What fighting game are you most looking forward to playing?

[aj142]

1.******* Soul Calibur II
2.******* D.O.A. Online
3.******* Onimusha Blade Warriors
4.******* Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution

I know VF4 is out now, but it's still relatively new. Any others not listed here?

[slade]

My most anticipated title on that list is Soul Calibur 2. I got VF4 Evo this month and apart from casual play, haven't really dove into it yet. I'm also looking forward to Onimusha Blade Warriors. Hopefully, Capcom can come up with a great weapon fighter in this game. The Onimusha engine does have a strong fighter base.

On the 2d side, Guilty Gear DX has replaced SNK vs. Capcom on my favorites list.

[Tracer1]

I'm still patiently (grrrr) waiting for the new Street Fighter game... Street Fighter EX3's AI sucks and I'm disappointed that Capcom doesn't port the Street Fighter III series in the Playstation2 console.

[aj142]

<div class=\"smallfont\">My most anticipated title on that list is Soul Calibur 2. </div>

Me too (only a few more days!!!---><a href="http://www.soulcalibur2.com/">

<IMG height=480 src="http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/soulCaliburXbox11152003_03.jpg" width=640>
<IMG height=280 src="http://ps2media.ign.com/ps2/image/sc2_0115_1112.jpg" width=440>
<IMG height=280 src="http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/souldcalibur2gc_11503_9.jpg" width=440>

</a>

[slade]

Actually, from what I've read, Namco's shipped the game to retailers today. Some are selling it now while the store I preorderd from, either didn't get it or is holding it till tomorrow.

[aj142]

Yes, it was shipped out already, but I have to wait until this weekend to get my copy - and that's assuming the stores don't run out! Does anybody here have it already??

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I'm still patiently (grrrr) waiting for the new Street Fighter game... Street Fighter EX3's AI sucks and I'm disappointed that Capcom doesn't port the Street Fighter III series in the Playstation2 console.</div>

Street fighter 3 CAN'T be done on PS2.

Remember Sony's attempts to escuse their oversight in (uncompressing) video Ram, the bottom line is that it means the system couldn't even hold a halfway descent conversion of MVC2. Never mind that it hasn't got a chance in hell of playing SF3, the sheer AMOUNT of graphics that have to be held in RAM pushed just beyond the 8megs of compressable VRAM the Dreamcast has (make no mistake, there is a very slight reduction in sprite resolution in the Dreamcast version).

On the other hand, there's no real reason it couldn't be happily done on the Xbox or Gamecube. Hell, with the insane amount of Bus bandwidth and VRAM on the Cube (compressed it holds 80 megs of unrastered textures) it's entirely possible for that version to be in high res with all animation intact.

[slade]

I still can't believe that people still think this. PS2 did perfect versions of GGX and GGX2. The ports of CvS2, which looked bad on all three systems, and MvC2 were obviously rushed.

[aj142]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Street fighter 3 CAN'T be done on PS2.

Remember Sony's attempts to escuse their oversight in (uncompressing) video Ram, the bottom line is that it means the system couldn't even hold a halfway descent conversion of MVC2. Never mind that it hasn't got a chance in hell of playing SF3, the sheer AMOUNT of graphics that have to be held in RAM pushed just beyond the 8megs of compressable VRAM the Dreamcast has (make no mistake, there is a very slight reduction in sprite resolution in the Dreamcast version).

On the other hand, there's no real reason it couldn't be happily done on the Xbox or Gamecube. Hell, with the insane amount of Bus bandwidth and VRAM on the Cube (compressed it holds 80 megs of unrastered textures) it's entirely possible for that version to be in high res with all animation intact.</div>


Uh.... someone's been doing their homework! :D Without being as technically versed, I can simply state that of the three consoles, the PS2 has been the least impressive to me. The !@#$ thing won't even read a cleaning disc anymore, let alone a DVD movie or game. I've always thought games looked and played more smoothly on the Xbox and in some cases on GC. The only exception to this would be a few games such as GTA 3 and Vice City, The Getaway, etc.

So, nobody answered my question about if you have Soul Calibur 2 yet. It came out like yesterday or the day before.

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I still can't believe that people still think this. PS2 did perfect versions of GGX and GGX2. The ports of CvS2, which looked bad on all three systems, and MvC2 were obviously rushed.</div>

I shouldn't even have to point this out but, in high res or not, GGx and GGx2 both look like arse, the characters have about three frames for their neutral stance, three for walking, one for dashing, and don't get me started on the supers. Hell, pretty much all the background animation is hardware effects.

This is not a question of ability to shift 2d graphics about, the PS2 does that perfectly fine, it just can't hold all the frames that permeate SF3 and give it that wonderful flowing feeling. take out all the animation and it'll just seem strange, look at Hugo in SNK vs Capcom to see what I mean.

[slade]

And yet, PS2 has handled SNK fighters just fine. Ya know, games like KOF's which boasts an impressive level of character animation as well. There's a compilation of KOF's 2k and 2k1 coming out soon. Check it out and let me know why PS2 can't handle it.

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\">And yet, PS2 has handled SNK fighters just fine. Ya know, games like KOF's which boasts an impressive level of character animation as well. There's a compilation of KOF's 2k and 2k1 coming out soon. Check it out and let me know why PS2 can't handle it.</div>

While it's fair to say that the animations in Kof games are smooth enough (still not as smooth though), there arn't nearly as many of them per character as in SF3, not counting that there are less basic and context sensitive moves in there, there is far less incidental animation as well.

Then, there are the backgrounds which don't scroll up for one, and tend to have little going on in them as well(besides some duplicated bits).

Perhaps most importantly, there are less BIG things to be animated, impacts and specials (and definately supers) tend to be MASSIVE in SF3, and all sprite based (MVC2's weird hardware effects look good but seem out of place). Never mind Hugo, look at him, he touches the lifebars with his head.

To give you some context on just how big we're talking here, just the patterns for one character takes up almost two times more space than Super turbo did in it's ENTIRETY. Never mind the other guy, the background, the sound, the code and the colision boxes (which are aparently matched to each frame by the pixel), SF3 is one bloody big game.

You know what though, I'll give and say the Ps2 CAN do it, it would just suck, just like every version on SF on a sony console.

[slade]

Backgrounds are animated in 3d and shouldn't be a problem for PS2. You know what though, I'll give and say the Ps2 CAN do it, it would just suck, just like every version on SF on a sony console.I can agree up till the PSX but PS2 is a whole other animal. See, Saturn was able to pull off arcade perfect conversions of Capcom's SF games using only 4 megs of V-ram and PS2 has the same amount of V-ram. Technically, barring MvC2 which I think is a shoddy port, it should be possible to do these games on PS2.Regarding supers, I can think of just three or four off the top of my head that may be big like Oro's two ex super special's, Gill's rainbow super and Akuma's Kongoukokuretsuzan. Otherwise, most of the rest are basic enough and easily comparable to some of the specials in the KOF's games. Neither compare to the flashiness of GGX2 though. http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0514/sammy/guiltygearx2_screen009.jpgBut then again, GGX2 doesn't have the animation of either game. Hopefully, SNK will bite the bullet and put Garou Mark of the Wolves on PS2 and prove me right. That's the only game, I think, that compares with the overall quality of SF3.

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\">can agree up till the PSX but PS2 is a whole other animal. See, Saturn was able to pull off arcade perfect conversions of Capcom's SF games using only 4 megs of V-ram and PS2 has the same amount of V-ram. .</div>

WHAT?!

Can I just ask if you even know what Vram is and how it works. It's a finite thing, the set amount of 2D data that can be stored and instantly recalled by the system for display. The Saturn (god bless it) never tried to do SF3 at any point, the best it ever did was Vampire Savior which was head and shoulders over any other system 2 game, but couldn't hold a candle to SF3.

The overall context of this is that the PS2 could probably do all capcoms old games without a hitch, the basic rule being to not go overboard, I could even see WAR-ZARD getting on the PS2 and these games still play perfectly fine today.

What I'm trying to say is that outside a N64 style expansion pack, SF3 is and always will be out of reach. Sony owners have a history of harping on and on until these games are put on their machine with astounding inferiority. Forget that, I think that if they want SF3 they can buy a different machine and demand it go on that.

PS. 3D backgrounds still need textures.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Street fighter 3 CAN'T be done on PS2.

Remember Sony's attempts to escuse their oversight in (uncompressing) video Ram, the bottom line is that it means the system couldn't even hold a halfway descent conversion of MVC2. Never mind that it hasn't got a chance in hell of playing SF3, the sheer AMOUNT of graphics that have to be held in RAM pushed just beyond the 8megs of compressable VRAM the Dreamcast has (make no mistake, there is a very slight reduction in sprite resolution in the Dreamcast version).

On the other hand, there's no real reason it couldn't be happily done on the Xbox or Gamecube. Hell, with the insane amount of Bus bandwidth and VRAM on the Cube (compressed it holds 80 megs of unrastered textures) it's entirely possible for that version to be in high res with all animation intact.</div>

I think that is somewhat debatable. CvS2 was done on PS2 without any problems, despite what so many people said in the past. I have played MvC2 on my PS2 since the day I bought it and I really don't see anything wrong other than the sound is weird sometimes. Since MvC2's soundtrack kinda sucks, that a no biggie for me. Some people say there is an issue with timing but I threw that out of the window after my friend Dennis from local arcade did the infinite on me with Magneto. Here is what I think. I know animation is better with 3s which means more frames. However, I don't recall ever seeing slowdowns in 3s on DC. Yet, it happens a lot with MvC2. So, logically, PS2 which already has done MvC2 shouldn't have any real serious problem to do 3s.

What do you think?

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Backgrounds are animated in 3d and shouldn't be a problem for PS2.I can agree up till the PSX but PS2 is a whole other animal. See, Saturn was able to pull off arcade perfect conversions of Capcom's SF games using only 4 megs of V-ram and PS2 has the same amount of V-ram. Technically, barring MvC2 which I think is a shoddy port, it should be possible to do these games on PS2.Regarding supers, I can think of just three or four off the top of my head that may be big like Oro's two ex super special's, Gill's rainbow super and Akuma's Kongoukokuretsuzan. Otherwise, most of the rest are basic enough and easily comparable to some of the specials in the KOF's games. Neither compare to the flashiness of GGX2 though. http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0514/sammy/guiltygearx2_screen009.jpgBut then again, GGX2 doesn't have the animation of either game. Hopefully, SNK will bite the bullet and put Garou Mark of the Wolves on PS2 and prove me right. That's the only game, I think, that compares with the overall quality of SF3.</div>

I think PS2 is capable of doing 3s. But, we'll never know because the chance for Capcom of porting it anywhere is less than zero. However, Capcom can prove everyone wrong again by bring SF4, CvS3 or SFA4 to us next year....

[slade]

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding PS2 fans, Brendon.Anyways, I am talking in terms of what's possible on PS2 by citing games released for it. In my opinion, Ps2 has released various different games that show that it's possible for the machine to do 2d games. Explain to me how it can do a game with 40 plus characters who have moderate frames of animation and yet can't do a game with less then 20 characters who have a few more frames of animation. That's what it all comes down to in this argument. I don't see your point about the flashiness of the game because aside from a few moves in Third Strike, the rest is standard fare that can be seen in CvS2 as well. Hell, the standard KOF's game has moves that are just as flashy like Terry Power Geyser....... well, starting from KOF's 98 and onwards anyway.However, Capcom can prove everyone wrong again by bring SF4, CvS3 or SFA4 to us next year....I'm not holding my breath. I'm beginning to believe that Capcom is just about finished in the fighter market. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"> I'm not holding my breath. I'm beginning to believe that Capcom is just about finished in the fighter market. I'd love to be proven wrong though.</div>

I really doubt that Capcom is just going to leave the 2D market for good. Fighting genre overall is still going strong in Japan, why would they anyways?

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Explain to me how it can do a game with 40 plus characters who have moderate frames of animation and yet can't do a game with less then 20 characters who have a few more frames of animation. .</div>

Look, a DVD disc holds 4 gigs of data, that means that it holds 1000 times more data than the PS2 can hold in (specifically) video Ram.

Every time your system has to load that means it's removing old data and adding new, with a 2D fighter EVERYTHING needed for the match has to be held immediately accessable in RAM, it can't be streamed like in say, a racing game. So you could chuck in as many characters as you want. you don't have to compromise them.

When I site 'flashiness' I refer to things like impact flashes and motion trails, which are spite based and so look more organic and suited to the game, they're bigger than any other sprite ones I've seen, and are different depending on point of impact, also, Terry bogard's 'power gyser' only ever looked cool in MOTW, in KOF games it flashes in and out, not exactly breaking the frame bank then.

Finally, a 'few more frames' is a bit underestimating isn't it, even during the slow motion knock outs SF3 looks astoundingly smooth. It's almost overkill really, but hey, elena sure looks cool.

Oh yes, you're right, I DO have a chip on my shoulder for the majority of PS2 owners who constantly site that because it's sold the most units it has to be the best system, I have little tolerance for stupidity or ignorance, especially coming from a market that has licenced games consistantly topping the sales charts.

Oh, and buying a system at launch for full price specifically for a game that won't even be available for over a year, that has to top my big list of dickheaded practices. right alongside MAME users too bloody cheap to splash out for a joystick (hmmm, keyjams).

[dafunkdoc]

I would like to see another Street Fighter game out for the consoles, and it really doesnt matter which console. A port of Project Justice would also be nice or a sequal, VS3. I have not seen a KOF game in a while, except in the arcades. KOF could be easily done on PS2.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Look, a DVD disc holds 4 gigs of data, that means that it holds 1000 times more data than the PS2 can hold in (specifically) video Ram.
</div>

And which 2D fighting game is larger than one gig? I would love to know.

[Brendon]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

And which 2D fighting game is larger than one gig? I would love to know.</div>

King of fighters 98 on Neo Geo was a whopping 689 meg cart so considering just how much bigger later versions are and Third strike is, it's not all that hard to top the gig mark.

What are you getting at anyway Folken? Just because the data storage medium holds a lot dosn't increase your system specs. I pointed it out to answer slade's question and the simple answer is that you don't get to have more characters by making them smaller.

It's funny, this reminds me of people constantly asking how a 16 bit system could have 24 and 32 meg games.