Does it really matter who is # 2?

[The Prince of Darkness]

For a while now we have had numerous discussions, some backed up by links and some not, about who is really number two. I have just two thoughts about that. First, why does it even matter? The race is obviously too close to call. The real issue is that it is really not a landslide in either direction, so I don't really think that either MS or Nintendo is making any progress at all towards denting Sony's huge lead or their game making reputation. In effect, they are shooting each other in the foot. I mean we knew that Sony was going to win this console war, but I know that I at least thought that the MS and Nintendo consoles would gain more of a reputation than they have. If you go out and talk to someone that is not "in the know" about the videogame world I have found that many have not even heard of the Xbox or GC. The one's that have heard of them would not even seriously entertain the notion of buying something besides a PS2.
My second thought concerns the actual sources that these numbers are coming from. I don't really understand why it seems to be so difficult to figure out exactly what the worldwide figures are, but for some reason these figures always seem jaded. I mean what gives here? If you want to find out exactly how many Honda Accords were sold worldwide I am sure that you could get an accurate figure. I guess we will just never know unless MS or Nintendo distances itself from the other. I think that the bottom line is that the whole discussion about # 2 is pretty fruitless. Perhaps we should just stick to talking about a much more interesting topic---stellar reviews of practically the entire Xbox holiday lineup vs. probable stellar sales of the one GC title that matters this holiday season---Mario Kart.

[tekbit]

I often wonder why numbers matter so much too. But I guess it is because everything else is a matter of opinion and taste. All thats left is who has a larger following, because I guess people around here assume that more popularity automatically makes you better.

[no.1gamer]

Does it really matter who is in #2?

No it doesn't. The Gamecube is still better.

[The Buzz]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I often wonder why numbers matter so much too. But I guess it is because everything else is a matter of opinion and taste. All thats left is who has a larger following, because I guess people around here assume that more popularity automatically makes you better.</div>

It matter's more to GC "fans" from what I can see. There have been many more post's from Nintendo fans defending the GC and placing it in the second slot than the other way around...or so it seems.

It may just be a case of more of the SAME "Cubers" posting/defending the "Cube" over and over again...

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

It matter's more to GC "fans" from what I can see. There have been many more post's from Nintendo fans defending the GC and placing it in the second slot than the other way around...or so it seems.

It may just be a case of more of the SAME "Cubers" posting/defending the "Cube" over and over again...</div>

I beg to differ. Gamecube was in definite third for a long time. Xbots were fixated on that. The point was that historically the market could only sustain two consoles, so the loser would presumably fail like the dreamcast. It was more fun to defend the GC back then, too. It's always more fun to defend the underdog (that's why you see such feeble attempts to defend the PS2---because, who cares since it has sold a zillion more than everyone else.) Anyway, GC fans tended to defend not on 2nd or 3rd place, but who was making money, and who was making better quality software. We thrashed your FPS console with one poorly reviewed game another, and the fact that the only success for xbox was bill gates dumping money down a hole. We were much more interested in Nintendo profitablity as ensuring its survival in the market, and that the never ending and higher-than-expected losses for xbox meant Bill would eventually pull the plug on it.

As for the recent razzing about xbox being in third, its not the Gamecube fans really care all that much, it has just been fun to turn the tables, and there are a couple of sales obsessed xbots who seem to be really irritated by it. That's why we do it: to hear your tortured arguments about how Japan has ceased to exist.

It has been great to see the xbox line-up really shape up this year, especially this fall. Finally, a diverse line-up of high quality titles. This is now a system I feel comfortable recommending to anyone.

But for the record, I do think by January, xbox will be in a clear third place in global sales.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Does it really matter who is in #2?

No it doesn't. The Gamecube is still better.</div>


Thanks for your usual insight Gamer!

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

But for the record, I do think by January, xbox will be in a clear third place in global sales.</div>


I think that it really depends on an Xbox price drop. Sorry to be so obvious, but we have seen exactly what a nice price drop can do in the case of the GC.

[trebor]

As for the recent razzing about xbox being in third, its not the Gamecube fans really care all that much, it has just been fun to turn the tables, and there are a couple of sales obsessed xbots who seem to be really irritated by it. That's why we do it: to hear your tortured arguments about how Japan has ceased to exist.

DING DING DING DING!!! Very well put, Gadfly.

This whole "# 2" thing is pure System Wars ammo - and that's it.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">DING DING DING DING!!! Very well put, Gadfly.

This whole "# 2" thing is pure System Wars ammo - and that's it.</div>

Come on Trebor---I thought that you were going to be the one to explain the "real point" to me. I know that the # 2 thing is just competitive banter, but the question is why are these damn numbers so sketchy? I mean why is it possible to determine the worldwide sales of practically every other product, but not console sales?

[trebor]

Come on Trebor---I thought that you were going to be the one to explain the "real point" to me. I know that the # 2 thing is just competitive banter, but the question is why are these damn numbers so sketchy? I mean why is it possible to determine the worldwide sales of practically every other product, but not console sales?

Is it that easy to determine the worldwide sales of other products? I beg to differ.

For one thing, there are a lot of misleading things to consider - like the difference between units "shipped" and units that are actually "purchased". I'm not a business-minded individual, per se, but from my limited understanding, when a company ships a product to stores, the stores, in effect, have "bought" the product and are responsible to sell said product on their own terms. So does said company know how many units have been sold in stores or do they know how many units were shipped to the stores? I'm sure they probably know both, but the "shipping" numbers are probably more accurate than the "sales" numbers.

Also, we are dealing with highly competitive, and secretive, companies that will twist and turn the facts in order to make it seem like their product is "the best".

But aside from all that mumbo-jumbo you said it best in the first post - # 2 isn't really that important outside of System Wars. It certainly doesn't seem important once you see how much of a lead # 1 is compared to the lead between # 2 and # 3. The sales between the GC and Xbox are so close that nobody probably knows, accurately, who is in the lead. We only know that the PS2 is tromping both consoles and will continue to tromp them.

[GameLegend]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Is it that easy to determine the worldwide sales of other products? I beg to differ.

For one thing, there are a lot of misleading things to consider - like the difference between units "shipped" and units that are actually "purchased". I'm not a business-minded individual, per se, but from my limited understanding, when a company ships a product to stores, the stores, in effect, have "bought" the product and are responsible to sell said product on their own terms. So does said company know how many units have been sold in stores or do they know how many units were shipped to the stores? I'm sure they probably know both, but the "shipping" numbers are probably more accurate than the "sales" numbers.

Also, we are dealing with highly competitive, and secretive, companies that will twist and turn the facts in order to make it seem like their product is "the best".

But aside from all that mumbo-jumbo you said it best in the first post - # 2 isn't really that important outside of System Wars. It certainly doesn't seem important once you see how much of a lead # 1 is compared to the lead between # 2 and # 3. The sales between the GC and Xbox are so close that nobody probably knows, accurately, who is in the lead. We only know that the PS2 is tromping both consoles and will continue to tromp them.</div>

well put
(its been a while since i messaged here...but it doesnt seem i missed a whole lot)
Oh by the way, i m starting a newspaper videogame section for my school, any news on any console company will be greatly appreciated!!

[GameLegend]

BTW, do u guys know any good console news websites? Thanks
Back to the situation at hand:
#2 in system wars matters. That way the GC'ers or Xbots can plague each others head of which system is 'winning'