2004: PS2 jumping out to a huge early lead

[Glockstar]

You've all heard me say it a dozen times... 2003 was, imo, the greatest year for videogames EVAR!!!

But I figured 2004 would give it a real run it's for money. So far though, I'd say 2004 has been something of a dissapointment.

At least to me. At this time last year I had already bought 3 new games (DMC2, PDO, and DOA-XBV). This year, I've only bought one, and it's arguable as to whether the game is really "new" or not: Intellivision Lives! (for the XBox).

That said, I do recognize that the Playstation 2 has had quite a few noteworthy and temptable exclusive offerings already in this first month and a half - which reminds me a lot of last year, when the PS2 jumped out to a early lead then too. I know it's early, but the XBox looks like it's off to a much worse start than last year, while the GameCube is barely off to a start at all!

Looking at the year so far, strictly from an exclusive point of view...
PS2:
1) dot Hack pt. 4
2) Maximo vs. Army of Zin
3) Mafia
4) Air Force Delta Strike
5) Champions of Norrath
6) Nightshade

XBox:
1) SegaGT Online
2) Silent Scope Complete
3) Unreal II: The Awakening

GC:
1) Final Fantasy: Chrystal Chronicles

... it's clear that the PS2 is winning.

Even though the XBox list is three times the size of the GameCubes, it's arguable as to whether any of those three games listed are "new" or "exclusive".

I still think the XBox is off to a way better start than the GC tho', because if you count semi-exclusives, then the XB (and P2 lists) also get Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance II and Wrath Unleashed added to them.

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but is this right... 007: Everything or Nothing is going to be just the third game released for the GC this year?!? (The first being NFL Street, another multi-plat.) :eek:

Of all the 2004 releases, Maximo, Nightshade, CoN, and BG: DA2 look like the most tempting purchases to me... but I doubt that I'll get any of them any time soon.

Howabout yuse guys - how's your year looking so far?

[Gadfly2317]

You've all heard me say it a dozen times... 2003 was, imo, the greatest year for videogames EVAR!!!

But I figured 2004 would give it a real run it's for money. So far though, I'd say 2004 has been something of a dissapointment.

At least to me. At this time last year I had already bought 3 new games (DMC2, PDO, and DOA-XBV). This year, I've only bought one, and it's arguable as to whether the game is really "new" or not: Intellivision Lives! (for the XBox).

That said, I do recognize that the Playstation 2 has had quite a few noteworthy and temptable exclusive offerings already in this first month and a half - which reminds me a lot of last year, when the PS2 jumped out to a early lead then too. I know it's early, but the XBox looks like it's off to a much worse start than last year, while the GameCube is barely off to a start at all!

Looking at the year so far, strictly from an exclusive point of view...
PS2:
1) dot Hack pt. 4
2) Maximo vs. Army of Zin
3) Mafia
4) Air Force Delta Strike
5) Champions of Norrath
6) Nightshade

XBox:
1) SegaGT Online
2) Silent Scope Complete
3) Unreal II: The Awakening

GC:
1) Final Fantasy: Chrystal Chronicles

... it's clear that the PS2 is winning.

Even though the XBox list is three times the size of the GameCubes, it's arguable as to whether any of those three games listed are "new" or "exclusive".

I still think the XBox is off to a way better start than the GC tho', because if you count semi-exclusives, then the XB (and P2 lists) also get Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance II and Wrath Unleashed added to them.

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but is this right... 007: Everything or Nothing is going to be just the third game released for the GC this year?!? (The first being NFL Street, another multi-plat.) :eek:

Of all the 2004 releases, Maximo, Nightshade, CoN, and BG: DA2 look like the most tempting purchases to me... but I doubt that I'll get any of them any time soon.

Howabout yuse guys - how's your year looking so far?

By February last year, wasn't the first and only great game of the year Panzer Dragoon?

Maybe Nintendo can take care of its "third party woes" if it stops putting out games. That way, all we've got to buy are third party games.

2003 was a great year. . . much of my 2004 gaming budget will be spent on 2003 games I haven't played yet.

GC is great if you've got a GBA Player bolted to the bottom of it: Metroid Zero Mission. In March will Play Harvest Moon, and then the long drought until Pikmin, Killer 7, and all the way to xmas for Resident Evil 4. Maybe E3 will reveal something more. All I want so far this year for Xbox is Fable, Halo II, Psychonauts and the new Oddworld. Will rent Ninja Gaiden to see if it's as fun as it is pretty.

As far as multi-plats not coming to cube, I tried the demo level of "The Suffering" yesterday on Xbox magazines demo disk. Seemed a pretty grim setting for a horror game. The demo level was creepier than this movie we watched yesterday, "28 days later." The box called it something like "The scariest movie since the excorcist." What a load.

PS2--biggest rip ever. With the sales they've had there's no reason they couldn't drop the price in a big way. It's the low-tech of the bunch, but still at a high price. There's some great games there to play, but I'm not adding a third console until its $99.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

You've all heard me say it a dozen times... 2003 was, imo, the greatest year for videogames EVAR!!!

But I figured 2004 would give it a real run it's for money. So far though, I'd say 2004 has been something of a dissapointment.

At least to me. At this time last year I had already bought 3 new games (DMC2, PDO, and DOA-XBV). This year, I've only bought one, and it's arguable as to whether the game is really "new" or not: Intellivision Lives! (for the XBox).

That said, I do recognize that the Playstation 2 has had quite a few noteworthy and temptable exclusive offerings already in this first month and a half - which reminds me a lot of last year, when the PS2 jumped out to a early lead then too. I know it's early, but the XBox looks like it's off to a much worse start than last year, while the GameCube is barely off to a start at all!

Looking at the year so far, strictly from an exclusive point of view...
PS2:
1) dot Hack pt. 4
2) Maximo vs. Army of Zin
3) Mafia
4) Air Force Delta Strike
5) Champions of Norrath
6) Nightshade

XBox:
1) SegaGT Online
2) Silent Scope Complete
3) Unreal II: The Awakening

GC:
1) Final Fantasy: Chrystal Chronicles

... it's clear that the PS2 is winning.

Even though the XBox list is three times the size of the GameCubes, it's arguable as to whether any of those three games listed are "new" or "exclusive".

I still think the XBox is off to a way better start than the GC tho', because if you count semi-exclusives, then the XB (and P2 lists) also get Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance II and Wrath Unleashed added to them.

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but is this right... 007: Everything or Nothing is going to be just the third game released for the GC this year?!? (The first being NFL Street, another multi-plat.) :eek:

Of all the 2004 releases, Maximo, Nightshade, CoN, and BG: DA2 look like the most tempting purchases to me... but I doubt that I'll get any of them any time soon.

Howabout yuse guys - how's your year looking so far?

I dunno, Glockstar. I always felt like year 2001 was the best Gaming year, at least after August 2001, followed by year 2003.

So far, 2004 has sucked. Anything I bought so far this year is now gone (Even BG&E), and all the games I was looking forward to last Christmas are now clumped together as far as being released:

007 (2/18, in store date)
Mafia (3/2)
Ninja Gaiden (3/3)
MGS: Twin Snakes (3/10)
Cy Girls (3/10)
Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (3/24)

It's not a problem as far as getting them, it's finding a time to play all of these games.

Besides that, Fable, Starcraft: Ghost, Driver 3, Halo 2, BC have either hit delays or there's no definite release date.

Overall, 2004 will kick ass as far as games, especially if/when the above games come out along with MGS: Snake Eater, Jade Empire, and a brand new Grand Theft Auto.

[Deathstroke]

It's probably just me but the only game I'm even marginally excited about this entire year is Resident Evil 4.

["The Game"Evolution]

It's probably just me but the only game I'm even marginally excited about this entire year is Resident Evil 4.

Dead To Rights 2:Hell To Pay
Bloodrayne 2
Painkiller
B.C.
Plague Of Darkness
Gungrave:Overdose
DOA:Online
Syphon Filter:The Omega Strain
Breakdown
Rallisport Challenge 2
Dungeons & Dragons:Forgotten Realms
Area 51
Star Wars:Battlefront
Gran Turismo 4
DOOM III
Halo 2
Half Life 2
Resident Evil:Outbreak
Tenchu:Online
Race Driver 2
Pokemon Colusseum
Robotech:Invasion
Seven Samurai 20XX
Cy Girls
Juiced
The Chronicles Of Riddick
Legends Of Wrestling:Showdown
Jade Empire
Sudeki
True Fantasy
Fable
MGS3
The Mega Man Anniversary Edition(close to 10 Mega Man titles in one package)
etc;

And the crazy part about all this is that most of you talk about the same games over and over and over again.Alot of you havent even mentioned alot of the games I listed.2004 has plenty to talk about.All you have to do is look and you'll find something to be excited about.

[Cuddly Knife]

Amen to the Megaman Anniversary Edition!!!!!!!

How's about a Contra bundle? With Contra, Super C, Contra III: Alien Wars, Contra: Hard Corps,, and hell, you could even put in the crappy PS1 games in there.

Is there a Contra III port on the GBA?

[no.1gamer]

I know that the holiday season is the biggest for video game sales. But perhaps some of the holiday 2003 releases should have been held off until now. With no competition what so ever I would think that a AAA game or 2 would be released now. This time last year Zelda: Wind Waker came out and blew everything else away. It dominated the entire 1st quarter of 2003. I guess Ninja Gaiden and Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes are coming out soon though. Don't be surprised to see incredible sales #s of them.

[Hieremias]

Mafia is not a PS2 exclusive, it's a PC game that's several years old. If you allow PC ports as "exclusives", then the Xbox will have a whole bunch.

Ignore the fact that the PC will handle them all much, much better. ;)

[Xguy]

Hurray for PS2! Now the people who forked out the money for this overpriced piece of doody can feel good about it. I know I would.

More games = better system.

Quantity is always the measure of greatness.

By the way...why do we quote entire posts before we reference them? :p

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I forgot to mention Transformers: Armada. It isn't Generation 1 Transformers, but as long as there is an Optimus Prime in the game, and there isn't a sign of that crap called "Beast Wars" in the game, I'll be one happy gamer.

I'm even curious about Acclaim's "Alias" game. Hopefully that will be decent.


Game, I can't believe you put Pokemon Coliseum on your list. :D

[trebor]

More games = better system.

Quantity is always the measure of greatness.

Well, duh! Quantity is always better then quality. I know because Pamela Anderson's plastic surgeon told me so. Quality is really over-rated.


By the way...why do we quote entire posts before we reference them? :p

Inquisitive little guy, aren't ya?

[trebor]

and there isn't a sign of that crap called "Beast Wars" in the game,

I hope you are refering to the crizzappy PS1 Beast Wars game and NOT the Beast Wars / Beast Machines CG animated series which, by the way, was the best Transformers series ever on TV. Ever.

[Deathstroke]

I hope you are refering to the crizzappy PS1 Beast Wars game and NOT the Beast Wars / Beast Machines CG animated series which, by the way, was the best Transformers series ever on TV. Ever.

Finally, someone that feels the same way I do. That T.V. series got me more into Transformers then the actual Transformers cartoon did.

[Gadfly2317]

Amen to the Megaman Anniversary Edition!!!!!!!

How's about a Contra bundle? With Contra, Super C, Contra III: Alien Wars, Contra: Hard Corps,, and hell, you could even put in the crappy PS1 games in there.

Is there a Contra III port on the GBA?


I wish there'd be a Contra Bundle on GC, including the last Ps2 Contra. Alien Wars in Co-op mode ranks as one of the top ten gaming experiences in my 20 years of gaming.

[AOE Enforcer]

Dead To Rights 2:Hell To Pay
Bloodrayne 2
Painkiller
B.C.
Plague Of Darkness
Gungrave:Overdose
DOA:Online
Syphon Filter:The Omega Strain
Breakdown
Rallisport Challenge 2
Dungeons & Dragons:Forgotten Realms
Area 51
Star Wars:Battlefront
Gran Turismo 4
DOOM III
Halo 2
Half Life 2
Resident Evil:Outbreak
Tenchu:Online
Race Driver 2
Pokemon Colusseum
Robotech:Invasion
Seven Samurai 20XX
Cy Girls
Juiced
The Chronicles Of Riddick
Legends Of Wrestling:Showdown
Jade Empire
Sudeki
True Fantasy
Fable
MGS3
The Mega Man Anniversary Edition(close to 10 Mega Man titles in one package)
etc;

And the crazy part about all this is that most of you talk about the same games over and over and over again.Alot of you havent even mentioned alot of the games I listed.2004 has plenty to talk about.All you have to do is look and you'll find something to be excited about.

For me, 2004 is already shaping up to be a banner year for gaming. I've already picked up Nightshade (good but not great), Maximo vs. Army of Zin, Metroid Zero Mission, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and more. Just in the first quarter with only about 40 days left to go, here are the games that I will be buying:

Ninja Gaiden for Xbox
Final Fantasy XI/HDD Bundle for PS2
Resident Evil Outbreak for PS2
Life-Line for PS2
Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes for Gamecube

Unfortunately, Dead or Alive Ultimate has been delayed until June at the earliest. Just 'case you boys didn't know. I've got enough left over from last year still to complete so I don't have a problem with the semi-slow start this year.

Game already went into a list of games coming in 2004 so I really don't see why I need to. But just to add, Metroid Prime 2, Mario 128 and the next Zelda are all scheduled for release this year as well. I can't wait to see what happens.

["The Game"Evolution]

I forgot to mention Transformers: Armada. It isn't Generation 1 Transformers, but as long as there is an Optimus Prime in the game, and there isn't a sign of that crap called "Beast Wars" in the game, I'll be one happy gamer.

I'm even curious about Acclaim's "Alias" game. Hopefully that will be decent.


Game, I can't believe you put Pokemon Coliseum on your list. :D

I used to play it with my nephew.Pokemon Stadium was actually a fun game to play.Pokemon Colisseum for the GC looks to be more of the same from the N64 original but better.

Plus I'm sorry but the old Transformers cartoon couldnt be touched IMO.Beast Wars and the new Transformers sucked compared to the first two seasons.Autobots,Deceptagons,Dino-bots,Constructagons,Omega Supreme,Soundwave,Star Scream,Megatron,Prime,Rachet,Rumble;etc.They were the best.

Plus Transformers:The Movie was one of the best cartoons ever.My favorite part:Star-Scream:"Megatron,is that you?" Galvatron:"Heres a hint."BLAST!!!! Star Scream screamed like a biatch and then crumbled into a million pieces. From there it was"HAIL GALVATRON! LOL!!!

Ahh....Anyway I would have to see the Transformers game for the PS2 up close before I pass judgement on it.Plus I've learned from a long time ago that games developed from Acclaim isnt much to talk about or look at.I dont see that tradition changing anytime soon.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I used to play it with my nephew.Pokemon Stadium was actually a fun game to play.Pokemon Colisseum for the GC looks to be more of the same from the N64 original but better.

Plus I'm sorry but the old Transformers cartoon couldnt be touched IMO.Beast Wars and the new Transformers sucked compared to the first two seasons.Autobots,Deceptagons,Dino-bots,Constructagons,Omega Supreme,Soundwave,Star Scream,Megatron,Prime,Rachet,Rumble;etc.They were the best.

Plus Transformers:The Movie was one of the best cartoons ever.My favorite part:Star-Scream:"Megatron,is that you?" Galvatron:"Heres a hint."BLAST!!!! Star Scream screamed like a biatch and then crumbled into a million pieces. From there it was"HAIL GALVATRON! LOL!!!

Ahh....Anyway I would have to see the Transformers game for the PS2 up close before I pass judgement on it.Plus I've learned from a long time ago that games developed from Acclaim isnt much to talk about or look at.I dont see that tradition changing anytime soon.


I agree with you 100% about the old Transformer cartoons. Any Transformer cartoon/GCI made after the movie just can't compare to the old ones. My favorite part in the movie was "Optimus Prime's Last Ride". When I saw that as a young lad, I think I let out a tear
:(

I have a cousin that loves playing Pokemon, so if she's good, I may rent Coliseum for her.

As far as Acclaim, I hope Alias ends up at least being playable, and not some piece of crap. Acclaim is also publishing the Showdown: Legends of Wrestling game (with Ultimate Warrior), so I hope that is a good title also.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\">It's only February!
</div>

I know it's only February. But it's all relative. I didn't want to get into the whole it-is/it-isn't-a-great-game argument at this time, because I think it's too early too judge whether any of the games released so far are "great" or not.

Besides... what is "great"? Define "great".

And you will remember that the XBox hatas here were laying it on pretty damned thick at this time last year with regards to that game - that you are now calling "great" - Panzer Dragoon Orta, yes? (Weren't you one of them? ;) )

That's why, when I look at the sheer number of games released for the PS2 already this year, I'm just about blown away. Including multi's P2 owners have already seen 13 new titles in just 6.5 weeks (not including this one)!

That equates to a lot of choice for P2 owners! And if you look at the titles, you'll see that there's A LOT of variety there as well. As to whether the games are "quality" or not, I think the best judges of that are PS2 owners, don't you?

Btw, the thirteen are: dot Hack 4, Star Trek: SU, BG: DA2, R-Type Final, Fallout: BoS, Sonic Heroes, AirForceDeltaStrike, NFL Street, Maximo vs AoZ, Mafia, CoN, Nightshade, and Wrath Unleashed.

[The green colored titles are semi-exclusives - to P2 and XB; the purple colored ones are multi-plats that (even) the GC got.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Maybe Nintendo can take care of its "third party woes" if it stops putting out games.
</div>

They pretty much have... haven't they?!? :p

I'm actually somewhat serious here. I mean, their last game was Mario Kart, and that came out 3 months ago! Now their next one isn't due out until late March! That's when Pokemon Colisseum comes out. :rolleyes:

So really, the only new games that the kitties can buy right now, are third party games! :eek: Now the thing is... are they buying them? One thing's for sure, they'll be buying FF:CC. That game is guaranteed to be one of this months top sellers.

Speaking of FF:CC... I'm surprised I haven't heard any of our resident kitty kats talking about this game!?! Is it because they're all so engrossed in the game that they don't even have time to post about it... or what?!? Don't tell me you guys haven't bought it!?! I thought this title was one of the GC games that you guys were looking forward to the most this year?

--- --- --- ---

<div class=\"smallfont\"> dunno, Glockstar. I always felt like year 2001 was the best Gaming year, at least after August 2001...
</div>

2001?!?
You're gonna have to explain that one to me I'm afraid.

Oh... wait... don't tell me... I think I know what games you're talking about now. GTA III and MGcaca2, right? Hmmm... then again... Halo came out during that time period too, didn't it? :p

--- --- --- ---

<div class=\"smallfont\">It's probably just me but the only game I'm even marginally excited about this entire year is Resident Evil 4.
</div>

Wow.
So I see that you agree with me then... 2004 is looking like (somewhat of) a dissapointment, yes?

Dang, but you got a long wait tho'!
LOL

--- --- --- ---

<div class=\"smallfont\">Is there a Contra III port on the GBA?
</div>

Yes there is... Contra Advance: The Alien Wars EX!
Which came out, not this past holiday season, but the previous.

It was a game that I was eagerly looking forward too for a long time too (despite having a real witch of a time with the original version); it seemed to go thru A LOT of delays. Turned out to be a game that I would end up having no interest in however. Not so much because of the game itself (which is NOT a perfect port of the SNES game AT ALL btw), but because the "ergonomics" and lighting problems of the then GBA system.

The GBA-SP has certainly fixed the lighting problems, but the ergonomics are now worse. Much worse! Because of that, there aren't a whole lot of games for the GBA that I feel I can... "handle". And Contra Advance is not one of them.

--- --- --- ---

<div class=\"smallfont\">Mafia is not a PS2 exclusive, it's a PC game that's several years old...
</div>

And not only that, it's supposed to be coming to the XBox!

I probably shouldn't have listed it earlier, but as it stands right now, the PS2 is the only console system that you can play Mafia on. Whether it's actually worth playing or not?... that's another argument altogether.

["The Game"Evolution]

I agree with you 100% about the old Transformer cartoons. Any Transformer cartoon/GCI made after the movie just can't compare to the old ones. My favorite part in the movie was "Optimus Prime's Last Ride". When I saw that as a young lad, I think I let out a tear
:(

I have a cousin that loves playing Pokemon, so if she's good, I may rent Coliseum for her.

As far as Acclaim, I hope Alias ends up at least being playable, and not some piece of crap. Acclaim is also publishing the Showdown: Legends of Wrestling game (with Ultimate Warrior), so I hope that is a good title also.

Yes even I was almost in tears when Prime bit it at the hands of Megatron.Other than that the rest of the movie kicked ass!!! I'm trying to learn more about Pokemon and Dragonball Z.It can be confusing at times.But I'm trying.

As far as Acclaim's Wrestling games go they dont look bad they just has very limited gameplay compared to games from THQ.I mean if THQ had the Legends of Wrestling series it would be so much better.The latest one has the biggest list of legends I've ever seen.From Ultimate Warrior to Macho Man Randy Savage to the plump American Dream Dusty Rhodes.Alias on the other hand might be some good.But like I said before Acclaim's track record is so sucky its hard to know for sure what to expect from certain titles these days.

(So AOE Apocalypse are you enjoying the read? I just bet you are.)

[Hieremias]

And not only that, it's supposed to be coming to the XBox!

I probably shouldn't have listed it earlier, but as it stands right now, the PS2 is the only console system that you can play Mafia on. Whether it's actually worth playing or not?... that's another argument altogether.

The PC version stands in my all-time top ten list of games. It's spectacular, provides a wonderful story in an incredibly believable 1930s city which you're free to explore. It was heavily compared to GTA3, but Mafia absolutely put GTA3 to shame IMO. Better story (well, GTA3 practically has none), way better graphics, better environments, and more realistic chases.

Mind you it was released in 2002 I think, so it's not a state-of-the-art game today. And I have no idea what the PS2 version is going to be like. If it's anything like the way the PS2 butchered Max Payne 2, I wouldn't get all excited.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

<div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Speaking of FF:CC... I'm surprised I haven't heard any of our resident kitty kats talking about this game!?! Is it because they're all so engrossed in the game that they don't even have time to post about it... or what?!? Don't tell me you guys haven't bought it!?! I thought this title was one of the GC games that you guys were looking forward to the most this year?



You're not the only one surprised. Not a peep about this game since the release. Maybe it's the expensive multiplayer part of the game that's turning gamers off.

2001?!?
You're gonna have to explain that one to me I'm afraid.

Oh... wait... don't tell me... I think I know what games you're talking about now. GTA III and MGcaca2, right? Hmmm... then again... Halo came out during that time period too, didn't it?

Yep, it sure did. As a whole, 2001 wasn't that great (2003 does actually beat it), but during the Holiday season, I couldn't find enough time for all the good games back then, and I didn't even have an Xbox yet.


As far as Acclaim's Wrestling games go they dont look bad they just has very limited gameplay compared to games from THQ.I mean if THQ had the Legends of Wrestling series it would be so much better.The latest one has the biggest list of legends I've ever seen.From Ultimate Warrior to Macho Man Randy Savage to the plump American Dream Dusty Rhodes.Alias on the other hand might be some good.But like I said before Acclaim's track record is so sucky its hard to know for sure what to expect from certain titles these days.

If THQ could have signed Ultimate Warrior, I probably wouldn't consider Legends of Wrestling. Eventhough I'm interested in Alias, that's one I will not pick up until I have read some reviews on the game. When was the last time Acclaim had a good game? N64/early PS2 days?

I used to enjoy DragonBall Z, but due to its drawn out storylines and the fact that they do not know how to let enemies just die, I lost complete interest in the series and games.

[trebor]

Finally, someone that feels the same way I do. That T.V. series got me more into Transformers then the actual Transformers cartoon did.

Oh, I think Beast Wars / Beast Machines has a pretty nice-sized cult following now - made up of mostly dudes in their 20's - 30's too. It is by far the best representation of Transformers ever animated and I think it's a damn shame they decided to go back to the low-budget animation for Armada. I just wish Mainframe went on to do a third season of Beast Machines, but alas, it never came to be.

Not only was the animation quality the best for the series (at least around the Beast Machines period) but the storyline was, by far, the most coherent and sophisticated. Watching Beast Wars / Beast Machines and then going back to the original Transformers cartoons, it is such an incredible improvement - on every level.

Now if only they would hurry up and put all of it on DVD I will be a very happy Trebor.

[trebor]

Plus I'm sorry but the old Transformers cartoon couldnt be touched IMO.Beast Wars and the new Transformers sucked compared to the first two seasons.Autobots,Deceptagons,Dino-bots,Constructagons,Omega Supreme,Soundwave,Star Scream,Megatron,Prime,Rachet,Rumble;etc.They were the best.

Oh PUH-LEEZE! Once you can set aside nostalgic and sentimental attachments to the original Transformers cartoon you will be able to see how beautiful and incredible Beast Wars and Beast Machines really was. The animation was 1000 times better, the storylines were intertwined, and therefore, more sophisticated and the characters were just as cool as the originals.

Don't get me wrong, now, the original line of toys was better in those days, because they were all die-cast and super cool (although the Beast Wars/Machines toys were pretty cool too) - but the cartoons can't be compared. Beast Wars/Machines will be heralded as the best Transformers animated representation hundreds of years down the road.


Plus Transformers:The Movie was one of the best cartoons ever.My favorite part:Star-Scream:"Megatron,is that you?" Galvatron:"Heres a hint."BLAST!!!! Star Scream screamed like a biatch and then crumbled into a million pieces. From there it was"HAIL GALVATRON! LOL!!!


Dude, and this is coming from a stone-cold Transformers freak, Transformers: the Movie is NOT as cool as you remember it. I loved it back in the day, but nowadays it is a different story. You know how sometimes things you loved when you were a kid seem really lame and dumb to you nowadays? Same deal with the Transformers movie. It seemed so cool back then, but when you see it now you can see how crappy it is.

I'm way more excited about the upcoming Transformers live-action movie that is being made.

[trebor]

I agree with you 100% about the old Transformer cartoons. Any Transformer cartoon/GCI made after the movie just can't compare to the old ones. My favorite part in the movie was "Optimus Prime's Last Ride". When I saw that as a young lad, I think I let out a tear

I just don't get you guys. If you consider yourself to be a true Transformers fan, how can you not love Beast Wars/Machines?

Don't get me wrong here, because I used to love the original cartoon and I absolutely freaked out over The Movie, but the CG animated series is just plain better. I mean, Optimus biting the dust in the movie was a sad moment, but Cheetor single-handedly defeating the three Vehicon generals at the end of Beast Machines was about as intense as it gets.

It's kind of like Star Trek freaks who insist on thinking the original series is better, despite Next Generation having better characters, writing, effects and staying power. They must know that Next Generation is better, but they can't get past their sentimental attachments to the original series.

["The Game"Evolution]

Oh PUH-LEEZE! Once you can set aside nostalgic and sentimental attachments to the original Transformers cartoon you will be able to see how beautiful and incredible Beast Wars and Beast Machines really was. The animation was 1000 times better, the storylines were intertwined, and therefore, more sophisticated and the characters were just as cool as the originals.Your words.

Don't get me wrong, now, the original line of toys was better in those days, because they were all die-cast and super cool (although the Beast Wars/Machines toys were pretty cool too) - but the cartoons can't be compared. Beast Wars/Machines will be heralded as the best Transformers animated representation hundreds of years down the road. Your words.

Dude, and this is coming from a stone-cold Transformers freak, Transformers: the Movie is NOT as cool as you remember it. I loved it back in the day, but nowadays it is a different story. You know how sometimes things you loved when you were a kid seem really lame and dumb to you nowadays? Same deal with the Transformers movie. It seemed so cool back then, but when you see it now you can see how crappy it is.Your words.

I'm way more excited about the upcoming Transformers live-action movie that is being made.

The original Transformers cartoon was indeed the better cartoon compared to the"Graphic Whores"version of the Transformers of today.The feud with Megatron and Prime indeed was at its best back in the day.The original toys was better and the original cartoon was better.Your sappy generation loves the Transformers of today.I dont.

Oh please.The original Transformers movie had it all,Violence,a good story,sentimental moments,a few swear words,and a kick ass soundtrack.The Transformers of today is all about computer generated graphics with limited substance.

Why do you think the Star Wars movies of yesterday is considered by many as much better than the Star Wars movies of today? Same thing.

LOL! A live action Transformers movie would be a disaster.Same goes for a live action version of Dragonball Z.There is no way in hell either one would be done right on the big screen.No way.

[trebor]

The original Transformers cartoon was indeed the better cartoon compared to the"Graphic Whores"version of the Transformers of today.The feud with Megatron and Prime indeed was at its best back in the day.The original toys was better and the original cartoon was better.Your sappy generation loves the Transformers of today.I dont.

My sappy generation?! For all intents and purposes, I do believe we are in the same age bracket, so my "sappy" generation is your "sappy" generation as well.

Aside from that, you are on crack, my good man! First of all, I would think an Xboy® such as yourself would be able to appreciate the improved animation quality of Beast Wars/Machines. Second of all the fued between Megatron and Optimus is in every single iteration of Transformers! Every one since 1984 to today.

Perhaps the original toys were better, because they were die-cast back then and now they are plastic, but the Beast Wars/Machines toys more closely resembled their animated counterparts.


Oh please.The original Transformers movie had it all,Violence,a good story,sentimental moments,a few swear words,and a kick ass soundtrack.The Transformers of today is all about computer generated graphics with limited substance.

Violence and swear words make Transformers: the Movie better!? Spoken like a true Xboy®! The story was good, yes, and it also had sentimental moments, yes, but the soundtrack? The only good tune I recall was Dare To Be Stupid, by Weird Al Yankovic, during the battle with Wreck-Gar and the rest of the Garbage-Bots.

The Transformers of today are NOT computer generated - ONLY Beast Wars and Beast Machines were CG. But you're right about the Transformers cartoons of today, like Armada, are low on substance - very much like the original cartoons.

Beast Wars and Beast Machines, on the other hand, was the deepest Transformers animated representation ever. They had a consistant and ever-growing storyline - whereas the original series was on an episode by episode basis. Characters actually die in Beast Wars and Beast Machines, whereas the only time any character died in the originals was during the Movie.


Why do you think the Star Wars movies of yesterday is considered by many as much better than the Star Wars movies of today? Same thing.

Because they were originals - and people can't set aside their attachments to the OT Star Wars to judge the NT Star Wars on their own merits. Nobody gives Lucas any credit these days. They are not perfect, to be sure, but they are the best sci-fi movies that have been made since the OT, but nobody can admit that.


LOL! A live action Transformers movie would be a disaster.Same goes for a live action version of Dragonball Z.There is no way in hell either one would be done right on the big screen.No way.

I know how much you enjoy judging things you have no experience with, but I'm inclined to have high hopes for the live action Transformers movie in development. The director, whom I can't remember his name, stated they are going to do everything possible to make sure it's done "right". I just hope his definition of "right" is the same as mine.

["The Game"Evolution]

My sappy generation?! For all intents and purposes, I do believe we are in the same age bracket, so my "sappy" generation is your "sappy" generation as well.

Aside from that, you are on crack, my good man! First of all, I would think an Xboy® such as yourself would be able to appreciate the improved animation quality of Beast Wars/Machines. Second of all the fued between Megatron and Optimus is in every single iteration of Transformers! Every one since 1984 to today.Your words.

Perhaps the original toys were better, because they were die-cast back then and now they are plastic, but the Beast Wars/Machines toys more closely resembled their animated counterparts.Your words.

Violence and swear words make Transformers: the Movie better!? Spoken like a true Xboy®! The story was good, yes, and it also had sentimental moments, yes, but the soundtrack? The only good tune I recall was Dare To Be Stupid, by Weird Al Yankovic, during the battle with Wreck-Gar and the rest of the Garbage-Bots.Your words.

The Transformers of today are NOT computer generated - ONLY Beast Wars and Beast Machines were CG. But you're right about the Transformers cartoons of today, like Armada, are low on substance - very much like the original cartoons.Your words..

Beast Wars and Beast Machines, on the other hand, was the deepest Transformers animated representation ever. They had a consistant and ever-growing storyline - whereas the original series was on an episode by episode basis. Characters actually die in Beast Wars and Beast Machines, whereas the only time any character died in the originals was during the Movie.

Because they were originals - and people can't set aside their attachments to the OT Star Wars to judge the NT Star Wars on their own merits. Nobody gives Lucas any credit these days. They are not perfect, to be sure, but they are the best sci-fi movies that have been made since the OT, but nobody can admit that.

I know how much you enjoy judging things you have no experience with, but I'm inclined to have high hopes for the live action Transformers movie in development. The director, whom I can't remember his name, stated they are going to do everything possible to make sure it's done "right". I just hope his definition of "right" is the same as mine.

Good for them.I'll take the toys from the old days anyday over the toys of today.
Not true.The new transformers cartoon after the movie didnt have the Prime/Megatron feud.It was Oranimus Prime vs.Galvatron.Get it right Trebor.Plus just because the animation of Beast Wars/Machines are much better doesnt make it totally better than the original in other aspects.

What does being an Xbox supporter have to do with this? Nothing.I was simply telling you some of the reasons I felt Transformers:The Movie was so cool.Thats why I hold the movie and the original series in such high regard compared to the craptacular Transformers series of today.

So you think a live action Transformers movie is a good thing?Yeah right.Anytime you want to sit down and talk in depth about this I'm all ears.A live action Transformers movie would be disastrous.Lets face it the only director that could make this happen is James Cameron.

Plus it would have to have a budget beyond belief.And no doubt Industrial Lights & Magic would have to do the Special Effects.Not to mention in order for the film to be perfect it would have to take about two years to make.One year of filming and one year for post production.

As far as Star Wars go its like this:I enjoyed every Star Wars Movie since 1978.And I own every last one of them.However IMHO Star Wars Episodes 4,5,and 6 were better than episodes 1 and 2 was. And I still consider myself a Star Wars fan regardless.

And we wont even get into talking about a live action Dragonball Z.Hollywood will throw anything out there to make a buck.Anything.

[trebor]

Good for them.I'll take the toys from the old days anyday over the toys of today.
Not true.The new transformers cartoon after the movie didnt have the Prime/Megatron feud.It was Oranimus Prime vs.Galvatron.Get it right Trebor.Plus just because the animation of Beast Wars/Machines are much better doesnt make it totally better than the original in other aspects.

Oranimus Prime? You might need to check your sources again. Maybe you're right, and maybe you're wrong - I don't know, the most recent TF series I watched since the movie came out in the 80's happened to be Beast Wars and then Beast Machines. Optimus Primal and Megatron were the leaders in those two series.

Also, the reason I say the storyline is better in Beast Wars/Machines is because it is better. You might just need to trust me on that one.


What does being an Xbox supporter have to do with this? Nothing.I was simply telling you some of the reasons I felt Transformers:The Movie was so cool.Thats why I hold the movie and the original series in such high regard compared to the craptacular Transformers series of today.

We are going to need you to do a little critical thinking in the future - Xbox supporters put a lot of weight in how good games look, get it?

Besides, I never said the Movie was horrible and the original series sucked - I just said they aren't as good as you remember them and that Beast Wars/Beast Machines is better.


So you think a live action Transformers movie is a good thing?Yeah right.Anytime you want to sit down and talk in depth about this I'm all ears.A live action Transformers movie would be disastrous.Lets face it the only director that could make this happen is James Cameron.

Plus it would have to have a budget beyond belief.And no doubt Industrial Lights & Magic would have to do the Special Effects.Not to mention in order for the film to be perfect it would have to take about two years to make.One year of filming and one year for post production.

I think it could be a good thing - if it's done properly. And actually, at one point, James Cameron was attached to do the TF live-action movie - but then he decided to do Terminator 3 instead.

All I know is that Tom DeSanto has been mentioned in conjunction with the project, and in case you didn't know, he was one of the guys who produced the X-Men movies. You know of the X-Men movies correct? You know the ones that people thought would be "disastrous" and "impossible to make properly"? Well, the people who thought that before they were made were proved wrong - I'm detecting a pattern here.

If they film the whole thing in HD digital, then it will be able to be made quicker, cheaper and better.


As far as Star Wars go its like this:I enjoyed every Star Wars Movie since 1978.And I own every last one of them.However IMHO Star Wars Episodes 4,5,and 6 were better than episodes 1 and 2 was. And I still consider myself a Star Wars fan regardless.

Ditto. But that doesn't mean certain elements of Episodes 1 + 2 are not better than 4, 5, and 6 now. The lightsaber duels are about 100 times better in 1 and 2. The plot is also pretty good in comparison. Not to mention how excellent seeing Yoda kick butt was.


And we wont even get into talking about a live action Dragonball Z.Hollywood will throw anything out there to make a buck.Anything.

I could care less about Dragonball Z, frankly I don't understand peoples obsession with it.

[Deathstroke]

snip.

I never got to catch the end of Beast Machines though. Did they finally defeat Megatron? Was everything resolved? If it wasn't, Mainframe might well do the same thing they did with Reboot and release two movies to tie up a few loose ends and leave an opening for something more later down the line. I'm still pissed over the ending of My Two Bob's.

And I totally agree with you about the nostalgia bit. Try watching some of those old eighties action shows like the A team nowadays. UGH!!!!!!

["The Game"Evolution]

Oranimus Prime? You might need to check your sources again. Maybe you're right, and maybe you're wrong - I don't know, the most recent TF series I watched since the movie came out in the 80's happened to be Beast Wars and then Beast Machines. Optimus Primal and Megatron were the leaders in those two series.Your words.

Also, the reason I say the storyline is better in Beast Wars/Machines is because it is better. You might just need to trust me on that one.Your words.

We are going to need you to do a little critical thinking in the future - Xbox supporters put a lot of weight in how good games look, get it? Your words.

Besides, I never said the Movie was horrible and the original series sucked - I just said they aren't as good as you remember them and that Beast Wars/Beast Machines is better.Your words.

I think it could be a good thing - if it's done properly. And actually, at one point, James Cameron was attached to do the TF live-action movie - but then he decided to do Terminator 3 instead. Your words.

All I know is that Tom DeSanto has been mentioned in conjunction with the project, and in case you didn't know, he was one of the guys who produced the X-Men movies. You know of the X-Men movies correct? You know the ones that people thought would be "disastrous" and "impossible to make properly"? Well, the people who thought that before they were made were proved wrong - I'm detecting a pattern here.Your words.

If they film the whole thing in HD digital, then it will be able to be made quicker, cheaper and better.Your words.

Ditto. But that doesn't mean certain elements of Episodes 1 + 2 are not better than 4, 5, and 6 now. The lightsaber duels are about 100 times better in 1 and 2. The plot is also pretty good in comparison. Not to mention how excellent seeing Yoda kick butt was.Your words.

I could care less about Dragonball Z, frankly I don't understand peoples obsession with it.


Thats right Oranimus Prime.Remember in the end of Transformers:The Movie? The autobot that took the thing that was inside of Optimus Prime and put it inside of himself? He became Oranimus Prime.And from there he was the one that feuded with Galvatron for awhile.I am dead on.Dont knock Dragonball Z till you've tried it.

Well you have every right to feel the way you do.And so do I.Thats pretty weak,even for you Trebor.Xbox supporters dont put alot of weight in how good games look. All Gamers period do that.Not just Xbox supporters but PS2 and GC supporters as well.
Like I said you feel the way you do and I feel the way I do.Plus on the T3 thing you are WRONG! James Cameron did not direct nor produce T3.

I dont care who they get to direct this film if James Cameron or Steven Spielburg isnt at the helm of it you can take it to the bank:Transformers will indeed fail and It'll fail miserably.Granted it was nice to see Yoda kick some ass.And there was alot of great things that episodes 1 and 2 showed us.But overall I enjoyed the old ones better than these two.












.

[trebor]

I never got to catch the end of Beast Machines though. Did they finally defeat Megatron? Was everything resolved? If it wasn't, Mainframe might well do the same thing they did with Reboot and release two movies to tie up a few loose ends and leave an opening for something more later down the line. I'm still pissed over the ending of My Two Bob's.

And I totally agree with you about the nostalgia bit. Try watching some of those old eighties action shows like the A team nowadays. UGH!!!!!!

Oops! Sorry if I spoiled part of the ending for you, if I did in fact spoil it. Without spoiling it for you further let me just say that...the ending had a very good resolution, but with just enough of an opening where they could have added a third season or done a movie if they decided to.

But if you really want me to spoil the ending for you, with all of the juicy details therein, just send me an PM and I'll tell you.

[trebor]

Thats right Oranimus Prime.Remember in the end of Transformers:The Movie? The autobot that took the thing that was inside of Optimus Prime and put it inside of himself? He became Oranimus Prime.And from there he was the one that feuded with Galvatron for awhile.I am dead on.Dont knock Dragonball Z till you've tried it.


First off, it was Hot Rod who took The Autobot Matrix of Leadership at the end of TF:The Movie and he became Rodimus Prime - NOT Oranimus. Rodimus. Sheesh! I thought you liked that movie!

Also, I have "tried" Dragonball Z. Therefore, I will knock it, thank you very much.


Well you have every right to feel the way you do.And so do I.Thats pretty weak,even for you Trebor.Xbox supporters dont put alot of weight in how good games look. All Gamers period do that.Not just Xbox supporters but PS2 and GC supporters as well.
Like I said you feel the way you do and I feel the way I do.Plus on the T3 thing you are WRONG! James Cameron did not direct nor produce T3.


# 1 - learn to take a joke.

# 2 - I never saw T3, so you are probably right about Cameron in that respect. I still heard he was interested in the TF live-action movie at one point, though.


I dont care who they get to direct this film if James Cameron or Steven Spielburg isnt at the helm of it you can take it to the bank:Transformers will indeed fail and It'll fail miserably.Granted it was nice to see Yoda kick some ass.And there was alot of great things that episodes 1 and 2 showed us.But overall I enjoyed the old ones better than these two.


Ahhh..yes. There is the stubborn as a jackass, uneducated "The Game" we love so very much! Why are you so sure it will "fail"? Considering until I told you, you knew NOTHING about it - so why so quick to pass judgement?

["The Game"Evolution]

First off, it was Hot Rod who took The Autobot Matrix of Leadership at the end of TF:The Movie and he became Rodimus Prime - NOT Oranimus. Rodimus. Sheesh! I thought you liked that movie! Your words.


Also, I have "tried" Dragonball Z. Therefore, I will knock it, thank you very much.Your words.

I guess you didnt try hard to understand Dragonball Z.



# 1 - learn to take a joke.

# 2 - I never saw T3, so you are probably right about Cameron in that respect. I still heard he was interested in the TF live-action movie at one point, though.Your words.

#

Ahhh..yes. There is the stubborn as a jackass, uneducated "The Game" we love so very much! Why are you so sure it will "fail"? Considering until I told you, you knew NOTHING about it - so why so quick to pass judgement?

Considering how alot of movies based off of comic characters have gone to the crapper how can you now feel the way I do about this? Other than X-men and Spider Man alot of these kinds of movies has truly sucked big time.

But I was right overall wasnt I? Yep.Nuff said.So what I spelled the name wrong.I still got my facts straight.

#1-I can joke with the best of them

#2 I know you never saw T3.I have.

Regardless,I rather have an experienced director at the helm of a live action Transformer Movie like a Cameron or a Spielberg than someone that hasnt had much experience in the movie industry.

Apparently you're in need of something Trebor.You're losing it son.

[Deathstroke]

Oops! Sorry if I spoiled part of the ending for you, if I did in fact spoil it. Without spoiling it for you further let me just say that...the ending had a very good resolution, but with just enough of an opening where they could have added a third season or done a movie if they decided to.

But if you really want me to spoil the ending for you, with all of the juicy details therein, just send me an PM and I'll tell you.

Naah, don't worry. Spoilers don't mean all that much to me. I've never been bothered by them.

[trebor]

Considering how alot of movies based off of comic characters have gone to the crapper how can you now feel the way I do about this? Other than X-men and Spider Man alot of these kinds of movies has truly sucked big time.

Well, neither X-Men or Spider-Man was directed by Cameron or Spielberg, so maybe you should, oh I don't know, wait and see?


But I was right overall wasnt I? Yep.Nuff said.So what I spelled the name wrong.I still got my facts straight.

No you weren't "right overall" - you didn't even come close! You barely managed to remember two things correctly. In case you forgot, this is actually what you told me...


Thats right Oranimus Prime.Remember in the end of Transformers:The Movie? The autobot that took the thing that was inside of Optimus Prime and put it inside of himself? He became Oranimus Prime.And from there he was the one that feuded with Galvatron for awhile.I am dead on.

The "autobot" was Hot Rod. The "thing" was the Autobot Matrix of Leadership. And he became Rodimus Prime. And, I'm sorry, you couldn't be further from "dead on".


#1-I can joke with the best of them

#2 I know you never saw T3.I have.

Regardless,I rather have an experienced director at the helm of a live action Transformer Movie like a Cameron or a Spielberg than someone that hasnt had much experience in the movie industry.

Apparently you're in need of something Trebor.You're losing it son.

Like I say, Cameron nor Spielburg directed X-Men or Spider-Man. Now be quiet.

["The Game"Evolution]

Well, neither X-Men or Spider-Man was directed by Cameron or Spielberg, so maybe you should, oh I don't know, wait and see?Your words.

No you weren't "right overall" - you didn't even come close! You barely managed to remember two things correctly. In case you forgot, this is actually what you told me...



The "autobot" was Hot Rod. The "thing" was the Autobot Matrix of Leadership. And he became Rodimus Prime. And, I'm sorry, you couldn't be further from "dead on"

Like I say, Cameron nor Spielburg directed X-Men or Spider-Man. Now be quiet.

Nice attempt at sarcasm but as usual it fell a little limp.Bryan Singer and Sam Raimi directed The X-men and Spider-Man.The main reason why both guys did extroadinary jobs with those films is because they both did their homework on both characters history.I dont think that anyone else outside of Cameron,Spielburg,Raimi,Singer,or Richard Donner for that matter could serve a live action Transformers Movie justice.

I remember the basics and you filled in the names for deal on Transformers:The Movie.Good for you Trebor.You got 1up on"The Game."Good job.Want a cookie?

Oh please go choke on your own vomit son.When the director of "Crouching Tiger,Hidden Dragon"directed the farce called"The Hulk"this was the ultimate slap in the face of anyone that idolized or worshipped a comic character.

If you would take your head out of your pie-hole you would see that I would love to see a Live action Transformers movie.(Long as its done right)But I dont want to see one if its not going to be directed by someone that knows their stuff like the list of directors that I mentioned.Thats all I'm saying.Other than that man take a midol or something.Chill out a bit.

[trebor]

Nice attempt at sarcasm but as usual it fell a little limp.Bryan Singer and Sam Raimi directed The X-men and Spider-Man.The main reason why both guys did extroadinary jobs with those films is because they both did their homework on both characters history.I dont think that anyone else outside of Cameron,Spielburg,Raimi,Singer,or Richard Donner for that matter could serve a live action Transformers Movie justice.

Way to name drop! But there are plenty of directors that are quite capable, but not necessarily "right" to do the new TF movie. Richard Donner though? What has he done other than 4 Lethal Weapon movies?

Still though, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge something that isn't even in existence yet.


I remember the basics and you filled in the names for deal on Transformers:The Movie.Good for you Trebor.You got 1up on"The Game."Good job.Want a cookie?

Yes. Yes I do want a cookie.


Oh please go choke on your own vomit son.When the director of "Crouching Tiger,Hidden Dragon"directed the farce called"The Hulk"this was the ultimate slap in the face of anyone that idolized or worshipped a comic character.

I actually liked The Hulk. Perhaps it was too "arty" or "high brow" for the drooling masses, but I actually appreciated Ang Lee's attempt to break from the standard comic book to movie formula that is so prevalent these days.


If you would take your head out of your pie-hole you would see that I would love to see a Live action Transformers movie.(Long as its done right)But I dont want to see one if its not going to be directed by someone that knows their stuff like the list of directors that I mentioned.Thats all I'm saying.Other than that man take a midol or something.Chill out a bit.

Well, seriously, duh. I want to see a new TF movie done right, not butchered by an MTV generation director.

What's with the potty humor? How old are you again? Maybe I'm NOT in your generation afterall.

["The Game"Evolution]

Way to name drop! But there are plenty of directors that are quite capable, but not necessarily "right" to do the new TF movie. Richard Donner though? What has he done other than 4 Lethal Weapon movies? Your words..

Still though, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge something that isn't even in existence yet.

Yes. Yes I do want a cookie. Your words.

I actually liked The Hulk. Perhaps it was too "arty" or "high brow" for the drooling masses, but I actually appreciated Ang Lee's attempt to break from the standard comic book to movie formula that is so prevalent these days.Your words.

Well, seriously, duh. I want to see a new TF movie done right, not butchered by an MTV generation director.

What's with the potty humor? How old are you again? Maybe I'm NOT in your generation afterall.

Potty humor? Whats wrong with that? The world needs more of it.

Are you kidding? Richard Donner has done lots of films over the last 20 years including one of the best films ever:1978's Superman.Hes one of the most underrated directors of our time.

After disastrous films like "The Hulk","Daredevil",and "Batman & Robin" I cant help but be very judgemental this early.When you shy away from the things that made the comic a household name to begin with your product will produce a stench that wont be tolerated by the legion of fans thats supported the franchise in the beginning.

How pathetic.You liked The Hulk huh? Why dont you take a crap,grab every Hulk comic that Stan Lee put his John Hancock on over the last 25-30 years and wipe your ass with it.By saying you actually like it the way it was you might as well had smeared crap all over Stan Lee's face.

Because this movie was the biggest slap in every comic collectors face.They didnt simply break from the comic book they totally altered the entire story all together.Totally changing the origin of The Hulk was unexcusable.Totally unexcusable.No gamma explosion,no mention of Rick Jones,and the last time I checked Bruce Banner didnt have any parents living in the original comic either.Sorry but thats way to much BS to throw into a flick based off of a comic.

At least we agree that if we have to endure a live action movie of Optimus and the crew at least let it be done right.

[trebor]

How pathetic.You liked The Hulk huh? Why dont you take a crap,grab every Hulk comic that Stan Lee put his John Hancock on over the last 25-30 years and wipe your ass with it.By saying you actually like it the way it was you might as well had smeared crap all over Stan Lee's face.

Because this movie was the biggest slap in every comic collectors face.They didnt simply break from the comic book they totally altered the entire story all together.Totally changing the origin of The Hulk was unexcusable.Totally unexcusable.No gamma explosion,no mention of Rick Jones,and the last time I checked Bruce Banner didnt have any parents living in the original comic either.Sorry but thats way to much BS to throw into a flick based off of a comic.

What are you even talking about? Have you actually ever read the Hulk comics? Oh, because he was hit by gamma radiation as a result of a science experiment instead of a gamma bomb explosion, it isn't good enough for you?

Bruce Banner actually did have parents in the comic - and the movie was fairly accurate in the background for them. For one thing, his mom was killed by his dad - that was in the comic. For another thing, Bruce's abuse from his dad in the comics was a key psychological factor for his metamorphasis to the Hulk - just like in the movie.

I think Ang Lee's interpretations are just fine.

Since you are biatching about liberties taken in comic book adapted movies, why aren't you complaining about the fact that Nightcrawler is actually Mystiques son - yet it is completely left out of the movie, X-Men 2?

Or how the ending of Spider-Man was not accurate to the comics? In the comics, the Green Goblin does make Spidey choose between saving a group of people and the woman he loves. Except that the woman is Gwen Stacey and she ends up dying. That was totally different to the movie, but the movie still rocks.

You are a very confused and disturbed individual, I must say.

["The Game"Evolution]

What are you even talking about? Have you actually ever read the Hulk comics? Oh, because he was hit by gamma radiation as a result of a science experiment instead of a gamma bomb explosion, it isn't good enough for you?Your words..

Bruce Banner actually did have parents in the comic - and the movie was fairly accurate in the background for them. For one thing, his mom was killed by his dad - that was in the comic. For another thing, Bruce's abuse from his dad in the comics was a key psychological factor for his metamorphasis to the Hulk - just like in the movie.

I think Ang Lee's interpretations are just fine.

Since you are biatching about liberties taken in comic book adapted movies, why aren't you complaining about the fact that Nightcrawler is actually Mystiques son - yet it is completely left out of the movie, X-Men 2? Your words.

Or how the ending of Spider-Man was not accurate to the comics? In the comics, the Green Goblin does make Spidey choose between saving a group of people and the woman he loves. Except that the woman is Gwen Stacey and she ends up dying. That was totally different to the movie, but the movie still rocks.

You are a very confused and disturbed individual, I must say.

Yes I am a dusturbed individual.But confused? No way.No that wasnt good enough for me at all.Its one thing to improvise the origin of a superhero.Its another to totally change it completely.

Well it also depends on which edition of the Hulk comic you're referring to as well.Remember Hulk has been around since the 60's.Ang Lee's interpretations of what the Hulk was supposed to be about totally blew.Rick Jones wasnt even mentioned in the movie.How big a slap in the face was that? Rick Jones was the essential reason why The Hulk was created in the first place.How can you overlook that?

Very good point about the Mystique/Nightcrawler thing.However there is room for that little tidbit of info to come out in X-men 3 isnt it? Yep.I could also raise hell about the fact that in the original comics Iceman was an adult and not a teenager.

I could also raise a fit about the fact that that they really dont even talk about the original X-men group:Angel,Beast,Marvel Girl,Cyclops,Iceman,and Professeur X.People like Wolverine,Storm,Nightcrawler,and the rest of the crew wasnt heard of until the 80's.But at least they looked and sounded like themselves on the big screen.Thats more than I can say about the way The Hulk was portrayed on screen.

In alot of Comic book adaptions changes and sacrifices are made.We know that.Yes some things was changed around,but the main things that mattered remained intact.(Hmm..I remember when The Jackal made a clone of Gwen Stacey and Spider Man back in the day.That was a good book)

Nothing is going to be perfect in these types of movies.But some facts simply shouldnt be changed here.Plus what they plan to do with The Punisher really has me boiling as well.Not the Frank Castle I remember.