Video Card Shopping On a Budget

[no.1gamer]

I need some help from you hardcore PC gamers. I'm not very educated in the whole "system requirements" for PC gaming. All I know is that my computer goes into a comma when lots of action appears on-screen. Now I know that most of you guys would just crank down the "performance" of the game in the options menu. However, I am a lazy gamer and I feel that instead of messing around with that stuff, it is time to upgrade.

I'm looking for something in the 64 MB range for the simple reason that it's the cheapest way to go. I mostly play RTS games (and I'll probably be getting a good turn-based RPG in the near future) so I probably don't need a top of the line graphics card necessary to play the latest FPS or whatever. However, if you guys think I should go with something more powerful, I have no problem spending a little more money.

I would like to go with a product from ATI because they provide the graphics for the Nintendo Gamecube, and I'm very happy with the graphics of my Gamecube. I would like to avoid anything that says NVIDIA on it because I had a Geforce video card that prematurely died on me. But I'm open to suggestions and if NVIDIA is the best in the business I'll be forced to buy their product (much the same way I'm using a Microsoft OS).

[Hieremias]

Actually you can get a 128mb Radeon 9000 Pro for well under $100 US. That's what I have, and I have no complaints. Note that it's the 9000 <b>Pro</b>. The normal 9000 is inferior and, when I was in the store, only offered a $10 saving over its bigger brother. Also note that some third-party companies make graphics cards cheaper than ATI-brand cards; mine is a Sapphire (it still uses ATI's Radeon chipset and ATI's Catalyst drivers).

Make no mistake, this is not leading-edge hardware. But it's roughly equivalent to a Geforce4 Ti, and it's a 128mb card, so it'll likely be good for another year anyway.

What kind of system do you already have? More RAM is often a cheap way to improve performance, I would suggest having 512mb (or more). My next upgrade will be my processor; I have 512mb RAM and a Radeon 9000 Pro, but only a 900MHz processor.

And finally, don't compare PC graphics cards to those on the consoles, especially the Gamecube. Console cards are only required to produce very low-resolution graphics with fluid motion but poor textures.

[no.1gamer]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Actually you can get a 128mb Radeon 9000 Pro for well under $100 US. That's what I have, and I have no complaints. Note that it's the 9000 <b>Pro</b>. The normal 9000 is inferior and, when I was in the store, only offered a $10 saving over its bigger brother. Also note that some third-party companies make graphics cards cheaper than ATI-brand cards; mine is a Sapphire (it still uses ATI's Radeon chipset and ATI's Catalyst drivers).

Make no mistake, this is not leading-edge hardware. But it's roughly equivalent to a Geforce4 Ti, and it's a 128mb card, so it'll likely be good for another year anyway.

What kind of system do you already have? More RAM is often a cheap way to improve performance, I would suggest having 512mb (or more). My next upgrade will be my processor; I have 512mb RAM and a Radeon 9000 Pro, but only a 900MHz processor.

And finally, don't compare PC graphics cards to those on the consoles, especially the Gamecube. Console cards are only required to produce very low-resolution graphics with fluid motion but poor textures.</div>

Hey, thanks for the help Hieremias! 128 MB for 100 dollars sounds like what I'm looking for! This will also leave me with enough money for a RAM upgrade as you recommend. Or perhaps a turn-based RPG as I previously mentioned.

You said the Radeon 9000 is inferior to the 9000 pro. What is the difference beyond the ### MB statistic? Again I'm not an expert so the only thing I can identify with is the brand name and # of MB.

And I am aware that graphics cards in consoles are different than that of the PC. It's just that I'm not very familiar with most of the video card brands available. It's like me saying I have a Sony Wega TV and am very happy with it. Therefore I would not hesitate to choose Sony audio equipment to use with it. Do you see what I'm saying? It's just a brand name that I recognize.

[DBS]

Usually the difference is the core and memory clock speeds. Pro are tweaked higher for faster speeds and better performance. But I am using a old GeForce 3 card that still runs fine with 64 megs of memory.
You can always check out ebay as well for deals as you be surprised what people sell off cheap to have the newest and greatest now a days....

[no.1gamer]

Ok, here's my plan. I'm going to go with 256mb of RAM and probably the Radeon 9000 Pro that you suggested. Will this give me a pretty good gaming computer?

My system right now meets the "system requirements" of the games I like to play. However, what I've found is that it provides me with almost unplayable access to them. Apparently I must go above and beyond the "system requirements" especially to remain competitive online.

This is probably common knowledge to you guys but I've always played yesterday's technology on my out of date system. To me this is the way to go because I still get to play great games just not while they reign as "the latest and greatest" of electronic entertainment. This way I don't have to spend an incredible amount of money having the most bad @$$ computer around, as I'm assuming some of you have. I do respect those of you who do this, I just don't have the resources to keep up with the cutting edge technology.

So, while you guys were playing Battlefield 1942 and Warcraft 3, I was playing Counterstrike, Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2 and Diablo 2. And while you guys are now playing Call of Duty and Rise of Nations, I'm playing Warcraft 3 (well trying to anyway). The expansion pack I just picked up has the same system requirements, but I've found that my computer is having trouble playing it. I'm assuming they've improved the graphics or something, but I'm not really sure because my computer can't run it as any form of a playable game. And like I said before I'm primarily a lazy gamer (aka console gamer), therefore I feel I should just upgrade instead of fumbling abound with the performance attributes.

BTW, can anyone recommend a good turn based RPG that has a good story and some great RPG elements in it. I would like one that will keep me busy for a while. Thanks for all the help guys.

[E.T.]

BTW, can anyone recommend a good turn based RPG that has a good story and some great RPG elements in it. I would like one that will keep me busy for a while. Thanks for all the help guys.</div>

A "good" TBS game is Disciples 2: Nevendarr Chronicles.
This game can be challenging & lenghty.
System requirements are light:
WIn 95/89/XP
P2, 300mhz
64 mb ram
Vid card: 16 mb
These are minimum, having more hardware is obviously better.

[Hieremias]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Ok, here's my plan. I'm going to go with 256mb of RAM and probably the Radeon 9000 Pro that you suggested. Will this give me a pretty good gaming computer?

My system right now meets the "system requirements" of the games I like to play. However, what I've found is that it provides me with almost unplayable access to them. Apparently I must go above and beyond the "system requirements" especially to remain competitive online.</div>

Provided your processor is powerful enough, then yes a 128mb Radeon 9000 Pro and 256mb of RAM is a reasonably good setup for a low price. My processor is only 900MHz and it's seriously showing its age, I want to upgrade it as soon as I can (I'm currently suffering from an out-of-money experience). If your processor is less than 1.5GHz I would suggest upgrading.

As for "remaining competitive online", if you're referring to online shooters like Battlefield 1942, the only real factor here is your internet speed. You can trim the details down to get a suitable framerate, but if you only have a 56K connection it'll likely be really laggy.

Also, you probably know this already, but always looks for the recent patches for online games. Battlefield 1942 has been patched many times, it's far less laggy and more stable than it was on release.

Finally, when buying your video card make sure you get the right one. There are many different incarnations of the Radeon 9000, make sure you get the <b>128mb Pro</b> variant.

As for a turn-based <b>RPG</b>, there aren't many (are you sure you meant RPG and not strategy?). Fallout and Fallout 2 have turn-based combat and are very deep RPGs. Jagged Alliance 2 is turn-based with RPG elements, and stands as the single greatest strategy game ever made. All of these games are old though. As for new ones, hmmm... I'm not really sure.

But if you haven't played Jagged Alliance 2 you are seriously missing out on one of the greatest games ever made. Forget its age, it's a wonderful experience.

[Aku]

<div class=\"smallfont\">This is probably common knowledge to you guys but I've always played yesterday's technology on my out of date system. To me this is the way to go because I still get to play great games just not while they reign as "the latest and greatest" of electronic entertainment. This way I don't have to spend an incredible amount of money having the most bad @$$ computer around, as I'm assuming some of you have. I do respect those of you who do this, I just don't have the resources to keep up with the cutting edge technology.

BTW, can anyone recommend a good turn based RPG that has a good story and some great RPG elements in it. I would like one that will keep me busy for a while. Thanks for all the help guys.</div>

Playing yesterday's games is the way I've usually gone. That's because yesterday's games are just as much fun as today's games, if not always as pretty. And most people who race out and buy today's hot new games usually end up never playing many of yesterday's great games, which is quite ironic. A game is a game. If you've never played it, it's a new game, regardless of when it came out. Most of my favorite 'new' games are old games.

As for turn-based rpg, try Arcanum or Wizardry 8. Both are very cool in their own way, and both have outstanding character creation systems. Wizardry 8 is a tough one - read some of the reviews, including mine. :)
Wizardry 8 is 3D, but the graphics shouldn't kill your machine. Arcanum is from the Fallout people, and is 2D isometric. Problem with Arcanum and performance is that it eats up memory sometimes while you play it, and won't release it back to the system, causing the game to slow down after playing for awhile. So keep a good memory manager handy to deal with it.

[no.1gamer]

As for the internet speed issue. I got rid of my 56K connection long ago. I have a lightning fast cable connection, but while in a chaotic battle of Warcraft 3 with all that action on the screen it slows down (gets choppy) and eventually stops for several seconds at a time because of computing issues. And as you know several seconds in an RTS can mean certain doom for the front lines of your army. This happens on the single player game also but not to the same extent because the magnitude of the battles are smaller than the online play. Last week I was playing on a team and I actually gave control of my army to my teammate before attacking because if I were in charge, they all would have been slaughtered. I get frustrated when I can't control my units because my computer is acting up on me then they just wander into danger. So I'm pretty sure that after these upgrades I'll be a force to be reckoned with on battle.net.

I have a Pentium 3 processor. I'll be sure to be specific while looking for the video card.

I was actually looking for a turn based RPG (as in role playing game). I'll check out all the games you guys mentioned. I want one with a good story. I like to wander around gaining experience and building powerful characters, as opposed to just beating the game as fast as possible. Do you know what I mean? I would also like some online elements but want to stay away from an MMORPG or anything with a monthly fee.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
I was actually looking for a turn based RPG (as in role playing game). I'll check out all the games you guys mentioned. I want one with a good story. I like to wander around gaining experience and building powerful characters, as opposed to just beating the game as fast as possible. Do you know what I mean? I would also like some online elements but want to stay away from an MMORPG or anything with a monthly fee.</div>

Try these TBS RPG's. Jagged Alliance 2, Fallout, Fallout 2, Wizardry 8, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic. For more conventional RPG's try Morrowind, System Shock 2, Deus Ex (the original) or Neverwinter Nights. Neverwinter Nights is highly recommended by me for the awesome online (free) content. Find the right server that matches your gaming style, and man, you could spend some serious time gaming your life away... NWN is as close to a MMORPG you can get, but without the monthly fees.

[Aku]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
I was actually looking for a turn based RPG (as in role playing game). I'll check out all the games you guys mentioned. I want one with a good story. I like to wander around gaining experience and building powerful characters, as opposed to just beating the game as fast as possible. Do you know what I mean? I would also like some online elements but want to stay away from an MMORPG or anything with a monthly fee.</div>

Arcanum's story is great. Wizardry 8's story isn't as great, but it's good enough, and there's lots of npc interaction with real spoken dialogue. If creating a powerful party is your main goal, look no further than W8. The biggest reward in the game is the super powerful party you painstakingly develop. And the enemies keep ramping up, so your super party will still be challenged right up to the end.

Another great rpg for party development, and that has turn-based combat, is Might and Magic. If you can get past the dated graphics (unaccelerated 3D kind of looks like Doom), this is a really fun series. Might and Magic 6 is the best - enormous world to explore, tons of dungeons, quests. MM7 and MM8 are also good. Haven't played MM9.

[Renzatic Gear]

I deeply, heartily, fully, and completely recommend Fallout 1 & 2. They're quite possibly 2 of the greatest RPG's you'll ever play....if you can get past the higher-than-usual difficulty level.

Arcanum would be another game I'd recommend if you end up enjoying those 2. But even though it uses a similar gameplay engine to the Fallout series, and is in fact made by most of the same people, I couldn't seem to get into it. The setting is great, the music is different and interesting, and the graphics, though dated, are good enough to set the mood and atmosphere, but it felt like something was missing.

[Static_Fred]

From personal experience, i know it's hard to drop a good chunk of money down on a decent graphic card. I bought the "low end" cards for a few years trying to conserve money, but was never satisfied with the performance. When i finally broke down and bought my Ti4200 (this was like 2 years ago folks!), i was so amazed by the difference it made, and it wasn't even the top of the line card (actually not even close).

Think of it this way, if you invest heavy into your computer by buying the quality parts, your not going to have to upgrade as often as you do if your only buying just enough to get by.

BTW, i'm not ragging on any of the low-end cards of today's technology, i actually havn't kept up on the graphic cards (all i know is that the radeon 9800 pro is the fastest at the moment?). From personal experience, when i was looking for cards, i just remember the Radeon 7000 series and Nvidia MX series being a waste of money...

[no.1gamer]

Well, I just got finished installing 256 MB of RAM! I'm now clocking in at a grand total of "383.0 MB of RAM!" Immediately after installation I logged on to battle.net to participate in a game. WOW!!! That made a world of difference! Thanks for the help guys. It runs with no choppiness whatsoever! With my speedy computer I mopped the floor with my opponent of course!

I AM NOW THE WARCRAFT 3 AUTHORITY!!!

The only problem is that I think I have now become one of you guys! Next on my list is a 128 mb video card. Plus I’m actually tempted to crank up the performance to see just how good Warcraft 3 can look! I’m becoming an official PC gamer! My Gamecube is getting jealous! Once my graphics card is installed, I’ll look into all these RPG recommendations.

Special thanks to Hieremias who suggested the upgrade in RAM.