG is is indeed a biased opinion.Since all you own is a GC how can you make that kind of a statement? If Gadfly or AOE Enforcer said that then there isnt much I can say because they own both consoles.You dont!

Before you continue to assume you know what Ninja Gaiden is about play through it first.Thats if you can even get very far.LOL!

U know what Game, I m going to smack the table here (THUD!) and say, i actually, conclusively, decidedly, decisively, definitely, positively, truly, unquestionablytrulely AGREE with u.

*GameLegend walks downstairs and shoots himself.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Well, to be fair, I never said that Ninja Gaiden isn't good at what it does. Unfortunately, what it does is rather repetitive and formulaic - which isn't necessarily bad, just not my cup of tea. Everyone else can enjoy what they feel like enjoying.

As far as MKDD is concerned, there are so many major and subtle differences from MK64 that I really don't think it is a rehash at all. It's the first MK that allows you to choose your kart for one thing - that makes up for the lack of a upgrades feature. One subtle difference, that I think is awesome, is that the goodies can be stolen from you and/or dropped onto the track when you are blown up. This means that every single race will have random obstacles in the course, which means every race is different.

But here is where contradictory opinions come into play - MK is a racing game. There are several fundamental gameplay differences between MK64 and MKDD that people either ignore, or pretend to ignore. But if you consider other racing games and their sequels, like PGR for instance, the difference between PGR1 and PGR2 is a few new racing locales, some new cars and perhaps slightly tweaked graphics - and otherwise they are nearly identical.

It's only the hypocrits who bash Nintendo for "rehashes" and then turn around and proclaim their love for FF12 or PGR2 or MoH:RS or etc. See my point here? I'm not saying you are one of the hypocrits, but just the hypocrits in general.

<b>Unfortunately, what it does is rather repetitive and formulaic - which isn't necessarily bad, just not my cup of tea. Everyone else can enjoy what they feel like enjoying.</b>
I didn't want to buy Ninja Gaiden, because I typically don't like these Japanese action games, with puzzles and boss battles. Usually because of exactly what you said, repetitive and formulaic. But I bought the game, cause I had a return that I had to use before it expired, and because I felt the production values would be high, so why not. I was completely wrong, this game is anything but repetitive and formulaic. Nothing at all is repetitive, the combat, the levels, the enemies, how one engages enemies, the weapons. This game is almost like an action RPG, because you can basically build Ryu up and use various attributes or ignore them. I'm not going to try and change your mind, you've obviously made it up already. But this is clearly the direction, I want to see this genre go. Hopefully, Japanese developers will be inspired by this example. This is the first NG game on XBOX, and there have been how many Onimushas on PS2, 2 DMC, and they don't even come close to stacking up against this game. A shame!

As far as MKDD, if this is what you call innovation, being able to now choose your own cart, and drop/steal goodies, I'm not going to say that's not innovation. But to compare that to PGR2, where the innovation is so much more meaningful, to be able to race online against real opponents in fullscreen, doesn't make sense. That is the reason why people bought PGR2, will buy Rallisport2, and Halo2. But Halo2 goes even further than just adding online play, you will be able to use two weapons in each hand, they are introducing even more vehicles, you can play as the enemy soldiers, plus much much more. For examples, little things like Chiefs eyes will track what you are aiming at, little details to big details.

Your point would make sense if PGR2 was just slightly updated cars, and more tracks, ditto for Rallisport2. For example, Colin4.0 is the kind of sequel you are talking about, not much value there. But Rallisport2 which was already better, will have online play, a value added feature, on top of the other cosmetic upgrades it will have.

Now, my hope is that PGR2 will be the last game in the series. It went online, you really can't take it further. Now let them create a different racing game, maybe a Microsoft F1 or Indy game. Same thing with Bungie, hopefully Halo2 will be the end of the series. Let Bungie use their creativity to make a different game for XBOX2, and maybe comeback with Halo3, two years into the life of XBOX2. When you look at all the sequels on PS2, all the ArmoredCores, Onimushas, SilentHills, DynastyWarriors, I don't think there is much value there. But when you look at the XBOX sequels, cosmetic upgrades with the addition of online play is indeed value. I can't comment on the GC, only to say, that if one considers what they are doing innovative or value-added, then you can't sneeze at the XBOX. And like someone above said, Ninja Gaiden, is different, it genre busting. It does what Onimusha, Shinobi, Tenchu, and DMC didn't do, re-invented the genre from level design, to CG, to combat, to graphics, everything.

["The Game"Evolution]

That's pretty much it. Gamecube owners seem to be less intrested in 3rd party multiplatform games unless:

they are "better quality games"

and/or

the price is lowered.

You said it I didnt.