Nintendo Presidents: Delusions of Grandeur?

[Gadfly2317]

Some recently translated statements from current President Iwata and past president Yamauchi. They say some pretty far out things--even the things I agree with sound pretty out of touch with the market (like Yamauci's statement: "We cannot guarantee interesting and fun games just by using better technology and increasing the functions of the machines") Nintendo is an ideology based game company, and you can tell they have a definite philosphy about what gaming should be. Whether or not they have their head screwed on straight from a business point of view is questionable. Check out the article:

http://game-science.com/news/000406.html

The most interesting thing to me--I found it to be a real bit of news--is that the old president Yaumachi claims the DS is his idea, that it will be his final contribution to the company, and that from now on he won’t meddle in management. He also said his hopes are that the DS will “expand the market” and lift Japan out of its economic depression. Damn!!! Those are some tall orders. The reason I titled this thread “delusions of grandeur” is that not only is he hoping this one system will reverse the fortunes of an entire country, but then Yamauchi said "If the DS succeeds, we will rise to heaven, but if it fails we will sink to hell." I just fail to see the DS either raising them to heaven, OR sinking the company.

So how well the new Nintendo Split-Screen portable do? I have no idea, but at least things are starting well. Here's a summary of a Famitsu article titled "Nintendo DS Receives Overwhelming Positve Feedback from Japanese Developers." It has lots of quotes from Japanese game makers on their thoughts on how this will affect creativity and game development:

http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1076772210

[Gadfly2317]

For those short on time, I thought I'd just put a few of the developer comments on Nintendo's new Dual Screen system. The reason I'm putting this in Systems Wars is the DS is a new system competing for gamers dollars and attention, and pretty soon Sony and Nintendo will be having a hand-held systems wars. Anyway, here's some of what developers had to say:

Atlus' Okada -- "With 2 screens and 2 CPUs, I feel we can start to create new game concepts. Whether we can turn these new ideas into reality is the key for the industry."

Camelot's Hiroyuki Takahashi -- "In a game industry that is feeling more and more penned in, this should create a few openings."

Namco's Yoshizumi -- "When I first heard it would have 2 screens, I thought it was a Game & Watch remake, but on further inspection I found it is different. I'm excited by it, and I also have an overwhelming feeling. I think the hardware will be very good at creating intense feelings"

Sonic Team's Yuji Naka -- "We've been waiting for this! We'll be sure to try out something new with this, and release something for the launch!"

Amusement Vision's Nagoshi -- "The first time I saw it, I thought "?", then when reading the specs, that turned into "!" This is a machine that will stimulate both the users' and the creators' desire to play games. It should allow the birth of a whole host of new ideas and play experiences that haven't existed before."

Chunsoft's Nakamura -- "It looks like this may resolve all the hardship we have had until now in one swift blow. The roots of gaming are returning and it looks like they will put up a good fight"

Tetsuya Mizuguchi -- "Having two separately functioning screens suits the time perfectly - with users becoming increasingly multi-tasking. I'll be keeping my eye on it!"

[GameLegend]

Although I am really interested and enthusiastic about Nintendo DS, I cant help but feel that Nintendo in a way is contradicting its own philosophy of being simlicitic. I remember reading many interviews about how Nintendo's aim is to keep games very simple so that the gamer could get indulged into the game really easily. Suddenly having 2 screens for their eyes to focus at, I dont see how the Nintendo DS is following Nintendo's philosophy.

[Renzatic Gear]

Well the guy is Japanese...if there's one thing the Japanese are known for it's their hyperbole.

[GamersReality!!]

Sounds like desperation for losing the console war.

DS is a easy concept to copy. By Nintendo announcing it, Sony and Microsoft will have some teams working on it.

It not original. Some PC gamers use Dual Screens aka multiple monitors.
I use to play Everquest and do my work at the same time.

[Glockstar]

Namco's Yoshizumi -- "When I first heard it would have 2 screens, I thought it was a Game & Watch remake...

S'funny... that was exactly my thought as well!

["The Game"Evolution]

Well the guy is Japanese...if there's one thing the Japanese are known for it's their hyperbole.

Its true,its damn true!

[Xguy]

Sounds like desperation for losing the console war.

That's probably because GC doesn't have a Hemi like your console does! Why is it that every post I read has someone saying something about Nintendos "last ditch effort" or their "desparate move"? I'm pretty sure that they are going to be just fine.

I do find this interesting though: DS is a easy concept to copy. By Nintendo announcing it, Sony and Microsoft will have some teams working on it.

Sound like that would be a desparate attempt by Chevy and Dodge...oops...I mean Sony and MS to keep up with Ford...I mean Nintendo.

[GameLegend]

Sounds like desperation for losing the console war.

DS is a easy concept to copy. By Nintendo announcing it, Sony and Microsoft will have some teams working on it.

It not original. Some PC gamers use Dual Screens aka multiple monitors.
I use to play Everquest and do my work at the same time.

Exactly what i excepted, how come so many fools keep mentioning how this move or that move is going to be the last desperate attempt by Nintendo for over a year. Some of u guys have such a one-track mind. I bet if they annouced this concept on the PSP first, dumb fanboys will be praising it to death.

I doubt Nintendo is going to go bankrupt if this concept doesnt fly and that yamachi guy is just being melodramatic.

[Xguy]

Right on! I'm not entirely partial to any one system, but I can really respect a lot of what Nintendo does. They consistantly wait to release platforms until they are rock solid, and when they do, they have a product that is consistantly of good quality. They also don't seem to need to follow in the foot steps of their competition. They set the bar for themselves, whereas the others seem focused on speed to market and upstaging the latest from the competition.

As a former corporate employee of a major electronics chain, I can tell you that after working with all three copanies firsthand, Sony and MS are a royal pain compared to Nintendo. Not that Nintendo is all peaches, but at least they aren't the empire that the other two are. Working with Sony on anything is a pain like you wouldn't believe, and you can imagine what MS is like.

[trebor]

Right on! I'm not entirely partial to any one system, but I can really respect a lot of what Nintendo does. They consistantly wait to release platforms until they are rock solid, and when they do, they have a product that is consistantly of good quality. They also don't seem to need to follow in the foot steps of their competition. They set the bar for themselves, whereas the others seem focused on speed to market and upstaging the latest from the competition.

As a former corporate employee of a major electronics chain, I can tell you that after working with all three copanies firsthand, Sony and MS are a royal pain compared to Nintendo. Not that Nintendo is all peaches, but at least they aren't the empire that the other two are. Working with Sony on anything is a pain like you wouldn't believe, and you can imagine what MS is like.

You are new around here, so I'll cut you some slack, but you're going against the grain in terms of System Wars established information.

Basically, Nintendo is evil, greedy, tired, and "only in it for the money", while M$ and Sony are darling little angels who are in the videogame industry for the good of mankind - and not to make a buck.

So to reiterate...

Nintendo = bad :mad:

Sony and M$ = charitable philanthropists :)

The way you are talking might make people think negative thoughts about Sony and M$, and we surely cannot be having that.

[The Prince of Darkness]

You are new around here, so I'll cut you some slack, but you're going against the grain in terms of System Wars established information.

Basically, Nintendo is evil, greedy, tired, and "only in it for the money", while M$ and Sony are darling little angels who are in the videogame industry for the good of mankind - and not to make a buck.

So to reiterate...

Nintendo = bad :mad:

Sony and M$ = charitable philanthropists :)

The way you are talking might make people think negative thoughts about Sony and M$, and we surely cannot be having that.

Here is my take:

MS = greedy company that wants to dominate the world
Sony = charitable philanthropists
Nintendo = stupid oldschool company that is unwilling to change with the times

[Xguy]

Oh my dear Prince of Darkness...

You silly silly person. Sony is a garbage a company. They are as evil as the Prince of Darkness (the real one).

As far as changing with the times...how is your two controller setup working on your PS2?

[trebor]

Here is my take:

MS = greedy company that wants to dominate the world
Sony = charitable philanthropists
Nintendo = stupid oldschool company that is unwilling to change with the times

Well, speaking of stink, here is the Devil himself! I gotta say, your sulfer and brimstone cologne has got to go! :eek:

Otherwise, yes, your take on it certainly makes more sense and is obviously more realistic. In fact, it makes so much more sense and is so much more realistic I just don't think I can stand it! Sometimes there is just so much sense and realisticness in the world that I just don't think I can take it!

[trebor]

Oh my dear Prince of Darkness...

You silly silly person. Sony is a garbage a company. They are as evil as the Prince of Darkness (the real one).

As far as changing with the times...how is your two controller setup working on your PS2?

Hey you. Just because my Bally's Astrocade, circa 1980, has 4 controller ports and Sony's PS2, circa 2000, has only 2 doesn't make them "behind the times". It just makes them all the more charitable and philanthropic for selling a multitap for $40.

Perhaps you, Xguy, just can't handle how incredibly extreme Sony is. They are, in fact, so incredibly extreme that you can't even handle their extreme charity and extreme philanthropy.

Maybe the problem isn't that Sony is so ahead of the times with having 2 extreme controller ports, is that you just can't handle their extreme, in your face charity. Their, extremitude if you will, with their philanthropy.

[Xguy]

A very good point trebor...I am in fact, not ready for Sony's extimitude. They should rename their next system XPS. Now that would be one extreme box!

[trebor]

A very good point trebor...I am in fact, not ready for Sony's extimitude. They should rename their next system XPS. Now that would be one extreme box!

The sad thing is there really is a Playstation called the "PSX". You know, the one with the built in DVD-burner where they cut half the features right before release, yet kept the same pricepoint?

Now, does Sony cutting the features of their hardware right before it's released without changing the price sound like a company that isn't ahead of their time?

I mean, in their grand angelic wisdom, they knew that if they gave too much value for the consumer's dollar, said consumers would likely not be able to handle the extreme charity of having all the features Sony claimed it would have. Therefore, Sony cut the features for the good of mankind!

They really are a great bunch of guys, those Sony guys are!

[Gadfly2317]

Here is my take:

MS = greedy company that wants to dominate the world
Sony = charitable philanthropists
Nintendo = stupid oldschool company that is unwilling to change with the times

Sony= the Democrats AND Republicans. We know our choices are one in the same, and we suspect we are getting screwed, but as long as they keep bringing in acceptable pork, why bother your pretty little head about it?

MS=corporate money and lobbysists working for the powerful agianst the best interests of the people (gamers.)

Gamecube--the ineffectual and ignored progressive underdog idealist. If it were the size of the xbox, we'd call it the Michael Moore of video game systems. But alas, we are reduced to analogizing it as the Ralph Nader/green party of videogame systems.

And, out of the sake of kindness, I'll just skip the religious dogma implications raised by system fanboyism. Religion, politics, and system-fanboys...they're all cut from the same psychological bolt of cloth.

[Glockstar]

:rolleyes:

You know what I think is one of the most interesting things about your post, Gadfly?
It's the excerpts from the articles that you chose to quote.

Some recently translated statements from current President Iwata and past president Yamauchi. They say some pretty far out things--even the things I agree with sound pretty out of touch with the market (like Yamauci's statement: "We cannot guarantee interesting and fun games just by using better technology and increasing the functions of the machines") Nintendo is an ideology based game company, and you can tell they have a definite philosphy about what gaming should be. Whether or not they have their head screwed on straight from a business point of view is questionable. Check out the article:

The most interesting thing to me--I found it to be a real bit of news--is that the old president Yaumachi claims the DS is his idea, that it will be his final contribution to the company, and that from now on he won’t meddle in management. He also said his hopes are that the DS will “expand the market” and lift Japan out of its economic depression. Damn!!! Those are some tall orders. The reason I titled this thread “delusions of grandeur” is that not only is he hoping this one system will reverse the fortunes of an entire country, but then Yamauchi said "If the DS succeeds, we will rise to heaven, but if it fails we will sink to hell." I just fail to see the DS either raising them to heaven, OR sinking the company.
</div>

I read the exact same article as you did, but apparently different things jumped out at me, than they did you.

You know what I would've quoted?
Well, here, why don't I just show you - and in typical Shlockstar fashion, I'd like to bold certain elements... :D ...

Today's Nikkei Newspaper includes a discussion with Nintendo's Yamauchi, as well as an interview with the president of the company, Iwata.

Iwata:
(about the GC)
- The main reason for GC's surge in sales at the end of the year was the price cut
- We have been able to provide proof positive that the GC is not a dying platform
- We were looking for the right time to drop the price from early 2003

(medium term targets)
- Today's games are complex and take time to produce - the age where we would struggle with graphics and memory is over
- Yamauchi has the genius perception to see the customers' trends

(about the next generation)
- It's not clear what other companies are trying to achieve with their new consoles, we will not make something incomplete just for the sake of it
- Nintendo's hardware development team is thinking about when we should release the next machine

(about online games)
- But Nintendo doesn't hold a negative view of "net technologies"
- For example, we're thinking about new forms of play using wireless communication

Yamauchi:
- Because of other companies' pricing policies, we had no choice but to cut the price of the GC
- I think the game industry is maturing in different ways to those I imagined
- Gamers don't just want beautiful graphics, sounds and epic stories
- The next two years will decide Nintendo's fate

Ah say, 'Dang I love this article'!
LOL

Some comments then, if I may?
I mean, some of y'all are going to flame me regardless, right? ;)

First, Mr. Iwata...
- (about the GC) - I find that comment about the "dying platform" to be interesting - and more than a little revealing. What it says to me is, that they were, at one time, concerned about it! (But keep reading, I'll expound upon "my theory" in just a little bit.)

- (medium term targets) - You see the part I put into italics? Well, remember this line too.

- (about the next generation) - Having mastered the art of Reading-Between-The-Lines, it has just become clear to me now, that those rumours about the next Nintendo console are... still very much alive after all!

- (about online games) - Holy cow! They really are not going to get into on-line gaming are they?!? LOL

Now comes the fun part!

Mr. Yaumachi!...
- Okay now... Remember Mr. Iwata said that it was Nintendo's plan to drop the price of the GameCube pretty much 'all along'? Well the way Mr. Yaumachi puts it, it definitely sounds like the price cut was a reactionary thing - if not an outright act of desperation! So... who're you going to believe?!? LOL

- ROFLMAO... I'm sorry, I'm sorry... this is just too funny! Give me a minute here - WHOO! Okay... Mr. Iwata calls Mr. Yaumuchi a veritbale "genius" with regards to "customer trends"... LOL... then Mr. Yaumachi is later quoted as saying, "I think the game industry is maturing in different ways to those I imagined." Omigosh! Is that rich?!? Hey Yaumachi!... Ya think?!? LOL Way to go, Einstein! :rolleyes: Now if you could just talk to your successor...

- You know what the spooky thing about that last bolded part is? The next two years are the years that the console makers will be working on next systems! The way Yaumachi puts it, Nintendo might be saying, 'Sayonara. Arrivederci. Say"kaput." C'est fini. We're finished, you and me', at a time when the other two will be just saying HEL-LO!

Finally, I just want to say that I think both guys are deluded!!!
And it's no wonder Nintendo's in trouble.

(Also explains why I can't stand them any more. They're whacked; confused; out of touch; and immature... they're chimerical and quixotic. And worse... they've seemingly contracted Sega-disease! Youch!)

Of course, I'm just a Shlockstar... :p

[Gadfly2317]

:rolleyes:

You know what I think is one of the most interesting things about your post, Gadfly?
It's the excerpts from the articles that you chose to quote.

</div>

I read the exact same article as you did, but apparently different things jumped out at me, than they did you.




I thought you'd get a kick out of that article. There was ton of info, and plenty of reading between the lines to be done. That's why I just linked to it. I wasn't trying to limit the discussion to the couple things I quoted. . . I just quoted the two things I thought were just flat out insane hyperbole (The DS lifting Japan out of its economic slump when they've already stated they expect it to be a niche product selling maybe 10% of what the GBA does. :rolleyes: )

These guys. It really was quite the comedy routine. Kinda loony. Them being insane primadonnas doesn't lessen my respect for their actual games or products. . . I mean, Van Gogh lopped off his own damn ear for Christs sake, but it does lend credence to the theory that they could go third party next generation (I'm still skeptical, but less skeptical than before I read this article. Nintendo has very poor leadership. When Iwata spoke clumsily last week it dropped Nintendo's share price 10%. And he's done it more than once. Very lousy, unprofessional CEO, he needs replaced with someone who is not Yaumachi's ass-puppet.)

[The Prince of Darkness]

Oh my dear Prince of Darkness...

You silly silly person. Sony is a garbage a company. They are as evil as the Prince of Darkness (the real one).

As far as changing with the times...how is your two controller setup working on your PS2?

Xguy you are indeed the silly one here since apparently you don't see all of the good and wonderful things that Sony does for you. I mean it stands to reason that if Sony has sold like 50 million PS2's then they must be doing wonderful things...I just can't think of any.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Well, speaking of stink, here is the Devil himself! I gotta say, your sulfer and brimstone cologne has got to go! :eek:

Otherwise, yes, your take on it certainly makes more sense and is obviously more realistic. In fact, it makes so much more sense and is so much more realistic I just don't think I can stand it! Sometimes there is just so much sense and realisticness in the world that I just don't think I can take it!

Hellfire...by Giorgio...I'm glad you enjoyed it. Trebor---sometimes you have to get in touch with your evil side, just like yours truly, in order to fully appreciate reality.

[trebor]

Hellfire...by Giorgio...I'm glad you enjoyed it. Trebor---sometimes you have to get in touch with your evil side, just like yours truly, in order to fully appreciate reality.

Get in touch with my evil side?! That's all I got! :cool:

Trebor - Pure Evil, baby! :eek:

[trebor]

I thought you'd get a kick out of that article. There was ton of info, and plenty of reading between the lines to be done. That's why I just linked to it. I wasn't trying to limit the discussion to the couple things I quoted. . . I just quoted the two things I thought were just flat out insane hyperbole (The DS lifting Japan out of its economic slump when they've already stated they expect it to be a niche product selling maybe 10% of what the GBA does. :rolleyes: )

These guys. It really was quite the comedy routine. Kinda loony. Them being insane primadonnas doesn't lessen my respect for their actual games or products. . . I mean, Van Gogh lopped off his own damn ear for Christs sake, but it does lend credence to the theory that they could go third party next generation (I'm still skeptical, but less skeptical than before I read this article. Nintendo has very poor leadership. When Iwata spoke clumsily last week it dropped Nintendo's share price 10%. And he's done it more than once. Very lousy, unprofessional CEO, he needs replaced with someone who is not Yaumachi's ass-puppet.)

Oh, I don't think Iwata is so bad.

For one thing, Nintendo's stock-droppage came right after the bogus Nikkon report - Iwata was quick to stomp that rumor out.

For another thing, under Iwata's charge, Nintendo has patched up relations with some big 3rd party developers like Square and Konami.

Plus, the price drop coupled with a major hit like Mario Kart was a success - enough of a success to blow the Xbox out of the water for the holiday season. I'm not saying Iwata's perfect or anything, but considering the state of Nintendo when he came into power, he has performed well.

Considering how the state of Xbox's leadership stands, Nintendo is doing much better. Right now Xbox has no strong leader and nobody providing vision and soul for the system. I would be more worried about the future of the Xbox, based upon current leadership, then the future of the Gamecube.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Get in touch with my evil side?! That's all I got! :cool:

Trebor - Pure Evil, baby! :eek:

I don't think that is possible. If you were evil you would own an Xbox.

[trebor]

I don't think that is possible. If you were evil you would own an Xbox.

How do you know I don't own an Xbox? I might have been lying this whole time...it would certainly be the evil thing to do, wouldn't it?

Besides, you don't have to be evil to own an Xbox - just dumb! :p

[The Prince of Darkness]

How do you know I don't own an Xbox? I might have been lying this whole time...it would certainly be the evil thing to do, wouldn't it?

Besides, you don't have to be evil to own an Xbox - just dumb! :p

Well now I am truly stumped so....same to you and more of it buddy. You probably do own an Xbox, though, or I'll bet that you are thinking about buying one if the price drops and Ninja Gaiden pans out.

[trebor]

Well now I am truly stumped so....same to you and more of it buddy. You probably do own an Xbox, though, or I'll bet that you are thinking about buying one if the price drops and Ninja Gaiden pans out.

I was actually thinking about buying one when the price drops to $99 - so I can LAN with the one I have. :eek: Or would it be the first Xbox I would have? I just don't know... :confused:

I'm more interested in Crimson Skies and BG-DA2 then Ninja Gaiden. Or am I more interested in Ninja Gaiden then Crimson Skies and BG-DA2????

Will the deception ever stop??? Or start???

Confused yet?

[The Prince of Darkness]

I was actually thinking about buying one when the price drops to $99 - so I can LAN with the one I have. :eek: Or would it be the first Xbox I would have? I just don't know... :confused:

I'm more interested in Crimson Skies and BG-DA2 then Ninja Gaiden. Or am I more interested in Ninja Gaiden then Crimson Skies and BG-DA2????

Will the deception ever stop??? Or start???

Confused yet?

I am not confused at all. I think what you were saying is that you are going to buy an Xbox at regular price just so you can play Blinx and DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball.

Actually I am confused. What is BG-DA2?

[trebor]

I am not confused at all. I think what you were saying is that you are going to buy an Xbox at regular price just so you can play Blinx and DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball.

Actually I am confused. What is BG-DA2?

Ha ha. You got me. But actually, I was going to play a marathon session of Obi-Wan - HA!

BG-DA2 = Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance Two

[The Buzz]

Oh, I don't think Iwata is so bad.

For one thing, Nintendo's stock-droppage came right after the bogus Nikkon report - Iwata was quick to stomp that rumor out.

For another thing, under Iwata's charge, Nintendo has patched up relations with some big 3rd party developers like Square and Konami.

Plus, the price drop coupled with a major hit like Mario Kart was a success - enough of a success to blow the Xbox out of the water for the holiday season. I'm not saying Iwata's perfect or anything, but considering the state of Nintendo when he came into power, he has performed well.

Considering how the state of Xbox's leadership stands, Nintendo is doing much better. Right now Xbox has no strong leader and nobody providing vision and soul for the system.
I would be more worried about the future of the Xbox, based upon current leadership, then the future of the Gamecube.

First of all we really don't who's leading or providing vision and soul for the system now do we? For all we know there's nobody in charge over there in Xboxland at MS. Just a bunch of "wild and crazy" MS Xbot's running around "willie-nillie!"...no direction...no purpose...just waiting for the sky to fall....LOL!

Here's what I feel it comes down to...

The only thing the world has to worry about is the fact that Xbox is a MS product and when it comes down to it Bill Gates is the "leader" and runs the show. Xbox will be here for the next round. I'm not so convinced Nintendo will be...at least not with a direct next generation Game Cube replacement...whether they edge out Xbox this time in hardware sales or not. On the software side of things I've got to believe MS is doing better. I believe they have a higher game to console unit attachment rate.

Xbox came out of the gate and wasn't expected to make money for four or five years. It may eventually, as the cost of research, development, and design technology diminishes over time as hardware and especially software sales eat away the initial investments. Some consoles make money...some never do...others are introduced to be kind of a "lost leader" of sorts. They are the set up to get in the game and lay the foundation for future endeavors. If they actually start making any serious money that's a bonus. I believe Xbox is such a console. GC was expected to do much better out of the gate than it has so there's the rub. It was expected to be a real "seller" and make people forget the "ho-hum" success of the N64. So far it hasn't and that's not what Nintendo envisioned when it went into production a few years ago. That in and of itself may be enough to spell doom for any plans for the next generation GC. I hope not...the more the merrier I say. GC owners definitely have a top quality console but as I see it, it could very well be Nintendo's console farewell.

I wonder how many GC units would have sold if there was never any Xbox to compete with...20 million units to this point? 30 million? I have to believe closer to 20. I feel that the GC is going to end up very much like the N64...an underachiever when all's said and done.

[trebor]

First of all we really don't who's leading or providing vision and soul for the system now do we? For all we know there's nobody in charge over there in Xboxland at MS. Just a bunch of "wild and crazy" MS Xbot's running around "willie-nillie!"...no direction...no purpose...just waiting for the sky to fall....LOL!

Here's what I feel it comes down to...

The only thing the world has to worry about is the fact that Xbox is a MS product and when it comes down to it Bill Gates is the "leader" and runs the show. Xbox will be here for the next round. I'm not so convinced Nintendo will be...at least not with a direct next generation Game Cube replacement...whether they edge out Xbox this time in hardware sales or not. On the software side of things I've got to believe MS is doing better. I believe they have a higher game to console unit attachment rate.

Xbox came out of the gate and wasn't expected to make money for four or five years. It may eventually, as the cost of research, development, and design technology diminishes over time as hardware and especially software sales eat away the initial investments. Some consoles make money...some never do...others are introduced to be kind of a "lost leader" of sorts. They are the set up to get in the game and lay the foundation for future endeavors. If they actually start making any serious money that's a bonus. I believe Xbox is such a console. GC was expected to do much better out of the gate than it has so there's the rub. It was expected to be a real "seller" and make people forget the "ho-hum" success of the N64. So far it hasn't and that's not what Nintendo envisioned when it went into production a few years ago. That in and of itself may be enough to spell doom for any plans for the next generation GC. I hope not...the more the merrier I say. GC owners definitely have a top quality console but as I see it, it could very well be Nintendo's console farewell.

I wonder how many GC units would have sold if there was never any Xbox to compete with...20 million units to this point? 30 million? I have to believe closer to 20. I feel that the GC is going to end up very much like the N64...an underachiever when all's said and done.

Let me ask you a simple question - if M$ was never intending to make money from the Xbox, why did they get into the industry?

[The Buzz]

Let me ask you a simple question - if M$ was never intending to make money from the Xbox, why did they get into the industry?

They "wanted" it to make money if possible but what was really more important was to get the MS and Xbox "name" out into as many living rooms as possible. They "want" to ...make more money...expand their product lines and tapping into the home video game market is one way to do it. They need to establish name and product recognition in this market...Sony and Nintendo have it already. By the time Xbox 2 comes along they very likely will have 20+ million consoles already in place and that's a solid base to start phase "two"...that's where they feel the money is.

I think...LOL!

[trebor]

They "wanted" it to make money if possible but what was really more important was to get the MS and Xbox "name" out into as many living rooms as possible. They "want" to ...make more money...expand their product lines and tapping into the home video game market is one way to do it. They need to establish name and product recognition in this market...Sony and Nintendo have it already. By the time Xbox 2 comes along they very likely will have 20+ million consoles already in place and that's a solid base to start phase "two"...that's where they feel the money is.

I think...LOL!

That's funny, because it seems to me that M$ has, and has always had, the intention of becoming the "multimedia centers" of our households. Or in other words, they have taken it upon themselves to start the progression (or regression depending on how you look at it) of turning gaming consoles into PC's for the living room. Yea for M$! :rolleyes:

Now only if they cared as much about videogames as they do about becoming the electronic media nexus of the home of the future.

[Gadfly2317]

whether they edge out Xbox this time in hardware sales or not. On the software side of things I've got to believe MS is doing better. I believe they have a higher game to console unit attachment rate.
.

You'd better be believing on Blind Faith, because in the real world you'd be wrong. Yes, the attach rate is slightly higher on xbox. But you need to consider what is "doing better" on the software side of things.

Xbox has higher 3rd party sales. A console manfacturer gets something like a 5% royalty on games from another publisher that are on its system. The piece of the pie is much greater if MS or Nintendo themselves publish their own software.

Nintendo's total software attach rate is only slightly behind MS's (please don't ask for a link, I don't want to look for it and its been posted here several times.) BUT, Nintendo's first party software sells like hotcakes. Nearly a million copies of MK: DD already.

Aside from Halo, has MS had any lucrative first party success? Crimson skies, eh? Voodoo Vince? or even 2nd party Grabbed by the Ghoulies? They sink huge investment dollars into these games, and they aren't selling, so who gives a crap about a higher attach rate with third party games that only generate a 5% royalty. The game revenue dilemma is just ONE component of Xbox's 2 billion dollar a year loss.

AND NO STATED COHERENT STRATEGY TO CHANGE THIS.

[Glockstar]

You see, Gadfly? You can have a decent fact-based discussion.

Sure, the article(s) you posted are open to some interpretation, but hey... that's where the "discussion" part comes in, right? And here, our discussion is based on the fact that is your posted article. (And you know what I mean by "your".) What Iwata said, and what Yaumachi said, is there for everybody to see. It may be hyberbole, but it's not fabricated, invisible, or some figment of someones' imagination. It's all, undisputably, right there!

I thought you'd get a kick out of that article. There was ton of info, and plenty of reading between the lines to be done. That's why I just linked to it. I wasn't trying to limit the discussion to the couple things I quoted. . . I just quoted the two things I thought were just flat out insane hyperbole (The DS lifting Japan out of its economic slump when they've already stated they expect it to be a niche product selling maybe 10% of what the GBA does. :rolleyes: )

I do the same thing.

Of course, I don't just take excerpts from the articles I link to though, do I?
My bolding certain statements, or parts of certain sentences, isn't meant to insult anybody's intelligence... I'm just trying to make it clear to everybody what I'm about to comment on. And let y'all know what I'm using as my premises, without having to retype everything.

But it's good to see that you've got a sense of humour, and that you've brought it to the discussion, Gad. (Or at least, that you've managed to keep your emotions in check.) You do know that the opening to my post wasn't meant to be taken to seriously, right? That I just needed some kind of an intro, and was looking to write something that would all at once acknowledge what you had to say as well segue into my own... observations and assessments?

These guys. It really was quite the comedy routine. Kinda loony. Them being insane primadonnas doesn't lessen my respect for their actual games or products. . . I mean, Van Gogh lopped off his own damn ear for Christs sake, but it does lend credence to the theory that they could go third party next generation (I'm still skeptical, but less skeptical than before I read this article. Nintendo has very poor leadership. When Iwata spoke clumsily last week it dropped Nintendo's share price 10%. And he's done it more than once. Very lousy, unprofessional CEO, he needs replaced with someone who is not Yaumachi's ass-puppet.)

They're both cuckoo, there's no doubting that anymore.

If you're a fan of the company, then I can see how you'd be rooting for them to get their act together. But as an impartial observer, as I am now, I think this stuff is just... hilarious!

Ah heck, you know what tho'?... I do kind of wish they'd "go under" and just go strictly third party. I really do.

Like a lot of M$ hatas around have said that they wouldn't mind having an XBox, and a couple of it's games, but they but aren't wanting to spend any money on them, I kinda feel the same way about the 'Cube. I am glad that I got to play Metroid Prime and Wind Waker and Pikmin, and VJ, but I'm also a little miffed that I had to shell out an extra $100 just to play those handful of games! It'd be so much cooler if these games were just available for the XBox! :p

The reason why I'd rather see Nintendo go, rather than Microsoft is because... well... there's two reasons actually...
- 1) Nintendo just hasn't really brought anything new to videogames in a long time (not since the Rumble Pak). MS has! With the XBox, Microsoft has already set new standards with their many console gaming innovations, all despite the fact that this is their first foray into the console world. And the most impressive thing about them, is their resolution to make on-line gaming a reality for console gamers. Meanwhile, Nintendo has practically gone backwards, what with their rejections of obvious advancements. I say, their withdrawals make them seem... reclusive, and even unsociable.

- 2) Unlike Nintendo (despite what they've said in the past :rolleyes: talk about cuckoo!) I feel that if MS were to leave the console business, they might take their games with them. :eek: That is to say, that I fear they'd take all their games over to PC-land and keep them there... and that would mean no more: Halo, Crimson Skies, PGR, Mechassault, RSC, Amped, Munch's Oddysee, Voodoo Vince, or Links (or Fable, or BC, or Sudeki, or True Fantasy Live Online, or Jade Empire, or Perfect Dark Zero), for me! :(

I'm sorry, but this new fangled handheld, or whatever it is... this "DS"... that Nintendo wants to go forward with, does not excite me in the least. Innovation? I'm not so sure. More like... retardation! The thing just downright confounds me. Actually, it looks like a cyanide tablet to me - and I think Nintendo's going to kill themselves if they go thru with this thing! Oh well. But hey... if these articles are any indication, at least it'll be fun to watch and hear about! You know? Hee hee.

[Glockstar]

You'd better be believing on Blind Faith, because in the real world you'd be wrong. Yes, the attach rate is slightly higher on xbox. But you need to consider what is "doing better" on the software side of things.

Xbox has higher 3rd party sales. A console manfacturer gets something like a 5% royalty on games from another publisher that are on its system. The piece of the pie is much greater if MS or Nintendo themselves publish their own software.

Nintendo's total software attach rate is only slightly behind MS's (please don't ask for a link, I don't want to look for it and its been posted here several times.) BUT, Nintendo's first party software sells like hotcakes. Nearly a million copies of MK: DD already.

Aside from Halo, has MS had any lucrative first party success? Crimson skies, eh? Voodoo Vince? or even 2nd party Grabbed by the Ghoulies? They sink huge investment dollars into these games, and they aren't selling, so who gives a crap about a higher attach rate with third party games that only generate a 5% royalty. The game revenue dilemma is just ONE component of Xbox's 2 billion dollar a year loss.

AND NO STATED COHERENT STRATEGY TO CHANGE THIS.

I think there's two components to a consoles success... in order they are
1) support for the console
2) the console makes a profit

I think that the Sony consoles have proven that this is the order of importance. I mean, look how successful they were/are, despite the fact that Sony initially lost money on each of them.

This is why the industry (the makers, the gamers, the analysts, and the pundits) generally, as a whole, sees the GameCube as being in last place. Nintendo just doesn't have the full support that is needed; nor are they really doing anything about it.

The price drop and the subsequent sales spike has silenced the critics for the time being, but if it doesn't translate into increased sales for the third parties, then it really won't mean much. I don't think we'll know the full effect of the price drop for quite some time though.

The first sign that it's a success will, of course, be higher sales number for the third party games. If they're there (and the sales charts should reflect the GC's increased user base by now) then you will see third party confidence increase - and then probably more game announcements. You'll know if and when the GC has pulled it off when you start seeing more games in the GameCube section.

If these things don't happen, and the systems library remains scant, people will not game on it for very long. They will either box it up and put it in the closet - as a lot of us here have already done - or they will pawn it. Either way though, Nintendo games sales will ultimately suffer. And then where's their revenue going to come from? Certainly not from the system itself - not if it's losing them money now (at $99), like some analysts think it might be.

There's one other thing though, and you read about it in those articles you dug up for us... and that's Nintendo's own confidence. Why do you think they've actually made concerted efforts to secure more third party support? Why do think they've actually considered the system to be a something of a failure, something of a dissapointment, and something of "dying platform"? How could they think that, when it's made them nothing but money?!? Because the direct revenue it generates for them - which includes 1st-party software - doesn't matter as much as the other things, that's why!

If Nintendo was smart, they'd have put their early "profits" into developing more games for the GameCube. A LOT more! And a lot more adult-oreinted games too! Becuase they should have been picking up the slack left by the absence of third party titles. A bigger and more diverse library means a bigger and more diverse user base. Or that's the way the gaming companies look at it, anyway. With more adults in the fold, it would be a lot easier for the third-party publishers to make the decision to bring their games over. But... Nintendo hasn't been doing this have they? No, their vision of what console gaming should be seemingly dictates to them that they only make a handful of "quality" games a year. A handful of quality games that are geared towards kids - more so than adults. A handful of games!?! Not only is that not enough to keep the user base happy (especially when half of these games are aimed at the younguns), but it may not even be enough to make a living off of, if you know what I mean.

As you read in those articles though, Nintendo is clearly NOT smart - they're crazy! They put too much money into their GameBoys, into silly peripherals, and into half-baked innovations like the DS! The GameCube is seemingly looked upon by them as though it were a red-headed stepchild, I swear.

I'd rather be in Microsofts position, at least their crazy ideas (like on-line gaming, and harddrive) are supported by developers, publishers, analysts, and pundits. Even if they're not by gamers.

Onto a different subject...
How is it that you say that Microsofts 1st-party titles "aren't selling"?
I would agree that in comparison to other titles (especially those released for the PS2) they aren't selling as good, but I wouldnt say that they simply "aren't selling". Can you tell me why you're saying this?

[Gadfly2317]

This is why the industry (the makers, the gamers, the analysts, and the pundits) generally, as a whole, sees the GameCube as being in last place. Nintendo just doesn't have the full support that is needed; nor are they really doing anything about it.

If these things don't happen, and the systems library remains scant, people will not game on it for very long. They will either box it up and put it in the closet - as a lot of us here have already done - or they will pawn it. Either way though, Nintendo games sales will ultimately suffer. And then where's their revenue going to come from? Certainly not from the system itself - not if it's losing them money now (at $99), like some analysts think it might be.

Why do you think they've actually made concerted efforts to secure more third party support? Why do think they've actually considered the system to be a something of a failure, something of a dissapointment, and something of "dying platform"?

If Nintendo was smart, they'd have put their early "profits" into developing more games for the GameCube. A LOT more! And a lot more adult-oreinted games too! Becuase they should have been picking up the slack left by the absence of third party titles. A bigger and more diverse library means a bigger and more diverse user base. Or that's the way the gaming companies look at it, anyway. With more adults in the fold, it would be a lot easier for the third-party publishers to make the decision to bring their games over. I'd rather be in Microsofts position, at least their crazy ideas (like on-line gaming, and harddrive) are supported by developers, publishers, analysts, and pundits. Even if they're not by gamers.

Onto a different subject...
How is it that you say that Microsofts 1st-party titles "aren't selling"?
I would agree that in comparison to other titles (especially those released for the PS2) they aren't selling as good, but I wouldnt say that they simply "aren't selling". Can you tell me why you're saying this?

1.) I don't know that GC is viewed as last. I see articles in gaming magazines and in business articles that call the GC and XBox "neck and neck." Journalists are also lazy and tend to repeat what has become "the story." Kinda like how the 2000 campaign "the story" became Gore=boring and dishonest, Bush=stupid but nice christian, McCain=Angry and unstable. All of those were truly inaccurate portrayals. Same with GC and Xbox in most game journalism. GC=Kiddie and not succesful; MS= succesful (totally based on the fact that game journalists are hardcore usually and like the xbox, and also the impression that MS can do nothing but succeed simply because it is MS.)

2.)Scant game library? GC and Xbox both have about 300 games so far. It's clear Nintendo seems to be favoring the GBA with game development. I mean, why the hell couldn't they have Mario and Luigi Superstars into a beautiful GC game?

3.) More "adult" games to get more "adults" in the fold. I just don't know. A lot of adults do own GC. All of us here that own one are adults, and we all buy games like Mario Kart and Zelda and Pikmin to play on it. Nintendo fans really are all ages, even if the way the market has gone with gore/sex a lot more of teens and adults are going for other types of games now. I don't know if the investment into more gory adult games and heavily promoting them would have really drawn in PS2 and xbox gamers, or if it'd have just alienated parents who see GC as the platform with the best quality kids games on it. Yeah, Monkey Ball is a kids game, but I love it. Its a great game. "The Suffering" looks to me like a pretty cool game from what I played of the Demo, but I don't mind it not coming to GC. I'll play it on my xbox. That's the thing that hurts GC AND xbox. A lot of gamers--the ones who actually buy games instead of rent them--own more than one system, and I'm guessing I'm not unique in buying certain types of games for those systems. What I buy an play on my GC is different than what I buy on Xbox. Something like Ghoulies or Voodoo Vince, its like, nah, if I wanted cartoony cute theres better stuff on 'cube. Or GC, I bet a lot of adults looked right past Eternal Darkness and figured if they wanted to play survival horror they'd play silent hill or fatal frame on their PS2.

Who knows. I'm just rambling now at this point. If there is a point, its that I agree I wouldn't mind seeing MS and nintendo merge their talents and join forces against Sony. It'd be like that old commercial "Hey you got peanut butter on my chocolate." "No, you got chocolate on my peanut butter." (what was that a recsees peanut butter cup commercial?) I don't like spending tons of money on hardware to litter up my living room. I'd rather buy one system. I HAVE to buy a Nintendo system because I like their games too much, but then I HAVE to buy another system, because they just aren't the whole package anymore. Too many holes in their line-up. And too many holes in Xbox line-up. Actually, there would still be holes if they merged (Japanese RPG's) but they'd get a much larger user base and companies would develop games to fill the rest of the library holes, and then I'd never have to buy a playstation at all.

Later

[The Buzz]

You'd better be believing on Blind Faith, because in the real world you'd be wrong. Yes, the attach rate is slightly higher on xbox. But you need to consider what is "doing better" on the software side of things.

Xbox has higher 3rd party sales. A console manfacturer gets something like a 5% royalty on games from another publisher that are on its system. The piece of the pie is much greater if MS or Nintendo themselves publish their own software.

Nintendo's total software attach rate is only slightly behind MS's (please don't ask for a link, I don't want to look for it and its been posted here several times.) BUT, Nintendo's first party software sells like hotcakes. Nearly a million copies of MK: DD already.

Aside from Halo, has MS had any lucrative first party success? Crimson skies, eh? Voodoo Vince? or even 2nd party Grabbed by the Ghoulies? They sink huge investment dollars into these games, and they aren't selling, so who gives a crap about a higher attach rate with third party games that only generate a 5% royalty. The game revenue dilemma is just ONE component of Xbox's 2 billion dollar a year loss.

AND NO STATED COHERENT STRATEGY TO CHANGE THIS.

I guess they'd better check with you before they "state" their coherent strategy...to change this...yes...Gadfly2317 must be informed...first...

I'm so glad there's so many business majors and corporate chief financial officers around here that have the "inside" information on "royalities" and company strategies to set the record straight. I don't know what the royality % and I highly doubt you do either. I guess Shane Kim, Chief of MS Game Studios, is simply adrift in a boat and has no clue. I guess working hand in hand with Ed Fries the last eight years + means nothing. Poor guy.

It makes sense that Nintendo makes more money on their first party software (just can't get enough DK and Mario after all) I just thought that maybe MS was able to make it up in "overall" software sales. Oh well...

[Gadfly2317]

I guess they'd better check with you before they "state" their coherent strategy...to change this...yes...Gadfly2317 must be informed...first...

I'm so glad there's so many business majors and corporate chief financial officers around here that have the "inside" information on "royalities" and company strategies to set the record straight. I don't know what the royality % and I highly doubt you do either. I guess Shane Kim, Chief of MS Game Studios, is simply adrift in a boat and has no clue. I guess working hand in hand with Ed Fries the last eight years + means nothing. Poor guy.

It makes sense that Nintendo makes more money on their first party software (just can't get enough DK and Mario after all) I just thought that maybe MS was able to make it up in "overall" software sales. Oh well...

Yeah, royalty fees paid by third parties to the console manafuctuer are only about 5%--its negotiable of course, and the fee is less if the game is exclusive. So if Xboxers are buying a bunch of EA games, its good for EA, but a pretty small piece of the pie. If Crimson Skies or Voodoo Vince had raked in big numbers, that would have been a better revenue stream for MS, but it wasn't.

If you have the February issue of EGM they do a good job of breaking down some of the costs in bringing a game to market, and where the money goes.