Game Informers Review scores from its December issue. [Archive]

"The Game"Evolution

11-22-2003, 02:05 PM

PS2:
Ratchet & Clank:Going Commando-9.5/GOTM
Prince Of Persia-9.5
SOCOM II-9
Need For Speed:Underground-9.5
Tony Hawk's Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Final Fantasy X-2-8.75
True Crime-8.5
Medal Of Honor:Rising Sun-7.75
WWE Smackdown:HCTP-8.5
XIII-7
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Space Channel 5:Special Edition-8.25
TMNT(Turtles)-7.75
Monster Rancher 4-8.25
Kill Switch-7
Crash Nitro Kart-7
King Of The Fighters 2000/2001-7.75
Backyard Wrestling-5.5
Secret Weapons Over Normandy-7.5
Culdcept-8
Time Crisis 3-7.5
Bloody Roar 4-7.5

Gamecube

Mario Kartouble Dash-9.25
Mario Party 5-2
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Beyond Good and Evil-8
Kirby Air Ride-7
Bomberman Jetters-8

Xbox

Crimson Skies-9
Project Gotham 2-8.75
Tony Hawk Underground-8.75
XIII-7
Medal Of Honor:RS-7.75
Sega GT:Online-7.75
NBA Inside Drive-6.5
Need For Speed:Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Magic The Gathering:Battlegrounds-6.5
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Kill Switch-7.5
Grabbed By The Ghoulies-4.5

Game Of The Month:Ratchet and Clank:Going Commando: 9.5 (PS2)
Shame Of The Month:Mario Party 5: 2 (GC)
Shame Of The Month runner-up:Grabbed By The Ghoulies:4.5(Xbox)
PC Game Of The Month:Max Payne 2:The Fall Of Max Payne:9.25(PC)

Thats All Folks!

__________________

folken001

11-22-2003, 02:15 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">PS2:
Ratchet & Clank:Going Commando-9.5/GOTM
Prince Of Persia-9.5
SOCOM II-9
Need For Speed:Underground-9.5
Tony Hawk's Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Final Fantasy X-2-8.75
True Crime-8.5
Medal Of Honor:Rising Sun-7.75
WWE Smackdown:HCTP-8.5
XIII-7
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Space Channel 5:Special Edition-8.25
TMNT(Turtles)-7.75
Monster Rancher 4-8.25
Kill Switch-7
Crash Nitro Kart-7
King Of The Fighters 2000/2001-7.75
Backyard Wrestling-5.5
Secret Weapons Over Normandy-7.5
Culdcept-8
Time Crisis 3-7.5
Bloody Roar 4-7.5

Gamecube

Mario Kartouble Dash-9.25
Mario Party 5-2
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Beyond Good and Evil-8
Kirby Air Ride-7
Bomberman Jetters-8

Xbox

Crimson Skies-9
Project Gotham 2-8.75
Tony Hawk Underground-8.75
XIII-7
Medal Of Honor:RS-7.75
Sega GT:Online-7.75
NBA Inside Drive-6.5
Need For Speed:Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Magic The Gathering:Battlegrounds-6.5
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Kill Switch-7.5
Grabbed By The Ghoulies-4.5

Game Of The Month:Ratchet and Clank:Going Commando: 9.5 (PS2)
Shame Of The Month:Mario Party 5: 2 (GC)
Shame Of The Month runner-up:Grabbed By The Ghoulies:4.5(Xbox)
PC Game Of The Month:Max Payne 2:The Fall Of Max Payne:9.25(PC)

Thats All Folks!

__________________</div>

For some reason, I enjoy FFX-2 more than FFX. Perhaps, it's because I found Tidus's voice annoying...?

slade

11-22-2003, 03:16 PM

Maybe I should post the EGM scores and show you the shame of the month for that magazine.

massimodo

11-22-2003, 05:18 PM

I'd be curious to see their reasons for according Mario Party 5 a 2 and a shame of the month award. Not that I'm not going "he-he-he". But still, a 2!! Hell, that's even lower than GBTG. The shame of the month winner should've been MOH:Rising Sun. Now, that game is a shame.

Gadfly2317

11-22-2003, 05:41 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">PS2:
Ratchet & Clank:Going Commando-9.5/GOTM
Prince Of Persia-9.5
SOCOM II-9
Need For Speed:Underground-9.5
Tony Hawk's Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Final Fantasy X-2-8.75
True Crime-8.5
Medal Of Honor:Rising Sun-7.75
WWE Smackdown:HCTP-8.5
XIII-7
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Space Channel 5:Special Edition-8.25
TMNT(Turtles)-7.75
Monster Rancher 4-8.25
Kill Switch-7
Crash Nitro Kart-7
King Of The Fighters 2000/2001-7.75
Backyard Wrestling-5.5
Secret Weapons Over Normandy-7.5
Culdcept-8
Time Crisis 3-7.5
Bloody Roar 4-7.5

Gamecube

Mario Kartouble Dash-9.25
Mario Party 5-2
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Beyond Good and Evil-8
Kirby Air Ride-7
Bomberman Jetters-8

Xbox

Crimson Skies-9
Project Gotham 2-8.75
Tony Hawk Underground-8.75
XIII-7
Medal Of Honor:RS-7.75
Sega GT:Online-7.75
NBA Inside Drive-6.5
Need For Speed:Underground-9.25
Lord Of The Rings:ROTK-8.25
Magic The Gathering:Battlegrounds-6.5
Beyond Good & Evil-8
Kill Switch-7.5
Grabbed By The Ghoulies-4.5

Game Of The Month:Ratchet and Clank:Going Commando: 9.5 (PS2)
Shame Of The Month:Mario Party 5: 2 (GC)
Shame Of The Month runner-up:Grabbed By The Ghoulies:4.5(Xbox)
PC Game Of The Month:Max Payne 2:The Fall Of Max Payne:9.25(PC)

Thats All Folks!

__________________</div>

I know you've enjoyed posting the low Mario Party score in other threads. And hell, that is pretty good systems war fodder. Give us more though. Did it say why they gave it a dreadful score and the shame of the month? I mean, what was wrong with it? I'm not a big fan of the series--the only one I've played at all is MP4 a few times with my daughter, fiance, and father-in-law--in otherwords, it was good to play with non-gamers. It was basically just a goofy, superficially fun board game. I wonder what they could have done to turn it into a disaster. All I can think is that the new mini-games must really suck.

"The Game"Evolution

11-22-2003, 11:53 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Maybe I should post the EGM scores and show you the shame of the month for that magazine.</div>

Drake was a game that no one really knew about to begin with on the Xbox.That is the EGM's shame of the month.And Game Informers Shame of The Month:Mario Party 5 received a Silver Award inside the latest EGM.Imagine that.Different strokes for different folks I guess.

GameLegend

11-23-2003, 08:50 AM

When u go down the list u cant help but ask yourself:
Is that all the games they reviewed for the GC?
Common there are tonz more new games for the GC, why did they only review those? Dont tell me that the GC doesnt have much games comming out, cuz thats just boloney.

no.1gamer

11-24-2003, 08:41 AM

The fact that Game Informer gave Mario Party 5 a 2/10 shows that they are obviously biased towards the series and it subtracts from their credibility. No game should receive a 2/10 unless it's flawed to the point where it is unplayable (or maybe if it erases your memory card or something). It would be like reading a review of a Nintendo game written by massimodo.

Tappy_Tibbons

11-24-2003, 10:15 AM

Come on Slade, you know you wanna play Drake!!

slade

11-24-2003, 10:56 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Come on Slade, you know you wanna play Drake!!</div>

Ok, cutting through all the Game's BS, I'd just like to say that from Drake's description, yes, it is a game I'd likely want to play. In fact, it would likely attract me more then X-box's high scoring games which again consist of genres and subgenres that I might dabble in but am not really into. Now, the scores would turn me off from getting this game. Again, it is a missed opportunity for the X-box to excel in a genre I like.

"The Game"Evolution

11-24-2003, 10:28 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Ok, cutting through all the Game's BS, I'd just like to say that from Drake's description, yes, it is a game I'd likely want to play. In fact, it would likely attract me more then X-box's high scoring games which again consist of genres and subgenres that I might dabble in but am not really into. Now, the scores would turn me off from getting this game. Again, it is a missed opportunity for the X-box to excel in a genre I like.</div>

But sometimes you cant strictly go by what a review had to say about a game.Sometimes you have to play the game for yourself to know for sure.And it sounds like Drake has your interest.

slade

11-25-2003, 02:48 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

But sometimes you cant strictly go by what a review had to say about a game.Sometimes you have to play the game for yourself to know for sure.And it sounds like Drake has your interest.</div>

Astute advice coming from someone that judged Metroid Prime and Mario Sunshine from two minute play sessions. Perhaps you should try taking your own advice sometime in the future.

And unfortunately, when it comes to games on systems I don't own, I will often go by review scores unless the game has really caught my attention.

"The Game"Evolution

11-25-2003, 03:18 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Astute advice coming from someone that judged Metroid Prime and Mario Sunshine from two minute play sessions. Perhaps you should try taking your own advice sometime in the future.

And unfortunately, when it comes to games on systems I don't own, I will often go by review scores unless the game has really caught my attention.</div>

Anyone can go to their local EB or Gamestop and play these games.At times thats exactly what I did.When you were just born I was buying my first console at the age of 11.

It doesnt take long for me to know if I'm feeling a game or not.Plus it really doesnt take long to observe a games pros in cons within a half hour to forty five minutes.(What do you think most videogame editors do for their reviews?)

No I dont own a GC,but when it comes to a high profile game thats making alot of noise I make sure that I go down to my local videogame store to play the game for myself when it becomes available to play.

So no need to tell me to take my own advise Slade.Because unlike you I dont rely totally on game reviews to decide on what to buy or what not to buy.I can pretty much spot a sleeper hit to a overhyped piece of trash right away.That goes for the GC,the PS2,or the Xbox.

slade

11-25-2003, 04:51 AM

So you can .... ahem .... derive a feeling. :D

Anyone can go to their local EB or Gamestop and play these games.At times thats exactly what I did.When you were just born I was buying my first console at the age of 11.

I feel so happy for you. At eleven, all I had was my NES.

It doesnt take long for me to know if I'm feeling a game or not.Plus it really doesnt take long to observe a games pros in cons within a half hour to forty five minutes.(What do you think most videogame editors do for their reviews?)

So, should I listen to their "learned" opinions or not?

No I dont own a GC,but when it comes to a high profile game thats making alot of noise I make sure that I go down to my local videogame store to play the game for myself when it becomes available to play.

I make that effort only for games that really interest me and they don't necessarily have to be AAA titles.

So no need to tell me to take my own advise Slade.Because unlike you I dont rely totally on game reviews to decide on what to buy or what not to buy.I can pretty much spot a sleeper hit to a overhyped piece of trash right away.That goes for the GC,the PS2,or the Xbox.</div>

I repeat, do I put stock in their "learned" opinions or not? Why should I waste my money when someone like them can supposedly spot a piece of trash in thirty minutes or less and inform me about it.

Gadfly2317

11-25-2003, 04:58 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Anyone can go to their local EB or Gamestop and play these games.At times thats exactly what I did.When you were just born I was buying my first console at the age of 11.

It doesnt take long for me to know if I'm feeling a game or not.Plus it really doesnt take long to observe a games pros in cons within a half hour to forty five minutes.(What do you think most videogame editors do for their reviews?)

No I dont own a GC,but when it comes to a high profile game thats making alot of noise I make sure that I go down to my local videogame store to play the game for myself when it becomes available to play.

So no need to tell me to take my own advise Slade.Because unlike you I dont rely totally on game reviews to decide on what to buy or what not to buy.I can pretty much spot a sleeper hit to a overhyped piece of trash right away.That goes for the GC,the PS2,or the Xbox.</div>

Most of the time those stores you mentioned have in the company' demo disk, which tends to feature only a selected demo stage or two of the game. While you can get a small impression of the game from playing a demo, you often cannot learn much about a game from a few minutes spent with a demo, or even just a few minutes spent with the full version.

Metroid Prime is the perfect example. You don't come close to experiencing the sheer scale and depth of this game for many hours. And Mario Sunshine, if you played it just long enough to see that you still hop and do the butt-stomp, you had no idea of all the different cool things you do in it. And Eternal Darkness. Try to get a true impression of that game in 30 minutes. Obviouisly you are mistaken when you say you've formed accurate observations of a game in 30 minutes, because what you've posted about games like Metroid and Mario Sunshine sound just plain ignorant and uniformed to anyone who has played them.

What you CAN do in 30 minutes is reinforce your own preconceived bias.

"The Game"Evolution

11-25-2003, 05:10 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">So you can .... ahem .... derive a feeling. :D

I feel so happy for you. At eleven, all I had was my NES.

So, should I listen to their "learned" opinions or not?

I make that effort only for games that really interest me and they don't necessarily have to be AAA titles.

</div>

I repeat, do I put stock in their "learned" opinions or not? Why should I waste my money when someone like them can supposedly spot a piece of trash in thirty minutes or less and inform me about it.</div>

You make the effort for only games that interest you.I make the effort for games period.Relying on reviews alone isnt good enough.Sometimes you have to see for yourself if a game is as jaded as it was labled out to be.Sometimes a review can be dead on.And at times a review can be totally false.Thats the difference between your generation and mine.

"The Game"Evolution

11-25-2003, 05:16 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Most of the time those stores you mentioned have in the company' demo disk, which tends to feature only a selected demo stage or two of the game. While you can get a small impression of the game from playing a demo, you often cannot learn much about a game from a few minutes spent with a demo, or even just a few minutes spent with the full version.

Metroid Prime is the perfect example. You don't come close to experiencing the sheer scale and depth of this game for many hours. And Mario Sunshine, if you played it just long enough to see that you still hop and do the butt-stomp, you had no idea of all the different cool things you do in it. And Eternal Darkness. Try to get a true impression of that game in 30 minutes. Obviouisly you are mistaken when you say you've formed accurate observations of a game in 30 minutes, because what you've posted about games like Metroid and Mario Sunshine sound just plain ignorant and uniformed to anyone who has played them.

What you CAN do in 30 minutes is reinforce your own preconceived bias.</div>

I'm sorry your Gamestop doesnt let you play the real games but mine does.Besides some people sees things differently than others do.Plus some people catch things faster than others do.I guess you and Slade are the kind of people thats a little slow.Me? I catch things rather quickly.(Old school gamers like myself does that)

slade

11-25-2003, 10:43 AM

You make the effort for only games that interest you.I make the effort for games period.

Now that isn't what you said the first time. You said high profile game.

Relying on reviews alone isnt good enough.Sometimes you have to see for yourself if a game is as jaded as it was labled out to be.Sometimes a review can be dead on.And at times a review can be totally false.Thats the difference between your generation and mine.

So does that mean that you can't really spot the difference between a good game and a bad game in thirty minutes or less?

"The Game"Evolution

11-25-2003, 09:40 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Now that isn't what you said the first time. You said high profile game.

So does that mean that you can't really spot the difference between a good game and a bad game in thirty minutes or less?</div>

If a game truly impresses you within 30 minutes then its worth your time and money.If you arent feeling the game within 15 minutes then you indeed should pass on buying it and try renting it later.I've been doing that for years and 90% of the time I'm always right about them.

"The Game"Evolution

11-25-2003, 09:53 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

For some reason, I enjoy FFX-2 more than FFX. Perhaps, it's because I found Tidus's voice annoying...?</div>

Arent you too old to be playing with dolls? That avatar is so Barbie.Ewww.

Plus how in the blue hell can you like FF X-2 more than FF X? You must've gotten some bad pot from one of your College buddies to say something as ludicrous as that.

FF X was textbook Final Fantasy.Top notch all the way.FF X-2? They should've called it FF X-2:Full Throttle starring Yuna & The Pussie-cats.Changing clothes,getting rubdowns,singing songs together? WTF? Is this supposed to be Final Fantasy or Mary Kate and Ashley do Spira?

They can keep that crap away from me.Give me Tidus,Sauron,and the boys from FF X anyday over the "Chicks Nite Out"version of Final Fantasy.Thanks but no thanks.

slade

11-26-2003, 02:49 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

If a game truly impresses you within 30 minutes then its worth your time and money.If you arent feeling the game within 15 minutes then you indeed should pass on buying it and try renting it later.I've been doing that for years and 90% of the time I'm always right about them.</div>

So, now you're saying that you can tell a good game from a bad game in 15 - 30 minutes. That means I should listen to reviews.

Gadfly2317

11-26-2003, 05:01 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

I'm sorry your Gamestop doesnt let you play the real games but mine does.Besides some people sees things differently than others do.Plus some people catch things faster than others do.I guess you and Slade are the kind of people thats a little slow.Me? I catch things rather quickly.(Old school gamers like myself does that)</div>

"People thats a little slow?" "Some people SEES things differently?" Whatever it is that you "catch faster" it sure isn't the English language. How many years have you been using it?

No, you DON'T catch things quickly. I hoped to never have to bring this up again, but you're the guy who couldn't catch how to pick a lock in the Splinter Cell tutorial without help, even though the tutorial has pop-up text TELLING you how to do it. So we're supposed to believe you totally understand all the depth and nuance of a game like Metroid Prime from 30 minutes at EB Games? Fact is, WE ALL know that you didn't understand Metroid from all the uninformed, erroneous posts you made about it--I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about your facts. You blathering plain wrong facts about a game you've never played is obvious to all. Why embarrass yourself even trying to argue this point?

That would be like me dismissing Halo after 30 minutes. The first 30 minutes of Halo basically has you checking out your suit, and getting off the ship. If I were to form my impression of Halo based on that, all I'd say is that it was just a sci-fi game with typical FPS game-play mechanics. And I would sound like a yahoo, like you do about Metroid. Or do you think the first few minutes of Halo pretty much sum up the Halo experience?

God, I don't even know why I respond to you. Everybody knows you are full of crap, that you've been caught lying in many posts, that you've claimed to have played games when your posts prove otherwise, and that you are clearly sub-literate. It's redundant for me to point out what everyone already knows. Sorry. My bad.

"The Game"Evolution

11-26-2003, 07:40 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

"People thats a little slow?" "Some people SEES things differently?" Whatever it is that you "catch faster" it sure isn't the English language. How many years have you been using it?

No, you DON'T catch things quickly. I hoped to never have to bring this up again, but you're the guy who couldn't catch how to pick a lock in the Splinter Cell tutorial without help, even though the tutorial has pop-up text TELLING you how to do it. So we're supposed to believe you totally understand all the depth and nuance of a game like Metroid Prime from 30 minutes at EB Games? Fact is, WE ALL know that you didn't understand Metroid from all the uninformed, erroneous posts you made about it--I'm not talking about your opinion, I'm talking about your facts. You blathering plain wrong facts about a game you've never played is obvious to all. Why embarrass yourself even trying to argue this point?

That would be like me dismissing Halo after 30 minutes. The first 30 minutes of Halo basically has you checking out your suit, and getting off the ship. If I were to form my impression of Halo based on that, all I'd say is that it was just a sci-fi game with typical FPS game-play mechanics. And I would sound like a yahoo, like you do about Metroid. Or do you think the first few minutes of Halo pretty much sum up the Halo experience?

God, I don't even know why I respond to you. Everybody knows you are full of crap, that you've been caught lying in many posts, that you've claimed to have played games when your posts prove otherwise, and that you are clearly sub-literate. It's redundant for me to point out what everyone already knows. Sorry. My bad.</div>

I'm full of crap? Okay Gadfly lets talk about videogames in depth then.No doubt you're probably between the ages of 19-24.Okay lets begin:

Yes I had problems with learning how to pick the lock during the tutorial of Splinter Cell.And your point is? Is that all you got to throw in my face lad? LOL! ITs getting old.

That was the first time I've ever played a game that actually had you go through the real motions of actually picking one.Most games simply has you point and aim and poof the lock is opened with a lockpick.

Even the best of gamers can get caught off guard sometimes.Besides how many of you out there even bought Spliner Cell? I bet you havent.

All I ever heard was people like you and Slade talk about how Metal Gear Solid 2 is so much better than Splinter Cell is.LOL! And we both know thats a joke.Most of you couldnt even get through half of this game without a Stategy guide.Splinter Cell is the real deal compared to MGS2.SC IS THE stealth game to beat.

Not to mention SC was truly a challenge.The PS2 and the GC's versions were so watered down it was a disgrace to really play compared to the Xbox's version.

I believe that Splinter Cell is way too tough for you wimps.Now on to talking about Metroid.I played Metroid back in the late 80's when it first came to the NES.I fell in love with the game.When I ended Metroid I felt like I had been through one hell of a challenge.The kind of feeling most old schoolers like myself dont get often these days.

From there it was the SNES version.From there a console version Metroid wasnt seen or heard from again until the GC's version.(excluding the GB's versions) To me this was not Metroid.To some it was.From the little bit that I played no doubt it was a good game.But to alot of old Metroid vets like myself this wasnt Metroid.

Nor did I consider this game anywhere close to what Halo brought to the FPS genre.The first time I seen and played Halo I was in heaven after 15 minutes.I knew then I had to have this game.From there I bought an Xbox.

A game like Halo to PC gamers is nothing new.But to console gamers this game truly raised the bar for the FPS genre.And so far the Xbox is the only console that takes the FPS genre to bigger and better places over the GC and the PS2.Bottom line.

I dont lie about the games I play.Why should I do what guys like you and Slade do? I dont need to lie about it.Guys like you just dont like when I tell the truth about most things.Nobody has time to sit here and lie about their game experiences.

Kids like you do that.I dont have time for such nonsense.And your attitude needs an adjustment as well youngster.So you dont like me Gadfly? Thats your problem.I dont have anything against you.You're just young and think you know everything.But you dont.

We are all gamers here.Some of us simply sees things differently than others.You need to check that attitude fast.

Accept the fact that everyone isnt as gullable as you are when it comes to being impressed with something.(This goes for some others too)For us old schoolers we always lay out the welcome mat for a challenge.Your generation IMO is a joke when compared to the NES/SNES/Genesis era at times.

Gadfly2317

11-26-2003, 09:28 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

I'm full of crap? Okay Gadfly lets talk about videogames in depth then.No doubt you're probably between the ages of 19-24.Okay lets begin:

Yes I had problems with learning how to pick the lock during the tutorial of Splinter Cell.And your point is? Is that all you got to throw in my face lad? LOL! ITs getting old.

That was the first time I've ever played a game that actually had you go through the real motions of actually picking one.Most games simply has you point and aim and poof the lock is opened with a lockpick.

Even the best of gamers can get caught off guard sometimes.Besides how many of you out there even bought Spliner Cell? I bet you havent.

All I ever heard was people like you and Slade talk about how Metal Gear Solid 2 is so much better than Splinter Cell is.LOL! And we both know thats a joke.Most of you couldnt even get through half of this game without a Stategy guide.Splinter Cell is the real deal compared to MGS2.SC IS THE stealth game to beat.

Not to mention SC was truly a challenge.The PS2 and the GC's versions were so watered down it was a disgrace to really play compared to the Xbox's version.

I believe that Splinter Cell is way too tough for you wimps.Now on to talking about Metroid.I played Metroid back in the late 80's when it first came to the NES.I fell in love with the game.When I ended Metroid I felt like I had been through one hell of a challenge.The kind of feeling most old schoolers like myself dont get often these days.

From there it was the SNES version.From there a console version Metroid wasnt seen or heard from again until the GC's version.(excluding the GB's versions) To me this was not Metroid.To some it was.From the little bit that I played no doubt it was a good game.But to alot of old Metroid vets like myself this wasnt Metroid.

Nor did I consider this game anywhere close to what Halo brought to the FPS genre.The first time I seen and played Halo I was in heaven after 15 minutes.I knew then I had to have this game.From there I bought an Xbox.

A game like Halo to PC gamers is nothing new.But to console gamers this game truly raised the bar for the FPS genre.And so far the Xbox is the only console that takes the FPS genre to bigger and better places over the GC and the PS2.Bottom line.

I dont lie about the games I play.Why should I do what guys like you and Slade do? I dont need to lie about it.Guys like you just dont like when I tell the truth about most things.Nobody has time to sit here and lie about their game experiences.

Kids like you do that.I dont have time for such nonsense.And your attitude needs an adjustment as well youngster.So you dont like me Gadfly? Thats your problem.I dont have anything against you.You're just young and think you know everything.But you dont.

We are all gamers here.Some of us simply sees things differently than others.You need to check that attitude fast.

Accept the fact that everyone isnt as gullable as you are when it comes to being impressed with something.(This goes for some others too)For us old schoolers we always lay out the welcome mat for a challenge.Your generation IMO is a joke when compared to the NES/SNES/Genesis era at times.</div>

Look, I know you read all my posts because you respond to all of them. So why are you coming up with this goofy "lad" and "kid" stuff? I don't throw out my age or gaming experience to try to "prove" I know more about gaming. That's a cop-out, and that's what you just did. You copped out and showed that you change the topic when someone's backed you into a corner--something you are notorious for. This time you've tried to change the topic to how much of an old-school gamer you are.

While I think it is tacky and stupid to brag about how long you've been gaming to try to prove some stupid "point", in the course of talking about games I have mentioned more than once that I play games with my kids, that my first console was a Magnavox Oddysey and then an Atari, and that I played table top Pong when it was the cutting edge of gaming technology. And you know this, so you calling me a 19 year old lad is pretty funny. I may not be as ancient as Mass, but I've played games as long as commercial video games have existed. What, you're gonna tell us about all the games you played before there was Pong and Space Invaders?

So, to add just one more item to the long list of Systems Wars "crimes" I indicted you with, thanks for reminding me of the other thing you always do around here: change the topic when you are losing a debate.

"The Game"Evolution

11-27-2003, 12:17 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Look, I know you read all my posts because you respond to all of them. So why are you coming up with this goofy "lad" and "kid" stuff? I don't throw out my age or gaming experience to try to "prove" I know more about gaming. That's a cop-out, and that's what you just did. You copped out and showed that you change the topic when someone's backed you into a corner--something you are notorious for. This time you've tried to change the topic to how much of an old-school gamer you are.

While I think it is tacky and stupid to brag about how long you've been gaming to try to prove some stupid "point", in the course of talking about games I have mentioned more than once that I play games with my kids, that my first console was a Magnavox Oddysey and then an Atari, and that I played table top Pong when it was the cutting edge of gaming technology. And you know this, so you calling me a 19 year old lad is pretty funny. I may not be as ancient as Mass, but I've played games as long as commercial video games have existed. What, you're gonna tell us about all the games you played before there was Pong and Space Invaders?

So, to add just one more item to the long list of Systems Wars "crimes" I indicted you with, thanks for reminding me of the other thing you always do around here: change the topic when you are losing a debate.</div>

I was losing a debate? I wasnt aware you brought an intellectual debate to the table.Hmmm.....So you want to debate on something huh? Well feel free.No flames,no namecalling,and only sticking to the threat thats mentioned.I am not falling into that petty little trap of yours garcon.Nice try though Gadfly.

Besides you werent the only one that owned an Odyssey 2 you know.Stop acting like such a brat sometimes and maybe we can actually have some civil videogame discussions Gadfly.

GameLegend

11-29-2003, 01:40 PM

I guess I should probably point out the obvious.

"The Game "Evolution" " Its pretty obvious that you are not really responding to Gadfly2317 arguments and yes you did "cop out." Try to be more mature about your arguments than ridiculing Gadfly by calling him a "brat," "Kid" and what not. With those kinds of remarks I am surprised Gadfly isn?t calling u an old geezer or an old fart. It doesn?t matter how much experience you have. Saying that you played videogames longer than he has, only to prove how much more you know than Gadfly. That?s just stupid. I am going to tell u right off the bat that i am 18 years old, but that doesn?t mean I don?t appreciate games.

The only thing u can prove by bragging to people how long you've been playing videogames is to really show appreciation. How you have been playing space invaders to now Halo. U can clearly see the transition of games and can truly appreciate them.

In short, Gadfly "won" this debate. Although this is my opinion, I feel that he was the only one between you two, to actually provide real convincing arguments. So it could be looked as a default win. If you totally disagree with me, list all your 'quality' arguments and his. Looking at that speaks for it self.

"The Game"Evolution

11-29-2003, 09:34 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">I guess I should probably point out the obvious.

"The Game "Evolution" " Its pretty obvious that you are not really responding to Gadfly2317 arguments and yes you did "cop out." Try to be more mature about your arguments than ridiculing Gadfly by calling him a "brat," "Kid" and what not. With those kinds of remarks I am surprised Gadfly isn?t calling u an old geezer or an old fart. It doesn?t matter how much experience you have. Saying that you played videogames longer than he has, only to prove how much more you know than Gadfly. That?s just stupid. I am going to tell u right off the bat that i am 18 years old, but that doesn?t mean I don?t appreciate games.

The only thing u can prove by bragging to people how long you've been playing videogames is to really show appreciation. How you have been playing space invaders to now Halo. U can clearly see the transition of games and can truly appreciate them.

In short, Gadfly "won" this debate. Although this is my opinion, I feel that he was the only one between you two, to actually provide real convincing arguments. So it could be looked as a default win. If you totally disagree with me, list all your 'quality' arguments and his. Looking at that speaks for it self.</div>

When Gadfly is ready to talk in depth about videogames I'm ready.Other than that IMO he acts like a little kid.His responses in my eyes proves that.But if you see it different then thats fine.I dont have to resort to namecalling and insults to get my point across.But the way that Gadfly and g@mer acts at times it makes me wonder if these guys are even legal to drink.LOL!

But like I said before I am an Old school gamer that loves videogames.I cant help it if someone that sees things differently doesnt like some of the things that I say.

First ammendment freedom of speech.

GameLegend

11-29-2003, 11:38 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

First ammendment freedom of speech.</div>

:)

Hey, what is systems wars for? When i read over my comment it looked kinda harsh. So i take back any mean things i have said about u. Sometimes i get caught up in the moment and respond to things really quickly.

Love and peace

Gadfly2317

11-30-2003, 06:14 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

:)

Hey, what is systems wars for? When i read over my comment it looked kinda harsh. So i take back any mean things i have said about u. Sometimes i get caught up in the moment and respond to things really quickly.

Love and peace</div>

Systems War is war. Harsh comments are fine if they are correct. Surrender nothing. Take nothing back. And please, do not declare peace in a time of war. You were right in everything you said.

Evolution copped out. The discussion started out with me pointing out why you can't really know a game from just 30 minutes of playing it a store kiosk (as "evolution" claims he can do.). Sure, you might pick up a racing game, and in 30 minutes get impressions like that the graphics are bad, or the control is lousy. You might hate all turned based RPG games, and in a few minutes at a kiosk, you might find out that a game is turned based. Maybe you personally hate cartoons, and in 10 seconds you can see that Zelda Windwaker is cel-shaded. But it still doesn't tell you anything about the depths of the game itself. You can confirm your own opinions and biases quickly, but you can't know that much about today's deep, complex multi-faceted games in just a few minutes. This isn't like the "old-school" days when the first ten seconds of space invaders was the same thing you were going to do for as long as you played.

But what we've talked about "Evolution" doing in the past is making these huge generalizations and false statements about games that he hasn't really played--games that are almost universally hailed as great, like Metroid Prime or Zelda: Windwaker. We are not talking about his "opinion" we are talking about some concrete facts.

He just changed the topic and called me a kid, bragged about how old school he is, and said I'm not up to talking about games instead of respond to the ONE analogy I put to him, which was COULD SOMEONE FORM AN ACCURATE IMPRESSION OF HALO IN 30 MINUTES AT A KIOSK? He avoided this because he knows you could not, and he's actually criticized Halo critics of this before.

If you only played Halo for 30 minutes at a kiosk, you would NOT know (or at least have experienced) that there is vehicle based combat. You would not have a sense of the story. You would not have used all the weapons, seen how complex the enemies AI gets later, or know whether or not the puzzles were cool. In the first thirty minutes, ALL you experience is a snippet of mediocre voice acting and some typical FPS action in some very unimaginative and repetitive corridors. If you only saw the first 30 minutes of Halo, you might like it, or you might go "oh, I hate FPS style games" but you wouldn't know squat about the game.

The reason I used Halo is because it's a game I know Evolution has played. I pointed out these facts about Halo (am I not discussing a game here) and asked if he really thinks someone could make authoritative statements about Halo from just 30 minutes--or even an hour of play? He can't answer this because it nailed his line of BS, so he has to talk about how old he is.

And the point illustrated? That Evolution doesn't have any idea what he's talking about in regard to Nintendo games because he's only ever played these award winning games for a few minutes at a kiosk. The other point illustrated in the course of our "discussion" is that he's a complete imbecile who posts gibberish here. He might call this a "personal attack." I call it an unavoidable conclusion based on the evidence.

"The Game"Evolution

11-30-2003, 10:56 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Systems War is war. Harsh comments are fine if they are correct. Surrender nothing. Take nothing back. And please, do not declare peace in a time of war. You were right in everything you said.

Evolution copped out. The discussion started out with me pointing out why you can't really know a game from just 30 minutes of playing it a store kiosk (as "evolution" claims he can do.). Sure, you might pick up a racing game, and in 30 minutes get impressions like that the graphics are bad, or the control is lousy. You might hate all turned based RPG games, and in a few minutes at a kiosk, you might find out that a game is turned based. Maybe you personally hate cartoons, and in 10 seconds you can see that Zelda Windwaker is cel-shaded. But it still doesn't tell you anything about the depths of the game itself. You can confirm your own opinions and biases quickly, but you can't know that much about today's deep, complex multi-faceted games in just a few minutes. This isn't like the "old-school" days when the first ten seconds of space invaders was the same thing you were going to do for as long as you played.

But what we've talked about "Evolution" doing in the past is making these huge generalizations and false statements about games that he hasn't really played--games that are almost universally hailed as great, like Metroid Prime or Zelda: Windwaker. We are not talking about his "opinion" we are talking about some concrete facts.

He just changed the topic and called me a kid, bragged about how old school he is, and said I'm not up to talking about games instead of respond to the ONE analogy I put to him, which was COULD SOMEONE FORM AN ACCURATE IMPRESSION OF HALO IN 30 MINUTES AT A KIOSK? He avoided this because he knows you could not, and he's actually criticized Halo critics of this before.

If you only played Halo for 30 minutes at a kiosk, you would NOT know (or at least have experienced) that there is vehicle based combat. You would not have a sense of the story. You would not have used all the weapons, seen how complex the enemies AI gets later, or know whether or not the puzzles were cool. In the first thirty minutes, ALL you experience is a snippet of mediocre voice acting and some typical FPS action in some very unimaginative and repetitive corridors. If you only saw the first 30 minutes of Halo, you might like it, or you might go "oh, I hate FPS style games" but you wouldn't know squat about the game.

The reason I used Halo is because it's a game I know Evolution has played. I pointed out these facts about Halo (am I not discussing a game here) and asked if he really thinks someone could make authoritative statements about Halo from just 30 minutes--or even an hour of play? He can't answer this because it nailed his line of BS, so he has to talk about how old he is.

And the point illustrated? That Evolution doesn't have any idea what he's talking about in regard to Nintendo games because he's only ever played these award winning games for a few minutes at a kiosk. The other point illustrated in the course of our "discussion" is that he's a complete imbecile who posts gibberish here. He might call this a "personal attack." I call it an unavoidable conclusion based on the evidence.</div>

You claimed that you used to own an Odyssey 2 and a NES right? Okay.Let me ask you a couple of questions.

1.What was your favorite Odyssey 2 game?

2.What do you consider was three of the hardest games on the NES?

You give me your answers and I'll give you my answers.No insults,no flames,and no name calling.Just one game peacefully talking to another gamer.Okay Gadfly?

Gadfly2317

12-01-2003, 05:07 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

You claimed that you used to own an Odyssey 2 and a NES right? Okay.Let me ask you a couple of questions.

1.What was your favorite Odyssey 2 game?

2.What do you consider was three of the hardest games on the NES?

You give me your answers and I'll give you my answers.No insults,no flames,and no name calling.Just one game peacefully talking to another gamer.Okay Gadfly?</div>

This just seems like more topic changing. Why not just answer the question I put to you? Look, I'll just let you off the hook. You lost the last debate fair and square. You could NOT know much about what Halo was really like from 30 minutes at a kiosk. If you tried to talk about it authoritatively you'd sound silly. Just like you sound when you talk about Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, and Zelda WW. So you don't need to answer any more to try and "prove" you initial silly bragging.

New topic: Your questions. If you want me to "prove" that I'm old enough to have owned and played those systems. . . I could just be doing a google search for Oddysey games, and "ten hardest NES games." But whatever.

1.) I remember the names of very few of the Oddysey II games I owned because they were all knock off's of other games. I remember Pick Axe Pete, and it was a Donkey Kong knock off. I liked the Asteroids knock-off game a lot, but it looked more like shooting brightly colored bits of cereal than it did asteroids. One of the last games I bought was "Lords" something, it was a Galaga knock off, and it was one of the first games to use the voice modulator expansion that you could plug into yoru system. It was also one of the last, as alas, right after I bought the voice expansion kit, Magnavox pulled the plug. My favorite game, though, was Othello, which is a very old Chinese (I think) board game. I'm a board game fanatic, and this allowed me as a young kid to play a classic strategy board game when parents and siblings where busy doing other stuff.

On NES, I have no answer. I was finishing High school/entering college at that time, and was into partying and chasing women. The only gaming I did was at arcades. I did have an NES for awhile in my early college days before getting an SNES, but I don't know if I ever did play anything people considered hard, like Ghosts n Goblins. I played some baseball game a lot where you where robots with hit points, the Mario games, football, Metroid, lots of Duck Hunt, some RPG's I don't remember. Frankly, I wasn't gaming that heavily during that time period. Like I said, lots of womanizing and mind altering chemicals, and occasionally, studying.

Richard Hobbes

12-01-2003, 06:06 AM

TGR,

(I'm going to stay out of the flame war between you, Slade, and Gadfly.)

One thing that is interesting about Game Informer's scores is just how many first class PS2 games there are. Sony's platforms have traditionaly featured quantity over quality, but the PS2 seems to be taking the year out in style. There are so many first class games on the system that it is hard not to find something to like. Apart from the fact that I was a PS2 owner before buying the other systems, I think the reason I still play the PS2 so much is (as always) its wide variety of games. Game Informers' current review scores demonstrate this quite nicely.

RH.

Tappy_Tibbons

12-01-2003, 09:11 AM

The PS2 fanboys are foaming at the mouth...

It's funny how the EGM scores thread was pretty much ignored since Xbox RAPED PS2 and GC. It's also funny how everyone knows that EGM is THE video game mag and GI is nothing but a mag driven by nothing but sales from the store chain that owns it.

"The Game"Evolution

12-01-2003, 10:53 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

This just seems like more topic changing. Why not just answer the question I put to you? Look, I'll just let you off the hook. You lost the last debate fair and square. You could NOT know much about what Halo was really like from 30 minutes at a kiosk. If you tried to talk about it authoritatively you'd sound silly. Just like you sound when you talk about Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, and Zelda WW. So you don't need to answer any more to try and "prove" you initial silly bragging.

New topic: Your questions. If you want me to "prove" that I'm old enough to have owned and played those systems. . . I could just be doing a google search for Oddysey games, and "ten hardest NES games." But whatever.

1.) I remember the names of very few of the Oddysey II games I owned because they were all knock off's of other games. I remember Pick Axe Pete, and it was a Donkey Kong knock off. I liked the Asteroids knock-off game a lot, but it looked more like shooting brightly colored bits of cereal than it did asteroids. One of the last games I bought was "Lords" something, it was a Galaga knock off, and it was one of the first games to use the voice modulator expansion that you could plug into yoru system. It was also one of the last, as alas, right after I bought the voice expansion kit, Magnavox pulled the plug. My favorite game, though, was Othello, which is a very old Chinese (I think) board game. I'm a board game fanatic, and this allowed me as a young kid to play a classic strategy board game when parents and siblings where busy doing other stuff.

On NES, I have no answer. I was finishing High school/entering college at that time, and was into partying and chasing women. The only gaming I did was at arcades. I did have an NES for awhile in my early college days before getting an SNES, but I don't know if I ever did play anything people considered hard, like Ghosts n Goblins. I played some baseball game a lot where you where robots with hit points, the Mario games, football, Metroid, lots of Duck Hunt, some RPG's I don't remember. Frankly, I wasn't gaming that heavily during that time period. Like I said, lots of womanizing and mind altering chemicals, and occasionally, studying.</div>

Any true gamer can tell the potential greatness of a game within a short period of time.Thats a fact.With others at times it takes a little longer to realize this.Some gamers doesnt know how to keep an open mind before laying judgement on a game.They let game reviews totally validate what they think or believe.

Yes back in the day I loved my Odyssey 2.Games like Pick axe pete,Showdown at 2081 A.D.,Quest For The Rings,War Of Nerves,slalom,Speedway,Crypto-Logic;etc.That was my first console.

Yes,sometimes you have to play actually play a game before you can start to understand it.Yes I've played Super Mario Sunshine & Zelda on the GC.Both games were fun to play.Just like playing the same kind of games on the N64.I never said either game sucked did I? Nope.

I said that both games looks and plays great,but it still seems the same games that we've seen and played before on the N64 and the other Nintendo consoles before it.Thats all.Guys like you dont like when other gamers say those words:Been there,done that.But its true.

I too was a die-hard arcade gamer as well as a die-hard console gamer.It was indeed my main hobby next to comic books.

I see you admit that you really didnt play alot of NES games back in the day.Thats my point in a nutshell.You dont have a clue what real HARD games are.Games like Ikari Warriors,Gradius,Mike Tyson's Punch Out,Kid Icurus,Ghost N'Goblins,Mega Man,Rygar,Castlevania,Metal Gear,Gradius;etc. Those games indeed were twice as tough as some of the games are today.You at least played the original Metroid.The SNES had a nice handful of tough titles.Games like Contra III:The Alien Wars,Super Metroid,Actraiser,Super Ghouls N'Ghosts,The Star Wars trilogy, and Battletoads.The SNES was another fine console with great challenges from all genres.

You admitted that you werent heavily into gaming back then like you are now.I've been deep into gaming ever since I was a kid.I never stopped.I'm not saying that you dont know what you are talking about to a certain degree.

But when it comes to talking about whats double tough when we are on the topic of games I would easily state that alot of the games of yesterday was ten times harder than the games of today could ever be.

I am an old school gamer.You are more of a game of this generation.And there is nothing wrong with either one.We just both have different points of view.

We truly dont have to be at each others throats 24/7 Gadfly.If we are both true gamers at heart then why cant we simply talking passionately about the games and consoles we love without resorting to namecalling and flaming all the time? Think about it.

Richard Hobbes

12-01-2003, 10:59 AM

Tappy,

--- The PS2 fanboys are foaming at the mouth...

That's odd... I don't see any PS2 fanboys (or fangirls) in this post.

RH.

GameLegend

12-01-2003, 04:14 PM

I dont know Richard Hobbes, i m sure u are a respected member in the VGR community, but everytime i see u talking, i look at the pic beside u and think u as a talking ass. LoL i can never take you seriously!

Gadfly2317

12-01-2003, 05:24 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Any true gamer can tell the potential greatness of a game within a short period of time.Thats a fact.With others at times it takes a little longer to realize this.Some gamers doesnt know how to keep an open mind before laying judgement on a game.They let game reviews totally validate what they think or believe.

Yes back in the day I loved my Odyssey 2.Games like Pick axe pete,Showdown at 2081 A.D.,Quest For The Rings,War Of Nerves,slalom,Speedway,Crypto-Logic;etc.That was my first console.

Yes,sometimes you have to play actually play a game before you can start to understand it.Yes I've played Super Mario Sunshine & Zelda on the GC.Both games were fun to play.Just like playing the same kind of games on the N64.I never said either game sucked did I? Nope.

I said that both games looks and plays great,but it still seems the same games that we've seen and played before on the N64 and the other Nintendo consoles before it.Thats all.Guys like you dont like when other gamers say those words:Been there,done that.But its true.

I too was a die-hard arcade gamer as well as a die-hard console gamer.It was indeed my main hobby next to comic books.

I see you admit that you really didnt play alot of NES games back in the day.Thats my point in a nutshell.You dont have a clue what real HARD games are.Games like Ikari Warriors,Gradius,Mike Tyson's Punch Out,Kid Icurus,Ghost N'Goblins,Mega Man,Rygar,Castlevania,Metal Gear,Gradius;etc. Those games indeed were twice as tough as some of the games are today.You at least played the original Metroid.The SNES had a nice handful of tough titles.Games like Contra III:The Alien Wars,Super Metroid,Actraiser,Super Ghouls N'Ghosts,The Star Wars trilogy, and Battletoads.The SNES was another fine console with great challenges from all genres.

You admitted that you werent heavily into gaming back then like you are now.I've been deep into gaming ever since I was a kid.I never stopped.I'm not saying that you dont know what you are talking about to a certain degree.

But when it comes to talking about whats double tough when we are on the topic of games I would easily state that alot of the games of yesterday was ten times harder than the games of today could ever be.

I am an old school gamer.You are more of a game of this generation.And there is nothing wrong with either one.We just both have different points of view.

We truly dont have to be at each others throats 24/7 Gadfly.If we are both true gamers at heart then why cant we simply talking passionately about the games and consoles we love without resorting to namecalling and flaming all the time? Think about it.</div>

ADD, aren't we? I'll play along and roll with the newly changed topic. The last one is boring and done with and you never did and never will respond to any actual points, so lets move on to "old hard games."

I'm not sure why you'd call me a gamer of "this generation" who doesn't know what a hard game is when I already mentioned I've gamed since table-top pong hit the scene. True, gaming is not the only thing I've done with my life, and I've had less heavy periods of gaming. NES era was one, though I still gamed through that era and gamed on the NES. Of the "hard" games you mentioned I remember playing Gradius,Mike Tyson's Punch Out,Mega Man, and Castlevania. I played all the SNES games you mentioned (except battletoads); Act Raiser and Contra: Alien Wars being my favorites. Contra was one of the best co-op gaming experience I've ever had.

One of the Oddysey II games you mentioned was one I really liked, too. Slalom. Much harder than SSX Tricky or 1080. And here's what I'm getting at: I think the old games that were hard were often hard for the wrong reason. Limits of technology. The pixels were large, the control was clunky and unresponsive by todays standards. The old games, many, had no save system and were still rooted in arcade style play, which was all about getting you to die so you'd put in more quarters. Today's games, with their long immersive experiences and save-anywhere game play may not be as hard, but in many cases they are richer experiences. Older gamers were more addictive, like gambling, the whole "I know I can get just a little further (or a little higher score) this time."

And so when a game like Ikaruga comes along, I can recognize, appreciate and enjoy a hard game. Reminds me of something like Gradius, yet graphically brilliant and controls as smooth as butter. While I really like Panzer Dragoon, it is simply not the addictive, simple, blistering-hard game that Ikaruga is. Or even F-Zero for that matter.

The two games that always kicked my ass were Defender and Missile Command. I especially liked missile command, but suffice it to say, we should all be glad the fate of the earth is not in my hands.

And that's enough crusty old-timer reminiscing. It just reminded me that I forgot the Midway collection was supposed to come out this week or last. Damn!! Gotta go.

Richard Hobbes

12-01-2003, 05:40 PM

GameLegend,

--- I don't know Richard Hobbes, I m sure u are a respected
--- member in the VGR community, but every time I see u
--- talking, I look at the pic beside u and think u as a talking
--- ass. LOL I can never take you seriously!

I've taken quite a bit of flack from others around here because of my avatar. The story behind the selection of my avatar is a simple one: my wife and daughter picked it because they thought it was funny. Therefore the avatar stays. You'll have to judge my posts by their contents and not by their cover.

On a different topic, you seem fairly new here. Welcome to System Wars.

RH.

P.S. And by the way, if you ask anyone around here they'll more than happily tell you that it's true... I *am* an ass.

Gadfly2317

12-01-2003, 05:47 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">GameLegend,

--- I don't know Richard Hobbes, I m sure u are a respected
--- member in the VGR community, but every time I see u
--- talking, I look at the pic beside u and think u as a talking
--- ass. LOL I can never take you seriously!

I've taken quite a bit of flack from others around here because of my avatar. The story behind the selection of my avatar is a simple one: my wife and daughter picked it because they thought it was funny. Therefore the avatar stays. You'll have to judge my posts by their contents and not by their cover.

On a different topic, you seem fairly new here. Welcome to System Wars.

RH.

P.S. And by the way, if you ask anyone around here they'll more than happily tell you that it's true... I *am* an ass.</div>

Richard, thanks for reminding us all of our manners. Game Legend even praised one of my posts and I forgot to welcome him to sytems wars!!! God, am I rude. We can only pray he will will stick around and become a permanent voice.

Once again, Richard--thanks--and that's why you are the classy member here (even if we can't help but imagine you with an ass for a face :D )