GT4 Delayed Until Fall, maybe 05 in Europe!

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

According to Eurogamer.net, Sony is reporting GT4 will be delayed until this Fall. Ouch!! However, there is a silver lining. The game previously thought to only support 4 cars online, will support 6 cars. On top of that, the game will support the HD, in what way was not mentioned. Eurogamer editors for some reason, think they may not see the game till 2005, but this wasn't stated by Sony themselves. No reason for the delay was given, but it was previously reported that Sony was having problems because of the complicated broadband infrastructure in Europe. Seeing that they are delaying the game worldwide, I would think there are more general problems.

I guess it ain't the end of the world for PS2 users, just another delay. It is kinda odd though, and really goes to show how hard it is to work on the PS2. GT3 released before PGR, and yet PGR2 will have released almost a year ahead of GT4. On top of that, PGR2 will has more online features, and supports 8 cars, GT4 only 6. To make matters worse or better, depending on which console you own. Codemasters has completely re-built their Toca series, new physics and graphics engine, new network code, new AI(which is hard to believe cause the AI was awesome in the first game). This game is the real and only true simulation racer on consoles. This time it won't be on the PS2, but will be on the PC and XBOX April 4th, so even they are going to beat GT4 to market. This game will support 21 cars offline, and up to 16 on XBOX LIVE. On top of that, the game will support a full damage model, that affects car performance. So much so that you can damage your car to the point where you can't finish the race, they showed pics of cars with missing wheels, sweet. PGR2 has visible damage, but it doesn't affect performance. GT4 won't have any damage modeling.
Toca, however is a different kind of game than GT4 or PGR2. It simulates over 30 real championship series, over real race courses, with only 35 race cars divided between classes. Also, of interest, PRD(Toca) did not support HDTV and was not widescreen, however TOCA2 will support both. So, it looks like for PS2 race fans, you gotta stick with GT3 or NFS Underground a little bit longer.

[AOE Enforcer]

According to Eurogamer.net, Sony is reporting GT4 will be delayed until this Fall. Ouch!! However, there is a silver lining. The game previously thought to only support 4 cars online, will support 6 cars. On top of that, the game will support the HD, in what way was not mentioned. Eurogamer editors for some reason, think they may not see the game till 2005, but this wasn't stated by Sony themselves. No reason for the delay was given, but it was previously reported that Sony was having problems because of the complicated broadband infrastructure in Europe. Seeing that they are delaying the game worldwide, I would think there are more general problems.

I guess it ain't the end of the world for PS2 users, just another delay. It is kinda odd though, and really goes to show how hard it is to work on the PS2. GT3 released before PGR, and yet PGR2 will have released almost a year ahead of GT4. On top of that, PGR2 will has more online features, and supports 8 cars, GT4 only 6. To make matters worse or better, depending on which console you own. Codemasters has completely re-built their Toca series, new physics and graphics engine, new network code, new AI(which is hard to believe cause the AI was awesome in the first game). This game is the real and only true simulation racer on consoles. This time it won't be on the PS2, but will be on the PC and XBOX April 4th, so even they are going to beat GT4 to market. This game will support 21 cars offline, and up to 16 on XBOX LIVE. On top of that, the game will support a full damage model, that affects car performance. So much so that you can damage your car to the point where you can't finish the race, they showed pics of cars with missing wheels, sweet. PGR2 has visible damage, but it doesn't affect performance. GT4 won't have any damage modeling.
Toca, however is a different kind of game than GT4 or PGR2. It simulates over 30 real championship series, over real race courses, with only 35 race cars divided between classes. Also, of interest, PRD(Toca) did not support HDTV and was not widescreen, however TOCA2 will support both. So, it looks like for PS2 race fans, you gotta stick with GT3 or NFS Underground a little bit longer.

This is bad news? Since Gran Turismo is the series that all other games are judged by and GT3 has yet to be bested by the "superior" Xbox and all of it's many, many racers-I don't have a problem with waiting for GT4. Over 500 cars, online play, custom soundtracks, best racing-game graphics ever....gee, you sound a bit jealous Daman. :p

No matter what you say, Project Gotham 2 looked damn sweet, but GT3 still looked & played better. The AI in Project Gotham 2 was horrific. It's like the damn AI didn't even realize you were playing! I'm so proud of you Daman! You've grown into a full-time Sony-hating bigot with less knowledge of what you are talking about now than ever before in the past! You go boy!

[T.Tashi]

According to Eurogamer.net, Sony is reporting GT4 will be delayed until this Fall. Ouch!! However, there is a silver lining. The game previously thought to only support 4 cars online, will support 6 cars. On top of that, the game will support the HD, in what way was not mentioned. Eurogamer editors for some reason, think they may not see the game till 2005, but this wasn't stated by Sony themselves. No reason for the delay was given, but it was previously reported that Sony was having problems because of the complicated broadband infrastructure in Europe. Seeing that they are delaying the game worldwide, I would think there are more general problems.

I guess it ain't the end of the world for PS2 users, just another delay. It is kinda odd though, and really goes to show how hard it is to work on the PS2. GT3 released before PGR, and yet PGR2 will have released almost a year ahead of GT4. On top of that, PGR2 will has more online features, and supports 8 cars, GT4 only 6. To make matters worse or better, depending on which console you own. Codemasters has completely re-built their Toca series, new physics and graphics engine, new network code, new AI(which is hard to believe cause the AI was awesome in the first game). This game is the real and only true simulation racer on consoles. This time it won't be on the PS2, but will be on the PC and XBOX April 4th, so even they are going to beat GT4 to market. This game will support 21 cars offline, and up to 16 on XBOX LIVE. On top of that, the game will support a full damage model, that affects car performance. So much so that you can damage your car to the point where you can't finish the race, they showed pics of cars with missing wheels, sweet. PGR2 has visible damage, but it doesn't affect performance. GT4 won't have any damage modeling.
Toca, however is a different kind of game than GT4 or PGR2. It simulates over 30 real championship series, over real race courses, with only 35 race cars divided between classes. Also, of interest, PRD(Toca) did not support HDTV and was not widescreen, however TOCA2 will support both. So, it looks like for PS2 race fans, you gotta stick with GT3 or NFS Underground a little bit longer.
That Xbox must be a b!tch to work on... Fable, Ninja Gaiden, Sudeki, Halo 2... I mean Halo was a launch title. Geesh.:rolleyes:

[Bob-the-Fish]

That Xbox must be a b!tch to work on... Fable, Ninja Gaiden, Sudeki, Halo 2... I mean Halo was a launch title. Geesh.:rolleyes:

But longer delays for Xbox games = better games remember? ;)

[Glockstar]

That Xbox must be a b!tch to work on... Fable, Ninja Gaiden, Sudeki, Halo 2... I mean Halo was a launch title. Geesh.:rolleyes:

Well, Fable and Halo 2 are absolutely HUGE games. And I don't mean sales, hype, or expectations. These two games are the most ambitious games in the history of consoles.

Ninja Gaiden and Sudeki... I don't know what's up with their long delays. :confused:

With regards to GT4...
Six racers?!? That's it?!? And that's up from four?!? That's dissapointing.
Now all I need to hear is that the game will allow for dial-up users to race online as well... :rolleyes:

[Deathstroke]

That Xbox must be a b!tch to work on... Fable, Ninja Gaiden, Sudeki, Halo 2... I mean Halo was a launch title. Geesh.:rolleyes:

The funny thing is that isn't even half of that list. You forgot Psychonauts. And Daman, what happened to Strident and Duality anyway. :D

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Wow,

I must have really struck a nerve right there guys. Sorry, lol! First, someone said GT3 was better than PGR2? Come on, you can't be serious. No damage model, no online play? Someone said GT3 had better AI than PGR2, actually they both had bad AI. The only console racers with really good AI, and NO RUBBERBANDING, no CORNER CRASHING, are MotoGP2 and ProRaceDriver. Just about all the others have insufferable corner crashing and rubber banding AI, especially GT3. Which makes online racing even more important, though with the wrong racers online can often be worse. Project Gotham is however a bit more arcadey than Sega GT, Pro Race Driver, and GT3, so the driving in single player is a bit more wild.

What is really funny is I wasn't cracking on GT4, I was just reporting it had been delayed and the reasons why, but you guys are so sensitive with your franchises. Even to the point where instead of GT4 against other racers, you guys try and compare them to FPS or Fable for cryin out loud.

As far as which game is the best you guys may like GT4 because it has 500 cars, I guess this is the ONLY category that GT4 leads in, it does have the most cars. However, if TOCA RACE CAR Driver 2, turns out like the developers say, it will be the first and best true racing simulation that is car based, and it will be the most important game on XBOX LIVE for racing fans. And, sorry it only has 35 cars. But with 12-16 online racers, true simulation physics, true damage model, championship based series, and real world tracks, this will be the kind of game you can set up online leagues with, just like we did with Motogp2. You can't do that with GT4, and we don't have to wait till XMAS hopefully. Only April, :)

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

The funny thing is that isn't even half of that list. You forgot Psychonauts. And Daman, what happened to Strident and Duality anyway. :D

That's a very good question, these were korean based games or development, and I haven't heard anything, company probably went under. Oh well, but I doubt they are being held up in development, like StarCraft Ghost and Malice are because of the publishers insistence that the XBOX version can't ship until the PS2 version are ready. Bad thing is, GT4 is finished, but they can't get it running properly online, I know it hurts.

[Bob-the-Fish]

What is really funny is I wasn't cracking on GT4, I was just reporting it had been delayed and the reasons why

Really? Then how do you explain this:
"I guess it ain't the end of the world for PS2 users, just another delay. It is kinda odd though, and really goes to show how hard it is to work on the PS2."
"To make matters worse or better, depending on which console you own."
"So, it looks like for PS2 race fans, you gotta stick with GT3 or NFS Underground a little bit longer."
You're reputation as an Xbot preceeds you my friend. It's hard to make thinly vailed comments like those and not have people pick up on it.

Anyway, I'm not much into racers myself so I don't really care that much about GT4 (or GT3 or PGR2 or NASCAR whatever) I find all the talk about "damage modeling" interesting because if I was racing a car, I'd want it to look nice not all beat up because some cpu car decides to turn right in front of me. If the damage has no effect on actual performance, why is it so essential? In the new game you mentioned where car performance is altered by damage it makes sense, but for arcade or car show racers why does it matter do much?

I was thinking about getting PGR2 though when the price drops. From what I played, it was decent and I have a buddy that loves racers so we could go head to head, but I'd have to convince him to get it. He wasn't to impressed with it and is stuck on NFS:U at the moment.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Really? Then how do you explain this:
"I guess it ain't the end of the world for PS2 users, just another delay. It is kinda odd though, and really goes to show how hard it is to work on the PS2."
"To make matters worse or better, depending on which console you own."
"So, it looks like for PS2 race fans, you gotta stick with GT3 or NFS Underground a little bit longer."
You're reputation as an Xbot preceeds you my friend. It's hard to make thinly vailed comments like those and not have people pick up on it.

Anyway, I'm not much into racers myself so I don't really care that much about GT4 (or GT3 or PGR2 or NASCAR whatever) I find all the talk about "damage modeling" interesting because if I was racing a car, I'd want it to look nice not all beat up because some cpu car decides to turn right in front of me. If the damage has no effect on actual performance, why is it so essential? In the new game you mentioned where car performance is altered by damage it makes sense, but for arcade or car show racers why does it matter do much?

I was thinking about getting PGR2 though when the price drops. From what I played, it was decent and I have a buddy that loves racers so we could go head to head, but I'd have to convince him to get it. He wasn't to impressed with it and is stuck on NFS:U at the moment.

I love to impart my own stinging opinions against the PS2, however what I said was just point of fact, not really a barb. I said it is not the end of the world, unlike others saying a Halo2 delay or a Fable delay is going to ruin the XBOX. I said it is hard to work on the PS2, everyone knows this. Just today Koei announced Crimson Skies2 will be delayed, they switched over to PS2 from XBOX, citing development problems. And how is saying you gotta stick with GT3 and NFS Undergound a bit longer an insult, again I love to laugh at things like this, but in this case I think maybe it was the way you interpreted what I wrote.

As far as damage models go, you are right, what good is it if it doesn't affect performance. In PGR2 it doesn't necessarily affect performance, but it does affect your kudos score, and its kinda cool too. So you can race a clean race, and get extra points for a clean race, on or offline, also as you race the more you crash the more kudos you lose, so for people who care it is a way to steer people towards clean racing.

However, I personally can't wait until Toca2 comes out. Because that will affect performance or one's ability to continue. In PGR2 online, as you race to a corner, people will try and angle you so that they can use you as a cushion. I try and take the corner tight and get my arse around the corner before that happens. Usually, you will see their car go careening straight into the wall, but they bounce off and continue racing. In Toca, they will either go straight into a sand pit, and effectively be out of the race, or go 100mph into a wall which will totally damage their car, either way they will be out the race.

In PGR2 I've started hosting rooms in exhibition mode, wtih 5 or more laps, using the longer courses. The increased laps usually minimize any crashing on the first lap, the longer courses allow the better drivers to separate, and my hosting the room allows me to kick out anyone driving like animals. However, if you enter any normal room online, it is just a crash fest.

[Glockstar]

Just today Koei announced Crimson Skies2 will be delayed...

Whoa! Whoa!
You got to edit that sheet, man! To say that Crimson Skies is coming to the PS2... that's just blasphemus!

What Daman meant to say was Crimson Sea. Crimson Sea. Just an honest mistake folks, I'm sure. Never you mind. Nothing to see here.

In PGR2 I've started hosting rooms in exhibition mode, wtih 5 or more laps, using the longer courses. The increased laps usually minimize any crashing on the first lap, the longer courses allow the better drivers to separate, and my hosting the room allows me to kick out anyone driving like animals. However, if you enter any normal room online, it is just a crash fest.

Huh huh, yeah.

The first turn of every race always ends looking like a parking lot. (Not unlike MGP, eh?)
And it cracks me up everytime! I love it. Hee HEE!

I NEED ROAD RASH ONLINE!

[The Buzz]

This is bad news? Since Gran Turismo is the series that all other games are judged by and GT3 has yet to be bested by the "superior" Xbox and all of it's many, many racers-I don't have a problem with waiting for GT4. Over 500 cars, online play, custom soundtracks, best racing-game graphics ever....gee, you sound a bit jealous Daman. :p

No matter what you say, Project Gotham 2 looked damn sweet, but GT3 still looked & played better. The AI in Project Gotham 2 was horrific. It's like the damn AI didn't even realize you were playing! I'm so proud of you Daman! You've grown into a full-time Sony-hating bigot with less knowledge of what you are talking about now than ever before in the past! You go boy!

"Hypocrites" would say...PS2 delay's are good...Xbox delays bad...I hope that's not what YOU are implying...

As far as GT3 looking and playing better...that's debatable...I have both...and like them both for different reasons.

[The Prince of Darkness]

"Hypocrites" would say...PS2 delay's are good...Xbox delays bad...I hope that's not what YOU are implying...

As far as GT3 looking and playing better...that's debatable...I have both...and like them both for different reasons.

I would bet that his alter-ego is probably debating that with him right now.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

"Hypocrites" would say...PS2 delay's are good...Xbox delays bad...I hope that's not what YOU are implying...

As far as GT3 looking and playing better...that's debatable...I have both...and like them both for different reasons.

Exactly, the only reason why I even bothered posting this was to annoy all the doom and gloom people who keep pointing out, "ha ha Ninja Gaiden is delayed...Halo2 is delayed...Fable is delayed...etc." And also just to post the news in case people didn't hear it. For myself, I don't really bother much with delays. I would rather that Halo2 is delayed until XMAS. Halo2 is a XMAS release or Holiday release, that is when it will have the maximum effect and that is when I will have the most time to enjoy it. Plus I would rather a game is delayed and perfected, than released as a shoddy product.

As far as you liking PGR2 and GT3 for different reasons, I have a different spin. I like PGR2, PGR, SegaGT and GT3 for the same reasons, and I dislike PGR2, PGR, SegaGT and GT3 for the same reasons. To me, all of these games are really the same. They are street car based, semi-simulation racers, all with bad AI. I like them for what they are, all of them have quality production values, beautiful graphics, good replay value, but they are not the kind of championship racing franchise I would have hoped to have seen on consoles. MotoGP is so far the only real championship series online for XBOX, we don't have Indycar, no F1, not even Nascar Online. TOCA RACER2 will finally be the first car based championship series racer online with simulated race cars of equal classes, real race courses and championships, pitting, qualifying, series points, damage, in-car cockpit view, over 20 cars(16online), simulation physics and AI, racing that is all skill based. So for me TOCA will be a completely different breed and be a move closer to the kinds of racers available on the PC.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Exactly, the only reason why I even bothered posting this was to annoy all the doom and gloom people who keep pointing out, "ha ha Ninja Gaiden is delayed...Halo2 is delayed...Fable is delayed...etc." And also just to post the news in case people didn't hear it. For myself, I don't really bother much with delays.

I agree a game should be a finished and fine tuned entity when it hits the shelves. I haven't been all that bother about delays in the past, but the fact that almost all the premium titles for the Box were delayed has got me paying more attention to it. Half those games were supposed to be out last year. That means resources that could be dedicated to developing new ideas, games and what not are stuck on the same game for a lot longer then expected. That means less games in the long run. Looking at Halo, the fact that Bungie has a total of one quality game to thier name in two and a half years is not good. Of course quality is better then quantity but if you wait too long and spend so much time on the same game, with the speed at which this industry develops, when said game hits it can often be overshadowed by newer games developed with new technology.

Or even worse, people just don't care any more. I certainly don't think this will happen to most of the Box's upcoming titles, but it is something to keep in mind.


I would rather that Halo2 is delayed until XMAS. Halo2 is a XMAS release or Holiday release, that is when it will have the maximum effect and that is when I will have the most time to enjoy it. Plus I would rather a game is delayed and perfected, than released as a shoddy product.

I hope you're right, but if last holiday season is any indication, a holiday release is no longer a guarentee of stellar sales. With the amount of games that get pumped into the season these daysacross all three platforms, great games without "2" or Mario in their name get pushed under the table. That's bad for us because the indusrty will take it to mean that no one wants these titles and concentrate on pushing out one sequal or rehash after another. If Fable gets blown away by Halo 2 is that good for the Xbox? I think not...

[T.Tashi]

Whoa! Whoa!
You got to edit that sheet, man! To say that Crimson Skies is coming to the PS2... that's just blasphemus!

What Daman meant to say was Crimson Sea. Crimson Sea. Just an honest mistake folks, I'm sure. Never you mind. Nothing to see here.



Huh huh, yeah.

The first turn of every race always ends looking like a parking lot. (Not unlike MGP, eh?)
And it cracks me up everytime! I love it. Hee HEE!

I NEED ROAD RASH ONLINE!
Road Rash was the last racer I played with any real intensity or competitiveness... *sniffle* 3DO.. wah :(