Bad Sony! Bad, bad Sony!

[trebor]

Well, anyone who reads my latest posts carefully enough (or at all) probably have noticed how I hate Sony with a passion. They consistantly overstate what their future products can do, hype it beyond compare, and then right before they release them, Sony will cut features and not lower the price. Very much like how they cut the CD-R/MP3 reading capablilities of the PSX, right before release, but kept the same $900 pricetag for it in Japan.

Read this...


Sony Copies Nintendo's GBA/GCN Connectivity Strategy

According to The Magic Box, Sony plans on taking a cue from Nintendo's playbook by pushing connectivity features between its already hugely successful PlayStation 2 and its upcoming PlayStation Portable (PSP) in the same way Nintendo has tried to capitalize on the success of the Game Boy by connecting it to the GameCube.

Gamers can expect a similar set of promised connectivity uses and innovations as they're used to hearing in the context of Nintendo's consoles, only now applied to the Sony systems. Specifically mentioned was that players might save the progress of a PSP game and continue the adventure on the PS2 version of the same game (an idea long-touted by Nintendo, but never fully implemented in a game).

Sony also indicated that a PS2/PSP hardware bundle would be sold.

While not related to connectivity, the report also indicated that Sony is backing away from commitments to MP3 playback and wireless networking support. (js)
Source: The Magic Box

http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1077238702

You see that? Sony is already cutting features from the PSP - MP3 playback and wireless networking support. This is so totally like Sony to do - I bet they won't lower the price though. Oh no! Better not do that, because consumers might benefit a little bit.

Also, notice how Sony is completely ripping off Nintendo's "connectivity" dealio"!! I just can't wait for all the wondeful videogame sites, that were bashing Nintendo for that concept, to do a 180 and say connectivity is a great idea.

I also can't wait for posters on this forum who have bashed the GBA/GC connectivity to backpeddle because of the PSP/PS2 connectivity.

[Bob-the-Fish]

You see that? Sony is already cutting features from the PSP - MP3 playback and wireless networking support. This is so totally like Sony to do - I bet they won't lower the price though. Oh no! Better not do that, because consumers might benefit a little bit.

Also, notice how Sony is completely ripping off Nintendo's "connectivity" dealio"!! I just can't wait for all the wondeful videogame sites, that were bashing Nintendo for that concept, to do a 180 and say connectivity is a great idea.

I also can't wait for posters on this forum who have bashed the GBA/GC connectivity to backpeddle because of the PSP/PS2 connectivity.

The biggest reason I think people bash connectivity in the GC is it seems like Nintendo wants that to substitute for online and system link gaming. If they had connectivity and showed the slightest bit of interest in online play, I don't think you would hear so much griping.

As for the hype machine, it's the same with every company especially in the gaming industy. They prance around declaring how fantastic the specs or features on their latest piece of hardware or game. Then it hits the stores and people realize that it was just hype. Nintendo pushes connectivity all over the place, but is it actually used in anything? The only game that's really made the GBA have any impact on gameplay is FFCC. Other then that, it's just a gimmick. I went into Best Buy the other day and they didn't even have the link cords in the store.

So it remains to be seen what Sony actually plans to do with their connectivity. If they manage to make it have an impact on gameplay, that would be a step ahead of Nintendo. (If they actually do it at all...)

[trebor]

The biggest reason I think people bash connectivity in the GC is it seems like Nintendo wants that to substitute for online and system link gaming. If they had connectivity and showed the slightest bit of interest in online play, I don't think you would hear so much griping.

As for the hype machine, it's the same with every company especially in the gaming industy. They prance around declaring how fantastic the specs or features on their latest piece of hardware or game. Then it hits the stores and people realize that it was just hype. Nintendo pushes connectivity all over the place, but is it actually used in anything? The only game that's really made the GBA have any impact on gameplay is FFCC. Other then that, it's just a gimmick. I went into Best Buy the other day and they didn't even have the link cords in the store.

So it remains to be seen what Sony actually plans to do with their connectivity. If they manage to make it have an impact on gameplay, that would be a step ahead of Nintendo. (If they actually do it at all...)

It amazes me how this thread, which has almost nothing to do with Nintendo, gets turned into "Nintendo can't do anything right, but Sony should be able to improve Nintendo's ideas" thread. Doesn't the fact that Sony is the #1 in the industry mean that Sony should be coming up with new ideas instead of copying others? Just a thought.

But this isn't about Nintendo! This is about how Sony is ripping off consumers left and right and people still lap up their products anyways!

[no.1gamer]

Also, notice how Sony is completely ripping off Nintendo's "connectivity" dealio"!! I just can't wait for all the wondeful videogame sites, that were bashing Nintendo for that concept, to do a 180 and say connectivity is a great idea.

Oh damn. Connectivity is one feature that should NOT be copied.

But, yes you're absolutely right trebor! Let's you and me just sit here and read what everyone posts about how Sony+Connectivity=great idea all the sudden. That's so true it's funny. Then eventually just like you said we can find additional reading on videogame sites.

Alright trebor let's wait and see how great of an idea Sony has with its connectivity feature by reading all the posts...

[The Prince of Darkness]

It amazes me how this thread, which has almost nothing to do with Nintendo, gets turned into "Nintendo can't do anything right, but Sony should be able to improve Nintendo's ideas" thread. Doesn't the fact that Sony is the #1 in the industry mean that Sony should be coming up with new ideas instead of copying others? Just a thought.



Yeah and isn't up to both industry leaders to come up with new ideas like...cough cough...putting a harddrive...cough...in your console...cough cough instead of letting the newcomer set the standard.

[no.1gamer]

Yeah and isn't up to both industry leaders to come up with new ideas like...cough cough...putting a harddrive...cough...in your console...cough cough instead of letting the newcomer set the standard.

Why do the Xbots keep saying this? The hard drive is not a standard! It's a gimmick! And none of the next generation consoles will probably have one! That's not a standard!

[trebor]

Yeah and isn't up to both industry leaders to come up with new ideas like...cough cough...putting a harddrive...cough...in your console...cough cough instead of letting the newcomer set the standard.

Thanks for bringing that up, because...cough cough...putting a harddrive...cough...into a machine with PC components...cough..cough..cough...has been done since the 80's. That's what I call...cough..copying someone elses idea.

Or how about...cough...adding in a harddrive to the Xbox...cough cough...and taking it out for Xbox2...cough.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Thanks for bringing that up, because...cough cough...putting a harddrive...cough...into a machine with PC components...cough..cough..cough...has been done since the 80's. That's what I call...cough..copying someone elses idea.

Or how about...cough...adding in a harddrive to the Xbox...cough cough...and taking it out for Xbox2...cough.

That's where our opinions differ. Even though the Xbox is the closest console to a PC it is still considered a console, and putting a harddrive in a game console is an original idea.

As far as the Xbox 2 goes I will bet you that they put one in, and if they don't, then I'm not buying it.

[Xguy]

<i>I love Sony
Sony loves me
were a happy gaming family
with over promised features
and a high price tag to boot
won't you say you love them too?</i>

Man trebor...you are dead on, and it's not just gaming products. When I worked for the electronic retail corporation that I have mentioned in previous posts, I ran many high level, top secret projects in which that I had to sign nondisclosure agreements to be involved in. these were projects that involed Sony's new products taht were not available yet, and in most cases, would not be available for 6 months to a year. In <i>every case</i> the product that we saw go into the stores differed from the product that we thought we were getting. To your point trebor, in each case the feaures were scaled back time and again until the product was release, and more to your point, the price tag <i>never</i> changed a cent.

[trebor]

That's where our opinions differ. Even though the Xbox is the closest console to a PC it is still considered a console, and putting a harddrive in a game console is an original idea.

It's not that original.

Did M$ invent the harddrive? No. Are they the first ones to use it in conjunction with a processor, RAM and electricity? No. Did all M$ do is take existing technology and put an ever so slight twist on it? Yes.

Whereas with Nintendo, was there any such thing as force feedback before they used it? No. Were they the first to use it? Yes. Did they invent it? Yes.

Is there a difference between true innovation and using other peoples ideas? Yes.


As far as the Xbox 2 goes I will bet you that they put one in, and if they don't, then I'm not buying it.

That's what I like to hear!

But, tell me what you think about Sony cutting Bluetooth and MP3 from the PSP while most likely keeping the same pricepoint. Let's actually talk about the point of this thread for a moment.

[trebor]

<i>I love Sony
Sony loves me
were a happy gaming family
with over promised features
and a high price tag to boot
won't you say you love them too?</i>

Man trebor...you are dead on, and it's not just gaming products. When I worked for the electronic retail corporation that I have mentioned in previous posts, I ran many high level, top secret projects in which that I had to sign nondisclosure agreements to be involved in. these were projects that involed Sony's new products taht were not available yet, and in most cases, would not be available for 6 months to a year. In <i>every case</i> the product that we saw go into the stores differed from the product that we thought we were getting. To your point trebor, in each case the feaures were scaled back time and again until the product was release, and more to your point, the price tag <i>never</i> changed a cent.

This is *exactly* the point I'm trying to make with this thread.

[thug]

As far as the Xbox 2 goes I will bet you that they put one in, and if they don't, then I'm not buying it.

I sure hope they put one in Xbox 2, I'll be disappointed if they don't and it could effect whether I buy one or not. I love having the hard drive in the Xbox just to not have to deal with memory cards anymore. Not to mention some of the other benefits.

I feel like Sony is becoming the Madden football of the consoles. Not because EA claims that the next Madden will do something and then not follow through, but because I don't think it matters what the heck Sony says the PS3 or PSP will do or not do...people will buy it like crazy just like Madden. I'm slowly turning against Sony myself. I sold my PS2 because it sat since I finished GTA Vice City and no game since that or future games interested me. I gave up hope on buying a PSP because I don't trust the late 2004 launch date and it doesn't seem like Sony can make up their mind on the features. The PSP promises remind me so much of the online/hard drive promises made for the PS2 at launch, which are finally getting finalized four years later (the hard drive anyway, online was only two or three years late). My console of choice is the Xbox, my handheld of choice is of course the GBA SP (got a couple of months ago...love it. Advance Wars rules). That's all I have to say.

[Bob-the-Fish]

It amazes me how this thread, which has almost nothing to do with Nintendo, gets turned into "Nintendo can't do anything right, but Sony should be able to improve Nintendo's ideas" thread. Doesn't the fact that Sony is the #1 in the industry mean that Sony should be coming up with new ideas instead of copying others? Just a thought.

But this isn't about Nintendo! This is about how Sony is ripping off consumers left and right and people still lap up their products anyways!

I fail to see how putting "Sony is completely ripping off Nintendo's "connectivity" dealio!!" in bold "isn't about Nintendo." Sure sounds like you're comparing the two, but that's just me.

I don't know what Sony thinks the demand for the PSP will be, but I doubt it will be anything near the GBA. Unless they can get some amazing launch titles from well known developers or tie it in with future PS2/PS3 games (a la "connectivity")

The thing is, people cry and moan about how the companies won't tell them anything about their systems and games. If they do give a list of possible features people suddenly think they are set in stone. As far as I know, the price of the PSP has not been announced anyway. Hype mags and sites have rumored that it will be $200-$300 and Sony announced long ago they wanted to release it at a competitive price with the GBA, which I would assume would be between $100 and $150. That's a lot of middle ground.

I certainly won't be buying one right when it comes out unless it's under $150 no matter what's on it (or in it). Just like I didn't buy a PS2 till it dropped.

[trebor]

The thing is, people cry and moan about how the companies won't tell them anything about their systems and games. If they do give a list of possible features people suddenly think they are set in stone. As far as I know, the price of the PSP has not been announced anyway. Hype mags and sites have rumored that it will be $200-$300 and Sony announced long ago they wanted to release it at a competitive price with the GBA, which I would assume would be between $100 and $150. That's a lot of middle ground.

Well, that's just it, isn't it? Sony is usually all too eager to brag about what features will be in their upcoming products as means of generating hype.

Look at what happened to the Dreamcast - it came out well before the PS2 and should have gained a considerable following in that time. But what happened was Sony was able to get people to hold out on buying a console until the PS2 was released and you know how that effected the Dreamcast. It was all based on their generation of hype!

Look at how sites like Gamespy were so quick to write editorials on how "the PSP will rule the world!!!" and such and quick to condemn Nintendo for the concept of having duel screens with the DS. I wonder if Gamespy will come out with a "Ooops we were wrong about the PSP. Sorry." article - I highly doubt it. Yet people read those sites and make judgements based on what they read - even if it happens to be misleading. And Sony is the starting point for all this misleading information! It isn't industry rumor - it's direct from them!

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ends up removing the Cell technology in the upcoming PS3 that we have all been hearing so much about. Do you understand where I'm going with this mode of thought?

[The Prince of Darkness]

It's not that original.

Did M$ invent the harddrive? No. Are they the first ones to use it in conjunction with a processor, RAM and electricity? No. Did all M$ do is take existing technology and put an ever so slight twist on it? Yes.

Whereas with Nintendo, was there any such thing as force feedback before they used it? No. Were they the first to use it? Yes. Did they invent it? Yes.

Is there a difference between true innovation and using other peoples ideas? Yes.



That's what I like to hear!

But, tell me what you think about Sony cutting Bluetooth and MP3 from the PSP while most likely keeping the same pricepoint. Let's actually talk about the point of this thread for a moment.


M'kay. I think that I am not surprised by that at all. Sony reeled everyone in with a pretty darned good console in the PS1. Then they took a frickin' million preorders,along with people's hard-earned money, and then only released 1/2 million units on launch day. Then to make matters worse I would be shocked if they were not lying when they said that there were production problems with the PS2 that caused such a shortage. Just a cheap ploy to raise the demand(as if the console even needed any more hype attached to it). I feel the same way as you about Sony. I definately think that they are the most underhanded of the three.

[AOE Enforcer]

Well, anyone who reads my latest posts carefully enough (or at all) probably have noticed how I hate Sony with a passion. They consistantly overstate what their future products can do, hype it beyond compare, and then right before they release them, Sony will cut features and not lower the price. Very much like how they cut the CD-R/MP3 reading capablilities of the PSX, right before release, but kept the same $900 pricetag for it in Japan.

Read this...


http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1077238702

You see that? Sony is already cutting features from the PSP - MP3 playback and wireless networking support. This is so totally like Sony to do - I bet they won't lower the price though. Oh no! Better not do that, because consumers might benefit a little bit.

Also, notice how Sony is completely ripping off Nintendo's "connectivity" dealio"!! I just can't wait for all the wondeful videogame sites, that were bashing Nintendo for that concept, to do a 180 and say connectivity is a great idea.

I also can't wait for posters on this forum who have bashed the GBA/GC connectivity to backpeddle because of the PSP/PS2 connectivity.

...I have to agree with Prince of Darkness on this one. I don't think that connectivity is a bad idea per-se, but the way and extent to which NIntendo has implemented it isn't worth getting excited about, nor is it a suitable substitue for the lack of online and system-link gaming. All of which is what Nintendo has used it for. I have a GBA, a link cable, a Gamecube and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. Yet, I have not used the lik features at all yet.

Now as far as the PS2/PSP connectivity is concerned, if it allows me to save a game on one system and transfer that save to the other and continue playing exactly where I left off, then it is a good idea. If I can use a standard USB cable that will most likely be included with the PSP, that is a good idea as well. If I can hook my PSP through the USB cable to the PS2 and play my PSP games on the PS2, then that too is a good idea.

The PSP is a radically different beast than the Gameboy Advance. I dearly love my GBA as it allows me to continue to play great, side-scrolling games like Metroid Fusion & Zero Mission that I otherwise would not get to play. The PSP on the other hand is basically a miniaturized PS2 in a portable form. It is a high-end electronics device more along the lines of a PDA than a mini-handheld gaming machine.

Whether or not the system includes Bluetooth wireless or MP3 playback doesn't concern me. I have YET to listen to a single CD on any of my gaming systems and I don't plan on doing anything like that now with a portable. :rolleyes:

But getting back to the main gist of your thread which is that you hate Sony, that's your perogative. And it's fully in your right not to support the company by not spending money on them. But if Sony actually implements true connectivity between the PSP and PS2, what is your problem with that?

[AOE Enforcer]

Well, that's just it, isn't it? Sony is usually all too eager to brag about what features will be in their upcoming products as means of generating hype.

Look at what happened to the Dreamcast - it came out well before the PS2 and should have gained a considerable following in that time. But what happened was Sony was able to get people to hold out on buying a console until the PS2 was released and you know how that effected the Dreamcast. It was all based on their generation of hype!

Look at how sites like Gamespy were so quick to write editorials on how "the PSP will rule the world!!!" and such and quick to condemn Nintendo for the concept of having duel screens with the DS. I wonder if Gamespy will come out with a "Ooops we were wrong about the PSP. Sorry." article - I highly doubt it. Yet people read those sites and make judgements based on what they read - even if it happens to be misleading. And Sony is the starting point for all this misleading information! It isn't industry rumor - it's direct from them!

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony ends up removing the Cell technology in the upcoming PS3 that we have all been hearing so much about. Do you understand where I'm going with this mode of thought?

Trebor, were you even gaming around the time the Dreamcast was released and the lead-up to it? Sega ruined their reputation by milking consumers for add-ons like the 32-X and CD system instead of releasing a true, next-gen system. They then released the Saturn with lower (and VERY noticable) tech specs than the PSOne. Games trickled in every few months (literally) and when good games came out, they were in such short supply that the fans couldn't get them unless they were at the game stores when they opened. How do I know this? I was a poor soul trying desperately to find games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, House of the Dead and Sonic Museum but couldn't because Sega short-changed us.

I was a gamer who owned (and still does) a Dreamcast system before I ever got a PS2. I also happen to own 30 mint-condition games for it to this day. Sega again cut out on me and every other die-hard Sega-head out there and announced that the Dreamcast was being discontinued in January 2001....just THREE DAMN MONTHS after the PS2 was released.

And to this day, I currently own TWENTY-SEVEN Sega titles across the Gameboy Advance, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. So please, don't question my love for Sega's games.

And like I said before, I could care less if MP3 playback or whatever other extraneous features are in the PSP. If the damn thing has games that look as good or near to PS2 games, can connect and swap game saves with the PS2 and cost around $200-then it's a good system for me. But all this is pure speculation and conjecture and just your way of ranting against Sony.

[trebor]

...I have to agree with Prince of Darkness on this one. I don't think that connectivity is a bad idea per-se, but the way and extent to which NIntendo has implemented it isn't worth getting excited about, nor is it a suitable substitue for the lack of online and system-link gaming. All of which is what Nintendo has used it for. I have a GBA, a link cable, a Gamecube and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. Yet, I have not used the lik features at all yet.

Now as far as the PS2/PSP connectivity is concerned, if it allows me to save a game on one system and transfer that save to the other and continue playing exactly where I left off, then it is a good idea. If I can use a standard USB cable that will most likely be included with the PSP, that is a good idea as well. If I can hook my PSP through the USB cable to the PS2 and play my PSP games on the PS2, then that too is a good idea.

The PSP is a radically different beast than the Gameboy Advance. I dearly love my GBA as it allows me to continue to play great, side-scrolling games like Metroid Fusion & Zero Mission that I otherwise would not get to play. The PSP on the other hand is basically a miniaturized PS2 in a portable form. It is a high-end electronics device more along the lines of a PDA than a mini-handheld gaming machine.

You're missing the point here - considering all the bad press about the GBA/GC connectivity, I find it funny that Sony is copying Nintendo on the concept.


Whether or not the system includes Bluetooth wireless or MP3 playback doesn't concern me. I have YET to listen to a single CD on any of my gaming systems and I don't plan on doing anything like that now with a portable. :rolleyes:

Well as long as YOU aren't needing those features, then I guess it's okay then. For the rest of the consumers in the world though, the MP3 playback and the Bluetooth were strong selling points.

Not having Bluetooth though is absolutely horrible idea. Unless you enjoy being tethered to another handheld via the USB cable, or whatever it might be, I would think that you would be inclined to agree.


But getting back to the main gist of your thread which is that you hate Sony, that's your perogative. And it's fully in your right not to support the company by not spending money on them. But if Sony actually implements true connectivity between the PSP and PS2, what is your problem with that?

I don't have a problem with connectivity. Not in the slightest. Not even Nintendo's "fake" connectivity. In fact I think the concept is pretty darn cool - too bad Sony didn't think of it themselves.

Don't forget though, I DID own a PS1 and I DIDN'T own a N64. So this isn't just mindless Nintendo fanboy ranting here.

[trebor]

Trebor, were you even gaming around the time the Dreamcast was released and the lead-up to it? Sega ruined their reputation by milking consumers for add-ons like the 32-X and CD system instead of releasing a true, next-gen system. They then released the Saturn with lower (and VERY noticable) tech specs than the PSOne. Games trickled in every few months (literally) and when good games came out, they were in such short supply that the fans couldn't get them unless they were at the game stores when they opened. How do I know this? I was a poor soul trying desperately to find games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Burning Rangers, House of the Dead and Sonic Museum but couldn't because Sega short-changed us.

I was a gamer who owned (and still does) a Dreamcast system before I ever got a PS2. I also happen to own 30 mint-condition games for it to this day. Sega again cut out on me and every other die-hard Sega-head out there and announced that the Dreamcast was being discontinued in January 2001....just THREE DAMN MONTHS after the PS2 was released.

And to this day, I currently own TWENTY-SEVEN Sega titles across the Gameboy Advance, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox. So please, don't question my love for Sega's games.

That's great.


And like I said before, I could care less if MP3 playback or whatever other extraneous features are in the PSP. If the damn thing has games that look as good or near to PS2 games, can connect and swap game saves with the PS2 and cost around $200-then it's a good system for me. But all this is pure speculation and conjecture and just your way of ranting against Sony.

Oh...you do have a point.

Okay, I need you to put on your thinking cap for a second. You ready? Okay here we go...

Given that Sony is already starting to pull features from the PSP, what makes you think that it will still be "as good or near to PS2" in graphics quality by the time it is released?

As this post has already proven, just because Sony has made those claims, doesn't necessarily mean they will end up in the final build. The only thing that is guaranteed is that the more features they pull, the more constant the price will remain.

[no.1gamer]

I was a gamer who owned (and still does) a Dreamcast system before I ever got a PS2. I also happen to own 30 mint-condition games for it to this day. Sega again cut out on me and every other die-hard Sega-head out there and announced that the Dreamcast was being discontinued in January 2001....just THREE DAMN MONTHS after the PS2 was released.

The worst part is that at the time the Dreamcast had by far and away better games for it. Also at the time the PS2 (launch) games didn't look or play "better" than Dreamcast games. Of course now (3 years later) PS2 games look better than anything the Dreamcast could have produced. But at the time I just don't understand why the Dreamcast up and died overnight.

[Brendon]

Soooo, let's see if I have all the facts straight about the PSP, it's allegedly a portable PS2 being brought to market, it DOSN'T do music playback and Sony have thus far said absolutely NOTHING concerning long term concerns such as battery life.

So we have to buy the same game twice to explore the conectivity feature (as oppossed to linking between two very different games on GC), I think the major concern brought up that dumped MP3 playback is that it would need a harddrive, Which is easily exploited given a conectivity system.

Second, WHY havn't we heard anything about the battery life, the GBA has a life of 30-40 hours on high quality batteries, does anyone REALLY expect that sort of life out of a system that needs to use a laser to read discs and has a screen, We're talking game gear and Lynx power consumage here.

I'm sorry, but from a purely business standpoint, Nintendo play a hell of a lot smarter than Sony like to pretend they do. Even now, after dumping major features, the PSP still dosn't sit comfortably from an economic perspective, even at the price, expect a lot more dumping (like down to slightly above the PS1) from their big list of promises in the near future. Oh and polygon pumping hardware is still pretty big even now, can you say "software render", go on, it's fun.

I really don't understand Sega and Microsoft are thought of as 'untrustworthy' when, to my memory, Sony are they only company to have consistantly told utter porkies in the hope of hyping their systems and stopping the competition fro mgetting a foothold.

[folken001]

That's where our opinions differ. Even though the Xbox is the closest console to a PC it is still considered a console, and putting a harddrive in a game console is an original idea.

As far as the Xbox 2 goes I will bet you that they put one in, and if they don't, then I'm not buying it.
Standard? Hardly. Xbox is the only console come with a HDD built in.

Also, MS is original with Xbox & HDD the same way as putting strawberries on a chocolate cakes instead of a ice dream cake. Blah...

[AOE Enforcer]

That's great.



Oh...you do have a point.

Okay, I need you to put on your thinking cap for a second. You ready? Okay here we go...

Given that Sony is already starting to pull features from the PSP, what makes you think that it will still be "as good or near to PS2" in graphics quality by the time it is released?

As this post has already proven, just because Sony has made those claims, doesn't necessarily mean they will end up in the final build. The only thing that is guaranteed is that the more features they pull, the more constant the price will remain.

Now, now...let's not be sarcastic about this. We can have a rational discussion here.

First, every item listed that is "supposed" to be in the PSP is just hype until the actual product is released. Nobody except the people making the system know what features it will include when it is released.

I didn't buy the PS2 or PS1 because of "tech specs." I bought them because they had the best damn games available. It's as simple as that for me. I could care less that they play CD's, DVD's or have an expansion slot for whatever doo-dad they make down the road after launch. It's the same reason I bought a Gamecube over an Xbox. I could care less about extra junk-the games are first & foremost in my mind.

Sony wants to keep a competitive price with the PSP and market it against the Gameboy Advance. In my mind, that puts the hardware at $199 tops and more than likely, $150.

If Sony gives me a system with 1.5 gigs (or whatever) of space per optical disc, a backlit, high resolution screen, similar controls to the Dual Shock layout and graphics anywhere near as modern as what the PS2 produces, I am sold on the product.

If they add MP3 playback (hopefully that you can download from the PS2 HDD Jukebox) then that is a bonus to my purchase. If Sony allows me to hook my PSP up to my PS2 and transfer data, that is a bonus.

Until May though, this is all just fanboy site news. I've read your article and read a similar one on Spong where they say that Sony is CONSIDERING what options to include in the PSP. Did it ever occur to you that the report on Magic Box was a little off as so many reports are these days? Did it ever cross your mind that leaving these features out may be a way of cutting costs on the system so they can launch it with a more competitive price point to the Gameboy Advance?

But why not talk about the shock that spread from Nintendo Japan's HQ a week or so ago where it was leaked that there may never be a new Nintendo console? Guess you will just have to buy a PS3 to play your Nintendo fan-faves then Trebor.

[no.1gamer]

...We're talking game gear and Lynx power consumage here...

I actually still think the Game gear was the greatest portable gaming system ever made. Yes, yes, 6 AA batteries would drain in a matter of hours, but it was worth it. I think the reason it died a painful and horrible death (like every other unfortunate victim of the Gameboy) is because it was too far ahead of it's time.

BTW, good point about the battery life. It would undoubtedly be powered by some form of rechargeable battery pack. Lithium ion perhaps? This type of battery is commonly used in cell phones. Of course being a big contender in the lap top computer industry I would hope that Sony could think of something clever to power the PSP.

But I really think portable gaming is best left on indestructible cartridges. The difference between a cartridge and disc format will be non existent while viewing from a 3" big screen.

Will the PSP dethrone the Sega Gamegear as my favorite portable gaming system of all time? Doubtful...

[Zilla Man]

Sorry I'm late, Treb. Miss me? :D

Well as long as YOU aren't needing those features, then I guess it's okay then. For the rest of the consumers in the world though, the MP3 playback and the Bluetooth were strong selling points.

Really? Most gamers I know just could care less about those features. Ask your average gamer or EB patron if it makes a difference as to their choice to buy or not buy a PSP. I think it's all about the games. How else could you explain Nintendo selling millions of GBA rehashes of ten year old games on a machine with dated technology?

As for companies hyping their systems' features, name one company that hasn't?
I guess you don't remember the 1st E3 in 1995 when Nintendo wowed everybody because their booth showed a high-res Mario dancing in all his glory - supposedly running on N64 (then called 'Project Reality') hardware? Unfortunately somebody blew the whistle on Nintendo and dropped the bomb that what was shown was running on a professional Silicon Graphics Machine, not the console hardware. Nintendo's response to this revelation? "We forgot to mention it."

Trebor, you do bring up another good point. Anybody stupid enough to buy a product the first day, week, month it hits the shelves gets what they deserve. I don't care what system it is. Please, people, do a little consumer research and thinking first. I really have trouble feeling sorry for the Sega fans that rushed out and bought all the perpherals and stuff without giving any thought to the marketplace. We all knew PS2 was coming and that SEGA was on the brink. Dems da breaks...

As far as big, bad, Sony "ripping off" connectivity from Nintendo -- yeah, and Boss Visual Effects "ripped off" motion control from Industrial Light and Magic, just like Nintendo "ripped off" the cartridge format from Fairchild, Magnavox, and Atari...horrors!

["The Game"Evolution]

The biggest reason I think people bash connectivity in the GC is it seems like Nintendo wants that to substitute for online and system link gaming. If they had connectivity and showed the slightest bit of interest in online play, I don't think you would hear so much griping.

As for the hype machine, it's the same with every company especially in the gaming industy. They prance around declaring how fantastic the specs or features on their latest piece of hardware or game. Then it hits the stores and people realize that it was just hype. Nintendo pushes connectivity all over the place, but is it actually used in anything? The only game that's really made the GBA have any impact on gameplay is FFCC. Other then that, it's just a gimmick. I went into Best Buy the other day and they didn't even have the link cords in the store.

So it remains to be seen what Sony actually plans to do with their connectivity. If they manage to make it have an impact on gameplay, that would be a step ahead of Nintendo. (If they actually do it at all...)

The biggest reason I think people bash connectivity in the GC is it seems like Nintendo wants that to substitute for online and system link gaming. If they had connectivity and showed the slightest bit of interest in online play, I don't think you would hear so much griping.Bob The Fish's words.

My setiments exactly.Now we'll see what Sony will do with the PSP.Its painfully obvious that Nintendo is trying to divert the attention from their lack of online gaming through this GBA connectivity thing.But if Sony takes this PS2/PSP thing to a whole new level then what will Nintendo do?

[Gadfly2317]

Oh damn. Connectivity is one feature that should NOT be copied.

But, yes you're absolutely right trebor! Let's you and me just sit here and read what everyone posts about how Sony+Connectivity=great idea all the sudden. That's so true it's funny. Then eventually just like you said we can find additional reading on videogame sites.

Alright trebor let's wait and see how great of an idea Sony has with its connectivity feature by reading all the posts...


Before I comment on connectivity being a "gimmick" and a "sub for online" as several people have said, I want to say this first. Sony has a long history of copying Nintendo, and now xbox. Who had an analog control? N64. Sony had to play catch-up, and I had to buy all new controllers for my PS1 when they finally got the analog ones out. Force feedback? And a hell of a lot of the Ps1 games seemed like knock offs of the Nintendo games that set the standard in 3-D like Mario64 and Ocarina. Now they are copying connectivty between console and handheld.

Is connectivity just a gimmick? How many that have said that have tried it? I would not call it a core or essential function, but its pretty cool. Those who have used it in FF:CC rave about it, it totally makes the game. It was cool in Animal Crossing, which was a single player game, but I could download things within the game to the GBA, like the NES games and take them with me; I could download the clothing and logo pattern editor, the music editor, and stuff to the GBA, and my girlfriend could work on designing a cool outfit while I played (or vice-versa). It even worked stragically in Animal Crossing--you could download the hidden island, and there was a way to control the animal on the island and make a bunch of money when you re-uploaded the island.

GBA connectivity is a cool--(though non-essential--little sidetool that is underused as an unseen playbook for sports games, and it served well as a side radar Splinter Cell.

All the GBA/connectivity stuff. . . none of it is some sort of essential experience, but more options are a good thing, and theres some cool things you can do with it. Dismissing it as a mere "gimmick" seems like the trite observation of people who've never messed with it.

It's no sub for online, and I don't think anyone has ever tried to say it in anyway replicates an aspect of the online experience. If it was to "sub" for online, it would be "like" online. Its not, its a whole other thing, and has nothing to do with Nintendo's lack of interest in online (which is because they claim to not think it is yet profitable.)

["The Game"Evolution]

Oh damn. Connectivity is one feature that should NOT be copied.

But, yes you're absolutely right trebor! Let's you and me just sit here and read what everyone posts about how Sony+Connectivity=great idea all the sudden. That's so true it's funny. Then eventually just like you said we can find additional reading on videogame sites.

Alright trebor let's wait and see how great of an idea Sony has with its connectivity feature by reading all the posts...

Realistically what Sony plans to do with the PSP/PS2 thing actually sounds pretty damn good.We all know that the PSP wont come close to putting a dent in the GBA kingdom.

However it sounds like what they're doing with the connectivity issue concerning the PSP/PS2 thing is going to be knocking on the door to what Nintendo has been doing with the GBA/GC connectivity issue.(Just like what the Xbox did to the PS2) (One is more popular and sells more consoles,but the other kicks its ass from a technical perspective.Same thing here)

[Bob-the-Fish]

Before I comment on connectivity being a "gimmick" and a "sub for online" as several people have said, I want to say this first. Sony has a long history of copying Nintendo, and now xbox. Who had an analog control? N64. Sony had to play catch-up, and I had to buy all new controllers for my PS1 when they finally got the analog ones out. Force feedback? And a hell of a lot of the Ps1 games seemed like knock offs of the Nintendo games that set the standard in 3-D like Mario64 and Ocarina. Now they are copying connectivty between console and handheld.

All of the console companies copy the little things that the others do. It's how they stay competitive just like any other market. Look at how every controller designed today is very similar to a Dual Shock (Nintendo's is almost identical escept for the bizzare button lay out). And the Dual Shock itself is a step up from the SNES pad. Every system nowadays uses memory cards in some fashion. I expect at least Sony will be copying MS's lead with a HDD in the PS3. Online gaming really hit the market with the DC. Every gaming company uses disks in some form for their games. And on and on.


Is connectivity just a gimmick? How many that have said that have tried it? I would not call it a core or essential function, but its pretty cool. Those who have used it in FF:CC rave about it, it totally makes the game. It was cool in Animal Crossing, which was a single player game, but I could download things within the game to the GBA, like the NES games and take them with me; I could download the clothing and logo pattern editor, the music editor, and stuff to the GBA, and my girlfriend could work on designing a cool outfit while I played (or vice-versa). It even worked stragically in Animal Crossing--you could download the hidden island, and there was a way to control the animal on the island and make a bunch of money when you re-uploaded the island.

GBA connectivity is a cool--(though non-essential--little sidetool that is underused as an unseen playbook for sports games, and it served well as a side radar Splinter Cell.

All the GBA/connectivity stuff. . . none of it is some sort of essential experience, but more options are a good thing, and theres some cool things you can do with it. Dismissing it as a mere "gimmick" seems like the trite observation of people who've never messed with it.

It's no sub for online, and I don't think anyone has ever tried to say it in anyway replicates an aspect of the online experience. If it was to "sub" for online, it would be "like" online. Its not, its a whole other thing, and has nothing to do with Nintendo's lack of interest in online (which is because they claim to not think it is yet profitable.)

Your right, I have never played a GC game using the connectivity feature. I was going try it with Metroid, but I never found a store that stocked the cords. Granted, I didn't look very hard because I didn't need one, it just would be neat to try.

I still am inclined to call it a gimmick at this point in its existance. From what I have heard about it and based on your statements above, it is something that is not essential to game play in all cases that I know of except FFCC.

"GBA connectivity is a cool--(though non-essential--little sidetool that is underused as an unseen playbook for sports games, and it served well as a side radar Splinter Cell." That's pretty much my deffinition of a "gimmick" for a game system. It's not like a DDR dance pad or an Eyetoy for example that define the game and how it is played, it's just a little something extra added into other games. There's no reason the GBA connectivity feature couldn't evolve into something more, much like Squenix did with FFCC and I think Sony including it in their package would actually help that along. If Sony is offering a similar service then Nintendo has to up their own to continue to have that advantage as a selling point. Just like MS did with Live vs the Sony Network Adapter. And sinice the user base for the GBA is enormous, Nintendo can design more conctivity-central games without worrying about alienating consumers unlike Sony.

[trebor]

Now, now...let's not be sarcastic about this. We can have a rational discussion here.

First, every item listed that is "supposed" to be in the PSP is just hype until the actual product is released. Nobody except the people making the system know what features it will include when it is released.

You are absolutely correct about every item that is "supposed" to be in the PSP being hype until the product is released. What you keep ignoring that the initial source for all this "hype" is Sony themselves. E3 last year, Sony when into detail of what features we could expect the PSP to have.


If Sony gives me a system with 1.5 gigs (or whatever) of space per optical disc, a backlit, high resolution screen, similar controls to the Dual Shock layout and graphics anywhere near as modern as what the PS2 produces, I am sold on the product.

If they add MP3 playback (hopefully that you can download from the PS2 HDD Jukebox) then that is a bonus to my purchase. If Sony allows me to hook my PSP up to my PS2 and transfer data, that is a bonus.

Okay, I really, really want you to think about this carefully - Last E3 Sony claimed the PSP was going to have "close to PS2" graphics, 1.5 gig optical discs, MP3, Bluetooth, and the ability to play movies on the go.

Well, fast forward to present and Sony has admited the discs are too small to put full movies on a disc, so that feature is gone. Now the MP3 and Bluetooth will most likely be cut. So who is to say that the PSP will end up having closer to PS1 graphics then PS2? In fact, who is to say it will have 3D graphics at all? Just because Sony claimed it will doesn't mean it actually will.

To put this in the form of an analogy - the U.S. intelligence was incorrect about the WMD's in Iraq. So given the intelligence has flaws in it, who is to say that the intelligence proving Iraq had ties to Al Quada isn't flawed as well? In fact, who is to say the U.S. intelligence has been correct about anything? If one part of the intelligence has glaring flaws, it stands to reason that the rest of the intelligence has flaws.


But why not talk about the shock that spread from Nintendo Japan's HQ a week or so ago where it was leaked that there may never be a new Nintendo console? Guess you will just have to buy a PS3 to play your Nintendo fan-faves then Trebor.

Well, if you read gaming sites like I do, you would know that Nintendo immediately refuted that rumor. And if this rumor does end up being true, that means they will be developing games for the Gamecube till 2007. Guess what? I own a Gamecube. I don't own the N5. So if Nintendo keeps making games for the system I already own, for a longer period of time, then I will be happy.

[trebor]

Sorry I'm late, Treb. Miss me? :D

But of course!


Really? Most gamers I know just could care less about those features. Ask your average gamer or EB patron if it makes a difference as to their choice to buy or not buy a PSP. I think it's all about the games. How else could you explain Nintendo selling millions of GBA rehashes of ten year old games on a machine with dated technology?

Most gamers could care less about wireless multiplayer gaming? So why do I always read about people complaining about the link cable for the GBA and how it should have had Bluetooth? You can't seriously tell me that you wouldn't prefer it having Bluetooth over not having Bluetooth.

You are right though, it IS all about the games. I'm sure you will go cookoo for cocoa puffs over all the great PS1 rehashes that will become available for the PSP.


As for companies hyping their systems' features, name one company that hasn't?
I guess you don't remember the 1st E3 in 1995 when Nintendo wowed everybody because their booth showed a high-res Mario dancing in all his glory - supposedly running on N64 (then called 'Project Reality') hardware? Unfortunately somebody blew the whistle on Nintendo and dropped the bomb that what was shown was running on a professional Silicon Graphics Machine, not the console hardware. Nintendo's response to this revelation? "We forgot to mention it."

Well, gee, what would you be saying if Nintendo had made several boasts to features that were going to be in the N64 that ended up getting cut before the release?

You were at last year's E3, correct? You heard all the claims Sony made for the PSP and less then a year later half of those claims are null.

Everybody knows that developers don't get finished hardware for developing software - they get computers with emulation software. Every single company does it - including your precious Micro$oft. M$ has been sending PowerMac G5's to developers because the architechture will be very similar to the Xbox Next. Big hairy deal.


Trebor, you do bring up another good point. Anybody stupid enough to buy a product the first day, week, month it hits the shelves gets what they deserve. I don't care what system it is. Please, people, do a little consumer research and thinking first. I really have trouble feeling sorry for the Sega fans that rushed out and bought all the perpherals and stuff without giving any thought to the marketplace. We all knew PS2 was coming and that SEGA was on the brink. Dems da breaks...

Well, that I do certainly agree with - for the most part. That is why I waited a full year before buying a console.


As far as big, bad, Sony "ripping off" connectivity from Nintendo -- yeah, and Boss Visual Effects "ripped off" motion control from Industrial Light and Magic, just like Nintendo "ripped off" the cartridge format from Fairchild, Magnavox, and Atari...horrors!

Apples and oranges. You are talking industry standards -vs- concepts and ideas. The cartridge format was an industry standard - you have a game console? Well you need to get games into it somehow.

Whereas the Nintendo connectivity is an unique concept that isn't necessarily required to play a game - only PacMan Vs. and Crystal Chronicles "require" the connectivity - and that is only for multiplayer.

In any respect, I think Sony ripping off connectivity from Nintendo shows exactly how worthwhile an idea it actually is.

[Xguy]

To put this in the form of an analogy - the U.S. intelligence was incorrect about the WMD's in Iraq. So given the intelligence has flaws in it, who is to say that the intelligence proving Iraq had ties to Al Quada isn't flawed as well? In fact, who is to say the U.S. intelligence has been correct about anything? If one part of the intelligence has glaring flaws, it stands to reason that the rest of the intelligence has flaws

Wow...something you need to talk about Trebor? Since we are throwing analogies on the virtual table, allow me...

Imagine if, when you were a kid, you had some dirty magazines hidden in your room (like I did). Now imagine that your mom says to you one day, "Trebor, I heard from your friends mom (that rat bastard!) that you have some dirty magazines in your room." Furthermore, she adds, "Now, I am going to come look for those magazines tomorrow. I am going ask you to show me all of the places that you would hide them."

So you take her and show her beneath your bed, in your socks drawer, and in your desk drawer (but not in your ceiling tiles!). After growing increasingly curious, and still not satisfied, she decides she is going to come look for them on her own. So one day she announces, "Trebor, I am going to be coming into your room to look for your stash at 1 PM on June 14th."

Fearing the wrath of your mother, do you think that you may take measures to be sure that your stash is not anywhere near your room. I guarentee you those mags wouldn't be within miles of my room when she got there.

Also, keep in mind all of the underground tunnel systems, bunkers, storage, etc that Iraq has built up over the years. Also, remember that you need an area about the size of a two car garage to build a nuke in, and less space for most other weapons manufacturing. Finally, keep in mind that Iraq is slightly larger than California in land area. Talk about your needle in a hay stack!

Not saying that the WMDs are there or ever were, just saying give it time. We haven't been there that long. It's just getting blown out of proportion because of the combination of the oncoming election, and the fact that American have the attention span of a two year old toddler.

How's that for staying on topic? ;-)

[Deathstroke]

Oooh, let me piggyback that analogy of yours.

So say, your mom comes into your room one day and pulls out an uzi. Then she says, show me the magazines b****. Would you or would you not show her the magazines? In fact, would you not want to take out the magazines and throw them at her in some sort of half hearted attempt at fighting back?

Errrr, I gotta go.

[trebor]

Wow...something you need to talk about Trebor? Since we are throwing analogies on the virtual table, allow me...

Imagine if, when you were a kid, you had some dirty magazines hidden in your room (like I did). Now imagine that your mom says to you one day, "Trebor, I heard from your friends mom (that rat bastard!) that you have some dirty magazines in your room." Furthermore, she adds, "Now, I am going to come look for those magazines tomorrow. I am going ask you to show me all of the places that you would hide them."

So you take her and show her beneath your bed, in your socks drawer, and in your desk drawer (but not in your ceiling tiles!). After growing increasingly curious, and still not satisfied, she decides she is going to come look for them on her own. So one day she announces, "Trebor, I am going to be coming into your room to look for your stash at 1 PM on June 14th."

Fearing the wrath of your mother, do you think that you may take measures to be sure that your stash is not anywhere near your room. I guarentee you those mags wouldn't be within miles of my room when she got there.

Also, keep in mind all of the underground tunnel systems, bunkers, storage, etc that Iraq has built up over the years. Also, remember that you need an area about the size of a two car garage to build a nuke in, and less space for most other weapons manufacturing. Finally, keep in mind that Iraq is slightly larger than California in land area. Talk about your needle in a hay stack!

Not saying that the WMDs are there or ever were, just saying give it time. We haven't been there that long. It's just getting blown out of proportion because of the combination of the oncoming election, and the fact that American have the attention span of a two year old toddler.

How's that for staying on topic? ;-)

Oh here we go. :rolleyes:

I can debunk your entire argument by pointing out one thing - if the "friend's mom", that had the dirty magazine intelligence, misunderstood said friend and called the incorrect mom with the dirt, so to speak. Thereby getting poor Trebor in trouble for dirty magazines that he did not possess.

Jeez. What is this, Dynamic Truth or something?

Let's get back to bashing Sony.

[Renzatic Gear]

Oooh, let me piggyback that analogy of yours.

So say, your mom comes into your room one day and pulls out an uzi. Then she says, show me the magazines b****. Would you or would you not show her the magazines? In fact, would you not want to take out the magazines and throw them at her in some sort of half hearted attempt at fighting back?

Errrr, I gotta go.You had a really tough childhood, didn't you Slade?

"The beatings will stop when morale improves, Slade!"

"NO MAMMA NO!"

[Xguy]

Oh here we go. :rolleyes:

I can debunk your entire argument by pointing out one thing - if the "friend's mom", that had the dirty magazine intelligence, misunderstood said friend and called the incorrect mom with the dirt, so to speak. Thereby getting poor Trebor in trouble for dirty magazines that he did not possess.

Jeez. What is this, Dynamic Truth or something?

Let's get back to bashing Sony.

Just busting your chops Trebor...and yes, Sony sucks!

Although, as I'm sure you are aware, if this was a political forum, I would not let you "debunk" my analogy without contest, but I digress...

Anyways, who started with the political analogies?? :eek:

[Xguy]

Oooh, let me piggyback that analogy of yours.

So say, your mom comes into your room one day and pulls out an uzi. Then she says, show me the magazines b****. Would you or would you not show her the magazines? In fact, would you not want to take out the magazines and throw them at her in some sort of half hearted attempt at fighting back?

Errrr, I gotta go.

Not if I was too busy trying to hide in my spider hole! :D

[Deathstroke]

You had a really tough childhood, didn't you Slade?

"The beatings will stop when morale improves, Slade!"

"NO MAMMA NO!"

LOL, I was asking for it and I'm not just speaking of this joke you hit me with.

[trebor]

Just busting your chops Trebor...and yes, Sony sucks!

Although, as I'm sure you are aware, if this was a political forum, I would not let you "debunk" my analogy without contest, but I digress...

Anyways, who started with the political analogies?? :eek:

Well, I suppose I started with the political analogies. But I was under the assumption that people were begining to except the facts and admit that Iraq doesn't have WMD's, never did have WMD's and never will have WMD's. And that the reason we are over in Iraq right now has nothing to do with WMD's.

But as far as "debunking" your analogy, defending intelligence that has already proven to be incorrect doesn't lend much credence to an argument. What good is arguing whether Trebor has dirty magazines or not when the source that told you Trebor has dirty magazines is flawed?

Besides, Sony really, really does suck. I mean seriously, they are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

[Xguy]

I mean seriously, they are the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

Nice Simpsons reference.

[trebor]

Nice Simpsons reference.

Thanks. There's actually two Simpsons references in my profile. Can YOU figure them out? :confused:

[Xguy]

Nope.