Why Did Nintendo & Ms Dominate The Goty Awards For 2003?

["The Game"Evolution]

Lets face it in the latest EGM other than Ratchet And Clank:Going Commando winning best platform game for 2003 no other PS2 title really stood out over anything else.But games like The Legend Of Zelda:The Wind Waker and Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic indeed dominated the GOTY awards.(No mention of Viewtiful Joe here either)

Star Wars:KOTOR won overall best game of the year from IGN and was the EGM's People's choice as the best game of 2003.EGM's GOTY was Prince Of Persia.EGM picked The Wind Waker as the best action/adventure game of 2003.And runner up to KOTOR for GOTY.(And vise versa)

And the next time you go to www.gamerankings.com pay close attention to this tidbit I'm about to bring to your attention:Why is it that the majority of games for the GC and the Xbox for 2003 outscored most of the games on the PS2?(This isnt a fabrication,this is a fact)

Heres a reminder of what I'm talking about:

ATTACK OF THE 2003 GAMERS' CHOICE AWARDS P.76 INSIDE OF EGM#176

EGM's Picks Of The Best Games Of 2003:

PS2 Game Of The Year:Ratchet & Clank:Going Commando
Xbox Game Of The Year:Star Wars:KOTOR
Gamecube Game Of The Year:The Legend Of Zelda:The Wind Waker
GBA Game Of The Year:Wario Ware Inc.Mega Microgame$

Multiplatform Game Of The Year:Soul Calibur II

GAME OF THE YEAR:PRINCE OF PERSIA

Part 2:THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE OF GAMES OF THE YEAR P.88 OF EGM#176:

GAME OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS:KOTOR(RUNNER UP LEGEND OF ZELDA:WW)

EXTREME SPORTS GAME OF THE YEAR:Tony Hawk's Underground(RUNNER UP MADDEN 2004)

ACTION GAME OF THE YEAR:SPLINTER CELL(RUNNER UP LORD OF THE RINGS:ROTK)

ACTION/ADVENTURE GAME OF THE YEAR:ZELDA:THE WIND WAKER(RUNNER UP PRINCE OF PERSIA)

RACING GAME OF THE YEAR:MARIO KARTOUBLE DASH(RUNNER UP NEED FOR SPEED UNDERGROUND)

FIGHTING GAME OF THE YEAR:SOUL CALIBUR II(RUNNER UP SMACKDOWM:HCTP)

SHOOTER OF THE YEAR:HALO(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

STRATEGY GAME OF THE YEAR:WARCRAFT III:THE FROZEN THRONE(RUNNER UP FINAL FANTASY TACTICS)

ONLINE GAME OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS GALAXIES(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

RPG OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS:KOTOR(RUNNER UP FINAL FANTASY X-2)

The only other time a PS2 title was mentioned was during the announcement of the best games of 2003 was the multiplatform titles that won in other catagories.What am I getting at here? Simple.Most PS2 owners around here talks candidly about how far Sony is ahead of everybody and how many millions of consoles Sony has sold and all that.Its all true.

But yet its Nintendo and MS thats winning in the best games column.This is something that pratically nobody(with the exception of myself and Tappy)even brings up during debates.For some this means nothing.But what it does mean is that popularity will keep you alive whether or not your games are good or they suck.Yes the PS2 had alot of multiplatform titles to share with the GC and the Xbox.But shouldnt the PS2 be dominating in all of these catagories? Or is the truth finally coming to the light here?

Even though the PS2 came out first,these days when it comes to winning catagories for GOTY its starting to come in last.

The Xbox and the GC really doesnt get as much respect as they deserve where it really counts:THE GAMES!.

But I almost forgot,its not really about just the games anymore is it? Nope.Around here Its all about who has the best & worse sales numbers these days.(BOOOOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNNGGGG)

Lets get back to talking about what really makes and breaks consoles:THE GAMES!!!

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

But I almost forgot,its not really about just the games anymore is it? Nope.Around here Its all about who has the best & worse sales numbers these days.(BOOOOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNNGGGG)

Lets get back to talking about what really makes and breaks consoles:THE GAMES!!!

Thank you, Game. I was about to say the same thing. It's kind of rare to see threads about games around here anymore. And that's just sad, considering this is a GAME FORUM and not some CNN Money Watch forum. Who cares about sales when there are a crap load of games coming out between now and the end of March. Ninja Gaiden is getting some well deserved attention, and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is being talked about, but that's about it. What about games like 007: Everything or Nothing, will that be mentioned? I Guess after the Feb Sales chart data is released, it may be mentioned. By that time, the real gamers will be either looking forward to the next release or trying to finish recently released games.

["The Game"Evolution]

Thank you, Game. I was about to say the same thing. It's kind of rare to see threads about games around here anymore. And that's just sad, considering this is a GAME FORUM and not some CNN Money Watch forum. Who cares about sales when there are a crap load of games coming out between now and the end of March. Ninja Gaiden is getting some well deserved attention, and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow is being talked about, but that's about it. What about games like 007: Everything or Nothing, will that be mentioned? I Guess after the Feb Sales chart data is released, it may be mentioned. By that time, the real gamers will be either looking forward to the next release or trying to finish recently released games.

Sometimes we have to remind some of these"ewes"around here that this is a videogame forum not the "Wall Street Journal."Thanks for the props on the post.Your post kicked ass as well.I played 007 on the PS2 last week in Gamestop.So far from what I've seen and played for myself it looks great from a 3rd person perspective.The control took some getting used to and the character movement is analog controlled.The graphics was good,the sound was pretty top notch,and the ever loving James Bond theme was playing the entire time as usual.Would I recommend it? I definately would rent it to see more of it.

Other than that so far it looks to be a great game.Feb sales wont be as good as March sales though.Thats going to be a kick ass month for all consoles.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

and all the PS2 fanboys can do is bring up Devil May Cry....hahahahahahah

[Deathstroke]

Sigh, I'd try to argue this if the monkey wasn't on my ignore list. In any case, somebody, put up all the games that won EGM awards and uncie DS will edu-ma-cate you. Of course, Moody, you can't put up the games because I won't be able to see your post.

[Renzatic Gear]

Lets face it in the latest EGM other than Ratchet And Clank:Going Commando winning best platform game for 2003 no other PS2 title really stood out over anything else.But games like The Legend Of Zelda:The Wind Waker and Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic indeed dominated the GOTY awards.(No mention of Viewtiful Joe here either)

Star Wars:KOTOR won overall best game of the year from IGN and was the EGM's People's choice as the best game of 2003.EGM's GOTY was Prince Of Persia.EGM picked The Wind Waker as the best action/adventure game of 2003.And runner up to KOTOR for GOTY.(And vise versa)

And the next time you go to www.gamerankings.com (http://www.gamerankings.com/) pay close attention to this tidbit I'm about to bring to your attention:Why is it that the majority of games for the GC and the Xbox for 2003 outscored most of the games on the PS2?(This isnt a fabrication,this is a fact)

Heres a reminder of what I'm talking about_:

ATTACK OF THE 2003 GAMERS' CHOICE AWARDS P.76 INSIDE OF EGM#176

EGM's Picks Of The Best Games Of 2003:

PS2 Game Of The Year:Ratchet & Clank:Going Commando
Xbox Game Of The Year:Star Wars:KOTOR
Gamecube Game Of The Year:The Legend Of Zelda:The Wind Waker
GBA Game Of The Year:Wario Ware Inc.Mega Microgame$

Multiplatform Game Of The Year:Soul Calibur II

GAME OF THE YEAR:PRINCE OF PERSIA

Part 2:THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE OF GAMES OF THE YEAR P.88 OF EGM#176:

GAME OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS:KOTOR(RUNNER UP LEGEND OF ZELDA:WW)

EXTREME SPORTS GAME OF THE YEAR:Tony Hawk's Underground(RUNNER UP MADDEN 2004)

ACTION GAME OF THE YEAR:SPLINTER CELL(RUNNER UP LORD OF THE RINGS:ROTK)

ACTION/ADVENTURE GAME OF THE YEAR:ZELDA:THE WIND WAKER(RUNNER UP PRINCE OF PERSIA)

RACING GAME OF THE YEAR:MARIO KARTOUBLE DASH(RUNNER UP NEED FOR SPEED UNDERGROUND)

FIGHTING GAME OF THE YEAR:SOUL CALIBUR II(RUNNER UP SMACKDOWM:HCTP)

SHOOTER OF THE YEAR:HALO(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

STRATEGY GAME OF THE YEAR:WARCRAFT III:THE FROZEN THRONE(RUNNER UP FINAL FANTASY TACTICS)

ONLINE GAME OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS GALAXIES(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

RPG OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS:KOTOR(RUNNER UP FINAL FANTASY X-2)

The only other time a PS2 title was mentioned was during the announcement of the best games of 2003 was the multiplatform titles that won in other catagories.What am I getting at here? Simple.Most PS2 owners around here talks candidly about how far Sony is ahead of everybody and how many millions of consoles Sony has sold and all that.Its all true.

But yet its Nintendo and MS thats winning in the best games column.This is something that pratically nobody(with the exception of myself and Tappy)even brings up during debates.For some this means nothing.But what it does mean is that popularity will keep you alive whether or not your games are good or they suck.Yes the PS2 had alot of multiplatform titles to share with the GC and the Xbox.But shouldnt the PS2 be dominating in all of these catagories? Or is the truth finally coming to the light here?

Even though the PS2 came out first,these days when it comes to winning catagories for GOTY its starting to come in last.

The Xbox and the GC really doesnt get as much respect as they deserve where it really counts:THE GAMES!.

But I almost forgot,its not really about just the games anymore is it? Nope.Around here Its all about who has the best & worse sales numbers these days.(BOOOOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNNGGGG)

Lets get back to talking about what really makes and breaks consoles:THE GAMES!!!Ere ya go, Stroke.

Why the hell did they list Madden in the Extreme Sports Games catagory?

[Deathstroke]

Much thanks.

I look at that list and I don't see any one of the consoles being standouts. The multiplats really raked it up. And Halo as shooter of the year? Which year are they in? Granted it was released for the PC but..... c'mon.

Anyways, the only big winner here is GC which actually placed in two of the categories. Pretty much everything else is multiplat and Sony was runner up to just about everything. Although, it still kills me that VF4 gets overlooked again. HCTP, that drek gets runner up to SC2. Please, gag me with a spoon. And uh, where's the platformer award.

It's funny though seeing Double Dash win Racing GOTY. Tell me that doesn't burn your X-bot britches.

[Gadfly2317]

Sometimes we have to remind some of these"ewes"around here that this is a videogame forum not the "Wall Street Journal."Thanks for the props on the post.Your post kicked ass as well.I played 007 on the PS2 last week in Gamestop.So far from what I've seen and played for myself it looks great from a 3rd person perspective.The control took some getting used to and the character movement is analog controlled.The graphics was good,the sound was pretty top notch,and the ever loving James Bond theme was playing the entire time as usual.Would I recommend it? I definately would rent it to see more of it.

Other than that so far it looks to be a great game.Feb sales wont be as good as March sales though.Thats going to be a kick ass month for all consoles.

There are the Xbox, and the GC, and PS2 GAME forums. If I recall this is the Systems Wars forums, and a big part of that is the success of the system from a business point of view.

But you are 100% correct that games are (or should be) the biggest factor in a consoles success. You're right, there've been too many market analysis posts and not enough on games. (I think that's because we've just had the year end business announcements, and not much in the way of Jan/feb game releases until Ninja Gaiden, FF:CC and Metroid Zero Missions land.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Sometimes we have to remind some of these"ewes"around here that this is a videogame forum not the "Wall Street Journal."Thanks for the props on the post.Your post kicked ass as well.I played 007 on the PS2 last week in Gamestop.So far from what I've seen and played for myself it looks great from a 3rd person perspective.The control took some getting used to and the character movement is analog controlled.The graphics was good,the sound was pretty top notch,and the ever loving James Bond theme was playing the entire time as usual.Would I recommend it? I definately would rent it to see more of it.

Other than that so far it looks to be a great game.Feb sales wont be as good as March sales though.Thats going to be a kick ass month for all consoles.

Games huh? I guess I could talk games if you want.

As for the game of the year situation, I didn't enjoy KOTOR much at all and still am unable to figure out why so many publications, gamers and reveiwers loved it so much. I don't think any game that forces me to start over because the game froze up 10 hours in should ever win a "game of the year" award. But that's just my opinion. I did find it interesting that on gaming sites dedicated to only RPGs (allrpg.com, rpgamer.com) KOTOR got little or no mention. Also, the fact that FFX-2 was the runner up, despite a lot of the out cry against it has to mean something.

I haven't played WW much, only a couple of demos so I can't really comment on it. I really couldn't get past the visuals. I was hoping for a more epic style game in the vein of Ocarina of Time, one of the greatest adventure/RPGs of all time. The cel shading looks nice in action I suppose, but just didn't appeal to me.

I am really confused about Halo winning best shooter too. Wasn't that game a launch title and didn't the Xbox launch over two years ago? And don't say anything like "Halo is still better then anything else out there" That's not the point of game of the year. I'd say shooter of the year should have gone to Rainbow Six 3 or SOCOM 2. All they're doing with awards like this are making people think Xbox is a one trick pony.

As for up coming games, I played two demos for the new Bond game, one on PS2 and one on Xbox on the same TV. Graphically, there was no noticeable difference. As for the game itself, I thought it controller like a badly done platformer for the N64. The camera and lock-on system is awful. I kept ending up runnig away from the enemies and shooting wildly till I could get the camera around and lock on. Not fun. It settled down a bit when you had a wall to attach yourself (and the camera) to, but didn't seem like it would work too well in a action packed fire fight.

Another game I saw two demo movies for was Jade Empire by the KOTOR guys. I was hoping they could redeem themselves (in my eyes here, totally opinion based) now that they were making a game not based in the SW universe and using the D&D rules to the letter. I consider the first Baulder's Gate game for PC to be one of my all-time favorites so I was sure they wouldn't fail me again.
I hate to pass judgement on a game when all I have seen is one promo movie and two gameplay demo movies, but I have to with this game. The enviorments look stunning. The way the grass moves and the varied terrain blow KOTOR away completely. But that said, the main character (a woman) has some of the worst design and animation I have seen in a next gen game. She looks totally out of proportion with a squashed head and her body is extremely squashed looking as well. And then she started to "run" and I had to look away. It looked then Enter the Matrix and I know you all's opinion of that game.
First she talks (and talks, and talks, and talks, and...) to a couple of NPCs much like KOTOR's dialogue style (which I must say I found somewhat stale) Then (finally!) she goes into this alternate shadow world and she fights this evil guy. In the combat it appears that you choose a stance and then the characters fight. There was no indication that any combos or input on the players part took place. You just choose a stance and they fight a turn then you choose another stance or spell, etc. etc. (I could be totally wrong on this though, since no menus were presented on the screen) Then the kicker was the implemantation of "Focus Mode" by the main character. Focus Mode! And I thought the character animations were like EtM!

Check out the most recent OXM demo disk if you want to, that's where I saw the two movies.

What other games do you want to talk about?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Games huh? I guess I could talk games if you want.

As for the game of the year situation, I didn't enjoy KOTOR much at all and still am unable to figure out why so many publications, gamers and reveiwers loved it so much. I don't think any game that forces me to start over because the game froze up 10 hours in should ever win a "game of the year" award. But that's just my opinion. I did find it interesting that on gaming sites dedicated to only RPGs (allrpg.com, rpgamer.com) KOTOR got little or no mention. Also, the fact that FFX-2 was the runner up, despite a lot of the out cry against it has to mean something.

I haven't played WW much, only a couple of demos so I can't really comment on it. I really couldn't get past the visuals. I was hoping for a more epic style game in the vein of Ocarina of Time, one of the greatest adventure/RPGs of all time. The cel shading looks nice in action I suppose, but just didn't appeal to me.

I am really confused about Halo winning best shooter too. Wasn't that game a launch title and didn't the Xbox launch over two years ago? And don't say anything like "Halo is still better then anything else out there" That's not the point of game of the year. I'd say shooter of the year should have gone to Rainbow Six 3 or SOCOM 2. All they're doing with awards like this are making people think Xbox is a one trick pony.

As for up coming games, I played two demos for the new Bond game, one on PS2 and one on Xbox on the same TV. Graphically, there was no noticeable difference. As for the game itself, I thought it controller like a badly done platformer for the N64. The camera and lock-on system is awful. I kept ending up runnig away from the enemies and shooting wildly till I could get the camera around and lock on. Not fun. It settled down a bit when you had a wall to attach yourself (and the camera) to, but didn't seem like it would work too well in a action packed fire fight.

Another game I saw two demo movies for was Jade Empire by the KOTOR guys. I was hoping they could redeem themselves (in my eyes here, totally opinion based) now that they were making a game not based in the SW universe and using the D&D rules to the letter. I consider the first Baulder's Gate game for PC to be one of my all-time favorites so I was sure they wouldn't fail me again.
I hate to pass judgement on a game when all I have seen is one promo movie and two gameplay demo movies, but I have to with this game. The enviorments look stunning. The way the grass moves and the varied terrain blow KOTOR away completely. But that said, the main character (a woman) has some of the worst design and animation I have seen in a next gen game. She looks totally out of proportion with a squashed head and her body is extremely squashed looking as well. And then she started to "run" and I had to look away. It looked then Enter the Matrix and I know you all's opinion of that game.
First she talks (and talks, and talks, and talks, and...) to a couple of NPCs much like KOTOR's dialogue style (which I must say I found somewhat stale) Then (finally!) she goes into this alternate shadow world and she fights this evil guy. In the combat it appears that you choose a stance and then the characters fight. There was no indication that any combos or input on the players part took place. You just choose a stance and they fight a turn then you choose another stance or spell, etc. etc. (I could be totally wrong on this though, since no menus were presented on the screen) Then the kicker was the implemantation of "Focus Mode" by the main character. Focus Mode! And I thought the character animations were like EtM!

Check out the most recent OXM demo disk if you want to, that's where I saw the two movies.

What other games do you want to talk about?

Since you mentioned that Jade Empire was a movie demo only, I hope they just took out any combo indicators from the screen to show off the rest of the game. I didn't mind KOTOR's combat, but with Jade Empire, I want full control of the character. It's still pretty early for the character design and animation, so I'm expecting them to fix any problems.

I also hope anything on the Bond demo is also fixed. I'm just glad they are trying a 3rd person view, because first person Bond was getting very stale.

How far did you get in KOTOR? Did you ever become a Jedi?

[Bob-the-Fish]

Since you mentioned that Jade Empire was a movie demo only, I hope they just took out any combo indicators from the screen to show off the rest of the game. I didn't mind KOTOR's combat, but with Jade Empire, I want full control of the character. It's still pretty early for the character design and animation, so I'm expecting them to fix any problems.

Like I said, pretty much everything said about the battle system are assumptions. I really thought the idea of a matrial arts fighting style RPG would rock and I hope I'm wrong. Really though, I thought the fact that they even called the slow down time thing "focus mode" was down right sad.

I also hope anything on the Bond demo is also fixed. I'm just glad they are trying a 3rd person view, because first person Bond was getting very stale.

Yeah they were. I haven't really played any of them since Golden Eye. The one awhile that had "Bond Points" as me an my buddy called them, was a joke. You get a point for doing something you had to do to beat the level anyway... If they fix the camera thing it will probably be a decent game IMO. There was a motorcycle chase level on a freeway as well that was pretty nice. Good sense of speed. And the movie level production doesn't hurt either.

But if the camera stays the same, there is no way I'm paying money for that game.

How far did you get in KOTOR? Did you ever become a Jedi?

Yeah I finished Dantooen (sp?) That's pretty much where I stopped. My main character was a dual lightsaber wielding dude at that point. I'm sure sometime I'll pick the game back up an finish it (hopefully without any more major glitches). I didn't think it was a terrible game by any measurement, just a game that has glitches like that shouldn't be game of the year. That's like giving TR: AoD an award for anything other then sucking...

["The Game"Evolution]

Much thanks.

I look at that list and I don't see any one of the consoles being standouts. The multiplats really raked it up. And Halo as shooter of the year? Which year are they in? Granted it was released for the PC but..... c'mon. Your words.

Anyways, the only big winner here is GC which actually placed in two of the categories. Pretty much everything else is multiplat and Sony was runner up to just about everything. Although, it still kills me that VF4 gets overlooked again. HCTP, that drek gets runner up to SC2. Please, gag me with a spoon. And uh, where's the platformer award.Your words.

It's funny though seeing Double Dash win Racing GOTY. Tell me that doesn't burn your X-bot britches.

C'mon what? Two years after its debut on the Xbox Halo once again has struck gold on the PC front.Sorry but apparently none of the Halo killer hopefuls that you PC heads bragged about on a daily basis could hold a candle to Halo.Even the overhyped PC game "Chrome" didnt stand a chance against Halo.

So Halo on the PC was overall the best shooter of 2003.And Milk drinkers favorite game SOCOM II was the runner up.
Even though the GC indeed won in two catagories so did the Xbox.Basically the statement has been said.The games on the GC and the Xbox stood up.The games on the PS2 didnt.The multiplatform titles is all the PS2 had going for it towards the end of 2003.

I think its cool that Double Dash got best racing game of the year.It was the only racing game that sold the most so it deserved the top spot.Besides why should this burn Xbox owners britches? Most of the racers on the Xbox support Xbox live.None of the racers on the GC does so why even mention such a thing?

["The Game"Evolution]

Games huh? I guess I could talk games if you want.

As for the game of the year situation, I didn't enjoy KOTOR much at all and still am unable to figure out why so many publications, gamers and reveiwers loved it so much. I don't think any game that forces me to start over because the game froze up 10 hours in should ever win a "game of the year" award. But that's just my opinion. I did find it interesting that on gaming sites dedicated to only RPGs (allrpg.com, rpgamer.com) KOTOR got little or no mention. Also, the fact that FFX-2 was the runner up, despite a lot of the out cry against it has to mean something.

I haven't played WW much, only a couple of demos so I can't really comment on it. I really couldn't get past the visuals. I was hoping for a more epic style game in the vein of Ocarina of Time, one of the greatest adventure/RPGs of all time. The cel shading looks nice in action I suppose, but just didn't appeal to me.Your words.

I am really confused about Halo winning best shooter too. Wasn't that game a launch title and didn't the Xbox launch over two years ago? And don't say anything like "Halo is still better then anything else out there" That's not the point of game of the year. I'd say shooter of the year should have gone to Rainbow Six 3 or SOCOM 2. All they're doing with awards like this are making people think Xbox is a one trick pony.Your words.

As for up coming games, I played two demos for the new Bond game, one on PS2 and one on Xbox on the same TV. Graphically, there was no noticeable difference. As for the game itself, I thought it controller like a badly done platformer for the N64. The camera and lock-on system is awful. I kept ending up runnig away from the enemies and shooting wildly till I could get the camera around and lock on. Not fun. It settled down a bit when you had a wall to attach yourself (and the camera) to, but didn't seem like it would work too well in a action packed fire fight.Your words.

Yeah,my experience with the latest Bond game was kind of shaky like that too.

Another game I saw two demo movies for was Jade Empire by the KOTOR guys. I was hoping they could redeem themselves (in my eyes here, totally opinion based) now that they were making a game not based in the SW universe and using the D&D rules to the letter. I consider the first Baulder's Gate game for PC to be one of my all-time favorites so I was sure they wouldn't fail me again.
I hate to pass judgement on a game when all I have seen is one promo movie and two gameplay demo movies, but I have to with this game. The enviorments look stunning. The way the grass moves and the varied terrain blow KOTOR away completely. But that said, the main character (a woman) has some of the worst design and animation I have seen in a next gen game. She looks totally out of proportion with a squashed head and her body is extremely squashed looking as well. And then she started to "run" and I had to look away. It looked then Enter the Matrix and I know you all's opinion of that game.
First she talks (and talks, and talks, and talks, and...) to a couple of NPCs much like KOTOR's dialogue style (which I must say I found somewhat stale) Then (finally!) she goes into this alternate shadow world and she fights this evil guy. In the combat it appears that you choose a stance and then the characters fight. There was no indication that any combos or input on the players part took place. You just choose a stance and they fight a turn then you choose another stance or spell, etc. etc. (I could be totally wrong on this though, since no menus were presented on the screen) Then the kicker was the implemantation of "Focus Mode" by the main character. Focus Mode! And I thought the character animations were like EtM!

Check out the most recent OXM demo disk if you want to, that's where I saw the two movies.

What other games do you want to talk about?

Well I'm sorry you had to go through all that with your copy of KOTOR.Nevertheless KOTOR indeed was one of the best RPG's I've ever played in the last ten years.I couldnt think of an RPG that was more deserving than this one was.None.FF X-2 indeed caught alot of flak.A all women final fantasy didnt exactly make people jump for joy.But the game turned out to be a decent one.Most RPG game sites would never accept KOTOR anyway.

Most of those guys in those RPG gaming sites are Everquest groupies to the end.
Why is Halo winning yet again confusing? Halo is one of the best games ever made.Halo raised the bar in the FPS genre two years ago.And two years later its still regarded as the best pure FPS for any console.Some would argue that Metroid Prime for the Gamecube should get more attention than Halo.But thats another story. But the truth of the matter is Bob is that Halo IS better than anything else out there.No other FPS brings that little extra to the table like Halo does.And now Halo is dominating on the PC front.

Besides you cant compare Rainbow Six 3 or SOCOM 2 to Halo.Two totally different types of games.

You wont hear me argue about the Ocarina Of Time for the N64.That was the best version I've played of Zelda ever.Everything from the time travelling to riding horseback on the countryside this game had it all.I loved this game from the word Go all the way to the final battle with Ganon in his beast form.This game rocked.Jade Empire looks like KOTOR meets Shenmue.I think Jade Empire will be definately a title to keep an eye on along with Fable.

Whatever floats your boat Bob.Talk about any games thats on your mind.

[Gadfly2317]

I think its cool that Double Dash got best racing game of the year.It was the only racing game that sold the most so it deserved the top spot.Besides why should this burn Xbox owners britches? Most of the racers on the Xbox support Xbox live.None of the racers on the GC does so why even mention such a thing?

Xbox Live makes racing better? Do you have Live yet? What is your favorite part of racing online?

Most xbox owners don't have Live, so really, when you are comparing racing games, they'd better be able to stand up on their own merits. When it comes to multi-player racing with actual real friends hanging out in your house, Mario Kart is still the king.

But for racing game of the year, I'd have voted for Project Gotham II.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Well I'm sorry you had to go through all that with your copy of KOTOR.Nevertheless KOTOR indeed was one of the best RPG's I've ever played in the last ten years.I couldnt think of an RPG that was more deserving than this one was.None.FF X-2 indeed caught alot of flak.A all women final fantasy didnt exactly make people jump for joy.But the game turned out to be a decent one.Most RPG game sites would never accept KOTOR anyway. Most of those guys in those RPG gaming sites are Everquest groupies to the end.

Actually as far as I can tell, most RPG sites wouldn't give Everquest the time of day. MMOs are usually shuned by most of the gaming world, RPG gamers included. The only fan base MMO's have are the people who play them constantly and thankfully, those people are too busy fighting rats to have time to write about their "wonderful" expeiences. The only thing FFXI (which should have been FF Online and not used a number at all) is the FF name and the fact that they are trying to bring some of the story elements of previous FF games into an MMO setting. I haven't played it and I don't know if I ever will, because like most RPG gamers, I am not a fan of giant $12 a month chat rooms.

Why is Halo winning yet again confusing? Halo is one of the best games ever made.Halo raised the bar in the FPS genre two years ago.And two years later its still regarded as the best pure FPS for any console.Some would argue that Metroid Prime for the Gamecube should get more attention than Halo.But thats another story. But the truth of the matter is Bob is that Halo IS better than anything else out there.No other FPS brings that little extra to the table like Halo does.And now Halo is dominating on the PC front.

Besides you cant compare Rainbow Six 3 or SOCOM 2 to Halo.Two totally different types of games.

Yes Halo is one of the best FPS games, yes the multiplayer rules, blah blah blah. I agree with you. I play a couple of hours of LAN Halo pretty much every weekend. That does not mean it was the best FPS game of this year. You've pretty much established that you don't really think PC games and console games should be compared in the same catagories. It's like nominating a made-for-TV movie for best movie of the year. They are similar but not quite the same. So if we're talking consoles, I would ceratinly give an award to RS3 or SOCOM 2 over a PC version of Halo. I don't play PC FPS games, so I can't compare the PC Halo with Chrome or whatever else they're playing now. So I won't claim to. But I do find it easy to compare RS3, Halo, SOCOM, RTCW, Counter Strike (console version), Metroid Prime, etc., since they are basically FPS games. Just in SOCOM you see your guy and MP involves a slightly different play style.

Amazingly enough, I believe it is possible to enjoy Halo and yet point out some of its faults that do in fact "bring it down" to the level of other FPS-style games on the market. If you want me to delve into them I would be happy too.

I'd also like to bring up that tired argument about not comparing MP and Halo because they have slightly different game styles can be used with MGS2 and SC then. Can you use a sword in SC? What about fighting a jet or 75 ft tall robots with a rocket launcher? In-level story driven cut scenes? Swimming? And in MGS2, can you use light and darkness as a weapon? How about picking locks, is that in there? Or night vision? I guess they're totally different games that can't be compared huh?

As for SOCOM and RS3, they both involve anti-terrorist squad based semi-stealth one shot kills game play don't they? Both offer a variety of moves to conceal yourself from enemies in order to line up that one shot. Both have a main focus of offering player vs player online battle supported by voice chat. And in both you shoot a guy by lining up a little aimer with the guys head and pushing the fire primary weapon button. The only difference I can see, is that in SOCOM you can see your guy and in RS3 you can't. SOCOM also moves a slightly slower pace.

Almost all analysis of games is based on comparing them to other games and seeing where they excell over the other or come up short.

["The Game"Evolution]

Much thanks.

I look at that list and I don't see any one of the consoles being standouts. The multiplats really raked it up. And Halo as shooter of the year? Which year are they in? Granted it was released for the PC but..... c'mon.

Anyways, the only big winner here is GC which actually placed in two of the categories. Pretty much everything else is multiplat and Sony was runner up to just about everything. Although, it still kills me that VF4 gets overlooked again. HCTP, that drek gets runner up to SC2. Please, gag me with a spoon. And uh, where's the platformer award.

It's funny though seeing Double Dash win Racing GOTY. Tell me that doesn't burn your X-bot britches.

The only one that apparently sounded like their asses got burned a bit is you Deathstroke.Because just about everything you said in your post sounds like the ramblings of a envious soul with an axe to grind.

[Bob-the-Fish]

A couple of other things I noticed about "the games."


EGM's Picks Of The Best Games Of 2003:....

GAME OF THE YEAR:PRINCE OF PERSIA

A multiplat game was the editor's choice for game of the year. What does that tell you about the powers of "exclusives?" Maybe having great exclusives isn't all it's cracked up to be...

ACTION GAME OF THE YEAR:SPLINTER CELL(RUNNER UP LORD OF THE RINGS:ROTK)

Didn't SC come out about a year and a half ago? And didn't it win awards last year? Why is it here again?


RACING GAME OF THE YEAR:MARIO KARTOUBLE DASH(RUNNER UP NEED FOR SPEED UNDERGROUND)

ONLINE GAME OF THE YEAR:STAR WARS GALAXIES(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

SHOOTER OF THE YEAR:HALO(RUNNER UP SOCOM II)

The Xbox lost big time in two of it's most heralded genres. Where's PGR2 or Midtown Madness (a game that was harped about to no end for its amazing graphics and online play) in the raceing catagory? They got beat by a kart racer on GC (which is laughed at often for it's lack of quality titles in this area) and a racer made famous and with extra features on the PS2. Not even a runner up for a system that totes racers as one of it's greatest strengths.

But the real shocker is in the online catagory. Not even a runner up for a Live game at all. Beaten by an MMORPG on the PC and SLOWCOM as it is so ingeniously called by a certain Xbot.

Also most of the multiplat games that appeared on the list were EA games which feature online play only on the PS2.

In fact the only awards the Xbox actually won was for Halo and KOTOR. The console version of Halo is two years old so it is most likely the award is for the PC version of Halo which means the Xbox has a stunning total of one game that won or was runner up in any of the catagories. I suppose if you want to nit pick, you can say that SC has the best version on the Xbox because of downloadable content but in that case, the PS2 had runner ups in three catagories and four games that have a "better' version on the PS2 because of online content. The GC got two wins. What's up with that?

["The Game"Evolution]

A couple of other things I noticed about "the games."



A multiplat game was the editor's choice for game of the year. What does that tell you about the powers of "exclusives?" Maybe having great exclusives isn't all it's cracked up to be...Your words.

Didn't SC come out about a year and a half ago? And didn't it win awards last year? Why is it here again?Your words.

The Xbox lost big time in two of it's most heralded genres. Where's PGR2 or Midtown Madness (a game that was harped about to no end for its amazing graphics and online play) in the raceing catagory? They got beat by a kart racer on GC (which is laughed at often for it's lack of quality titles in this area) and a racer made famous and with extra features on the PS2. Not even a runner up for a system that totes racers as one of it's greatest strengths.Your words.

But the real shocker is in the online catagory. Not even a runner up for a Live game at all. Beaten by an MMORPG on the PC and SLOWCOM as it is so ingeniously called by a certain Xbot. Your words.

Also most of the multiplat games that appeared on the list were EA games which feature online play only on the PS2.Your words.

In fact the only awards the Xbox actually won was for Halo and KOTOR. The console version of Halo is two years old so it is most likely the award is for the PC version of Halo which means the Xbox has a stunning total of one game that won or was runner up in any of the catagories. I suppose if you want to nit pick, you can say that SC has the best version on the Xbox because of downloadable content but in that case, the PS2 had runner ups in three catagories and four games that have a "better' version on the PS2 because of online content. The GC got two wins. What's up with that?

Well how old is Sonic Adventure 1 & 2? How old is Resident Evil 2,3,and Code Veronica? How old is Phantasy Star Online? How old is Counter-Strike? How old is the original PSX classic Metal Gear Solid? Does it matter how old a title is these days? I dont think so.

No shocker with Mario Kart beating out games like PGR2 and Midtown Madness.Not at all.Mario Kart has been around since the N64.Plus without question Mario Kart sold more copies than any other racer on the Xbox or the PS2.Thats a no brainer.But yet Halo was listed as the better shooting game over SOCOM II.Imagine that.

Very true.Cant argue that.Most of EA's games are online only for the PS2.Thats a fact.Considering that the PS2 has been out longer than the GC and the Xbox whas Sony's excuse for the PS2's lack of having all genres for GOTY honors covered?

Maybe you're right on that.ITs all about which console has the best version of the multiplatform titles.95% of the time the Xbox's version is the best,then the Gamecube's,and last the PS2's.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Well how old is Sonic Adventure 1 & 2? How old is Resident Evil 2,3,and Code Veronica? How old is Phantasy Star Online? How old is Counter-Strike? How old is the original PSX classic Metal Gear Solid? Does it matter how old a title is these days? I dont think so.

Certainly true. The video game industry has been using old franchises and rereleasing old games with increasing frequency the last couple of years. However, I was refering to games that won awards in this specific year which none of those have.

I think it's bad for the Xbox's (and all systems) image if the same games win awards year after year. It also down plays the actual validity of the awards. The movie industry has the oscars music has the grammys and an movie or song never wins in a year it was not released. Movies and a songs can't get nominated for the same exact product. Games should be the same way.


No shocker with Mario Kart beating out games like PGR2 and Midtown Madness. Not at all.Mario Kart has been around since the N64.Plus without question Mario Kart sold more copies than any other racer on the Xbox or the PS2.Thats a no brainer.But yet Halo was listed as the better shooting game over SOCOM II.Imagine that.

Sales shouldn't matter but I know that's not the case. This being "player's choice" they will vote on the games they play. I'd say Halo won for the same reason DD did: name recognition.

Truthfully, I wasn't surprised that Halo won. I just think it's crap that it beat really great games from 2003 and didn't allow games like RS3 their chance to shine.

What I thought was shocking though was the lack of online awards for Xbox. Thier service is better and features some top games. But they got beat by SLOWCOM. Ouch.


Very true.Cant argue that.Most of EA's games are online only for the PS2.Thats a fact.Considering that the PS2 has been out longer than the GC and the Xbox whas Sony's excuse for the PS2's lack of having all genres for GOTY honors covered?

What does the number of years a console has been out have to do with GOTY awards? The awards are based on the games not the consoles. Using another movie analogy, it's the same reason MGM doesn't win Oscars every year.


Maybe you're right on that.ITs all about which console has the best version of the multiplatform titles.95% of the time the Xbox's version is the best,then the Gamecube's,and last the PS2's.

I guess if you don't count EA that's true, but looking at the list you posted of the best games of 2003 (or whatever their time table was) it seems EA plays quite a role wouldn't you say?