Just some thoughts on Rare

[Gadfly2317]

I thought of this down in the GC forum while responding to something Bounty Hunter said.

Do you suppose the reason we've seen all the Rare projects dissappear is because they've been assigned to work on Perfect Dark O for the launch of Xbox 2?

I saw no sign they'd been working on PD0 at all. . . supposedly they were working on a Kart Racer (cancelled), Conker:Live and Uncut (rumored cancelled) and Kameo (haven't heard about it at all in a long time.) After Ghoulies, I wonder if they shifted all their development to making Perfect Dark an incredible xbox 2 launch title.

Because think about it, the whole reason to buy an xbox the first time around was Halo. But there's no way Bungie could have a Halo 3 ready for launch. So what incentive would people have to buy an xbox 2 right away rather than wait a year for price cuts and the inevitible Halo 3? What other exclusive game with high-name recognition could xbox2 launch with? And what better way to steal the thunder from the G5 than to launch with one of the biggest N64 games.

Would a truly incredible online Perfect Dark entice anyone here to go with xbox 2? If this game becomes the must-buy launch title for the Xbox 2, then maybe the Rare purchase will pay off for MS after all.

[Glockstar]

Conker:Live and Uncut (rumored cancelled) and Kameo (haven't heard about it at all in a long time.)

Gawd you guys make sick sometimes. Rumoured cancelled, eh?
And where'd you get that one from?!? From Geezer?!? HAW!
It's frickin' ridiculous that some of you people seemingly get your news from other posters on message boards - and furthermore, that you don't name your sources! C'mon. This is unsubstantiated nonsense, and it's bogus. Let's try to maintain some credibility around here, eh?

As far as Kameo goes... you'd "hear" plenty about it, if you subscribed to the OXM. :D I'm always seeing Kameo videos on the demo discs that come with. And I must say, it looks better, and better, and better, everytime I see it.

[Twelve]

Rare sucks. All the talent moved out. It's all about Free Radical Design now!!


12

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I think RARE is the worst move MS has made thus far. MS keeps chasing a crowd that doesn't exist on the XBOX, instead of cementing the fanbase they currently have, they keep chasing a fanbase they don't have. Some people think this is a smart move, but it is not. You can not enter the console business trying to appease all genres. You have to establish and cement your own name. XBOX was suppose to be the place for the hardcore gamer, but MS in many ways has let down the hardcore gamer.

They watered down MechAssault by making it a third person action game, instead of a cockpit based battle system. They took away the ability to outfit your own mech, these are things that made MechWarrior one of the best and most intense franchises I ever played on the PC. They spent untold resources on games like Voodoo Vince, Ghoulies, Blinx, and a handful of other failed platform games. These were 1st party games and MS says XBOX is for hardcore users? MS could have used those resources to develop exclusive hardcore products to compliment Halo and even surpass Halo. If you look at it, you have Halo(4 million sold), PG(over 2 million sold), BruteForce which sucked(over 500,000), PGR2(over a 1million thus far) and that is it from MS. The rest of the games, good or bad, haven't sold well. Nothing has come close to Halo. Now, i've enjoyed a lot of the other games, Crimson Skies, MechAssault, Fusion Frenzy, Oddworld, but they are not hardcore games. If MS had of used all those resources to develop 3 or 4 quality AAA hardcore games, you'd be looking at 3 or 4 other games selling like Halo has sold. Instead of a dozen games that have failed. What's worse MS is still not planning on developing it's own hardcore FPS(aside from Halo), military shooter or strategy game, simulation racer online. We are having to rely on 3rd party developers.

Look at Steel Battalion, this is not CAPCOM's game. It was an independent group of 20 programmers who made this game, but they needed publishing, advertising, distribution. Did MS bring this talented group under its umbrella, no, they let CAPCOM buy them. MS pursued Square, Rare, Sega, all of these companies are not known for their hardcore products. Do you know how many PC developers are on the brink of collapse? MS could have used the money they paid to RARE to buy at least 3 PC developers. How did Ubisoft get the team doing Splinter Cell, why is there no exclusive agreements with RedStorm for the Clancy games. And there are a ton of other situations, I know its not as easy as it sounds. But the direction and focus of MS energy is clear, they are trying to be like Sony and like Nintendo, instead of making their own niche. The XBOX in my mine was supposed to be the place for state of the art hardcore console games. If they had've followed this strategy they would have a much stronger fanbase that would be buying more software, and more loyal to the company. The sad thing is, it is not too late, if they would only listen. There are gamers all day long on LIVE saying things like this, "..XBOX needs this kind of game....i wish they would make a game where we could do this....I hope they change this or that in the next game..." Meanwhile, where is MS? Are they listening? So worried about what they don't have, but don't appreciate what they do have.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

First off, the only reason PD and 007 succeeded on N64 is the same reason SLOWCOM succeeded on PS2: NOTHING ELSE TO PLAY.

PD and 007, both had about 7 frames per second framerate which makes them both completely unplayable by todays standards(and PC standards back then as well), and both were basically cookie cutter.

I think MS made a huge mistake aquiring RARE because all RARE was really known for are Nintendo franchises.

AND WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG TO RELEASE RARE GAMES?!

[Gadfly2317]

Gawd you guys make sick sometimes. Rumoured cancelled, eh?
And where'd you get that one from?!? From Geezer?!? HAW!
It's frickin' ridiculous that some of you people seemingly get your news from other posters on message boards - and furthermore, that you don't name your sources! C'mon. This is unsubstantiated nonsense, and it's bogus. Let's try to maintain some credibility around here, eh?

As far as Kameo goes... you'd "hear" plenty about it, if you subscribed to the OXM. :D I'm always seeing Kameo videos on the demo discs that come with. And I must say, it looks better, and better, and better, everytime I see it.


I downloaded the old E3 footage of Conker and Kameo from Rare's site today. I don't know why they don't put up something new. It is my hope and expectation that these games will still come out. They look sweet, and were an important factor in my buying an xbox.

I think you missed the important point in the post in your zeal to nitpick at me. I was just speculating that maybe the bulk of Rare's development resources have been shifted in order to create PD0 for xbox 2. I have no idea, it was a pure speculation post.

I think it would be a great strategy on MS part. What else do you think they could use as a launch title that would excite the gaming world more? I find myself feeling really excited at the prospect of possibly seeing another masterpiece from Rare. Maybe Kameo will be a masterpiece.

I've always thought in terms of Graphics that Rare is one of the best at getting absolutely the most amazing graphics out of a system, and I am pretty stoked at the xbox 2 launching with something Rare really invests the time in.

Don't you think this would be a great launch title for xbox 2, especially if they want to steal some Nintendo thunder by launching with what was once a jewel in the Nintendo library?

(Oh, by the way Glock, who are "you guys" and why do we make you sick? I know when I'm doing Nintendo propoganda it annoys you, but this was essentially a pro-xbox post and one of the few around here that found an angle to explain how Rare could end up paying off for MS. Sometimes I think you are actually Massimodo, so eager to bash you can't even read a whole post, but just the parts you can find fault with :rolleyes: )

[no.1gamer]

PD and 007, both had about 7 frames per second framerate which makes them both completely unplayable by todays standards(and PC standards back then as well), and both were basically cookie cutter.

It's funny how you call Perfect Dark, "cookie cutter" when it has everything Halo has. Co-Op mode, Sweet multiplayer mode (with computer controlled bots) and the best enemy AI for a console FPS at the time. Granted that times have changed and now it would look pretty bad next to a modern FPS, but how can you bash them? They were the sweet in their time.

Anyways, I think that a Perfect Dark 0 would be a great launch title for the Xbox Next. But I also heard that most of the talent at Rare left the company. We'll have to wait and see I guess...

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I thought of this down in the GC forum while responding to something Bounty Hunter said.

Do you suppose the reason we've seen all the Rare projects dissappear is because they've been assigned to work on Perfect Dark O for the launch of Xbox 2?

I saw no sign they'd been working on PD0 at all. . . supposedly they were working on a Kart Racer (cancelled), Conker:Live and Uncut (rumored cancelled) and Kameo (haven't heard about it at all in a long time.) After Ghoulies, I wonder if they shifted all their development to making Perfect Dark an incredible xbox 2 launch title.

Because think about it, the whole reason to buy an xbox the first time around was Halo. But there's no way Bungie could have a Halo 3 ready for launch. So what incentive would people have to buy an xbox 2 right away rather than wait a year for price cuts and the inevitible Halo 3? What other exclusive game with high-name recognition could xbox2 launch with? And what better way to steal the thunder from the G5 than to launch with one of the biggest N64 games.

Would a truly incredible online Perfect Dark entice anyone here to go with xbox 2? If this game becomes the must-buy launch title for the Xbox 2, then maybe the Rare purchase will pay off for MS after all.


I'm unsure of what games are cancelled, but making Perfect Dark 0 for the Xbox2 release would be a good idea. Like you said, there's no way a Halo 3 would be ready, unless it was either rushed or watered down. I'm pretty sure Bungie and MS would not let that happen. As far as any games they release for the current Xbox, I think they should scrap the rest of the Gamecube leftover titles and make something that Xbox gamers would want to play.

[Bob-the-Fish]

First off, the only reason PD and 007 succeeded on N64 is the same reason SLOWCOM succeeded on PS2: NOTHING ELSE TO PLAY.

Dare I say it, but couldn't one make the same generalization about Halo? How many other FPS games were available on the Xbox then?

[Glockstar]

I downloaded the old E3 footage of Conker and Kameo from Rare's site today. I don't know why they don't put up something new. It is my hope and expectation that these games will still come out. They look sweet, and were an important factor in my buying an xbox.

I think you missed the important point in the post in your zeal to nitpick at me. I was just speculating that maybe the bulk of Rare's development resources have been shifted in order to create PD0 for xbox 2. I have no idea, it was a pure speculation post.

I think it would be a great strategy on MS part. What else do you think they could use as a launch title that would excite the gaming world more? I find myself feeling really excited at the prospect of possibly seeing another masterpiece from Rare. Maybe Kameo will be a masterpiece.

I've always thought in terms of Graphics that Rare is one of the best at getting absolutely the most amazing graphics out of a system, and I am pretty stoked at the xbox 2 launching with something Rare really invests the time in.

Don't you think this would be a great launch title for xbox 2, especially if they want to steal some Nintendo thunder by launching with what was once a jewel in the Nintendo library?

(Oh, by the way Glock, who are "you guys" and why do we make you sick? I know when I'm doing Nintendo propoganda it annoys you, but this was essentially a pro-xbox post and one of the few around here that found an angle to explain how Rare could end up paying off for MS. Sometimes I think you are actually Massimodo, so eager to bash you can't even read a whole post, but just the parts you can find fault with :rolleyes: )

Oh gimme a break.
What are you... a big baby?!?

Saying that something is rumoured to be something that it isn't is not "speculation", or propoganda, it's a lie, and that's it!

I sure would like to know where you heard this rumour from though. Why won't you tell us? You've provided us with links in the past - just as you've named sources - so we all know you're capable enough. Although... you have been irresponsible, ostentatious, and even insensitive, in your statement of (so-called) "facts" before. Plenty of times, in fact. Which you've been warned about it. So quit your crying! My reply wasn't "nit-picking", it was correctional and restorative.

Now, you know I wouldn't have come down on you like that if you would have just stated your opinions or made your own "speculations" and predictions. But what you did was bogus - and it was obvious - pure and simple. I didn't find fault with your statements - your statements were just plain faulty. You said, and I quote, "Do you suppose the reason we've seen all the Rare projects dissappear..." Well guess what, baby-wah, I'm not only telling you that they have not dissappeared, but that you should have known this yourself!

And now you've got hurt feelings because the "important parts" (i.e. the parts that you actually did put some thought and effort into) of your post were ignored?!? C'mon! I mean, it sure doesn't look like you put much effort into that part about the status of those (other) Rare games before you wrote your post - so don't go crying about not getting the attention that you didn't earn. You don't like the grades you get, then you ought to think about doing a better job.

You've got to be accountable for your actions - you've got to take responsibility. We all do.
But even more than that - it's a matter of credibility and integrity!

Would you like it if we all posted and reviewed and reported like you and Geezer do?!? Fine...

...Because I was thinking now would be a good time for me to interject a few words about the game called Pikmin for the Nintendo GameCube anyways: First of all, let me say that of all the rehashes Nintendo has put out for the 'Cube, this title is the most derivitive. And the most kiddie. This game was clearly aimed at 5 year olds! The graphics consist of your basic geometric shapes and colours*, the sounds are straight out of Sesame Street, the story is Tele-Tubbyish, and the gameplay is nothing more than your elementary walkaround-and-click-type-stuff. I swear, there's more "strategy" involved in a game of single-player Tic-Tac-Toe than there is in this game! Multiplayer is kind of cool though - but only because of the inclusion of rocket-launchers (which are strangely missing from the single-player campaign. :( ) !
* = There are 16 additional colours that you can (easily) unlock though - which does add a little bit of replay value to the single-player component.
You getting this yet?!?

As for the "important part" of your post...
There could be a thousand reasons as to why I don't reply to every part of every post. One could be that... maybe I actually agree with the rest of the post. :eek: (Or then again, maybe I think the rest of the post is so full of crap that it's a waste of time to even address it.)

That said, a lot of your post - especially the gist of it - is pretty danged unoriginal! I've said a lot of that stuff already, a couple of times before! So even though you may not realize it, subconsciously (or unconsciously, or whatever!), I'll bet you got a lot of that material from... me!

No, the NextBox won't have a Halo3 to launch with (though it may have a Halo2.5 or some other type of an expansion :eek: ;) ) but I don't think it'll really be missing it. I've already gone on record as saying that with Perfect Dark Zero, Oddworld 4, and Jade Empire, among others (I can't remember now), the XBox Next looks like it's going to have the greatest bunch of launch games, in the history of gaming! And what's more, I'll predict that Grand Theft Auto 5 (or whatever it's going to be called), Mechassault 2, and MotoGP 3 will also be added to the XB2's launch library! How do ya like them apples?!?

Now grow up, ya #@$%ing baby!

[Gadfly2317]

What is your problem, Glock? What, running out of enemys that will actually respond to your hate-posts and trying to create a new one with your little meandering incoherent name calling rant? Missing the old flame-war style that used to be the status quo here? If throwing a cute little tantrum is what floats your boat, whatever.

And what does Pikmin have to do with anything?

I still don't get why you think its ridiculous to wonder if the bulk of Rare's development resources have been shifted to producing a game that corpse-loving xbots might actually spend money on as an explanation of the virtual absence of Rare games. After all, Conker is a spiffed up remake that was supposed to be here this spring. Where is it? I haven't even seen an update on it in Xbox magazine, though I suppose I could have missed it. Rare's website has barely been updated since last E3. And Kameo was supposedly near completion back on the GC. It doesn't take THIS long to port something.

Why hasn't Rare done anything but pinch out one little Ghoulies turd for Xbox? I don't see why my speculating about that made you throw such a tantrum--and you have the gall to call me the crybaby? Ha! Were you needing a little attention, poor neglected Glocky?

We speculate about things all the time here. Some posts are statements of fact, and appropriate links are provided. Other times we are just wondering about things.

I don't know what kind of Nazi you think you are to decide all of the sudden speculation isn't allowed just because you didn't like the content of it. Feel free to debunk what I said--it was just a disposable thought anyway-- but your rant just made you look silly.

[Glockstar]

... Missing the old flame-war style that used to be the status quo here? ... And what does Pikmin have to do with anything? ... I still don't get why you think its ridiculous to wonder if the bulk of Rare's development resources have been shifted to producing a game that corpse-loving xbots might actually spend money on as an explanation of the virtual absence of Rare games. ... I don't see why my speculating about that made you throw such a tantrum--and you have the gall to call me the crybaby? ... We speculate about things all the time here. Some posts are statements of fact, and appropriate links are provided. Other times we are just wondering about things. I don't know what kind of Nazi you think you are to decide all of the sudden speculation isn't allowed just because you didn't like the content of it. Feel free to debunk what I said--it was just a disposable thought anyway-- but your rant just made you look silly.

...you're not a baby. You're an idiot!

I did debunk what you said!
And that's when you started crying. Started crying about how I nit-picked/corrected/debunked your "disposable thought", instead of replying to the rest of your bromidic post.

What's my problem? What's your problem?

You still don't get it, do you?

Well here... wonder about this...
If you falsely state something to be something that it's not - or you just plain lie about it - and use this erroneous "information" as a basis for your "speculations", then you what you have is a pretty doggone worthless post. Wouldn't you agree?!?

You want to talk about the XBox Next? Talk about the XBox Next!
You want to talk about Perfect Dark Zero? Talk about Perfect Dark Zero!
You want to talk about Rare? Talk about Rare!

You want to try to tie in Conker and Kameo to the disccusion? Do a better job!

Or to put it another way... You wonder what Pikmin has to do with anything?
Well why don't you think about what making false statements about the status of the next two Rare games has to do with anything first!

I've got some other things for you to wonder about too, if you'd like to continue, I mean.

[trebor]

Well here... wonder about this...
If you falsely state something to be something that it's not - or you just plain lie about it - and use this erroneous "information" as a basis for your "speculations", then you what you have is a pretty doggone worthless post. Wouldn't you agree?!?

LMAO! If anyone wants to see what the pot calling the kettle black actually looks like, look no further!

Guess what Shlocky? I agree with you. Falsely stating something to be what it isn't and using "erroneous" information as a basis of speculation does make a "doggone" worthless post - and you would know better then everyone else.

Gadfly isn't taking articles that mean one thing and attempting to make them mean another - by picking and choosing what portions of said articles he wants to acknowledge. There is only one poster around here who does that regularly. And.....umm.....it's you, Shlock.

It's nice to know you are a miserable swine to everyone, though, and not just me exclusively.

[Gadfly2317]

...you're not a baby. You're an idiot!

I did debunk what you said!


Not sure why you're so hostile today, but that's your trip.

I said "rumored." And yeah, the rumor was from Geezer, who's rumors are generally more reliable than your "facts." I had never given this particular rumor much credence or thought, but when I say the Rare games have "dissappeared" they kinda have. I haven't seen them, anyway. Rare's website is poorly updated, and the last media at IGN on upcoming rare games is nearly six months old. If I'm wrong and there's new updates or statements about these games then bring 'em on. I don't mind finding out I'm wrong. I'd love to see or hear how Conker is coming along. Other games like Halo keep updating us to keep us excited, but Rare might as well not exist for all the media its been doing.

I didn't "lie", and I didn't state as a fact these games aren't coming out. I think it was a reasonable thing to wonder if Rare has shifted its resources towards a more realism oriented project like Perfect Dark or even something else, leaving smaller teams to finish up Conker and Cameo which MS may view as cartoony/kiddie money losers like Ghoulies. Xbox fans have not shown themselves to be open to "cute." Wouldn't you agree?

Pretty reasonable stuff I'm saying here. Your drama-mama response just baffles me. Sure, everything I think about what Rare may be up to could be BS for all I know, and I'm all for some good discussion about a game developer that I like and that I'm curious what they're up to, but I don't see anything in what I'm saying that correlates to your hostile response.

[AOE The Apocalypse]

Not sure why you're so hostile today, but that's your trip.

I said "rumored." And yeah, the rumor was from Geezer, who's rumors are generally more reliable than your "facts." I had never given this particular rumor much credence or thought, but when I say the Rare games have "dissappeared" they kinda have. I haven't seen them, anyway. Rare's website is poorly updated, and the last media at IGN on upcoming rare games is nearly six months old. If I'm wrong and there's new updates or statements about these games then bring 'em on. I don't mind finding out I'm wrong. I'd love to see or hear how Conker is coming along. Other games like Halo keep updating us to keep us excited, but Rare might as well not exist for all the media its been doing.

I didn't "lie", and I didn't state as a fact these games aren't coming out. I think it was a reasonable thing to wonder if Rare has shifted its resources towards a more realism oriented project like Perfect Dark or even something else, leaving smaller teams to finish up Conker and Cameo which MS may view as cartoony/kiddie money losers like Ghoulies. Xbox fans have not shown themselves to be open to "cute." Wouldn't you agree?

Pretty reasonable stuff I'm saying here. Your drama-mama response just baffles me. Sure, everything I think about what Rare may be up to could be BS for all I know, and I'm all for some good discussion about a game developer that I like and that I'm curious what they're up to, but I don't see anything in what I'm saying that correlates to your hostile response.

Hey, AOE Enforcer here-reporting to you from AOE Apocalypse's pad. Between bouts of Burnout 2 and R-Type Final on the PS2, we have been reading and LOAO at Glock's pathetic rambling rhetoric. All of which is an infantile knee-jerk response to a perfectly legitimate discussion that Gadfly started about Rare cancelling projects.

I, AOE Enforcer reported a few months back that Rare was systematically cancelling their projects. Kameo is done. Gone. Finished. Conker is in limbo right now and most likely will get canned. The "untitled kart racer" is cancelled. Perfect Dark Zero is the only Rare game on the horizon and it's not due for another TWO YEARS!

You are damn skippy that my "rumors" which are absolute FACTS derived from several industry insiders are more reliable than Schlockstar's biased, half-baked and half-deleted links. Glock's selective reprinting of sections of articles that fit his purposes is hilarious. It's like the Hsu and Chan strip in EGM where they have the fake game review where they make a bad game sound halfway good. It was something like "Not....that....bad. That's what Shlock does. Just like his thread about Resident Evil selling like crap on Gamecube where he totally blows off the section where they talk about worldwide sales topping over a million for each game and the fact that the Resident Evil games sold to over 10% or 1/10 Gamecube owners.

Don't worry your pretty little heads my lost lambs. I'll be back on my own sign-on once SBC fixes the damn phone service at my home where I can get a halfway decent connect. And just so you SlopBox losers know, I traded in about 34 of my Xbox titles that suck. I've pre-paid in full for the FFXI/HDD bundle, Resident Evil Outbreak, Dead or Alive Ultimate Collection and I got R-Type Final, R Racing Evolution, the SOCOM USB Headset, Nightshade and so much more. I've been having a great time actually playing games that are fun and not just derivative FPS and racing schlock.

Besides DOA, Ninja Gaiden and Halo 2-my Xbox games for 2K4 are about nill. Maybe Otogi 2 if Sega publishes it because I am a loyal Sega fan.

And to my esteemed rectal-wart that calls himself Tappy, take your pot shots at the PS2 and Slowcom and Slowny and whatever other assclown nonsense you can dredge up from your burned-out, Boston & Foreigner listening carcass. We all know that "Slowcom" has received rave reviews and kicked your precious Clancy garbage to the curb. And I just love how you guys are bragging on getting Silent Hill 4. You know what that is? It's Konami throwing MS a bone once in awhile. Kinda like when your girlfriend dumped you and gave you a mercy bop before telling you adios.

See you guys on the other side.

[Glockstar]

Not sure why you're so hostile today, but that's your trip.

I said "rumored." And yeah, the rumor was from Geezer, who's rumors are generally more reliable than your "facts." I had never given this particular rumor much credence or thought, but when I say the Rare games have "dissappeared" they kinda have. I haven't seen them, anyway. Rare's website is poorly updated, and the last media at IGN on upcoming rare games is nearly six months old. If I'm wrong and there's new updates or statements about these games then bring 'em on. I don't mind finding out I'm wrong. I'd love to see or hear how Conker is coming along. Other games like Halo keep updating us to keep us excited, but Rare might as well not exist for all the media its been doing.

I didn't "lie", and I didn't state as a fact these games aren't coming out. I think it was a reasonable thing to wonder if Rare has shifted its resources towards a more realism oriented project like Perfect Dark or even something else, leaving smaller teams to finish up Conker and Cameo which MS may view as cartoony/kiddie money losers like Ghoulies. Xbox fans have not shown themselves to be open to "cute." Wouldn't you agree?

Pretty reasonable stuff I'm saying here. Your drama-mama response just baffles me. Sure, everything I think about what Rare may be up to could be BS for all I know, and I'm all for some good discussion about a game developer that I like and that I'm curious what they're up to, but I don't see anything in what I'm saying that correlates to your hostile response.

Of course you don't.

I love it tho'! You finally admitted that you got this "rumour" from Geezer! And then... your (seemingly) favourite "authority", the dolt himself, posts a real beauty of a post right afterwards - showing us all the inherent lack of integrity behind his "rumours" and "facts"! HAW! That is too precious!

And that is one hell of a news source you've got there, Mcfly! I tell ya, you sure know how to pick'em! :rolleyes:

You ought to be ashamed. But, I doubt you will be - because I've seen too many posts from you spouting off similar nonsense on your own accord. For a guy that's "all for some good discussion" you really don't start out many of your posts that way. You say you don't lie? Well, you do! (And here's a perfect example: "... the rumor was from Geezer, who's rumors are generally more reliable than your "facts."!) Sometimes they're just little white lies, but sometimes they're blatant and obvious (which is usually when you're responding to people that you shouldn't be resonding too.) But either way, it's still not right. And it doesn't mesh with what you are saying now (i.e. 'I'm all for some good discussion'). Negligence is not going to excuse you from being culpabable. What's more, repeating the specious words of another poster without doing some kind of a background check on them, or something - whatever the motive(s) - is worse than lying.

Look, I'm actually sick of lecturing and correcting you people. You guys want to break everything down, forego the honest opinions and facts, and rein in the lies, the chaos and the nonsense (like the post and the poster right above this one)... fine! Like I said, I can play that way too.

You think you're being reasonable? Why don't you re-read the thread, and then tell me again, who's being reasonable here.

Hey, do you really want to field an honest discussion? Well let's see if you can handle this then...
You just stated and then "asked", "Xbox fans have not shown themselves to be open to "cute." Wouldn't you agree?". Too which I must reply, 'They haven't had much to choose from'. I totally disagree with what Daman and RBH said earlier in this thread. In fact, I've already had a rather big disagreement with my fellow xbots previously (with your old foe, massimodo, actually) on this very same issue. (Though you... prolly have forgotten it.) I would've gotten into it (addressed them) earlier in this thread, but unfortunately, I had to deal with some #@$%ing BS!!!

[Gadfly2317]

Of course you don't.

I love it tho'! You finally admitted that you got this "rumour" from Geezer! And then... your (seemingly) favourite "authority", the dolt himself, posts a real beauty of a post right afterwards - showing us all the inherent lack of integrity behind his "rumours" and "facts"! HAW! That is too precious!

And that is one hell of a news source you've got there, Mcfly! I tell ya, you sure know how to pick'em! :rolleyes:

Don't you have any response other than mudslinging? You've backed yourself into a corner, haven't you? I did start this discussion based on 2 things. Rumor, and the complete absence of Rare media updates on these games for several months. I haven't seen Rare games in the Official Xbox magazine. IGN hasn't had any updates on Kameo for nearly six months, I.E. after the Ghoulies disaster, and I've seen and heard squat on Konker. They are still officially announced on the Rare website, but they haven't put up anything on these games that isn't from last year's E3. This is factual. So yeah, taken together, this has started me thinking there may be something to what Enforcer was saying. So instead of calling him a dolt and me an idiot, why don't address the substance of what I'm saying? Hello? Anybody out there? Show me something that indicates Conker is on track for release. Were either of these games on IGN's "20 anticipated games for 2004 xbox list?" (Hey, maybe they were and I forgot!) You can tell me I'm full of it all you want, but if you're such a "credible and factual" poster compared to me, then put up or shut up. Like I said, I would LOVE TO BE WRONG, and I'd love it if Enforcer were wrong. I want Rare's Nintendo-style games, but I think there's valid reason to fear after the Ghoulies debacle that MS may squash Rare's Nintendo-style work and instead set them to the task of churning out some gory shoot-em up realism.

"Xbox fans have not shown themselves to be open to "cute." Wouldn't you agree?" Too which I must reply, 'They haven't had much to choose from'.

Well, now there's a true and honest statement. A lot of racers (the #1 reason I bought the system.) and a lot of shooters. Not a lot else to choose from aside from a few real gems. I also had been hoping for the Rare games, so I'm dissapointed. And I'll be more dissapointed if they cancel Kameo, which looked like a killer game to me. Maybe it wasn't. Not a lot to choose from. Yeah. And that's were you'd earned some respect from me in the past, is your taste in games, your admiration for artistic and unique games like Abe's Oddyssey, Pikmin, Ogre Tactics, and Voodoo Vince.

But right now you are cracking, changing the topic, and in this particular instance made yourself look a bigger fool than even Evolution. You know, when you've backed yourself into a corner, there's no shame in just walking away. You're losing a lot of the respect you'd earned from me.

So again, move above the name calling and either prove the speculation wrong, or at least provide your own logic and reasoning as to why/how these Rare games are right on track.

[The Prince of Darkness]

And I'll be more dissapointed if they cancel Kameo, which looked like a killer game to me. Maybe it wasn't. Not a lot to choose from. Yeah. And that's were you'd earned some respect from me in the past, is your taste in games, your admiration for artistic and unique games like Abe's Oddyssey, Pikmin, Ogre Tactics, and Voodoo Vince.



Actually both of you are going back and forth without any facts to speak of. And...the AOE Apocalypse is a dolt from what I have read. Well maybe more of a psycho than anything. All you guys had to do was march over to the old EB Games Xbox release list and you would see that Kameo has a release date of 9/1/04. Coincidentily that is the same release date as Halo2. I am sure that...cough cough...it has been pushed back so that they can make the game as great as it can possibly be.

[AOE Enforcer]

Actually both of you are going back and forth without any facts to speak of. And...the AOE Apocalypse is a dolt from what I have read. Well maybe more of a psycho than anything. All you guys had to do was march over to the old EB Games Xbox release list and you would see that Kameo has a release date of 9/1/04. Coincidentily that is the same release date as Halo2. I am sure that...cough cough...it has been pushed back so that they can make the game as great as it can possibly be.

Yeah, and we all know how reliable EB & Gamestop's release lists are. That's why they had Halo 2 listed originally for November 2003, then April 1, 2004. And that's why they had an Xbox version of Half-Life 2 listed for release early LAST YEAR! LOL!

Tell me Prince, where is the release date for Conker Live & Uncut? It was supposed to be on store shelves by March/April this year. But....there is no release date at all on either of these sites. Hmmm..... And really, if Grabbed by the Ghoulies is any indication of the quality we will be seeing from Rare from now on....well, let's just say we are better off without any more of their "gems."

["The Game"Evolution]

Hey, AOE Enforcer here-reporting to you from AOE Apocalypse's pad. Between bouts of Burnout 2 and R-Type Final on the PS2, we have been reading and LOAO at Glock's pathetic rambling rhetoric. All of which is an infantile knee-jerk response to a perfectly legitimate discussion that Gadfly started about Rare cancelling projects.

I, AOE Enforcer reported a few months back that Rare was systematically cancelling their projects. Kameo is done. Gone. Finished. Conker is in limbo right now and most likely will get canned. The "untitled kart racer" is cancelled. Perfect Dark Zero is the only Rare game on the horizon and it's not due for another TWO YEARS!

You are damn skippy that my "rumors" which are absolute FACTS derived from several industry insiders are more reliable than Schlockstar's biased, half-baked and half-deleted links. Glock's selective reprinting of sections of articles that fit his purposes is hilarious. It's like the Hsu and Chan strip in EGM where they have the fake game review where they make a bad game sound halfway good. It was something like "Not....that....bad. That's what Shlock does. Just like his thread about Resident Evil selling like crap on Gamecube where he totally blows off the section where they talk about worldwide sales topping over a million for each game and the fact that the Resident Evil games sold to over 10% or 1/10 Gamecube owners.

Don't worry your pretty little heads my lost lambs. I'll be back on my own sign-on once SBC fixes the damn phone service at my home where I can get a halfway decent connect. And just so you SlopBox losers know, I traded in about 34 of my Xbox titles that suck. I've pre-paid in full for the FFXI/HDD bundle, Resident Evil Outbreak, Dead or Alive Ultimate Collection and I got R-Type Final, R Racing Evolution, the SOCOM USB Headset, Nightshade and so much more. I've been having a great time actually playing games that are fun and not just derivative FPS and racing schlock.

Besides DOA, Ninja Gaiden and Halo 2-my Xbox games for 2K4 are about nill. Maybe Otogi 2 if Sega publishes it because I am a loyal Sega fan.

And to my esteemed rectal-wart that calls himself Tappy, take your pot shots at the PS2 and Slowcom and Slowny and whatever other assclown nonsense you can dredge up from your burned-out, Boston & Foreigner listening carcass. We all know that "Slowcom" has received rave reviews and kicked your precious Clancy garbage to the curb. And I just love how you guys are bragging on getting Silent Hill 4. You know what that is? It's Konami throwing MS a bone once in awhile. Kinda like when your girlfriend dumped you and gave you a mercy bop before telling you adios.

See you guys on the other side.

Btw,Nightshade for the PS2 received a wonderful overall review score of an 7.0 from IGN.And you choose to hate on Xbox games? Yeah right.

An ass-clown genius once said:"I Have a temper so don't insult my intellegence or you will experience my WRATH!!!" LMAO! He must've been a proctologist in another life.

[Glockstar]

I did start this discussion based on 2 things. Rumor, and the complete absence of Rare media updates on these games for several months. I haven't seen Rare games in the Official Xbox magazine. IGN hasn't had any updates on Kameo for nearly six months, I.E. after the Ghoulies disaster, and I've seen and heard squat on Konker. They are still officially announced on the Rare website, but they haven't put up anything on these games that isn't from last year's E3. This is factual. So yeah, taken together, this has started me thinking there may be something to what Enforcer was saying. So instead of calling him a dolt and me an idiot, why don't address the substance of what I'm saying?

Because there is no substance to what you are saying! DON'T YOU GET IT YET?!?

There is no "cancellation rumour" on Conker! There is only Geezers loudmouth BS!

Rare not updating their website may be factual... but listening to a loudmouth schizo is STUPID! You flubbed up; you were stupid, and you were lazy. And you got burned for it. Just admit it!

But geeeez you seem overly sensitive to the way people respond to you. You sure don't seem like your ready, willing, or able to be proven wrong, as you say you are.

You didn't reread the thread as I asked you too, did you? I didn't start calling you an idiot until you started acting like one. Which was pretty much immediately after being corrected! Funny that, hah?

Kameo is a Microsoft 1st-party title. Conker is a Microsoft 1st-party title. Don't you know this?!? If so, then you'd think you would also know that these games are NOT going to "go quietly into the night" - if there's any change to either of these games, you will hear (or read) about it! To suggest that a change took place without anybody knowing about it - except for Geezer :rolleyes: - is pretty daffy, don't you think? I mean, if you don't know something, then shouldn't you ask a question instead of making an unsubstantiated proclamation, so that you don't look like a retard?!? It's like I said (before), you apparently know how to surf the net and lookup information... why didn't you do this before you posted?!? Why did you propogate Geezers tripe?!? (Which I knew you did - right from the get-go.)

Show me something that indicates Conker is on track for release.

Show me something that indicates it isn't. (Other than AOE Enfarcer's BS, I mean.)

Sorry Mcfly, if you're going to make a statement, then the onus is on you to make sure that what you have to say is correct. It's not the other way around! Especially, especially, if you want trying to start up an honest debate, or make a logical argument. Otherwise... things break down (and you don't get anywhere). And then you're a party to the kind of crap that... well I won't name names... does; which is also the same kind of crap you twitch about.

Now... don't be lazy! Surf that net! Find me proof! You can do it, baby! It's out there! If I can find it, then anybody can! C'mon! Move that mouse - click that finger! Hup hup... you bloated sac!

Well, now there's a true and honest statement.
Duh!

To bad we can't say the same about you.
So you don't lie, eh?

"A lot of racers... and a lot of shooters. Not a lot else to choose from aside from a few real gems."

(Here we go again.) Is this a fact now?

First off, you seemed to have miscontrued what I said here. Just like you have with everything I've said so far. You know, it's starting to look like you've got worse reading comprehension than Evolution.

Secondly, this statement is so out whack that there is just no way to reply to it.
I mean, what's 'a lot'? What's 'a few'? What's 'a gem'? What's 'a real gem'?!?

Ah...ee... uhh... ohhhh. Well... thanks for the great discussion.
That was fun! [Thumbs up] :rolleyes:

And that's were you'd earned some respect from me in the past, is your taste in games, your admiration for artistic and unique games like Abe's Oddyssey, Pikmin, Ogre Tactics, and Voodoo Vince. ... You're losing a lot of the respect you'd earned from me.

Good. I guess that makes us about even.

Good gawl... LOL... one little correction, and it's... 'your not my friend anymore!'
Heh, you are a kittie after all, ain't ya!?!


So again, move above the name calling and either prove the speculation wrong, or at least provide your own logic and reasoning as to why/how these Rare games are right on track.

Nah... when you move above the lies and spuriousness and start doing your part towards maintaining the integrity of the board, then I will. However, since you asked, I will still prove you wrong about the Rare games... and I'll do it in seven words or less:
Research It Yourself It's Not Hard

[Gadfly2317]

[B]

Sorry Mcfly, if you're going to make a statement, then the onus is on you to make sure that what you have to say is correct. It's not the other way around!

Now... don't be lazy! Surf that net! Find me proof! You can do it, baby! It's out there! If I can find it, then anybody can! C'mon! Move that mouse - click that finger! Hup hup... you bloated sac!

Nah... when you move above the lies and spuriousness and start doing your part towards maintaining the integrity of the board, then I will. However, since you asked, I will still prove you wrong about the Rare games... and I'll do it in seven words or less:
Research It Yourself It's Not Hard

This has gone nowhere. The "onus is on me to make sure what I say is correct" you say? I never made a statement of fact. I wondered if "the reason we've seen the Rare games dissapear" is if they've stopped working on or cut back their development teams in order to switch development to a different project. I don't "know" that, I've just wondered. if they were not really as far along as we hoped, and after ghoulies flopped, Conker and Kameo were maybe reassesed as not lucrative. It IS possible you know. Wondering about something is fair game. Can you tell me what is so illogical or stupid about wondering this?

The REASON I wonder is because all info stopped coming out on these games after Ghoulies flopped. I'm not "lying" about that. This is a FACT--to the best of my knowledge--and it is the fact I've based my speculations on. You want me to "click that mouse" to find "proof" and then you call me a bloated sac? I HAVE clicked the mouse, Glockstard. That's what started the thread, because I wanted to see what was up with these games, and it was like they'd fallen off the face of the earth. There is not a peep on the net nor a recent update. Virtually every game I'm anticipating--even ones not landing until late 2004--obscure underfunded stuff even like Unity--are keeping fans posted of progress to maintain interest and excitement. Even "secret" projects like Killer 7 have a website with some screenshots. But Rare--squat, nadda, zilch, zippo. You got that? Can your little pee-brain comprehend what I've been sayiing? And what I've said in response to your attacks is that if you've seen some recent updates or news on these games, then by all means show me. I'm not some egomaniac about being right here. . . I just want to know what the hell Rare is doing and how these games are progressing.

Why does it bother you that I wonder what Rare is up to? Can we only talk about what's been previously reported in the news? In the absence of news isn't it interesting to speculate as to WHY there is no news? Its called a conversation. Do you have a theory? If you don't want to think about it, fine. And if a speculative discussion is not your thing--fine--because of course it is just chit-chat that can't reach a real conclusion because we won't KNOW for sure one way or another until Rare or MS says something. But its real BS for you to call me a liar or a bloated sac without integrity for raising these issues.

We ALL speculate all the time. Make predictions about what will sell. Make predictions about what a system is going to launch with. Predict a game is going to turn out badly based on the info available to us (without ever having played the game.) If we are ONLY reporting facts instead of sometimes discussing opinions or theories, then no one needs to ever type anything here, they can just post links to news stories. :rolleyes:

[Glockstar]

This has gone nowhere. The "onus is on me to make sure what I say is correct" you say? I never made a statement of fact. I wondered if "the reason we've seen the Rare games dissapear" is if they've stopped working on or cut back their development teams in order to switch development to a different project. I don't "know" that, I've just wondered. if they were not really as far along as we hoped, and after ghoulies flopped, Conker and Kameo were maybe reassesed as not lucrative. It IS possible you know. Wondering about something is fair game. Can you tell me what is so illogical or stupid about wondering this?

The REASON I wonder is because all info stopped coming out on these games after Ghoulies flopped. I'm not "lying" about that. This is a FACT--to the best of my knowledge--and it is the fact I've based my speculations on. You want me to "click that mouse" to find "proof" and then you call me a bloated sac? I HAVE clicked the mouse, Glockstard. That's what started the thread, because I wanted to see what was up with these games, and it was like they'd fallen off the face of the earth. There is not a peep on the net nor a recent update. Virtually every game I'm anticipating--even ones not landing until late 2004--obscure underfunded stuff even like Unity--are keeping fans posted of progress to maintain interest and excitement. Even "secret" projects like Killer 7 have a website with some screenshots. But Rare--squat, nadda, zilch, zippo. You got that? Can your little pee-brain comprehend what I've been sayiing? And what I've said in response to your attacks is that if you've seen some recent updates or news on these games, then by all means show me. I'm not some egomaniac about being right here. . . I just want to know what the hell Rare is doing and how these games are progressing.

Why does it bother you that I wonder what Rare is up to? Can we only talk about what's been previously reported in the news? In the absence of news isn't it interesting to speculate as to WHY there is no news? Its called a conversation. Do you have a theory? If you don't want to think about it, fine. And if a speculative discussion is not your thing--fine--because of course it is just chit-chat that can't reach a real conclusion because we won't KNOW for sure one way or another until Rare or MS says something. But its real BS for you to call me a liar or a bloated sac without integrity for raising these issues.



You're right, this bleep this has gone nowhere.
You keep going round and round and round with this; and you keep changing the subject.

And no, you you didn't "wonder" or "speculate", you said, "Do you suppose the reason we've seen all the Rare projects dissappear is because... ". And just seconds later you revealed that you were using completely unsubstantiated, spurious... BS!... as a basis for these suppositions.

I don't mind you wondering or speculating - because there is nothing wrong or illogical about wondering or speculating (as long as there's a good/legitimate reason for doing so... and wondering/speculating why Mario 128, Metroid Prime 2, Halo2, Hot Shots Golf Fore! or Conker have been cancelled (or rumoured to be cancelled) is not.) But that's NOT what you did! And I told you already, that if you had done a better job wording your "questions" then we wouldn't be going back and forth like this - and we might actually be talking about videogames! So don't give this 'I was just wondering and honestly wanted too know' crap!

See, when a person "wonders" about something, or "speculates" on something, or "predicts" somehting, they say, "I wonder...", or I "I think...", or "I predict...". You do see the difference between that and "Conker is rumoured to have been cancelled", or "Metroid Prime 2 is rumoured to have been cancelled" (or even "Pikmin sucks" or "the XBox has no good games"), yes?

It doesn't bother me that you wonder what Rare is up to. But it does bother me that you don't have your facts straight. And that you rather would propogate someone elses BS instead of fielding a logical inquiry. If you really wondered why you haven't heard "any news", why didn't you just ask, "I wonder why I haven't heard any news"! Simple!

We ALL speculate all the time. Make predictions about what will sell. Make predictions about what a system is going to launch with. Predict a game is going to turn out badly based on the info available to us (without ever having played the game.) If we are ONLY reporting facts instead of sometimes discussing opinions or theories, then no one needs to ever type anything here, they can just post links to news stories. :rolleyes:

No. "We" don't speculate all the time. What "we" do do here is try to pass off a lot of "our" opinions as facts. Which is NOT reporting facts - the two are not the same! And we don't - or very rarely - discuss our opinions or theories because basically, none are stated! What you do see are frequent posts containing nothing more than erroneous, dubious, and spurious statements, or base emotional outbursts. I swear, there's some people who come here that seem to have very little regard for the real reasons most other people visit this site - and that's for informational and educational purposes. That's why you rarely see any intelligent discussions on the SW board. Especially ones where Geezer is involved in.

And sometimes, you're just as bad as he is. I haven't even gotten into my other questions for you yet... like why - if you really were inquisitve about the status of the XBox/Rare games - didn't you post this in the XBox Forum? Why did you make this a SW post?!?

[Gadfly2317]

I don't mind you wondering or speculating - because there is nothing wrong or illogical about wondering or speculating (as long as there's a good/legitimate reason for doing so... and wondering/speculating why Mario 128, Metroid Prime 2, Halo2, Hot Shots Golf Fore! or Conker have been cancelled (or rumoured to be cancelled) is not.) But that's NOT what you did! And I told you already, that if you had done a better job wording your "questions" then we wouldn't be going back and forth like this - and we might actually be talking about videogames! So don't give this 'I was just wondering and honestly wanted too know' crap!

See, when a person "wonders" about something, or "speculates" on something, or "predicts" somehting, they say, "I wonder...", or I "I think...", or "I predict...". You do see the difference between that and "Conker is rumoured to have been cancelled", or "Metroid Prime 2 is rumoured to have been cancelled" (or even "Pikmin sucks" or "the XBox has no good games"), yes?



You quoted me correctly: We both agree I said "Do you suppose the reason we've seen the Rare games dissappear is. . . . " and then went on to list some possible reasons. WE bHAVE SEEN THEM DISSAPPEAR!!! You've never addressed that. What was wrong with me phrasing it that way when its true? We were getting regular media updates, but when Ghoulies was a sales disaster, and then shortly after, all media, talk and updates on Konker quit happening. Thats it. Thats all. I wonder why. You don't address anything I've said at all, ever.

"If I'd have done a better job wording my question" you say. Well, you might have not been able to get your head around the first post, but there's been plenty of clarification since then as to what I was saying, but STILL you CANNOT or WILLNOT respond for some weird reason. What, you delaying for time to try and find some shred of news out of Rare that doesn't date prior to September 2003? Don't you have any thing to offer as to why you think they mysteriously quit releasing new screenshots and media updates right after Ghoulies failed? Come on. ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU COMPLETE SUBJECT CHANGING WIMP.

I do my best to not pass off opinion as fact but differentiate the two, and to differentiate the difference between speculation and rumor, and something announced by a developer. And you know it. Your attempted character assisination is one of the most incoherent smear jobs I've ever seen. I dont' know why you won't just engage in the topic, or else if the topic bores you, then bug off.

And to talk about games, do you think if they release Conker on Xbox, will it earn enough money to cover development? Do you think Cameo will be a hit? Do you think Rare would be better off making a kick-ass Perfect Dark Zero and cut their losses on the "Kiddie games" as xbots are likely to view them? I've actually offered you a chance all along to talk about games and all you want to do is talk about me.

I'm all for talking about these games. I put it in sytsems wars because this started out wondering if they'd shift focus with Rare to PDO for XBOX 2 which would really stick it right in Nintendo's craw. And Rare used to be with Nintendo, so there's inherent systems war interest in seeing how Rare performs for its new master vs its old master. See Xbox2 vs GC2. . . systems war material. I guess that WOULD be over your head.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Yeah, and we all know how reliable EB & Gamestop's release lists are. That's why they had Halo 2 listed originally for November 2003, then April 1, 2004. And that's why they had an Xbox version of Half-Life 2 listed for release early LAST YEAR! LOL!

Yeah their lists are just about as reliable as...your posts. LMAO!!! You and Gadfly were acting like you wanted a release date so I gave you one. Btw---since you love your GC so much have you had a look at its release list? Pretty darned spartan if you ask me.

Tell me Prince, where is the release date for Conker Live & Uncut? It was supposed to be on store shelves by March/April this year. But....there is no release date at all on either of these sites. Hmmm..... And really, if Grabbed by the Ghoulies is any indication of the quality we will be seeing from Rare from now on....well, let's just say we are better off without any more of their "gems."

Yeah that is strange about Conker since that one seemed like the title that was farthest along. As far as the quality of Rare games goes---I don't think that I would pass judgement on Rare based on one game that they seemingly just threw together at the last minute. I think a better judge would be all the great games they released for N64. Anyway, I thought that you liked Grabbed By the Ghoulies. Of course, that was when you were Gamer From 78 or Geezer From 78 or whatever. Either way it speaks volumes about the reliability of your posts.