The first NG review is from Gamespy

[The Prince of Darkness]

I only copied the last paragraph because I thought that it was perfect for this forum.

"Ninja Gaiden is simply the most polished and responsive action game we have seen so far this generation, and it's my belief it will likely remain so till the end. It fulfills the half-forgotten promise of the Xbox: to provide a gaming experience you can't get anywhere else. Sure, there are some games that you can point at and say, "That wouldn't be easy to do on PS2," but Ninja Gaiden is something the PS2 never even dreamt of. It would be coughing up blood trying to run a game with graphics this good, that moves this fast, at a constant 60 frames per second. And the gameplay backs that promise up, too; rarely have I felt so deeply engaged by an action game, no matter how much I'd been enjoying it. Castlevania had atmosphere, Rygar had level design, and Devil May Cry had cool. Only Ninja Gaiden has the whole package."

Well...there you have it. The reviewer did say several times that the game is sick difficult though.

[The Prince of Darkness]

I only copied the last paragraph because I thought that it was perfect for this forum.

"Ninja Gaiden is simply the most polished and responsive action game we have seen so far this generation, and it's my belief it will likely remain so till the end. It fulfills the half-forgotten promise of the Xbox: to provide a gaming experience you can't get anywhere else. Sure, there are some games that you can point at and say, "That wouldn't be easy to do on PS2," but Ninja Gaiden is something the PS2 never even dreamt of. It would be coughing up blood trying to run a game with graphics this good, that moves this fast, at a constant 60 frames per second. And the gameplay backs that promise up, too; rarely have I felt so deeply engaged by an action game, no matter how much I'd been enjoying it. Castlevania had atmosphere, Rygar had level design, and Devil May Cry had cool. Only Ninja Gaiden has the whole package."

Well...there you have it. The reviewer did say several times that the game is sick difficult though.

Gamespot and IGN are both in too. 9.4's on both. It looks like we have our first GOTY candidate.

["The Game"Evolution]

Gamespot and IGN are both in too. 9.4's on both. It looks like we have our first GOTY candidate.

So far so good.When you read reviews like these P.O.D.it makes you appriciate the developers taking their time releasing the game.I guess all those haters that constantly made fun of Ninja Gaiden's delays time and time again is enjoying that Crow doused with Icy Hot they got to eat.LOL! Good post P.O.D. Man! I cant wait to go pick up my copy of Ninja Gaiden on Tuesday.Thats going to be an off day for me.

As far as my comments on the review? Nice looking game,plenty of weapons to use at your disposal,plenty of replay value,plenty of games to unlock,great action at 60 fps,and its a little difficult? Sounds like the total package to me.No doubt we have out first GOTY candidate.2004 could very well be Xbox dominated in the majority of every genre.This is the first of many to come.

[The Prince of Darkness]

So far so good.When you read reviews like these P.O.D.it makes you appriciate the developers taking their time releasing the game.I guess all those haters that constantly made fun of Ninja Gaiden's delays time and time again is enjoying that Crow doused with Icy Hot they got to eat.LOL! Good post P.O.D. Man! I cant wait to go pick up my copy of Ninja Gaiden on Tuesday.Thats going to be an off day for me.

As far as my comments on the review? Nice looking game,plenty of weapons to use at your disposal,plenty of replay value,plenty of games to unlock,great action at 60 fps,and its a little difficult? Sounds like the total package to me.No doubt we have out first GOTY candidate.2004 could very well be Xbox dominated in the majority of every genre.This is the first of many to come.

Not to even mention that it is 20 hours long. Of course, it will take me a lot longer than that probably.

[Xboxster]

Wow~!~~~GOTY alreedy!!! This is why XXXBOX rulz. the revieer even says that PS2 cat do reel blood like Xbox. All other lays down for Ninja Gaaden.

[The Prince of Darkness]

I only copied the last paragraph because I thought that it was perfect for this forum.

"Ninja Gaiden is simply the most polished and responsive action game we have seen so far this generation, and it's my belief it will likely remain so till the end. It fulfills the half-forgotten promise of the Xbox: to provide a gaming experience you can't get anywhere else. Sure, there are some games that you can point at and say, "That wouldn't be easy to do on PS2," but Ninja Gaiden is something the PS2 never even dreamt of. It would be coughing up blood trying to run a game with graphics this good, that moves this fast, at a constant 60 frames per second. And the gameplay backs that promise up, too; rarely have I felt so deeply engaged by an action game, no matter how much I'd been enjoying it. Castlevania had atmosphere, Rygar had level design, and Devil May Cry had cool. Only Ninja Gaiden has the whole package."

Well...there you have it. The reviewer did say several times that the game is sick difficult though.

I have made an observation. It seems like Xboxster only comes out anymore when Xbox gets a top notch exclusive. Hmmm...he used to post all the time. I wonder what the deal is? Is someone jealous?

[trebor]

I only copied the last paragraph because I thought that it was perfect for this forum.

"Ninja Gaiden is simply the most polished and responsive action game we have seen so far this generation, and it's my belief it will likely remain so till the end. It fulfills the half-forgotten promise of the Xbox: to provide a gaming experience you can't get anywhere else. Sure, there are some games that you can point at and say, "That wouldn't be easy to do on PS2," but Ninja Gaiden is something the PS2 never even dreamt of. It would be coughing up blood trying to run a game with graphics this good, that moves this fast, at a constant 60 frames per second. And the gameplay backs that promise up, too; rarely have I felt so deeply engaged by an action game, no matter how much I'd been enjoying it. Castlevania had atmosphere, Rygar had level design, and Devil May Cry had cool. Only Ninja Gaiden has the whole package."

Well...there you have it. The reviewer did say several times that the game is sick difficult though.

I find it interesting that you not only post this in the Sytem Wars forum, but that the reviewer agrees with what I have been saying all along about the Xbox - the game library is severely lacking in quality exclusive games to the point that it has no identity other than the console that gets PC ports.

I'm glad Ninja Gaiden is being well received, because while I think it looks totally lame and formulaic, you Xboyz are in desperate need of some decent exclusive titles.

Enjoy.

[The Prince of Darkness]

I find it interesting that you not only post this in the Sytem Wars forum, but that the reviewer agrees with what I have been saying all along about the Xbox - the game library is severely lacking in quality exclusive games to the point that it has no identity other than the console that gets PC ports.

I'm glad Ninja Gaiden is being well received, because while I think it looks totally lame and formulaic, you Xboyz are in desperate need of some decent exclusive titles.

Enjoy.

I am not going to break out another list of quality exclusives, but I will say this much. The Xbox was in need of another great action title to go along with Splinter Cell, and I personally could care less if it is formulaic. We have been through the old genre discussion so many times that the discussion seems "formulaic" ;) Anyway, it has become very difficult to make games that are not standard fare because it seems like everything has been done before. In fact, I remember reading another one of your posts about NG. In it you stated that the game should be more ninja like in its gameplay, but that just sounds like a stealth game to me. Those are starting to become commonplace as well. I will give you this much, though. Nintendo is the best in the business at giving us games that are typical genres "with a twist" so it seems like they cannot be classified very easily.(hopefully you understand what I mean by that). Unfortunately for Nintendo they have too many holes with respect to the regular genres to be considered a well rounded console. Trebor---when you break it down you are in the same boat as the Xboyz except that we are lacking in different things.

[Bob-the-Fish]

I looked at a couple of reviews and the only thing that has me worried is the constant mention of camera issues. As long as those aren't "cheap death" camera problems, NG will be an amazing game, even if it is just 3-D hack n' slash.

[Deathstroke]

I don't know what the big deal is about the game being 20 hours long. The second time through will probably be much easier as is the case in games like these. BTW, it took me 17 hours the first time on Viewtiful Joe and I'm not even done with the game yet. I still have to unlock Alastor and Captain Blue. Furthermore, I've logged countless more hours into Devil May Cry.

[Xboxster]

Here we go again. I got street cred when it comes to Xbox dawg. Don't chalege me son.

[Xboxster]

20 hours long is reelly good. only one other game has done that...Halo. Too many comanies like to keep costs down by games shorter.

NG will pabe way for a new generashun.

[Bob-the-Fish]

20 hours long is reelly good. only one other game has done that...Halo. Too many comanies like to keep costs down by games shorter.

NG will pabe way for a new generashun.

Halo!?! That was just two levels they repeated over and over again. It wasn't 20 hours long.

[AOE Enforcer]

I find it interesting that you not only post this in the Sytem Wars forum, but that the reviewer agrees with what I have been saying all along about the Xbox - the game library is severely lacking in quality exclusive games to the point that it has no identity other than the console that gets PC ports.

I'm glad Ninja Gaiden is being well received, because while I think it looks totally lame and formulaic, you Xboyz are in desperate need of some decent exclusive titles.

Enjoy.

You of all people being a Gamecube-exclusive gamer should know better than to judge something by a first impression like graphic presentation. One look at Animal Crossing would make any person think the game was not only a 64-bit or worse, 32-bit game-but that it was stupid as hell. But getting into the game, it is one of the most addictive, promising gaming experiences I have had in quite some time.

But really, what is "totally lame" about Ninja Gaiden? The backgrounds & character models are CG quality through & through. There is no denying that this is the best looking game I have ever laid my eyes upon, console or otherwise. What is "formulatic" about the game? Have you played it? Have you read detailed impressions of it?

I believe you are an older gamer as I myself am. And I believe that you are royally pissed that a former Nintendo-exlusive series has come to the Xbox and includes all of the original Ninja Gaiden games.

I have been harping on the Xbox more lately than ever before. I've sold bunches of games that I no longer care for and I've stopped buying the official magazine and will not be renewing my subscription to XBN. But I give credit where credit is due: Ninja Gaiden is tied with Castlevania as my #1 favorite gaming series of all time. This new game looks and from everything I have read from every possible source-plays even better than any other game out there. I bought my Xbox for this game alone. Wednesday, I will finally have a game in my hands that can single-handedly justify the existence of Xbox.

Ninja Gaiden, nothing will compare.

[folken001]

I find it interesting that you not only post this in the Sytem Wars forum, but that the reviewer agrees with what I have been saying all along about the Xbox - the game library is severely lacking in quality exclusive games to the point that it has no identity other than the console that gets PC ports.

I'm glad Ninja Gaiden is being well received, because while I think it looks totally lame and formulaic, you Xboyz are in desperate need of some decent exclusive titles.

Enjoy.
Dont' worry Trebor. You are not alone on this. :) I kinda agree with you. I saw this one music video of Ninja Gaiden. It basically just shows real time footage of a good 4 mins of gameplay. I repeatedly saw the same 2 comboes over and over again. Trust me, if the game is like what I saw in the vid, the game is going to be like a blonde, pretty, but shallow. You know, kinda like DOA3.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Dont' worry Trebor. You are not alone on this. :) I kinda agree with you. I saw this one music video of Ninja Gaiden. It basically just shows real time footage of a good 4 mins of gameplay. I repeatedly saw the same 2 comboes over and over again. Trust me, if the game is like what I saw in the vid, the game is going to be like a blonde, pretty, but shallow. You know, kinda like DOA3.

Read the reviews, and read the posts from people that have played the demo. They all make a really big deal about the staggering number of hits that can be strung together. One thing that I have been reading is that you learn more moves as you advance in the game, so chances are, that the video you saw was from very early in the adventure.

[Xboxster]

I'll take the hot DOA3 chicks anyday!!!!! XXXbox rulz!

[The Buzz]

I find it interesting that you not only post this in the Sytem Wars forum, but that the reviewer agrees with what I have been saying all along about the Xbox - the game library is severely lacking in quality exclusive games to the point that it has no identity other than the console that gets PC ports.

I'm glad Ninja Gaiden is being well received, because while I think it looks totally lame and formulaic, you Xboyz are in desperate need of some decent exclusive titles.

Enjoy.


The Xbox game library is not lacking in the "fun" factor trebor and that is something you'll probably never understand or agree with. Doesn't matter if it's exclusive or not...if it happens to be exclusive to Xbox or just happens to be the best and most fun version to play amongst the "consoles"...Xbox has delivered the goods!

You like Nintendo's exclusives that's great. They've had many years and many sequels to try to get it right and keep their followers happy. MS has been in the console gaming business for a relatively short period of time in comparison and is just now starting to build up it's library of top quality and fun exclusives. With the list of upcoming games I've seen the potential for an additional six or eight of them by the end of the year is more than feasible.

Nintendo didn't do it over night either.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Not to mention thats its the best that they've seen so far this year.
Considring what it's up against in the 3-D hack n' slash genre this year, it would be pretty sad if it weren't the best of the year wouldn't you think? Seriously, what other action games have come out in the two months since New Years? I wouldn't count that as a feather in your cap quite yet.

Give over it Xbox haters.Final Fantasy:CC and MGS:TS both had good reviews.But both games werent in Ninja Gaiden's league.I guess you two"ewes"are still salty about that.If this wasnt the case then you wouldnt be belly-aching over this now would ya? Just like I thought.

Of course they aren't in the same league as Ninja Gaiden because they're playing different sports.

Considering FF:CC has multiplayer which is supposedly the be-all-end-all facit of determining a games worth, wouldn't that mean it's supperior to NG? Does NG have multiplayer? I don't even know.

All hatin' aside, I'm with Treb and Folken on this one I guess. The game looks good and I want to get it, but is still just a 3-D hack n' slash ninja game that looks purty.

["The Game"Evolution]

Considring what it's up against in the 3-D hack n' slash genre this year, it would be pretty sad if it weren't the best of the year wouldn't you think? Seriously, what other action games have come out in the two months since New Years? I wouldn't count that as a feather in your cap quite yet.



Of course they aren't in the same league as Ninja Gaiden because they're playing different sports.

Considering FF:CC has multiplayer which is supposedly the be-all-end-all facit of determining a games worth, wouldn't that mean it's supperior to NG? Does NG have multiplayer? I don't even know.

All hatin' aside, I'm with Treb and Folken on this one I guess. The game looks good and I want to get it, but is still just a 3-D hack n' slash ninja game that looks purty.

Does Ninja Gaiden has multiplayer? No.But if FF:CC was indeed a better game then why did the game get an overall rating of only 80.5%? Thats barely 80%.Compare that to 94.5% that NG received.Apparently theres more to NG than just hack and slash.Otagi for the Xbox was a mere hack and slash with no substance.Devil May Cry 2 for the PS2 was a mere hack and slash with no substance.

Ninja Gaiden is more than that.Need to be reminded of that? Read the reviews.But you,and Trebor,and Folken can continue to throw eggs if you wish.Wont change the fact that Ninja Gaiden is a great game nor will it change the fact that this game indeed will be a top contender for GOTY.Besides March is going to be a kick ass month for games.(And just think Tenchu:Online for the Xbox is coming out next month too)

[The Prince of Darkness]

but is still just a 3-D hack n' slash ninja game that looks purty.

...and GT4 is just a racing game that looks pretty:rolleyes:
...and Mario is just a platformer that looks pretty:rolleyes:
...and Soul Caliber is just a fighting game that looks pretty:rolleyes:
...and Final Fantasy is just an RPG that looks pretty:rolleyes:
...and Madden is just a sports game that looks pretty:rolleyes:

Let's just put all these genres on one side because they are the only one's that matter anymore. Action/adventure does not count now because Xbox just raised the bar.

[folken001]

Read the reviews, and read the posts from people that have played the demo. They all make a really big deal about the staggering number of hits that can be strung together. One thing that I have been reading is that you learn more moves as you advance in the game, so chances are, that the video you saw was from very early in the adventure.
Since people are making a huge deal out of this game, I will definitely play it just to see myself. However, it has always been my personal policy that I do not take what the reviews say to heart. Really, why would I care what a stranger has to say about a game.

[trebor]

I am not going to break out another list of quality exclusives, but I will say this much. The Xbox was in need of another great action title to go along with Splinter Cell, and I personally could care less if it is formulaic. We have been through the old genre discussion so many times that the discussion seems "formulaic" ;) Anyway, it has become very difficult to make games that are not standard fare because it seems like everything has been done before. In fact, I remember reading another one of your posts about NG. In it you stated that the game should be more ninja like in its gameplay, but that just sounds like a stealth game to me. Those are starting to become commonplace as well. I will give you this much, though. Nintendo is the best in the business at giving us games that are typical genres "with a twist" so it seems like they cannot be classified very easily.(hopefully you understand what I mean by that). Unfortunately for Nintendo they have too many holes with respect to the regular genres to be considered a well rounded console. Trebor---when you break it down you are in the same boat as the Xboyz except that we are lacking in different things.

You have to admit, that one quote I bolded from the original article pretty much parrallels what I have been talking about for quite some time, but to keep this from being a "formulaic" response, I'll just concede that the Xboyz have themselves a big time, happy pants exclusive to brag about for a few months.

I guess I'm just sick of the same old, same old of today's current "hit" videogames. Granted, I'm sure NG is one hell of a beat em' up - but I'm sick of beat em' ups.

Besides, one thing you kids keep forgetting is that I also game on computer as well - not "just" the Gamecube.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

.........there's some serious hate on the Xbox anytime a good exclusive game comes along for the system. I find it kind of funny, considering most, if not all, who criticize the game will probably not even play it, even if it was available to play in EBGames or Gamestop.




The reviews for Ninja Gaiden so far looks great. I'm surprised they have reviews for it so early, some usually wait until the day the game ships before reviews are posted. The Game is right, NG looks like an early 2004 GOTY contender.

[trebor]

You of all people being a Gamecube-exclusive gamer should know better than to judge something by a first impression like graphic presentation. One look at Animal Crossing would make any person think the game was not only a 64-bit or worse, 32-bit game-but that it was stupid as hell. But getting into the game, it is one of the most addictive, promising gaming experiences I have had in quite some time.

I'm not a "Gamecube-exclusive" gamer at all. I still game on computer at least half the time. Computers count too.

I'm not judging NG by it's graphic presentation - which is exactly why I can see it for the lame, formulaic, "beat em' up" that it is. It's you fellows who are mesmerized by the 'purty pictures!!'


But really, what is "totally lame" about Ninja Gaiden? The backgrounds & character models are CG quality through & through. There is no denying that this is the best looking game I have ever laid my eyes upon, console or otherwise. What is "formulatic" about the game? Have you played it? Have you read detailed impressions of it?

What is "totally lame" about Ninja Gaiden? Well, the stale genre it's in for one thing. A ninja fighting monsters and demons instead doing stealthy ninja-like activities for another.

Or how about the fact that it is a button masher through and through. Didn't you read the article where the reviewer was saying stuff like " I wasn't even paying attention to what buttons I was pressing, but Ryu pulled off amazing moves" or something like that. Sorry, but randomly hitting buttons and having the game do all the work for you sounds pretty lame to me.

Perhaps adding in foul language, buckets of blood and gore, and plenty of T&A into a game that doesn't need any of it, just to secure a "Mature" rating - so it will appeal more to the tasteless Xbox audience. Wouldn't want it to be "E" for everyone or "T" for Teen, lest people think it was some "kitty" game.

What is interesting, is that you keep going back to how it's the "best looking game you ever laid your eyes upon". Perhaps if I was an utter graphics-whore, and didn't care about substance or plot, then I might agree with all the hype surrounding this game.


I believe you are an older gamer as I myself am. And I believe that you are royally pissed that a former Nintendo-exlusive series has come to the Xbox and includes all of the original Ninja Gaiden games.

I am an older gamer, yes. I could honestly care less about "a former Nintendo-exclusive series coming to the Xbox" simply because I never played the original. So I don't care.


I have been harping on the Xbox more lately than ever before. I've sold bunches of games that I no longer care for and I've stopped buying the official magazine and will not be renewing my subscription to XBN. But I give credit where credit is due: Ninja Gaiden is tied with Castlevania as my #1 favorite gaming series of all time. This new game looks and from everything I have read from every possible source-plays even better than any other game out there. I bought my Xbox for this game alone. Wednesday, I will finally have a game in my hands that can single-handedly justify the existence of Xbox.

Well, it is interesting to read that you think this one game will "justify the existence of Xbox". Too bad this game has come out over two years after the "existence" of Xbox started.


Ninja Gaiden, nothing will compare.

Yes, I hope that's true. I hope nothing coming out in the future will be exactly like this game, but with varied graphics - you know, like the hundreds of games like NG that came out before??

[trebor]

Dont' worry Trebor. You are not alone on this. :) I kinda agree with you. I saw this one music video of Ninja Gaiden. It basically just shows real time footage of a good 4 mins of gameplay. I repeatedly saw the same 2 comboes over and over again. Trust me, if the game is like what I saw in the vid, the game is going to be like a blonde, pretty, but shallow. You know, kinda like DOA3.

Now here is a guy who gets it.

[trebor]

All hatin' aside, I'm with Treb and Folken on this one I guess. The game looks good and I want to get it, but is still just a 3-D hack n' slash ninja game that looks purty.

Here is another guy that gets it.

This isn't about hating the Xbox or Micro$oft. This is about people being able to admit that 95% of the hype surrounding this game is about it's graphics and not it's substance or plot.

There is nothing wrong with liking a game simply because of the "purty pictures", but to get so defensive about people needing more than fancy polygons and lighting is just silly.

[The Buzz]

I'm not a "Gamecube-exclusive" gamer at all. I still game on computer at least half the time. Computers count too.

I'm not judging NG by it's graphic presentation - which is exactly why I can see it for the lame, formulaic, "beat em' up" that it is. It's you fellows who are mesmerized by the 'purty pictures!!'



What is "totally lame" about Ninja Gaiden? Well, the stale genre it's in for one thing. A ninja fighting monsters and demons instead doing stealthy ninja-like activities for another.

Or how about the fact that it is a button masher through and through. Didn't you read the article where the reviewer was saying stuff like " I wasn't even paying attention to what buttons I was pressing, but Ryu pulled off amazing moves" or something like that. Sorry, but randomly hitting buttons and having the game do all the work for you sounds pretty lame to me.

Perhaps adding in foul language, buckets of blood and gore, and plenty of T&A into a game that doesn't need any of it, just to secure a "Mature" rating - so it will appeal more to the tasteless Xbox audience. Wouldn't want it to be "E" for everyone or "T" for Teen, lest people think it was some "kitty" game.

What is interesting, is that you keep going back to how it's the "best looking game you ever laid your eyes upon". Perhaps if I was an utter graphics-whore, and didn't care about substance or plot, then I might agree with all the hype surrounding this game.



I am an older gamer, yes. I could honestly care less about "a former Nintendo-exclusive series coming to the Xbox" simply because I never played the original. So I don't care.



Well, it is interesting to read that you think this one game will "justify the existence of Xbox". Too bad this game has come out over two years after the "existence" of Xbox started.



Yes, I hope that's true. I hope nothing coming out in the future will be exactly like this game, but with varied graphics - you know, like the hundreds of games like NG that came out before??

Please...just about every game out now-a-days is a "stale" genre...as in has been done before...so by your logic 90% of all games released should be "lame"...including the ones YOU like. NG isn't just a button masher...what the reviewer was saying is that it was easy to pick up and pull off some cool moves. According to everything I've read there's a plethora of attacks and moves to be mastered and every new section of the game is different and requires different tactics to beat and advance.

On second thought you should just stick to your GC and PC and not worry about NG. Doesn't sound like it's for you anyway.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Here is another guy that gets it.

This isn't about hating the Xbox or Micro$oft. This is about people being able to admit that 95% of the hype surrounding this game is about it's graphics and not it's substance or plot.

There is nothing wrong with liking a game simply because of the "purty pictures", but to get so defensive about people needing more than fancy polygons and lighting is just silly.

I believe most of the hype surrounds the gameplay and the fact that it's pure action. Xbox owners pretty much know that exclusive games will look nice (especially a Team Ninja game), but it's the gameplay that counts. If you go back and read any of the threads about the NG demo, it mentions the gameplay and how great it is.

As far as plot, it has one, but it will take a back seat to the gameplay. Devil May Cry's plot (did it even have one?) definitely took a backseat to the gameplay. Even Viewtiful Joe's plot took a backseat to the gameplay for some gamers (especially me).

[Renzatic Gear]

I haven't read the review yet, but I want someone here to answer (cuz I'm lazy)...

Can you climb on the walls? And are there lots of tight jumps over bottomless pits? By god there better be.

[trebor]

Please...just about every game out now-a-days is a "stale" genre...as in has been done before...so by your logic 90% of all games released should be "lame"...including the ones YOU like.

Ahh...the mystery of Trebor is now revealed. I utterly, completely and entirely believe that at least 90% of today's games are lame - if not more. Just like 99% of new music is horrible crap, 95% of new movies are utter trash and 99.9% of television is garbage. Don't you get it? Everything sucks. Corporations have ruined ALL of these forms of entertainment.

So, aside from a few personal favorites, the majority of today's videogames are sacks of crap. Of course, that is just opinion. You remember what an opinion is, correct?


On second thought you should just stick to your GC and PC and not worry about NG. Doesn't sound like it's for you anyway.

It's not.

[Gadfly2317]

Ahh...the mystery of Trebor is now revealed. I utterly, completely and entirely believe that at least 90% of today's games are lame - if not more. Just like 99% of new music is horrible crap, 95% of new movies are utter trash and 99.9% of television is garbage. Don't you get it? Everything sucks. Corporations have ruined ALL of these forms of entertainment.

So, aside from a few personal favorites, the majority of today's videogames are sacks of crap. Of course, that is just opinion. You remember what an opinion is, correct?



It's not.


I'm kinda with you here on this. I think 95% of what is out there is crap. But damn, that 5% sure seems to eat a lot of my damned money. So much indie music and film, and I have to buy it because its sure not on the radio, and half the time not even for download.

On Ninja Gaiden, I see where you're coming from. To me, it looks like a pretty game that is very formulaic. I feel almost certain you can subtract one point from every score, because these reviewers just got their hands on a game their stoked about, it LOOKS better than anything they've played, maybe, and its an update on a revered franchise, which is bound to boost its hype and score levels with older reviewers.

But the thing is, sifting through all the crap to play, its true as some have said that "its all been done." I think what may end up making this one actually be a great game, is that even if hacking and slashing is a tired genre, a genre can be worth revisiting if something truly special is done--and if Ninja Gaiden captures "fun" factor, great controls, amazing moves, intense sound, atmosphere and of course the great graphics. . . if it takes the total package it could invigorate the old genre and make it feel knew again just because it so much better, so much more of an experience. I don't know if this game will be that.

But that's how I felt about Ikaruga, nothing more over done than a shooter, but this little piece of software threw in just enough little tweaks to make the genre feel fresh and brilliant all over again.

I may spend my may money on the Suffering 'cause I'm into that right now, but I'll have to play Ninja, if for no other reason than to see if it lives up to the hype. I really hope it does. We need more great games in the world.

[Deathstroke]

I'm not judging NG by it's graphic presentation - which is exactly why I can see it for the lame, formulaic, "beat em' up" that it is. It's you fellows who are mesmerized by the 'purty pictures!!'

That's a purty (pun intended) general response. From your posts it appears you don't seem to have much of an appreciation for this particular genre. One thing I can tell from the reviews, NG isn't just a formulaic beat em up game. Formulaic is something that doesn't break from the mould and Ninja Gaiden does break from the mould otherwise we'd have another Godai: Elements of Power or another Shinobi, which wasn't too bad but clearly wasn't up on the level of the games that have set the bar in this genre. Ninja Gaiden is on that level.

As for the same two combo's repeated over and over, that is probably just an early vid or maybe someone inexperienced was playing. One thing you can tell immediately from the reviews and from actual hands on I've read, you can go a lot higher in terms of combos in the game. And it does take some measure of skill. That thing you quoted from the reviews about not even looking at the buttons. The thing you forgot to mention was that the reviewer was commenting on the relative ease of the controls and how they worked despite the somewhat troublesome camera.

All in all, games like Ninja Gaiden are attractive to people because they can accurately translate the gameplay of old 2d classics like Streets of Rage and Double Dragons into a 3d world. That is something that not many 3d games have been able to do. The last that effectively pulled it off was Devil May Cry and you should appreciate the difficulty of a task like that because the game is over two years old.

[Joah_from_Alberta]

Hooray for Xbox.

All good things come to an end, and so shall all bad things come to an end. Hopefully Ninja Gaiden will kick start the video game industry. I personally don't own an xbox, I might buy one for a 100bucks, but then I would still be concerned about the bulk of it in my living space.

Congratulations for xbox! This game does not take away from PC (unlike crimson sky, raven shield, halo etc ...) It appears to be a true to heart next-gen console game. Maybe Nintendo can take some notes here.

Anyhow, I hope you xbots enjoy your game for (even though you be who you are) you deserve a piece of the pie!!! Right on mang!!!

[T.Tashi]

That's a purty (pun intended) general response. From your posts it appears you don't seem to have much of an appreciation for this particular genre. One thing I can tell from the reviews, NG isn't just a formulaic beat em up game. Formulaic is something that doesn't break from the mould and Ninja Gaiden does break from the mould otherwise we'd have another Godai: Elements of Power or another Shinobi, which wasn't too bad but clearly wasn't up on the level of the games that have set the bar in this genre. Ninja Gaiden is on that level.

As for the same two combo's repeated over and over, that is probably just an early vid or maybe someone inexperienced was playing. One thing you can tell immediately from the reviews and from actual hands on I've read, you can go a lot higher in terms of combos in the game. And it does take some measure of skill. That thing you quoted from the reviews about not even looking at the buttons. The thing you forgot to mention was that the reviewer was commenting on the relative ease of the controls and how they worked despite the somewhat troublesome camera.

All in all, games like Ninja Gaiden are attractive to people because they can accurately translate the gameplay of old 2d classics like Streets of Rage and Double Dragons into a 3d world. That is something that not many 3d games have been able to do. The last that effectively pulled it off was Devil May Cry and you should appreciate the difficulty of a task like that because the game is over two years old.
I played the demo and graphically it's very impressive of course. But it felt very similar to Onimusha 2 and Prince of Persia. The enemies even disappear and dissolve in a particle effect of red blood and they leave behind yellow and pink orbs to pick up. It's clear Onimusha was a big influence. And for me the camera was problematic. The right analog goes immediately into 1st person to look around. So it was a pain sometimes to get the cam where I wanted it to make a jump or run across a wall.

The strength of the game is its simplicity in the controller and the complexity of moves you can do. You can button mash but it'll only get you so far. Jumping off the walls and doing combos and crashing down with some special attack was a lotta fun. Especially when enemies corner you. All the standard wall jumping, running, cliff hangin, is there. It's a really good game. And if you're really wowed by the graphics, it's a great game.

[AOE Enforcer]

That's a purty (pun intended) general response. From your posts it appears you don't seem to have much of an appreciation for this particular genre. One thing I can tell from the reviews, NG isn't just a formulaic beat em up game. Formulaic is something that doesn't break from the mould and Ninja Gaiden does break from the mould otherwise we'd have another Godai: Elements of Power or another Shinobi, which wasn't too bad but clearly wasn't up on the level of the games that have set the bar in this genre. Ninja Gaiden is on that level.

As for the same two combo's repeated over and over, that is probably just an early vid or maybe someone inexperienced was playing. One thing you can tell immediately from the reviews and from actual hands on I've read, you can go a lot higher in terms of combos in the game. And it does take some measure of skill. That thing you quoted from the reviews about not even looking at the buttons. The thing you forgot to mention was that the reviewer was commenting on the relative ease of the controls and how they worked despite the somewhat troublesome camera.

All in all, games like Ninja Gaiden are attractive to people because they can accurately translate the gameplay of old 2d classics like Streets of Rage and Double Dragons into a 3d world. That is something that not many 3d games have been able to do. The last that effectively pulled it off was Devil May Cry and you should appreciate the difficulty of a task like that because the game is over two years old.

My appreciation and anticipation for this game doesn't come from the graphics. I decided to buy an Xbox for this game long before a single screenshot was ever shown. My love and longing for this game comes from my love of the action/adventure genre. Like you said, this is a next-gen update of a classic series that to this day I still play the original incarnations of. Having beautiful graphics to go hand-in-hand with great gameplay is a sweet bonus. Having all three original NES games plus the arcade game seals the deal for just about anyone I would think.

[Bob-the-Fish]

I'll start here.
Does Ninja Gaiden has multiplayer? No.But if FF:CC was indeed a better game then why did the game get an overall rating of only 80.5%? Thats barely 80%.Compare that to 94.5% that NG received.Apparently theres more to NG than just hack and slash.Otagi for the Xbox was a mere hack and slash with no substance.Devil May Cry 2 for the PS2 was a mere hack and slash with no substance.

Ninja Gaiden is more than that.Need to be reminded of that? Read the reviews.But you,and Trebor,and Folken can continue to throw eggs if you wish.Wont change the fact that Ninja Gaiden is a great game nor will it change the fact that this game indeed will be a top contender for GOTY.Besides March is going to be a kick ass month for games.(And just think Tenchu:Online for the Xbox is coming out next month too)

You, my freind, put way too much stock in gamerankings.com. While it is a good baramoter of the popularity of a game with reviewers, it is not the final indicator on what games are supperior to others. Certain games score higher then they should and others are brought down by a couple of bad reviews that could be done by someone who just deosn't get that particular game. If a PC gamer reviews a console game, do you think he would give it the same score console gamer would give it? He certainly wouldn't be impressed by graphics. Some sites and reviews are done on a 1-5 point scale while others are on 1-100 pecentage score. So if a game gets a 3, which is decent on one site, that translates to a 60% on gamerankings. You get what I'm sayin with that? (If that's not enough, since I know you're an Xbox fan, I would like to point out that Xbox owns seven of the top twelve worst console games of this generation on the chart. But that doesn't make the better games worse)

...and GT4 is just a racing game that looks pretty
...and Mario is just a platformer that looks pretty
...and Soul Caliber is just a fighting game that looks pretty
...and Final Fantasy is just an RPG that looks pretty
...and Madden is just a sports game that looks pretty

Ok... Let's just ignore every game then, throw away our systems and play tiddlywinks all day.

I see that the games you mentioned are all considered the best of thier respective genres and I'm guessing that was intentional. I would disagree on Soul Calibur because I think that is just a fighting game that looks pretty and Mario is not the greatest platformer around anymore, but other then that your right. Each of those games are some of the best looking (and also best playing) games in their genres. I never wanted to give the impression that I though NG was not the best looking, and probably playing, 3-D hack n's slash around. I haven't played it yet so I am refraining from passing judgement on it jjust yet. Unlike "Game" I like to play a game before deciding how great it is and not go on a couple of numbers on some site.

Ninja Gaiden is still just a beat 'em up though, and while it may be great fun and provide many a wannabe ninja (me included) the oppertunity to slice up evil demons and paint the walls with their blood, it is still a hack n' slash game. In my book, those can't go that far. Devil May Cry: good, stylish, bloody action but I haven't played it in quite sometime. I will pick up RPGs and play through them again because their like reading a good book, but an action game is an action game and once you've learn the moves, killed hundreds of faceless demons, that's it. I know: I'm strange.

.........there's some serious hate on the Xbox anytime a good exclusive game comes along for the system. I find it kind of funny, considering most, if not all, who criticize the game will probably not even play it, even if it was available to play in EBGames or Gamestop.

No hate intended, just trying to keep an even eye on developments. I will buy this game because it will be great fun and looks spectacular by console standards. Respawning enemies, disapearing bodies and iffy camera aside. I don't know if I'll be paying $50 for it, but I certainly will get it eventually.

[Deathstroke]

I just have one further question to ask:

When did it become unfashionable to excel at a particular game?

[yacobschlomo]

I have a question for some people too.

Why is it that when the Xbox gets a good game in a certain genre, that genre then becomes one that is full of rehashed games that aren't worth playing. FPS's, Racing Games, Sports, and now Action? What genres still count?

[Bob-the-Fish]

I just have one further question to ask:

When did it become unfashionable to excel at a particular game?

I never noticed it had become unfasionable to excell in a particular game. These days, with online competition available for anyone with a highspeed connection, it's a big thing. These people that whip me in RS3 and have their names at the tops of the ladders are deffinately "excelling" in their chosen game.

I have a question for some people too.

Why is it that when the Xbox gets a good game in a certain genre, that genre then becomes one that is full of rehashed games that aren't worth playing. FPS's, Racing Games, Sports, and now Action? What genres still count?

Personally, I think all the genres still count. We get the same thing from the Xbox crowd every time the PS2 gets another RPG or there's another survival horror game on GC.

[yacobschlomo]

Haven't been reading much of the posts lately so I really don't know what's been going on here. The Xbox crowd you are talking about are probably on my ignore list anyways (even before the site had that feature).

Ninja Gaiden looks like a good game to me. The demo wasn't too impressive. Reminds me a lot of Devil May Cry and Onimusha, but seems like it should be better from what I have seen so far. Hopefully it'll have some replay value. That seems to be something that a lot of games in its genre lack.

["The Game"Evolution]

I'll start here.


You, my freind, put way too much stock in gamerankings.com. While it is a good baramoter of the popularity of a game with reviewers, it is not the final indicator on what games are supperior to others. Certain games score higher then they should and others are brought down by a couple of bad reviews that could be done by someone who just deosn't get that particular game. If a PC gamer reviews a console game, do you think he would give it the same score console gamer would give it? He certainly wouldn't be impressed by graphics. Some sites and reviews are done on a 1-5 point scale while others are on 1-100 pecentage score. So if a game gets a 3, which is decent on one site, that translates to a 60% on gamerankings. You get what I'm sayin with that? (If that's not enough, since I know you're an Xbox fan, I would like to point out that Xbox owns seven of the top twelve worst console games of this generation on the chart. But that doesn't make the better games worse)

Ok... Let's just ignore every game then, throw away our systems and play tiddlywinks all day.

I see that the games you mentioned are all considered the best of thier respective genres and I'm guessing that was intentional. I would disagree on Soul Calibur because I think that is just a fighting game that looks pretty and Mario is not the greatest platformer around anymore, but other then that your right. Each of those games are some of the best looking (and also best playing) games in their genres. I never wanted to give the impression that I though NG was not the best looking, and probably playing, 3-D hack n's slash around. I haven't played it yet so I am refraining from passing judgement on it jjust yet. Unlike "Game" I like to play a game before deciding how great it is and not go on a couple of numbers on some site.

Ninja Gaiden is still just a beat 'em up though, and while it may be great fun and provide many a wannabe ninja (me included) the oppertunity to slice up evil demons and paint the walls with their blood, it is still a hack n' slash game. In my book, those can't go that far. Devil May Cry: good, stylish, bloody action but I haven't played it in quite sometime. I will pick up RPGs and play through them again because their like reading a good book, but an action game is an action game and once you've learn the moves, killed hundreds of faceless demons, that's it. I know: I'm strange.


No hate intended, just trying to keep an even eye on developments. I will buy this game because it will be great fun and looks spectacular by console standards. Respawning enemies, disapearing bodies and iffy camera aside. I don't know if I'll be paying $50 for it, but I certainly will get it eventually.

Oh and the PS2 doesnt have a huge list of stinkers themselves? Oh yes it does.Anytime you would like to sit here and talk about them I'm game for it.Are you?"The Bouncer?" Or shall we go for a more recent stinker like"Devil May Cry 2?" Or"American Idol?" Or how about the latest"Drakenguard?" Overall score of 64.4% Or the latest action game with Jet Li"Rise To Honor"overall score of 68.1%.

The only games that has decent reviews for this year for the PS2 thats not a multiplatform title is Winning Eleven and Star Ocean.Other than that you can hear a cat piss on cotton when it comes to runaway hits on the PS2 so far this year.

Plus the 1st Soul Calibur on the Sega Dreamcast still to this day is the best fighting game ever made IMO Period.And most experts in the videogame world would say the exact same thing.From gameplay to graphics.SC2 looked and played great but to me its not even remotely close to the same quality as the 1st one was.Its not all about looks here.

Games like Halo,Grand Turismo,Rachet & Clank,Devil May Cry,KOTOR;etc These are games thats raised the bar of each of their respective genres.You can sit there and call each one of these games just"purty"all you want.But any up and coming game of each individual genre will be judged from those others thats been considered the measuring stick.Thats for certain.Bottom line here is stop judging it and go and buy it.If you still feel the same after you buy the real game then thats on you.Till then Bob dont kid yourself.

If a mere hack and slash was all that Ninja Gaiden was then Devil May Cry 2 should've been game of the century then.Thank god Ninja Gaiden was nowhere as boring as DMC2 was.

["The Game"Evolution]

I have a question for some people too.

Why is it that when the Xbox gets a good game in a certain genre, that genre then becomes one that is full of rehashed games that aren't worth playing. FPS's, Racing Games, Sports, and now Action? What genres still count?

Since you're such an expert on Xbox titles.Why dont you paint us a picture and show us what exactly you're talking about?(crickets churping)

[Deathstroke]

I never noticed it had become unfasionable to excell in a particular game. These days, with online competition available for anyone with a highspeed connection, it's a big thing. These people that whip me in RS3 and have their names at the tops of the ladders are deffinately "excelling" in their chosen game.

I guess apparently that's true for the members of this board. I wonder just how many of you actually try to excel at these games and not just pass them by after beating them the first time.

Why is it that when the Xbox gets a good game in a certain genre, that genre then becomes one that is full of rehashed games that aren't worth playing. FPS's, Racing Games, Sports, and now Action? What genres still count?

The Japanese RPG. :D

Seriously though, I think a lot of that has to do with System Wars. You do unto others as they've done unto you. I mean can you blame them especially after the Game goes on one of his wild bashing spree's. It's like one of the moderators (ET) said in another thread..... something about Gaza meaning that it resembles the whole Israeli/Palestenian 'tit for tat' thing.

[Bob-the-Fish]

gamerankings, gamerankings, etc.

Here's what I see when I look at gamerankings:
The PS2 has 27 titles that scored 90% (4.5 on a 5 point scale) or above. Of those titles 8 of them are "exclusive."
The Xbox has 12 titles that scored 90% or above. Of those titles 3 are exclusive.

The PS2 has 164 titles that scored 80% (4 on a 5 point scale) or above. Of the titles above 85% in that group not counting the ones above 90%, there are 16 exclusives.
The Xbox has 112 titles that scored 80% or above. Of those titles that are above 85% and not counted already as above 90%, there are 12 exclusives.

There are 12 titles on the PS2 that scored 40% (2 on a 5 point scale) or below. The Xbox has 15 titles in that range.

Now all that would indicate that the PS2 is a superior console then the Xbox. They have more AAA games, more better then average games and less bad games. But when I read reviews I don't pay that much attention to the 9.25 or 4.7 or whatever. What is the difference between a game that gets a 9 and a 9.25? I'm more fond of the 5 point scal myself which is more a reference then a quantifier for the quality of the game. I tried to get this across before but I'll try to explain it a little better. See on a 5 point scale a 3 is still considered a decent game that would appeal to fans of the genre or people who wanted the game. On gamerankings, that translates to a 60% which, according to your post above, indicates you think that means it is a terrible game not worthy of mention by a chimp.

I don't look at reviewer's numbers to determine whether or not I will like a game. I look at the page long review and ask other people what they thought of it. Numbers and statistics can mean just about anything when looked at the right way. Look at baseball (which has the worst stat tracking system of any sport) John Smoltz on the Braves is still considered a great pitcher because he gets a lot of "saves" which really means he comes in for the last ining of the game when the team is already ahead and doesn't lose the game. Not that I'm saying John Smoltz is not a good pitcher, but the stats for a closer are complete BS. Or you can take the "4 out of 5 doctors recommend it" thing that appears all the time. Statistically that's only 80%. Do you really want a drug that only 80% of doctors approve? I sure don't, it might kill me. That's why they say 4 out of 5, because it sounds a hell of a lot better.

[The Buzz]

Ahh...the mystery of Trebor is now revealed. I utterly, completely and entirely believe that at least 90% of today's games are lame - if not more. Just like 99% of new music is horrible crap, 95% of new movies are utter trash and 99.9% of television is garbage. Don't you get it? Everything sucks. Corporations have ruined ALL of these forms of entertainment.

So, aside from a few personal favorites, the majority of today's videogames are sacks of crap. Of course, that is just opinion. You remember what an opinion is, correct?



It's not.

You got it wrong...it's PEOPLE that suck!

That's my opinion...

[yacobschlomo]

The Japanese RPG. :D

Seriously though, I think a lot of that has to do with System Wars. You do unto others as they've done unto you. I mean can you blame them especially after the Game goes on one of his wild bashing spree's. It's like one of the moderators (ET) said in another thread..... something about Gaza meaning that it resembles the whole Israeli/Palestenian 'tit for tat' thing.

Ah, yes the Game. I don't understand why anyone bothers to read his posts anymore. He doesn't even attempt to read anyone elses posts or try to comprehend what they are saying before he responds. So why even listen to what he has to say, much less reply to his posts? Makes it difficult to understand the context of a post sometimes when people bash a system for no reason.

[Glockstar]

I played the demo and graphically it's very impressive of course. But it felt very similar to Onimusha 2 and Prince of Persia.

Alright, I've read of Onimusha getting mentioned in the same sentence as NG too many times now... somebody 'splain this to me!?! The Onimusha game that I played, Genma, for the XBox, was... so stiff; and awkward; and so... not smooth. I thought it was terrible. (Like Bloodrayne.) If the PS2 versions are anything like the XB one, then I don't follow how this game/series is similar to Ninja Gaiden. I'm afraid that one of us doesn't know what the heck we're talking about here. :confused:

-
The enemies even disappear and dissolve in a particle effect of red blood and they leave behind yellow and pink orbs to pick up.

Yeah, like in Buffy.

-
And for me the camera was problematic. The right analog goes immediately into 1st person to look around. So it was a pain sometimes to get the cam where I wanted it to make a jump or run across a wall.


Yeah, unlike Buffy. Unfortunately :(
The controls for Buffy (and Indiana Jones) are what I would call intuitive. Control the characters movement with the left thumbstick, the camera perspectives with the right. The Collective had it, man! And It's just a shame that nobody else has figured that out! Using the right thumbstick to look around in the first-person is smart - but only if and when you toggle said look off and on. I wonder if the "real" version will let us "customize" our controls? The only saving grace for NG's camera control method, is that it is sooo responsive.

- - - -

The game looks good and I want to get it, but is still just a 3-D hack n' slash ninja game that looks purty.

Considring what it's up against in the 3-D hack n' slash genre this year, it would be pretty sad if it weren't the best of the year wouldn't you think?

Ninja Gaiden is still just a beat 'em up though, and while it may be great fun and provide many a wannabe ninja (me included) the oppertunity to slice up evil demons and paint the walls with their blood, it is still a hack n' slash game.

Bob, I can't tell you how mistaken you are in calling NG a hack-n-slasher. That's like calling fighting games hack-n-slash. You seem to be missing (or ignoring?) a lot of what's been said about the games other elements. All of which go hand in hand in with the combo-stringing-combat and combine to make a game that is not only fun on a number of different levels, but also put the game at the top it's class.

H&S'er's are games like Gauntlet, Hunter the Reckoning, and EA's LOTR games. Games where the action is pretty basic; where you pretty much just kill the bad guys, and that's it. And the bad guys aren't very smart. (And that's putting it nicely.) Also, these games have virtually no depth to their combat. NG is no h&s'er, believe me, though it's as fun as one. No check that... it's more fun.

It's one thing to say that a certain genre, or certain game is not your "cup of tea", but come on... try to open a little bit more on those games, eh? If for no other reason, than to at least give them the credit they deserve when they bring so much to the gamers who do like them.

[E.T.]

Seriously though, I think a lot of that has to do with System Wars. You do unto others as they've done unto you. I mean can you blame them especially after the Game goes on one of his wild bashing spree's. It's like one of the moderators (ET) said in another thread..... something about Gaza meaning that it resembles the whole Israeli/Palestenian 'tit for tat' thing.


Not to belittle the strife in the MiddleEast, but SW is like the Gaza Strip. There are two "camps" here that just cant get along.

I may not know the origins of conflict here amongst some SW posters, but I do know those who participate in it jeopardize their privilege of participation on these forums.

[Renzatic Gear]

SHUDDUP! YOU ALL R TEH SUK!

BLAAHHHH STALKER!

BLAAHHHH THIEF 3!

I think I might buy Ninja Gaiden and an Xbox next week...might as well, the emulators aren't coming along fast enough so I don't have any other choice.

Sometimes I gotta accept the fact that I can't always be as cheap as I wanna be.

[joquito]

If you press the right trigger, the camera moves into the position that Ryu is looking (still in 3rd person). The first person view is only for exploring small rooms. Small rooms are the only area with static cameras, that suck. With MGS 2, RE, Silent Hill, etc. Ninja Gaiden isn't alone.

["The Game"Evolution]

Ah, yes the Game. I don't understand why anyone bothers to read his posts anymore. He doesn't even attempt to read anyone elses posts or try to comprehend what they are saying before he responds. So why even listen to what he has to say, much less reply to his posts? Makes it difficult to understand the context of a post sometimes when people bash a system for no reason.

I read every post very carefully.Its not my fault you dont like what I say.Its only my opinion.If what I had to say didnt have any truth to it you wouldnt be sounding so ticked off now would you? Exactly.So dont go putting words in my mouth on bashing anything.Because I dont do that.I speak my mind on things yes.But I always give credit where credit is due.Something alot of you dont do.So lets keep it clean shall we?

[yacobschlomo]

Alright, I've read of Onimusha getting mentioned in the same sentence as NG too many times now... somebody 'splain this to me!?! The Onimusha game that I played, Genma, for the XBox, was... so stiff; and awkward; and so... not smooth. I thought it was terrible. (Like Bloodrayne.) If the PS2 versions are anything like the XB one, then I don't follow how this game/series is similar to Ninja Gaiden. I'm afraid that one of us doesn't know what the heck we're talking about here. :confused:



I made that comparison myself. I should have been clearer and said that it seemed like a mixture of Onimusha 2, Devil May Cry, and also Prince or Persia. Onimusha on its own doesn't match up to NG. Onimusha 2 had some pretty good sword play, which was what part of the NG demo reminded me of.

[Deathstroke]

Yeah, Genma on X-box was based on the first Onimusha game. I found Onimusha 2 to have better swordsplay and the Issen Counters were a good way to spice up the gameplay. Still, Gaiden has the better controls because Onimusha's are stiff by comparison.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Bob, I can't tell you how mistaken you are in calling NG a hack-n-slasher. That's like calling fighting games hack-n-slash. You seem to be missing (or ignoring?) a lot of what's been said about the games other elements. All of which go hand in hand in with the combo-stringing-combat and combine to make a game that is not only fun on a number of different levels, but also put the game at the top it's class.

H&S'er's are games like Gauntlet, Hunter the Reckoning, and EA's LOTR games. Games where the action is pretty basic; where you pretty much just kill the bad guys, and that's it. And the bad guys aren't very smart. (And that's putting it nicely.) Also, these games have virtually no depth to their combat. NG is no h&s'er, believe me, though it's as fun as one. No check that... it's more fun.

It appears that my definition of a hack n' slash/beat 'em up/action game is different from yours! When I think H&S, I also think of games like LOTR, Hunter and Gauntlet. But I also include games like Devil May Cry, Shinobi and Ominishu. For a game to be H&S, it has to involve the killing of continuous streams of enemies with various weapons, fighting bosses and using a variety of "special moves." It does not mean a game has no depth to it's combat. DMC had a wide variety of ulockable moves and the ability to perform various combos with different timing of button presses (the repeating stab move was my fav). When a game has depth to it's combat as DMC did, it makes it a lot more exciting!

From what I have heard about the game from other posters here and reviews I have checked out, that fits NG pretty well. Respawning enemies, boss fights etc.

It's one thing to say that a certain genre, or certain game is not your "cup of tea", but come on... try to open a little bit more on those games, eh? If for no other reason, than to at least give them the credit they deserve when they bring so much to the gamers who do like them.

I may not be making myself clear here. I do think NG looks to be one of the best H&S games to come out in recent memory. I am giving it credit while trying not to place it on a pedestal of uncomparable greatness. I have not had the oppertunity to play the demo, so I have not passed judgement on it yet. I love a good H&S game and am looking forward to playing this one, not because it is the greatest game ever, but because it looks to be an excellent bloody romp through ninja land.

[Nissian X]

You of all people being a Gamecube-exclusive gamer should know better than to judge something by a first impression like graphic presentation. One look at Animal Crossing would make any person think the game was not only a 64-bit or worse, 32-bit game-but that it was stupid as hell. But getting into the game, it is one of the most addictive, promising gaming experiences I have had in quite some time.

But really, what is "totally lame" about Ninja Gaiden? The backgrounds & character models are CG quality through & through. There is no denying that this is the best looking game I have ever laid my eyes upon, console or otherwise. What is "formulatic" about the game? Have you played it? Have you read detailed impressions of it?

I believe you are an older gamer as I myself am. And I believe that you are royally pissed that a former Nintendo-exlusive series has come to the Xbox and includes all of the original Ninja Gaiden games.

I have been harping on the Xbox more lately than ever before. I've sold bunches of games that I no longer care for and I've stopped buying the official magazine and will not be renewing my subscription to XBN. But I give credit where credit is due: Ninja Gaiden is tied with Castlevania as my #1 favorite gaming series of all time. This new game looks and from everything I have read from every possible source-plays even better than any other game out there. I bought my Xbox for this game alone. Wednesday, I will finally have a game in my hands that can single-handedly justify the existence of Xbox.

Ninja Gaiden, nothing will compare.

Excellent post Geezer.
Although I don't think that Trebor is all alone from a GC or PS2 owner standpoint.
Neither the GC or PS2 ever released or will release an exclusive that will be the most mentioned game between all the platforms, impact games, you know?
GC and PS2 haven't really had any big games to talk about. I think Trebor is just jealous.

[Glockstar]

-
It appears that my definition of a hack n' slash/beat 'em up/action game is different from yours! When I think H&S, I also think of games like LOTR, Hunter and Gauntlet. But I also include games like Devil May Cry, Shinobi and Ominishu. For a game to be H&S, it has to involve the killing of continuous streams of enemies with various weapons, fighting bosses and using a variety of "special moves." It does not mean a game has no depth to it's combat. DMC had a wide variety of ulockable moves and the ability to perform various combos with different timing of button presses (the repeating stab move was my fav). When a game has depth to it's combat as DMC did, it makes it a lot more exciting!

From what I have heard about the game from other posters here and reviews I have checked out, that fits NG pretty well. Respawning enemies, boss fights etc.

-
I may not be making myself clear here. I do think NG looks to be one of the best H&S games to come out in recent memory. I am giving it credit while trying not to place it on a pedestal of uncomparable greatness. I have not had the oppertunity to play the demo, so I have not passed judgement on it yet. I love a good H&S game and am looking forward to playing this one, not because it is the greatest game ever, but because it looks to be an excellent bloody romp through ninja land.

Two things Bobby...

One, I think it's important that we're all on the same page when it comes to classifying games. This is a review site after all. I mean, you wouldn't call Mario Kart a sim racer, would you? Or call Morrowind a J-RPG; or classify The Sims as a strategy game? No, because not only is it erroneous, but it could also be misleading.

Like I said, I don't care if you like the genre, nor do I care if you're going to get the game or not (well, not really) but I do care for accuracy. Ninja Gaiden can't be just a "hack-n-slasher" because it's got: platforming, puzzle solving, and requires skill and tactics - along with really deep combat and an A.I. that's pretty doggone smart. This is an action/adventure game to the Nth degree. I said this before too, mashing repeatedly on a button will get you nice score, for the moment, but it won't get you to the end of the game. There's more to NG than dispensing with enemies. A lot more. The combat/fighting and dispensing of said enemies is as fun as a hack-n-slasher, but that doesn't mean that the game is one, understandie? Though there is no doubt that it's because NG is so fun... and arcadey... and all of the above... that people are so giddy about it.

The other thing Bob, is that you are on record for calling NG "just" a hack-n-slasher. Well when those comments are coupled with other peoples poo-poo'ing of what is being called the best game in it's class, I have a bit of a problem with that. Because I'd like to know just what it is some people are looking for in a videogame anyways? If we fall in line with their logic, we'd all be calling 'Wind Waker just another Ocarina, Beyond Good & Evil just another Zelda game, Halo just another FPS, Xenosaga just another J-RPG, Soul Calibur II just another fighting game, Viewtiful Joe just another 2D side-scroller, Mario Kart: DD just another kart racer, Disgaea just another strategy game, Voodoo Vince just another platformer, Crimson Skies just another flying game, blah blah blah... and there's no reason to buy or play games anymore'! Which I don't just disagree with, I think that's just STUPID!

[Bob-the-Fish]

One, I think it's important that we're all on the same page when it comes to classifying games. This is a review site after all. I mean, you wouldn't call Mario Kart a sim racer, would you? Or call Morrowind a J-RPG; or classify The Sims as a strategy game? No, because not only is it erroneous, but it could also be misleading. Like I said, I don't care if you like the genre, nor do I care if you're going to get the game or not (well, not really) but I do care for accuracy. Ninja Gaiden can't be just a "hack-n-slasher" because it's got: platforming, puzzle solving, and requires skill and tactics - along with really deep combat and an A.I. that's pretty doggone smart. This is an action/adventure game to the Nth degree. I said this before too, mashing repeatedly on a button will get you nice score, for the moment, but it won't get you to the end of the game. There's more to NG than dispensing with enemies. A lot more. The combat/fighting and dispensing of said enemies is as fun as a hack-n-slasher, but that doesn't mean that the game is one, understandie? Though there is no doubt that it's because NG is so fun... and arcadey... and all of the above... that people are so giddy about it.

The other thing Bob, is that you are on record for calling NG "just" a hack-n-slasher. Well when those comments are coupled with other peoples poo-poo'ing of what is being called the best game in it's class, I have a bit of a problem with that. Because I'd like to know just what it is some people are looking for in a videogame anyways? If we fall in line with their logic, we'd all be calling 'Wind Waker just another Ocarina, Beyond Good & Evil just another Zelda game, Halo just another FPS, Xenosaga just another J-RPG, Soul Calibur II just another fighting game, Viewtiful Joe just another 2D side-scroller, Mario Kart: DD just another kart racer, Disgaea just another strategy game, Voodoo Vince just another platformer, Crimson Skies just another flying game, blah blah blah... and there's no reason to buy or play games anymore'! Which I don't just disagree with, I think that's just STUPID!

It could be misleading. Since I'm on record and all, if I said it was an action game with strong H&S elements would that be better? I look a the game and I see a game that's focus is killing lots of respawning enemies, which is the bread and butter of H&S.

[Deathstroke]

Actually, he's right. You're way off on your definition of hack and slash. The term was first used to describe combat in real time RPG's which basically consisted of the same three sword strokes done over and over again. A game like Ninja Gaiden with an advanced combo engine is anything but hack and slash. You can go through the game doing the same combo's over and over but it'll get you killed when you go up against the bigger bosses.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Ok... Let's just ignore every game then, throw away our systems and play tiddlywinks all day.

I see that the games you mentioned are all considered the best of thier respective genres and I'm guessing that was intentional. I would disagree on Soul Calibur because I think that is just a fighting game that looks pretty and Mario is not the greatest platformer around anymore, but other then that your right. Each of those games are some of the best looking (and also best playing) games in their genres. I never wanted to give the impression that I though NG was not the best looking, and probably playing, 3-D hack n's slash around. I haven't played it yet so I am refraining from passing judgement on it jjust yet. Unlike "Game" I like to play a game before deciding how great it is and not go on a couple of numbers on some site.

Ninja Gaiden is still just a beat 'em up though, and while it may be great fun and provide many a wannabe ninja (me included) the oppertunity to slice up evil demons and paint the walls with their blood, it is still a hack n' slash game. In my book, those can't go that far. Devil May Cry: good, stylish, bloody action but I haven't played it in quite sometime. I will pick up RPGs and play through them again because their like reading a good book, but an action game is an action game and once you've learn the moves, killed hundreds of faceless demons, that's it. I know: I'm strange.





Mr. Fish that is a perfectly acceptable opinion to have, and I respect your honesty about which genre you give the most props to. The point of my post was twofold. You hit the nail on the head on the first point. It appears that NG may have just raised the bar for the action/adventure genre, and whether you like that genre or not it still deserves a certain amount of respect for doing so.

The other point that I wanted to make is actually the more important one imo. It seems like everyone has always held the Xbox to a higher standard than the other consoles because of the power under the hood. It is like, from day one, the Xbox has been expected to raise the bar on each and every genre or the particular game is labeled a failure. Now that the bar has been raised on this genre people are saying "well, it is only a hack-n-slash, so it doesn't matter".

[trebor]

Hmmm..it seems like a few concepts here need to be cleared up. Let me enlighten you poor confused souls with a handy analogy.

Let's take a very old, dried-out, crusty turd. (beat em' up genre)

Polish that turd with today's best machinery and make it the prettiest turd you've ever seen. (graphics)

Take that polished turd and put in on some "hot out of the oven" freshly baked, zesty Panini bread. (controls)

Add some fresh vegetables for color. (enemy AI)

Place a piece of gourmet cheese on there for substance. (cut-scenes)

and I give you

The Turd Sandwich (Ninja Gaiden)

Now, I'm sure that it is a great turd sandwich, in fact, one might even call it The Greatest Turd Sandwich of All Time. Hell...some of you actually like turd sandwhiches. But personally speaking here, I don't like turds. I don't care if you polish them up, put them on gourmet bread and label it # 1 - I still won't like turds. And that's how I feel about the Beat Em' Up genre - old, dried-out, crusty turds.

Let's look at Ninja Gaiden, shall we?

Bestest graphics evar!!11!!? Check!

Multiple button pressing combinations that equate to moves and combo attacks? Check!

Constantly pressing said button combinations in various settings, against various enemies, with cut scenes to flesh out a plot? Check!

The ability to gain more/improve weapons throughout the course of the game? Check!

Bosses? Check!

The inability to move on to certain map areas until a key or boss character is beaten? Check!

Been there done that, but with not as good graphics? Check!

Any questions?

[E.T.]

Any questions?

...I take it your experience with Ninja Garden was anything but positive?

[trebor]

...I take it your experience with Ninja Garden was anything but positive?

Well, in case you couldn't tell, I'm quite over the whole beat em' up genre, because they haven't fundamentally changed since Double Dragon. Yes, the graphics are better. Yes, there are more attacks and combos. Yes, there is plenty of blood, gore and T&A so teenieboppers will think it's cooler.

Yet ultimately, it is still mindless button-mashing to me.

[Nissian X]

Hmmm..it seems like a few concepts here need to be cleared up. Let me enlighten you poor confused souls with a handy analogy.

Let's take a very old, dried-out, crusty turd. (beat em' up genre)

Polish that turd with today's best machinery and make it the prettiest turd you've ever seen. (graphics)

Take that polished turd and put in on some "hot out of the oven" freshly baked, zesty Panini bread. (controls)

Add some fresh vegetables for color. (enemy AI)

Place a piece of gourmet cheese on there for substance. (cut-scenes)

and I give you

The Turd Sandwich (Ninja Gaiden)

Now, I'm sure that it is a great turd sandwich, in fact, one might even call it The Greatest Turd Sandwich of All Time. Hell...some of you actually like turd sandwhiches. But personally speaking here, I don't like turds. I don't care if you polish them up, put them on gourmet bread and label it # 1 - I still won't like turds. And that's how I feel about the Beat Em' Up genre - old, dried-out, crusty turds.

Let's look at Ninja Gaiden, shall we?

Bestest graphics evar!!11!!? Check!

Multiple button pressing combinations that equate to moves and combo attacks? Check!

Constantly pressing said button combinations in various settings, against various enemies, with cut scenes to flesh out a plot? Check!

The ability to gain more/improve weapons throughout the course of the game? Check!

Bosses? Check!

The inability to move on to certain map areas until a key or boss character is beaten? Check!

Been there done that, but with not as good graphics? Check!

Any questions?

LOL, according to review sites Ninja Gaiden was a good game and series, all getting 9.5, 9.7 and finally 7.5, the last one obviously wasn't as good but it got a fairly good score, all of these were released by the nes, and were all developed by Tecmo as well.

[yacobschlomo]

Well, in case you couldn't tell, I'm quite over the whole beat em' up genre, because they haven't fundamentally changed since Double Dragon. Yes, the graphics are better. Yes, there are more attacks and combos. Yes, there is plenty of blood, gore and T&A so teenieboppers will think it's cooler.

Yet ultimately, it is still mindless button-mashing to me.

Haven't fundamentally changed since Double Dragon? Have you played any of the best games that have come out in this genre lately?

[Deathstroke]

Well, in case you couldn't tell, I'm quite over the whole beat em' up genre, because they haven't fundamentally changed since Double Dragon. Yes, the graphics are better. Yes, there are more attacks and combos. Yes, there is plenty of blood, gore and T&A so teenieboppers will think it's cooler.

Yet ultimately, it is still mindless button-mashing to me.

Crank up the difficulty in Viewtiful Joe and try mindless button-mashing. It won't get you past the first boss even if you somehow manage to make it all the way up there.

["The Game"Evolution]

Hmmm..it seems like a few concepts here need to be cleared up. Let me enlighten you poor confused souls with a handy analogy.

Let's take a very old, dried-out, crusty turd. (beat em' up genre)

Polish that turd with today's best machinery and make it the prettiest turd you've ever seen. (graphics)

Take that polished turd and put in on some "hot out of the oven" freshly baked, zesty Panini bread. (controls)

Add some fresh vegetables for color. (enemy AI)

Place a piece of gourmet cheese on there for substance. (cut-scenes)

and I give you

The Turd Sandwich (Ninja Gaiden)

Now, I'm sure that it is a great turd sandwich, in fact, one might even call it The Greatest Turd Sandwich of All Time. Hell...some of you actually like turd sandwhiches. But personally speaking here, I don't like turds. I don't care if you polish them up, put them on gourmet bread and label it # 1 - I still won't like turds. And that's how I feel about the Beat Em' Up genre - old, dried-out, crusty turds.

Let's look at Ninja Gaiden, shall we?

Bestest graphics evar!!11!!? Check!

Multiple button pressing combinations that equate to moves and combo attacks? Check!

Constantly pressing said button combinations in various settings, against various enemies, with cut scenes to flesh out a plot? Check!

The ability to gain more/improve weapons throughout the course of the game? Check!

Bosses? Check!

The inability to move on to certain map areas until a key or boss character is beaten? Check!

Been there done that, but with not as good graphics? Check!

Any questions?

Thats if you can even get that far.But since you dont own an Xbox why is your two cents on this kick ass game worth our time again?

[Bob-the-Fish]

The other point that I wanted to make is actually the more important one imo. It seems like everyone has always held the Xbox to a higher standard than the other consoles because of the power under the hood. It is like, from day one, the Xbox has been expected to raise the bar on each and every genre or the particular game is labeled a failure. Now that the bar has been raised on this genre people are saying "well, it is only a hack-n-slash, so it doesn't matter".

Games should not be held to a higher standard simply because they appear on Xbox. Only games proclaimed to be the greatest game ev-ar should have that distinction.

Deathstroke pointed out that the term hack n' slash should not be applied to NG because that phrase was coined to describe old RPG style games that featured a single repetitive attack. I think the term has evolved since then along with the games it describes. Now, since games and designers have many more options, refined control systems, enhanced graphics capable of displaying numerous flashy combos, the hack n' slash style of gameplay has evloved. Maybe it's just me though.

I would say "well, it is only a hack-n-slash" but not "so it doesn't matter." I look at NG like the movie Spiderman from a few years back. It was just a throwaway comic book popcorn action movie, but it nailed the thing perfectly. So it became one of the most entertaining romps at the theater in recent memory. NG fills the same role, an action H&S game where you cut up hordes of baddies, monster bosses, jump around and pay little attention to the plot. But you get to do it in style!

[Bob-the-Fish]

Thats if you can even get that far.But since you dont own an Xbox why is your two cents on this kick ass game worth our time again?

Remember these words next time "Game" jumps in on a GC thread...

[The Prince of Darkness]

Any questions?

Yeah just one. Couldn't the same basic argument be used to describe practically any genre that one does not like? It sounds kinda like the way that I feel about platformers, but then along comes R&C and it has some "gourmet cheese" with it in the form of cool weapons...and I realize that I do still like platformers.

["The Game"Evolution]

Remember these words next time "Game" jumps in on a GC thread...

1st ammendment freedom of speech.

[trebor]

Yeah just one. Couldn't the same basic argument be used to describe practically any genre that one does not like? It sounds kinda like the way that I feel about platformers, but then along comes R&C and it has some "gourmet cheese" with it in the form of cool weapons...and I realize that I do still like platformers.

Yes. Of course, the best part about this thread is that I expressed my very own opinion that the beat em' up genre is old and tired and extremely boring. So, to me, Ninja Gaiden looks very derivative and formulaic, and ultimately lame. According to the Xbots in this thread, my opinion is wrong.

I just enjoy watching Xboyz® get their knickers all in a twist because someone would have the audacity to not agree with them that Ninja Gaiden is the bestest game evar!!!1!!

[trebor]

Haven't fundamentally changed since Double Dragon? Have you played any of the best games that have come out in this genre lately?

Yeah, have you? Think about it - aside from better graphics, 3D environments and more varied fighting moves, beat em' ups are essentially the same thing they have always been - pressing combinations of buttons. How fun.

Yes, there are cut-scenes to move the "plot" along and maybe a "fetch the key" quest here and there or a "beat the boss" fight, but it's still basically move your character from point A to B and kill everything that moves along the way. How innovative. :rolleyes:

[trebor]

Crank up the difficulty in Viewtiful Joe and try mindless button-mashing. It won't get you past the first boss even if you somehow manage to make it all the way up there.

I'm not saying that beat em' ups are not difficult or challenging - if that is your bag. But they don't nessessarily make you think either. The gameplay inherent in beat em' ups is all just trying different combinations of attacks against various enemies - that's about it.
They aren't like true fighting games, where it will be different every time you play against someone else. Or racing games for the same reason.

In a beat em' up, once you discover the move or weapon that the specific enemy is the most effected by, most likely, you will use that weapon or move against that enemy type for the rest of the game. It's all just very repetitive to me.

[Deathstroke]

On the contrary, you do have to spend some portion of your time thinking with the current generation of beat um' ups. Primarily because the engine for these games isn't as loose as it used to be. I loved Streets of Rage 2 back in the day but that seems more akin to the game type you're describing. And enemy AI is cranked up in Viewtiful Joe as you climb the difficulty levels. Tactics that were once effective are no longer effective in the harder difficulties. That's one of the reasons I asked whether anybody actually plays these games at the higher difficulty levels because trust me, tactics do change.

In the case of Ninja Gaiden where you can actively interact with the background, the strategy is heightened even more. It's a matter of zoning and positioning because otherwise, you get overwhelmed easily by the horde of enemies coming at you. There, is the strategy in these games because you can mindlessly buttonmash but all that's going to end up doing is making you get killed dozens of times until you get through due to sheer perseverence or luck.

[T.Tashi]

Hmmm..it seems like a few concepts here need to be cleared up. Let me enlighten you poor confused souls with a handy analogy.

Let's take a very old, dried-out, crusty turd. (beat em' up genre)

Polish that turd with today's best machinery and make it the prettiest turd you've ever seen. (graphics)

Take that polished turd and put in on some "hot out of the oven" freshly baked, zesty Panini bread. (controls)

Add some fresh vegetables for color. (enemy AI)

Place a piece of gourmet cheese on there for substance. (cut-scenes)

and I give you

The Turd Sandwich (Ninja Gaiden)

Now, I'm sure that it is a great turd sandwich, in fact, one might even call it The Greatest Turd Sandwich of All Time. Hell...some of you actually like turd sandwhiches. But personally speaking here, I don't like turds. I don't care if you polish them up, put them on gourmet bread and label it # 1 - I still won't like turds. And that's how I feel about the Beat Em' Up genre - old, dried-out, crusty turds.

Let's look at Ninja Gaiden, shall we?

Bestest graphics evar!!11!!? Check!

Multiple button pressing combinations that equate to moves and combo attacks? Check!

Constantly pressing said button combinations in various settings, against various enemies, with cut scenes to flesh out a plot? Check!

The ability to gain more/improve weapons throughout the course of the game? Check!

Bosses? Check!

The inability to move on to certain map areas until a key or boss character is beaten? Check!

Been there done that, but with not as good graphics? Check!

Any questions?
LOL! Fundamentally he's right from a game design point of view. While the gameplay elements have changed, essentially the formula's the same.

I just finished Rise to Honor and playing again on hard. Man it was great, if you're into Hong Kong action. I'll have a review for it soon.

[Darwin]

Yeah, have you? Think about it - aside from better graphics, 3D environments and more varied fighting moves, beat em' ups are essentially the same thing they have always been - pressing combinations of buttons. How fun.

Yes, there are cut-scenes to move the "plot" along and maybe a "fetch the key" quest here and there or a "beat the boss" fight, but it's still basically move your character from point A to B and kill everything that moves along the way. How innovative. :rolleyes:

I'll have to admit that Trebor has a point here ... at least I can see his point. And granted, I have preordered my copy of NG. But, he is right. Based on what the reviews have said, the gameplay is still based on the old formula set up by games made 15 - 20 years ago. NG must still be played in a rather linear fashion. The enemies in NG are beaten by learning their pre-defined patterns and then figuring out how to counter this. Granted, the combat appears to be complex, but is still based on beat-em-up tactics. It is still the "lone wolf" syndrome of you taking on hoards of enemies by yourself. There are still boss fights that happen at the end of levels. As purty, challenging, and fun this game appears to be, it is still based on these old formulas.

Had Ninja Giaden done something "outside the box", then perhaps it would be breaking this formula.

- How about a game where the enemies hunt you down, and aren't in predefined areas.
- How about nonlinear progression where actions early in the game effect events later on.
- How about having the main character fight along side other ninjas, where you have to learn to the strengths and weakenesses of your group and try to ballance them out.
- How about enemies having zone-specific damage areas, where they will move and attack different depending on what area you damage. How about that for the main character.
- Maybe a special artifact where the player could convert health into magic or vise versa, and the player would need to strategically decide where to sacrifice health to get more majic or vise versa.
- The more the main character suffers damage, the more powerful he becomes. And to beat some of the harder enemies, the player will have to risk it all by going to very low health in order to acheive the most powerful attacks.
- Perhaps the main character could learn to mind control the enemy and use their moves against the enemy's cohorts.

Anyway ... you get the idea of what I'm trying to say here. There doesn't seem to be any real innovation here in the core gameplay. It's a highly refined, and probably fun game, but it is still based on old rules. I can see how someone would not be interested a game like NG. One man's greatest game evarrr is another man's "turd sandwhich".

["The Game"Evolution]

I'll have to admit that Trebor has a point here ... at least I can see his point. And granted, I have preordered my copy of NG. But, he is right. Based on what the reviews have said, the gameplay is still based on the old formula set up by games made 15 - 20 years ago. NG must still be played in a rather linear fashion. The enemies in NG are beaten by learning their pre-defined patterns and then figuring out how to counter this. Granted, the combat appears to be complex, but is still based on beat-em-up tactics. It is still the "lone wolf" syndrome of you taking on hoards of enemies by yourself. There are still boss fights that happen at the end of levels. As purty, challenging, and fun this game appears to be, it is still based on these old formulas.

Had Ninja Giaden done something "outside the box", then perhaps it would be breaking this formula.

- How about a game where the enemies hunt you down, and aren't in predefined areas.
- How about nonlinear progression where actions early in the game effect events later on.
- How about having the main character fight along side other ninjas, where you have to learn to the strengths and weakenesses of your group and try to ballance them out.
- How about enemies having zone-specific damage areas, where they will move and attack different depending on what area you damage. How about that for the main character.
- Maybe a special artifact where the player could convert health into magic or vise versa, and the player would need to strategically decide where to sacrifice health to get more majic or vise versa.
- The more the main character suffers damage, the more powerful he becomes. And to beat some of the harder enemies, the player will have to risk it all by going to very low health in order to acheive the most powerful attacks.
- Perhaps the main character could learn to mind control the enemy and use their moves against the enemy's cohorts.

Anyway ... you get the idea of what I'm trying to say here. There doesn't seem to be any real innovation here in the core gameplay. It's a highly refined, and probably fun game, but it is still based on old rules. I can see how someone would not be interested a game like NG. One man's greatest game evarrr is another man's "turd sandwhich".

But I'm willing to bet in his eyes that his crappola logic aimed towards NG doesnt apply to that GC title though.I'll bet the farm on that.Not too many people are interested in games thats real tough to play.

[Darwin]

But I'm willing to bet in his eyes that his crappola logic aimed towards NG doesnt apply to that GC title though.I'll bet the farm on that.Not too many people are interested in games thats real tough to play.

In Trebor's defense, he didn't talk about NG's difficulty level or that he thought it might be too tough. His arguments were about the formula of the gameplay itself.

Besides, I know of games that I consider too tough to play, but are too tough because of cheap tactics. The last chapters of Project Gotham are too tough because the AI plays unfair. In fact, I consider PG to be the toughest racing game I've ever played ... and it was no fun trying to finish it.

[joquito]

Almost all games today are just glamorized versions of NES games. SO WHAT!!!!! I could try to use that argue against 98% of the games today. It doesn't hold water due to that fact. There is more than enough room in the market for all genres of games.

I could also break any game down to some arbitrary elementary school formula, proving that it is not advance enough to waste my intellect on. Some people should get a life.

I hate RPGs and RTS games but I will never post on threads hyping those type of games saying how crude or boring or whatever.

[sw33tjimmy]

Deathstroke? My arch-nemisis is defending an xbox game? It's like when austin powers finds out that dr. evil is his brother.

Slade, at first I thought you were crazy, but now I can clearly see your nuts. ;)

[Deathstroke]

Hehe, yeah. I was definately having one of those weeks.

I agree with pretty much what Joquito said and well, I'm dropping out of this conversation although with a parting shot. The arguments against this game are the same arguments used against the fighter genre and well, I guess to each his own. It takes a fan of the genre to appreciate the polish and Darwin, some of your suggestions would completely change a game like this.

["The Game"Evolution]

Hehe, yeah. I was definately having one of those weeks.

I agree with pretty much what Joquito said and well, I'm dropping out of this conversation although with a parting shot. The arguments against this game are the same arguments used against the fighter genre and well, I guess to each his own. It takes a fan of the genre to appreciate the polish and Darwin, some of your suggestions would completely change a game like this.

A great game is a great game regardlesss of what console its on.And Slade/Deatrstroke spoke out on it.The more old school a game is the better.(Well I always said he had more to say than Folken most of the time.)

[trebor]

In Trebor's defense, he didn't talk about NG's difficulty level or that he thought it might be too tough. His arguments were about the formula of the gameplay itself.


Thank you. You obviously get it, or at least you get my argument.

Here is a thought for some of the old timer's on the board...remember games like Pac-Man, Q-Bert, Frogger and Dig Dug? These games were all contemporaries to each other and they all contained fundamentally different forms of gameplay albeit with similar controls. That just doesn't happen anymore these days - every game has to have it's label or genre to fit in, so it will appeal to the target audience and therefore make money for publishers.

This is the idea I'm trying to get across to the board members - the more we lap up the same old', same old' from game developers, the more of the same old', same old' is what we get.

Xbots, ask yourselves this - in five years, when the next generation of consoles will have exponentially better graphics then the current generation of consoles, will Ninja Gaiden stand the test of time? Will Ninja Gaiden hold it's own against the next generation of beat em' ups? By then the graphics will be dated, and oh so 2004, so graphic superiority won't be an advantage anymore. You should also assume that the next generation of beat em' ups will have better control schemes too, to go along with their improved graphics.

Strip away all the graphics, controls and candy and what does NG have left? It follows the old, tired beat em' up formula.


OH...and Joquito, would this thread be as popular right now if I wasn't posting counter-views to this game? I mean, c'mon! This thread was posted in System Wars. You're pretty much asking for it by posting this thread here in the first place - which I commented on in the first post I put here. If you want an uninterupted Ninja Gaiden discussion, post one in the Xbox forum - I don't go there, EVER. Anything posted in System Wars is fair game.

[E.T.]

"This is the idea I'm trying to get across to the board members - the more we lap up the same old', same old' from game developers, the more of the same old', same old' is what we get."

True, true......& that has caused me to loose interest in almost all FPSs. Aside from tactical squad based shooters, this genre is all but dead to me.
One genre that still has variety is TBS & RPG games [for now anyway], & maybe an occasional sim.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

True, true......& that has caused me to loose interest in almost all FPSs. Aside from tactical squad based shooters, this genre is all but dead to me.
One genre that still has variety is TBS & RPG games [for now anyway], & maybe an occasional sim.

I'm burnt, too. I get sick of the same thing over and over and over...........

["The Game"Evolution]

Thank you. You obviously get it, or at least you get my argument.

Here is a thought for some of the old timer's on the board...remember games like Pac-Man, Q-Bert, Frogger and Dig Dug? These games were all contemporaries to each other and they all contained fundamentally different forms of gameplay albeit with similar controls. That just doesn't happen anymore these days - every game has to have it's label or genre to fit in, so it will appeal to the target audience and therefore make money for publishers.

This is the idea I'm trying to get across to the board members - the more we lap up the same old', same old' from game developers, the more of the same old', same old' is what we get.

Xbots, ask yourselves this - in five years, when the next generation of consoles will have exponentially better graphics then the current generation of consoles, will Ninja Gaiden stand the test of time? Will Ninja Gaiden hold it's own against the next generation of beat em' ups? By then the graphics will be dated, and oh so 2004, so graphic superiority won't be an advantage anymore. You should also assume that the next generation of beat em' ups will have better control schemes too, to go along with their improved graphics.

Strip away all the graphics, controls and candy and what does NG have left? It follows the old, tired beat em' up formula.


OH...and Joquito, would this thread be as popular right now if I wasn't posting counter-views to this game? I mean, c'mon! This thread was posted in System Wars. You're pretty much asking for it by posting this thread here in the first place - which I commented on in the first post I put here. If you want an uninterupted Ninja Gaiden discussion, post one in the Xbox forum - I don't go there, EVER. Anything posted in System Wars is fair game.

If this was a game on the GC you'd be singing a different tune.End of story.

[Darwin]

I just played about an hour and a half (maybe 2 hours) of Ninja Gaiden tonight. Fun game and very hard. However, I cannot help but describe NG as a supped-up Onimusha. I have not seen anything in the game that significantly differs from the formula set up by Onimusha.

[Darwin]

If this was a game on the GC you'd be singing a different tune.End of story.

Actually, GC does have a recently released beat-em-up type of game ... Viewtiful Joe. And VJ has more innovation than what I've seen from NG so far.

Here will be a good matchup when we've done playing NG. Which game is fundamentally better: VJ or NG?

["The Game"Evolution]

Actually, GC does have a recently released beat-em-up type of game ... Viewtiful Joe. And VJ has more innovation than what I've seen from NG so far.

Here will be a good matchup when we've done playing NG. Which game is fundamentally better: VJ or NG?

Right now Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox is hot.Not to mention got alot of solid kick ass reviews.I havent heard any GC games this year get any pop thats on the shelf right now.VJ is a good game but when you look at the 2003 GOTY winners you dont see VJ anywhere.Zelda pretty much overshadowed VJ totally.

Yes VJ indeed has alot going for it.But in the long run it was pretty much forgotten about.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Xbots, ask yourselves this - in five years, when the next generation of consoles will have exponentially better graphics then the current generation of consoles, will Ninja Gaiden stand the test of time? Will Ninja Gaiden hold it's own against the next generation of beat em' ups? By then the graphics will be dated, and oh so 2004, so graphic superiority won't be an advantage anymore. You should also assume that the next generation of beat em' ups will have better control schemes too, to go along with their improved graphics.

This is an excellent point. Recently, in one of the threads about backwards compatablilty, someone mentioned how the old PS1 games don't stand the test of time as well as the some N64 games. The reason for this is most of the PS1 games were for the most part were all about graphics. They looked great for the times but now many people think those games are unplayable. They don't offer enough to make it worth the jaggies, slow framerate and what not that didn't matter back then. And there are better versions available on the new consoles anyway. The N64 titles, at least the ones done by Nintendo, seem to stand up better because the focus was gameplay not graphics. The current crop of consoles has done pretty much the same thing as the PS1, focusing on graphics and not interesting gameplay ideas. Of course there are exceptions and those are the games we will be talking about for years to come.

In a few years NG certainly won't look bad because graphics can't really get a whole lot better. But gameplay-wise, will anyone still care?

[The Prince of Darkness]

This is an excellent point. Recently, in one of the threads about backwards compatablilty, someone mentioned how the old PS1 games don't stand the test of time as well as the some N64 games. The reason for this is most of the PS1 games were for the most part were all about graphics. They looked great for the times but now many people think those games are unplayable. They don't offer enough to make it worth the jaggies, slow framerate and what not that didn't matter back then. And there are better versions available on the new consoles anyway. The N64 titles, at least the ones done by Nintendo, seem to stand up better because the focus was gameplay not graphics. The current crop of consoles has done pretty much the same thing as the PS1, focusing on graphics and not interesting gameplay ideas. Of course there are exceptions and those are the games we will be talking about for years to come.

In a few years NG certainly won't look bad because graphics can't really get a whole lot better. But gameplay-wise, will anyone still care?

Look I don't know about any of you guys, but in five years when the new consoles are three years old I will not be playing any of these games that we are talking about. I mean is it commonplace for anyone else here to still be playing five year old titles or are you guys exclusively playing the new stuff that comes out. We may remember some of these games that seemed innovative at the time as great titles, but will we still be playing them? Doubtful in my case.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Look I don't know about any of you guys, but in five years when the new consoles are three years old I will not be playing any of these games that we are talking about. I mean is it commonplace for anyone else here to still be playing five year old titles or are you guys exclusively playing the new stuff that comes out. We may remember some of these games that seemed innovative at the time as great titles, but will we still be playing them? Doubtful in my case.

There are old games I still play. I pull out old RPGs (FF7, FF8, Xenogears, Chrono Cross) when I get borded with the new ones. I'm always up for a game of LoZ: OoT or some of the other N64 classics like Smash Bros and Jet Force Gemeni. I play Jedi Power Battles with my friends (which I still think is the funnest SW game out there). Tony Hawk 2 and Metal Gear Solid have seen some action recently.

Five years from now, I'll still be playing FFX and X-2 and all the other RPGs. I'm sure I'll be journeying through the world of Fable quite a few times. I may even be smashing cars and faces in classic GTA3 and Virtua Fighter 4 Evo. I still have a quite a few older games (read last year) that I haven't even started.

If they don't drop Live, I'm sure I'll be spending many hours with RS3 and Halo 2, even into the next generation. I still play the original Halo more then any other Xbox game (linked matches anyway).

There are just some games that for some reason, I latch onto and keep wanting to play again. The other day I was looking at something thinking how I should pick up FF8 for the sixth time, even though I have six other newer RPGs that I haven't finished. Action games, especially ones with