Great Gamecube Lineup for the Holidays!!!

[iVirtual]

Mario Kart!!!
Viewtiful Joe

oh thats it??

I think ill stay with Xbox. with EXCLUSIVE GAMES like

Project Gotham 2..a lot better that that piece of crap Mario Kart...ONLINE
Crimson Skies..play it then we'll talk...ONLINE
Ninja Gaiden...i think ill take ninja gaiden over Pretty Joe any day...
Rainbow Six 3..ONLINE
Counterstrike..ONLINE
Top Spin..Best Tennis game ever???..ONLINE
Sega GT Online...ONLINE obviously
Links 2004..ONLINE
Dead Man's Hand...ONLINE
NHL Rivals...ONLINE

Console Exclusives like..

Max Payne 2
Deus Ex 2
Unreal 2

and all the 3rd party games...that are on GC also...but that look better sound better and play better on Xbox.

not to mation EA will soon support Xbox Live...and of Course Halo 2, Fable, Half Life, and Doom 3.

Nintendo is just damn lucky it can afford to drop the price of their pathetic console to 99$ and even so they are struggling to survive.

Imagine Xbox at 99$...GAME CUBE DIES....

[trebor]

So, how's that "never going to post in System Wars again" thing working out for you?

[Tracer1]

That shows us how System Wars is irresistible.:D

[iVirtual]

Well, i just couldnt resist. XBOX is kicking GC's Ass too hard so i had to say something.

Anyway..any comments on my post? or am i 100% correct?

[mass]

You forgot about Pokemon Channel. Shake that tail, Pika!! I gotta rent this sucker just to have a good laugh. Hey, you Pikachu, now this, nobody but nobody makes funner games on the planet than nintendo. Woot, woot!

[no.1gamer]

Project Gotham 2..This game does look pretty cool. I'll give you this one. Mario Kart is too different to compare the 2.
Crimson Skies..Didn't this game come out a few years ago? Oh yea, it's a PC port.
Ninja Gaiden..This game isn't out yet. How do you know it'll be better than VJ (which is doubtful)?
Rainbow Six 3..I'll look into this once I play through the other 12 million Tom Clancy games.
Counterstrike..Hey, I have this game on my computer already. Although I would like to pay $50 plus online fees to play it with the worst controller ever. Where do I sign up?
Top Spin..I'll give you this one also. Although it doesn’t intrest me because I don't care for tennis much.
Sega GT Online..I don't understand how this game is different from Sega GT!
Links 2004..Tiger Woods 2004 is better.
Dead Man's Hand..I've never even heard of this!
NHL Rivals..I'll take EA's offering thank you.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Mario Kart!!!
Viewtiful Joe

oh thats it??

I think ill stay with Xbox. with EXCLUSIVE GAMES like

Project Gotham 2..a lot better that that piece of crap Mario Kart...ONLINE
Crimson Skies..play it then we'll talk...ONLINE
Ninja Gaiden...i think ill take ninja gaiden over Pretty Joe any day...
Rainbow Six 3..ONLINE
Counterstrike..ONLINE
Top Spin..Best Tennis game ever???..ONLINE
Sega GT Online...ONLINE obviously
Links 2004..ONLINE
Dead Man's Hand...ONLINE
NHL Rivals...ONLINE

Console Exclusives like..

Max Payne 2
Deus Ex 2
Unreal 2

and all the 3rd party games...that are on GC also...but that look better sound better and play better on Xbox.

not to mation EA will soon support Xbox Live...and of Course Halo 2, Fable, Half Life, and Doom 3.

Nintendo is just damn lucky it can afford to drop the price of their pathetic console to 99$ and even so they are struggling to survive.

Imagine Xbox at 99$...GAME CUBE DIES....</div>

NO CONTEST

[Vgamer]

Dead Man's Hand got pushed back into next year :(. But other than that, it is a good list. Thought I have to agree that Tiger Woods is far better than Links. I have never been a real fan of PGR 2 or Sega GT, but I am sure they will be fun on Live for some.

[iVirtual]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Project Gotham 2..This game does look pretty cool. I'll give you this one. Mario Kart is too different to compare the 2.
Crimson Skies..Didn't this game come out a few years ago? Oh yea, it's a PC port.
Ninja Gaiden..This game isn't out yet. How do you know it'll be better than VJ (which is doubtful)?
Rainbow Six 3..I'll look into this once I play through the other 12 million Tom Clancy games.
Counterstrike..Hey, I have this game on my computer already. Although I would like to pay $50 plus online fees to play it with the worst controller ever. Where do I sign up?
Top Spin..I'll give you this one also. Although it doesn’t intrest me because I don't care for tennis much.
Sega GT Online..I don't understand how this game is different from Sega GT!
Links 2004..Tiger Woods 2004 is better.
Dead Man's Hand..I've never even heard of this!
NHL Rivals..I'll take EA's offering thank you.</div>


Oh..to different to compare??? yeah sure...afraid of competition i see...
A racing game is a racing game.

Crimson Skies is NOT THE SAME GAME YOU F***** MORON!

Rainbow Six is a different Game with new levels..is not the same game...and the Xbox controller is better than the GC controller BTW..and if you have played 12 million Clancy games the why the hell do you keep playing Mario sh1t???

NInja gaiden WILL be out this year And it WILL be better than Pretty Joe.

You dont understan how Sega Gt online is different than Sega GT??? you must be stupid....does the word ONLINE say anything??

Links2004 has online Play, which is something GC doest do very well...

Dead Mans Hand...check it out then...

NHL rivals...ONLINE..unlike GC and we also have ESPN 2K4 which kicked EA's ass....

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


unlike GC and we also have ESPN 2K4 which kicked EA's ass....</div>

He won't give you that one since it is available on PS2. So sorry...that one cannot be used in the Xbox vs. GC argument. Plus it is a sports title so it doesn't count for that reason too. GC doesn't need any other sports titles besides EA games. LOL.

[iVirtual]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

He won't give you that one since it is available on PS2. So sorry...that one cannot be used in the Xbox vs. GC argument. Plus it is a sports title so it doesn't count for that reason too. GC doesn't need any other sports titles besides EA games. LOL.</div>


Still, its better on Xbox with Xbox Live. and it still counts as Holiday Lineup!

I wonder whats gonna happen once EA start supporting XBL...which it will next year...not that i care cause i think EA sucks, but its definitely a nice addition to the library...

[geoff2]

This is defenaitly the season of the box. Not only does it crush the GC holiday lineup but it also has the PS2's number this christmas. The only game ps2 has this year is X-2 and according to the Gamespot review it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Don't forget the line up xbox has for early next year also. No contest.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Links 2004..Tiger Woods 2004 is better.</div>

Uh... no.

<div class=\"smallfont\">Thought I have to agree that Tiger Woods is far better than Links.</div>

No way!

------
I am currently, and probably will be forever more, enrapt in both TW (for the P2) and Links (for the XB), so you aren't going to hear me me say too many bad things about either game...
but I'm liking Links a lot better.

I was actually thinking about doing a write up comparing these two, and other great golf games of this gen, sometime soon, but I can tell you right now that these two are the best golf games... EVAR!!! (Sorry Hot Shots 3... you've been knocked down to third. But anybody that doesn't think that your next iteration can retake the top spot doesn't know you very well, do they!?!?) They are incredibly... incredibly... similar. It's just that each game focuses on some different things. For example, Tiger Woods is all about keeping you playing Tiger Woods, while Links is all about getting you ready for XSN play.

Ah, heck...

Tiger Woods is incredibly deep. My favorite thing about it is the create-a-player-RPG-aspect of the game. But the special and real-time events are the shizz-nit too! Upgrades and new items for your character (like equipment, clothing, and accesories) come at a very steep price, though. The only way that you'll ever earn enough cash to buy that new polo that you saw and liked is to play the game a lot! Like, first you'll need to earn enough cash/points to improve your attributes, so that earning more cash/points will come easier to you later, so then you can (finally) buy that $200,000 polo!

My biggest problem with TW is the putting. It's not "horrible", but it's close. Let me put it to you like this: without the caddy's tips telling you where to move your aiming marker, it is almost impossible to figure out what to do on your own. And sometimes, this crucial bit of information comes up as "unavailable"! If you can beleive that! Once, after an awesome chip shot that left with me only a one-to-two-inch putt for birdie, my caddy took a powder, or something, and the putting info that I needed wasn't displayed - like I just said that it sometimes isn't. Of course, with such a short putt you wouldn't think that it would've been a problem - and neither did I... until my birdie putt rolled 5 feet past the cup! See, without the caddy's tip there was no way for me to tell/see that my putting line was going down a severe slope! I gotta tell ya - I haven't seen putting troubles like this since the NES "Golf" game! And this is just inexcusable for a this-gen golf sim - especially one of this calibur.

Links 2004 does not have the create-a-player like I thought it would, and in that respect it is dissapointing. But the game is still very deep, and the single-player-career-mode is like one gigantic, and long, tutorial. One that is chock full of challenges and mini games (it builds up your skill levels and is fun too), I might add. Also, putting spin on the ball is much easier in than in TW - as well as more realistic. (I mean, how the hell can you (realistically) affect the spin of the ball after you hit it, and while it's in flight?!? What is up with that?!?) There's also more shots, and more game modes. It is a golfers paradise! It's just not the RPS that TWs is. :(

Putting in Links starts out very easy, as there is a movable putting line drawn from your putter to the cup. But as you advance thru the difficulty levels this line becomes much shorter and narrower, and putting eventually becomes as challenging as it is in real-life. However it is still do-able becasue in Links you can see the breaks and the slope for yourself. And that's without a grid! (Yes, the game is detailed that much!)

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Uh... no.

<div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

No way!

------
I am currently, and probably will be forever more, enrapt in both TW (for the P2) and Links (for the XB), so you aren't going to hear me me say too many bad things about either game...
but I'm liking Links a lot better.

I was actually thinking about doing a write up comparing these two, and other great golf games of this gen, sometime soon, but I can tell you right now that these two are the best golf games... EVAR!!! </div>


That's a good idea. . . an extensive post comparing the best golf games. You should do that.

Is Tiger Woods 2004 a seriously different game than 2003, or is it just a slight graphical upgrade with little extra's like the polo shirt you mentioned? Since I've already played 2003, I think for my next golf game I'd like to get something really different. I hadn't looked at Links at all. . .hadn't heard anyone recommend it. I'll have to check that one out.

And for the record, I know it's kinda silly to compare mario golf to the sim games, but I've really enjoyed the new mario golf as a multi-player game. I've played it with an open minded xbox owning friend as well as xbot friends of his, and everyone seems to enjoy Mario Golf. I just don't get anyone who calls it a clone of the N64 Golf. As far as a golf sequel goes, this one has massively different courses than the N64 version, from tree top courses, to dodging ghosts flying in the air, to trying to sink the ball into a warp pipe (very hard to do) in order to reach the green earlier. Even though golf is golf and sequels basically improve physics and graphics, I think Camelot did a great job of finding ways to make a fresh golf game. And so many game modes. Co-op mode was a really cool addition. The only gripe I had is the same one you had with TW 2004: the putting could have been a little better.

And I would have liked a a real mini-golf game included (the n-64 mini-golf sucked.) You know, with windmills and other mini-golf putting obstacles.

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I think ill stay with Xbox. with EXCLUSIVE GAMES like

Project Gotham 2..a lot better that that piece of crap Mario Kart...ONLINE
Crimson Skies..play it then we'll talk...ONLINE
Ninja Gaiden...i think ill take ninja gaiden over Pretty Joe any day...
Rainbow Six 3..ONLINE
Counterstrike..ONLINE
Top Spin..Best Tennis game ever???..ONLINE
Sega GT Online...ONLINE obviously
Links 2004..ONLINE
Dead Man's Hand...ONLINE
NHL Rivals...ONLINE

Console Exclusives like..

Max Payne 2
Deus Ex 2
Unreal 2
</div>

Don't forget Armed & Dangerous! I'm looking forward to this one probably as much as Ninja Gaiden.

[iVirtual]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Don't forget Armed & Dangerous! I'm looking forward to this one probably as much as Ninja Gaiden.</div>


I also forgot to mention True Crime and the GTA Double Pack. They may be multiplatform, but GC doest have GTA and it sure makes the Holiday Lineup for the XBX a lot stronger...

[Whaxx]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Project Gotham 2..This game does look pretty cool. I'll give you this one. Mario Kart is too different to compare the 2.
Crimson Skies..Didn't this game come out a few years ago? Oh yea, it's a PC port.
Ninja Gaiden..This game isn't out yet. How do you know it'll be better than VJ (which is doubtful)?
Rainbow Six 3..I'll look into this once I play through the other 12 million Tom Clancy games.
Counterstrike..Hey, I have this game on my computer already. Although I would like to pay $50 plus online fees to play it with the worst controller ever. Where do I sign up?
Top Spin..I'll give you this one also. Although it doesn’t intrest me because I don't care for tennis much.
Sega GT Online..I don't understand how this game is different from Sega GT!
Links 2004..Tiger Woods 2004 is better.
Dead Man's Hand..I've never even heard of this!
NHL Rivals..I'll take EA's offering thank you.</div>

Dude, I'm laughing, I've played NHL 2003 to death, won the cup twice and working on my third, when I played 2004 at future I actually thought that it was 2003, I was playing it and I said to myself " why the f*** are they putting 2003 out here instead of 2004?!" and then I pressed start and a new menu popped up I realized that it was 2004, and I said "what a damn rip!", this year I'll pick up either ESPN's or whats this new Rivals? whos it done by?, anyway one of those two if any.

[iVirtual]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Dude, I'm laughing, I've played NHL 2003 to death, won the cup twice and working on my third, when I played 2004 at future I actually thought that it was 2003, I was playing it and I said to myself " why the f*** are they putting 2003 out here instead of 2004?!" and then I pressed start and a new menu popped up I realized that it was 2004, and I said "what a damn rip!", this year I'll pick up either ESPN's or whats this new Rivals? whos it done by?, anyway one of those two if any.</div>

Pick ESPN 2K4...Rival is done by Microsoft, SEGA is making the best sports games with Online Play.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Don't forget Armed & Dangerous! I'm looking forward to this one probably as much as Ninja Gaiden.</div>

He also forgot Star Wars: Jedi Academy and Magic the Gathering: Battlegrounds.

A&D indeed looks great, but c'mon... Ninja Gaiden is the one we've all been waiting months (many, many, months!) for!!!

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div>I also forgot to mention True Crime and the GTA Double Pack. They may be multiplatform, but GC doest have GTA and it sure makes the Holiday Lineup for the XBX a lot stronger...
</div>

Whoa! Take it easy iVirt, don't hurt 'em! They're just kiddies for pete's sake!

Seriously, there's a lot more games for the P2 and XB that the GC isn't getting than what you just mentioned. Just don't even go there, friend. Unless, of course, you want to upset some people. :D

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div>That's a good idea. . . an extensive post comparing the best golf games. You should do that.

Is Tiger Woods 2004 a seriously different game than 2003, or is it just a slight graphical upgrade with little extra's like the polo shirt you mentioned? Since I've already played 2003, I think for my next golf game I'd like to get something really different. I hadn't looked at Links at all. . .hadn't heard anyone recommend it. I'll have to check that one out.

And for the record, I know it's kinda silly to compare mario golf to the sim games, but I've really enjoyed the new mario golf as a multi-player game. I've played it with an open minded xbox owning friend as well as xbot friends of his, and everyone seems to enjoy Mario Golf. I just don't get anyone who calls it a clone of the N64 Golf. As far as a golf sequel goes, this one has massively different courses than the N64 version, from tree top courses, to dodging ghosts flying in the air, to trying to sink the ball into a warp pipe (very hard to do) in order to reach the green earlier. Even though golf is golf and sequels basically improve physics and graphics, I think Camelot did a great job of finding ways to make a fresh golf game. And so many game modes. Co-op mode was a really cool addition. The only gripe I had is the same one you had with TW 2004: the putting could have been a little better.

And I would have liked a a real mini-golf game included (the n-64 mini-golf sucked.) You know, with windmills and other mini-golf putting obstacles.
</div>

One of these days. ;)

This is the first Tiger Woods game that I've ever owned, so I really couldn't tell you how much different it is than the 2003 version. But from what I've read, it's more than just an upgrade. And from what I've seen for myself, the graphical upgrades are more than just, "slight". They have to be... as this could well be the best looking PS2 game to date! I'd certainly put it right up there with Jak II.

And those "little extras" are actually the big deal. As I've said before, TW2004 feels like a "true" RPG, to me. I don't know about TW'03, but this game goes along with the PS2s internal clock/calender and has special contests and real PGA tour events scheduled on specific dates. For 10 years! But for me, it was EA's "game face" that took the cake. If none of that sounds all that interesting to you, or doesn't sound like much of an upgrade, then perhaps you should just just wait (oh about... 10 months, for the price to come down :p )... or give it a rent first. (Though I'll bet anything that you'll get into, and hooked on, "game face" too!)

Have you read the IGN review? Though I don't agree with everything they said, 100%, they did cover the game in great detail. I'm sure that if you read their article you'll be able to tell what's different, or better (or not), about 2004.

One thing I must add: my friend has the XB version (and it was in playing hers that I got hooked, and eventually running out to buy my own) but I was really bothered by one thing about it... and that's that EA allowed for only 4 save files! Which is absolutely, ridiculously, absurd, and uncalled for... considering the size of the XB harddrive!!! So if you do get it, be careful who you show the "game face" off to, as everybody wants to create their own guy - but only 4 will be able to save their hard work! I haven't found out if you can, or can't, save more files to a memory card yet, though. Nor have I found out if this is the same for the P2 version. I keep meaning to check that too. :( (I promise I'll look into it later tonite, or tomorrow, and let everybody know, though.)

As far as Mario Golf: TT goes... well... I'm sorry, Gadfly... but I did not like it. Of course, I can not stand Mario and his pals anymore so I'm not going to like the game much anyways... but I took real exception to the controls - or lack thereof. I only played the demo of it in the store though, so maybe I just "missed them"... somehwere?

You tell me...
- are there different types of shots that you can make (i.e chip, punch, flop, blast)?
- can you put spin on the ball? Or make draws or fades (and I don't mean slices or hooks)?
- can you check out the area where your ball is supposed to land, or preview the hole and green as often as you like?

I couldn't find out how to do these things on the demo.

Also, I did not like the swing controls. I don't mind the "3-hit-meter-method", really (as you'll remember that I'm a big fan of Hot Shots Golf 3), but I do not like the way it worked in this game. For anyone who hasn't played it yet, MGs basic approach is a 2-hit "automatic" method... that is strickly for kids (if not the birds)! There is an advanced/manual swing style, though, but again, I couldn't get into it in the demo; Gadfly will have to be the one to tell you about it.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

...this year I'll pick up either ESPN's or whats this new Rivals? whos it done by?, anyway one of those two if any.</div>

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>Pick ESPN 2K4...Rival is done by Microsoft, SEGA is making the best sports games with Online Play.
</div>

NHL Rivals is developed and published by M$ Game Studios.

I've had my eye on NHL Rivals as well, but know better than to rush out and buy a first-party M$ sports title without reading what IGN and GameSpot have to say about it first.

That said, the IGN review is in...
...and I'm out!

They hated it!

You'll definitiely want to check out the reviews before you buy, Whaxx.
I know now that I'm not going to be getting it anytime soon* tho'... forget about the GS review... IGN's said enough!

*I will prolly get the game eventually... some day (becasue it's got Stevie Y. on the cover :D )... but not before the price drops below $20!

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Project Gotham 2..This game does look pretty cool. I'll give you this one. Mario Kart is too different to compare the 2.
Crimson Skies..Didn't this game come out a few years ago? Oh yea, it's a PC port.
Ninja Gaiden..This game isn't out yet. How do you know it'll be better than VJ (which is doubtful)?
Rainbow Six 3..I'll look into this once I play through the other 12 million Tom Clancy games.
Counterstrike..Hey, I have this game on my computer already. Although I would like to pay $50 plus online fees to play it with the worst controller ever. Where do I sign up?
Top Spin..I'll give you this one also. Although it doesn’t intrest me because I don't care for tennis much.
Sega GT Online..I don't understand how this game is different from Sega GT!
Links 2004..Tiger Woods 2004 is better.
Dead Man's Hand..I've never even heard of this!
NHL Rivals..I'll take EA's offering thank you.</div>

Lets slap g@mer's replies around shall we?

Yes PG2 is different from Mario Kart.PG2 is online and MK is not.
Crimson Skies may be a PC port but its a damn good one.And you cant play it on the GC or the PS2.(Bottom line)
Ninja Gaiden WILL be better that VJ on the GC.Lets see Ninja Gaiden 1,2,and 3 will be included with Team Ninja's recreation of the franchise.Four games in one.Not even VJ can compete with that kind of replay value.
Rainbow Six 3 is once again another masterful stroke from Tom Clancy.Most wimps cant even get through one Tom Clancy game better yet a whole series of them.
Yes Counter Strike is online for PC games to play with.Now Xbox owners thats online with Live can do the same.Not available for PS2 owners online or GC owners.Get over it PC heads.(Plus playing this game with the Control "S" controller how can you go wrong?)
Top Spin is yet another feather in the cap of MS.A great game that has no equal or challenge from the PS2 or the GC.A great Tennis game that can also be played online.
Sega GT:Online.An online game for 20 bucks.Sounds good to me.Heres what makes no sense to me.PS2 owners having to Pay 50 bucks for VF4 the first time out just to have a director's cut of the same game come out less than a year later for only 20 bucks.(Way to waste good money)
Links 2004 and Tiger Woods 2004.Which is better? I say who cares.If you can own both games on the Xbox then do so.Cant lose that way.
Dead Man's Hand from Atari looks to be a cool game.This game may not may it for 2003,From what I've seen of it,it looks to be a sleeper.
NHL Rivals? You've seen one Hockey game you've seen them all.

The End.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Lets slap g@mer's replies around shall we?

Yes PG2 is different from Mario Kart.PG2 is online and MK is not.
Crimson Skies may be a PC port but its a damn good one.And you cant play it on the GC or the PS2.(Bottom line)
Ninja Gaiden WILL be better that VJ on the GC.Lets see Ninja Gaiden 1,2,and 3 will be included with Team Ninja's recreation of the franchise.Four games in one.Not even VJ can compete with that kind of replay value.
Rainbow Six 3 is once again another masterful stroke from Tom Clancy.Most wimps cant even get through one Tom Clancy game better yet a whole series of them.
Yes Counter Strike is online for PC games to play with.Now Xbox owners thats online with Live can do the same.Not available for PS2 owners online or GC owners.Get over it PC heads.(Plus playing this game with the Control "S" controller how can you go wrong?)
Top Spin is yet another feather in the cap of MS.A great game that has no equal or challenge from the PS2 or the GC.A great Tennis game that can also be played online.
Sega GT:Online.An online game for 20 bucks.Sounds good to me.Heres what makes no sense to me.PS2 owners having to Pay 50 bucks for VF4 the first time out just to have a director's cut of the same game come out less than a year later for only 20 bucks.(Way to waste good money)
Links 2004 and Tiger Woods 2004.Which is better? I say who cares.If you can own both games on the Xbox then do so.Cant lose that way.
Dead Man's Hand from Atari looks to be a cool game.This game may not may it for 2003,From what I've seen of it,it looks to be a sleeper.
NHL Rivals? You've seen one Hockey game you've seen them all.

The End.</div>

Look, online is a good thing, and it is a plus in xbox's favor. But seriously, you gotta be able to defend the line-up without that being your main defense. Why? 90% of xbox gamers are not online, and 100% of gamecube gamers are not online. So really, for most gamers on both systems, when comparing line-ups, most people really care about the quality of the core gaming experience. Reading your line-up, Sega GT is close to the same game with online added. Some PC ports (I don't think proclaiming Counter Strike being ideally suited to the "S" controller is really going to fly.) Where and when is Ninja Gaiden? I do expect it to be good. Crimson Skies is GREAT. The rest, PGII, Top Spin, and Links expand the depth and quality of the xbox line-up, but they don't--I believe--really step up and do something different to grab gamers attention like Viewtiful Joe. Racing, Golf, and Tennis--even done well--are going to appeal primarily to genre fans. I'm glad to see Viewtiful Joe is selling after so many predicted it would flop on GC.

Right now, online is really icing on the cake for the relatively few gamers who are doing it.

It is really saying something that Nintendo refused to invest in making Mario Kart online. If they had any intention of doing ANYTHING online this generation, Mario Kart would have been the game. It's a damn shame.

[no.1gamer]

Good point about the whole online argument Gadfly. It would be like me bragging about the GCN/GBA features on EVERY game.

PGR2: looks like a decent game.
Crimson Skies: Why would I play this on Xbox when I can play it on the PC for cheaper and without the worst controller ever?
Ninja Gaiden: RE 4 WILL be better than this game. MGS:TS WILL be better than this game. (I'm being sarcastic in case you didn't notice.) How do you know what WILL be better than VJ? Do you have the ability to travel through time and you've already played Ninja Gaiden?
Rainbow six 3: This game looks ok I guess. Maybe I'll play it on my PC when it comes out.
Counter Strike: Hey Gadfly lets buy Xbox Live so we can pay a monthly fee to play this game online even though we can play it on our computers for free! Plus we get to use the less precise Xbox controller instead of a Keyboard/Mouse.
Topspin: A great tennis game, but tennis is a lame sport. Sorry.
Sega GT: 20 bucks for a game that came out over a year ago? This should have been on your holiday list last year.
Links 2004: The Gamecube has Tiger Woods 2004 and Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour. That's a better combo than 2 golfing simulations I think.
Dead's Man Hand: I've never heard of this game.
NHL Rivals: This is the lowest rated game of the 3 hockey games that appear on the Xbox. Why did you include it on your list?

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Good point about the whole online argument Gadfly. It would be like me bragging about the GCN/GBA features on EVERY game.

PGR2: looks like a decent game.
Crimson Skies: Why would I play this on Xbox when I can play it on the PC for cheaper and without the worst controller ever?
Ninja Gaiden: RE 4 WILL be better than this game. MGS:TS WILL be better than this game. (I'm being sarcastic in case you didn't notice.) How do you know what WILL be better than VJ? Do you have the ability to travel through time and you've already played Ninja Gaiden?
Rainbow six 3: This game looks ok I guess. Maybe I'll play it on my PC when it comes out.
Counter Strike: Hey Gadfly lets buy Xbox Live so we can pay a monthly fee to play this game online even though we can play it on our computers for free! Plus we get to use the less precise Xbox controller instead of a Keyboard/Mouse.
Topspin: A great tennis game, but tennis is a lame sport. Sorry.
Sega GT: 20 bucks for a game that came out over a year ago? This should have been on your holiday list last year.
Links 2004: The Gamecube has Tiger Woods 2004 and Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour. That's a better combo than 2 golfing simulations I think.
Dead's Man Hand: I've never heard of this game.
NHL Rivals: This is the lowest rated game of the 3 hockey games that appear on the Xbox. Why did you include it on your list?</div>

I never played Crimson Skies on PC. I'd heard it was a buggy piece of crud, though. Apparently, the xbox version has been seriously overhauled.

On Counter Strike, though, I just can't understand how someone could proclaim the S-Controller and a pay-to-play service better than KB/Mouse and Free.

Overall, I think both fall line-ups could have been a little better. When you look at the October sales figures, Rogue Squadron--which came out at the very end of the month--did better than most xbox games including Crimson Skies. While I personally went with Crimson Skies for my flight game of the season, you can't discount that Rogue Squadron contributes strongly to the Gamecube fall line-up.

And speaking of games that rate in the 7.5 to 8 range, I don't understand why the xbox crowd isn't still listing Voodoo Vince as part of the great fall line-up. It's really killer even if it isn't selling well. Many Xbox owners lack of taste will be the death of that system. It's like MS is being punished for trying to make the line-up better and more diverse when stuff like PDO, VV, Oddworld, and Crimson Skies have such mediocre sales. When good, creative original stuff fails to sell, developers will just stick to their bread and butter Sports, FPS and Action Movie crap. The funny thing is, the xbots--many of them--said the original and amazing Viewtiful Joe wouldn't sell on GC because it wasn't made by Nintendo. They said GC fans have no taste, they just eat what Nintendo spoons out. It was nice to see them proven wrong. It really does show that GC fans will be 3rd party games if they are high quality and haven't already been out for months on PS2.

Personally, I think when talking about stuff that drives x-mas sales of new systems, we might as well look at everything since June. (That way KOTOR could be included. Undoubtedly, people buying a new system are doing so for much more than just whatever happens to be brand new in November and December.)

It's all good. My entertainment center looks really ironic now, with a little gamecube sitting on top of an xbox with enough room left over to set my wavebird on the xbox too, and both vying for my attention bewteen Mario Kart and Crimson Skies. This has been a good holiday season for gamers. (and I haven't even gotten Prince of Persia yet.)

[trebor]

Overall, I think both fall line-ups could have been a little better. When you look at the October sales figures, Rogue Squadron--which came out at the very end of the month--did better than most xbox games including Crimson Skies. While I personally went with Crimson Skies for my flight game of the season, you can't discount that Rogue Squadron contributes strongly to the Gamecube fall line-up.

I am pretty happy to see that Cubers didn't let a couple of bad reviews keep them from playing this partially flawed, but otherwise excellent, title.


And speaking of games that rate in the 7.5 to 8 range, I don't understand why the xbox crowd isn't still listing Voodoo Vince as part of the great fall line-up. It's really killer even if it isn't selling well. Many Xbox owners lack of taste will be the death of that system. It's like MS is being punished for trying to make the line-up better and more diverse when stuff like PDO, VV, Oddworld, and Crimson Skies have such mediocre sales. When good, creative original stuff fails to sell, developers will just stick to their bread and butter Sports, FPS and Action Movie crap. The funny thing is, the xbots--many of them--said the original and amazing Viewtiful Joe wouldn't sell on GC because it wasn't made by Nintendo. They said GC fans have no taste, they just eat what Nintendo spoons out. It was nice to see them proven wrong. It really does show that GC fans will be 3rd party games if they are high quality and haven't already been out for months on PS2.

Ding ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner.

[iVirtual]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Good point about the whole online argument Gadfly. It would be like me bragging about the GCN/GBA features on EVERY game.

PGR2: looks like a decent game.
Crimson Skies: Why would I play this on Xbox when I can play it on the PC for cheaper and without the worst controller ever?
Ninja Gaiden: RE 4 WILL be better than this game. MGS:TS WILL be better than this game. (I'm being sarcastic in case you didn't notice.) How do you know what WILL be better than VJ? Do you have the ability to travel through time and you've already played Ninja Gaiden?
Rainbow six 3: This game looks ok I guess. Maybe I'll play it on my PC when it comes out.
Counter Strike: Hey Gadfly lets buy Xbox Live so we can pay a monthly fee to play this game online even though we can play it on our computers for free! Plus we get to use the less precise Xbox controller instead of a Keyboard/Mouse.
Topspin: A great tennis game, but tennis is a lame sport. Sorry.
Sega GT: 20 bucks for a game that came out over a year ago? This should have been on your holiday list last year.
Links 2004: The Gamecube has Tiger Woods 2004 and Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour. That's a better combo than 2 golfing simulations I think.
Dead's Man Hand: I've never heard of this game.
NHL Rivals: This is the lowest rated game of the 3 hockey games that appear on the Xbox. Why did you include it on your list?</div>


You Cubers are dumb....

PGR2 decent??? 94.5 AVG Rating is not decent...its AAA
Crimson Skies IS NOT THE SAME GAME AS THE ONE ON PC YOU ****** **** ***** ***** HOW MANY TIMES????
Ninja Gaiden WILL be better, i traveled through time and im sure of it.
TopSpin, maybe a lame sport for you but its still the best Tennis game available anywhere. and its Online...
Counterstrike, the PC verison is old, full of cheaters...and since when is the S controller a bad controller?? many times has been rated better than the ****ty GC controller.
Sega GT ONLINE did not come out a year ago ...this one is ONLINE.
NHL rivals, ok it did get ****ty review, but ESPN Hockey is the best hockey game and its not on GC. Its Online too
Dead mans Hand will b good...youll see...search....

so i still think XB has a much better lineup...did i mention GTA?? did that come out for GC?? oh right....

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


You Cubers are dumb....

PGR2 decent??? 94.5 AVG Rating is not decent...its AAA
Crimson Skies IS NOT THE SAME GAME AS THE ONE ON PC YOU ****** **** ***** ***** HOW MANY TIMES????
Ninja Gaiden WILL be better, i traveled through time and im sure of it.
TopSpin, maybe a lame sport for you but its still the best Tennis game available anywhere. and its Online...
Counterstrike, the PC verison is old, full of cheaters...and since when is the S controller a bad controller?? many times has been rated better than the ****ty GC controller.
Sega GT ONLINE did not come out a year ago ...this one is ONLINE.
NHL rivals, ok it did get ****ty review, but ESPN Hockey is the best hockey game and its not on GC. Its Online too
Dead mans Hand will b good...youll see...search....

so i still think XB has a much better lineup...did i mention GTA?? did that come out for GC?? oh right....</div>

Midway Arcade Classics will be out in less than a week and Ninja Gaiden so far is still slated for a December release around the 13th.(Fingers crossed)

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Look, online is a good thing, and it is a plus in xbox's favor. But seriously, you gotta be able to defend the line-up without that being your main defense. Why? 90% of xbox gamers are not online, and 100% of gamecube gamers are not online. So really, for most gamers on both systems, when comparing line-ups, most people really care about the quality of the core gaming experience. Reading your line-up, Sega GT is close to the same game with online added. Some PC ports (I don't think proclaiming Counter Strike being ideally suited to the "S" controller is really going to fly.) Where and when is Ninja Gaiden? I do expect it to be good. Crimson Skies is GREAT. The rest, PGII, Top Spin, and Links expand the depth and quality of the xbox line-up, but they don't--I believe--really step up and do something different to grab gamers attention like Viewtiful Joe. Racing, Golf, and Tennis--even done well--are going to appeal primarily to genre fans. I'm glad to see Viewtiful Joe is selling after so many predicted it would flop on GC.

Right now, online is really icing on the cake for the relatively few gamers who are doing it.

It is really saying something that Nintendo refused to invest in making Mario Kart online. If they had any intention of doing ANYTHING online this generation, Mario Kart would have been the game. It's a damn shame.</div>

At least Xbox/PS2 owners has the option to play games online.Once again an Nintendo console will be taking a backseat to a Sony console as well as a MS console.Like I said before just think how great games like Mario Kart and F-Zero would've been if they were online?

Plus REAL gamers do care about the quality of game line ups.But then again Gamecube owners doesnt have a problem playing old PSX/DC ports of Resident Evil or old DC ports of Sonic and PSO.So I guess you are right that some gamers dont care about the quality of games thats on their consoles.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

At least Xbox/PS2 owners has the option to play games online.Once again an Nintendo console will be taking a backseat to a Sony console as well as a MS console.Like I said before just think how great games like Mario Kart and F-Zero would've been if they were online?

Plus REAL gamers do care about the quality of game line ups.But then again Gamecube owners doesnt have a problem playing old PSX/DC ports of Resident Evil or old DC ports of Sonic and PSO.So I guess you are right that some gamers dont care about the quality of games thats on their consoles.</div>


Oh gimme a break. That is the lamest attack ever. . . when dreamcast died Sega revived its stuff across all three consoles, which is GOOD since they are good games that not enough people played (obviously, or the dreamcast would not have died.) And remakes like Resident Evil. . . since when is a remake of a truly great game a bad thing? Are you gonna slam xbox for this when Conker Uncut comes out?

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


Oh gimme a break. That is the lamest attack ever. . . when dreamcast died Sega revived its stuff across all three consoles, which is GOOD since they are good games that not enough people played (obviously, or the dreamcast would not have died.) And remakes like Resident Evil. . . since when is a remake of a truly great game a bad thing? Are you gonna slam xbox for this when Conker Uncut comes out?</div>

So games like Sonic 1&2,PSO,Resident Evil,2,3,and Code Veronica were all great DC ports that GC owners deserved to pay full price for huh? LOL! Surrrrrre they were.(Those wonderful reviews told the truth on that)

The Resident Evil remake wasnt bad at all since it was a brand new game.But all of those DC ports truly wasnt needed.I was never a big Conker fan anyway so I could care less what Rare does for the Xbox.Perfect Dark is the only Rare game that I gave a damn about when it comes to the Xbox.Other than that I could care less.

In your eyes my attack was lame.But what I spoke was the truth.If it wasnt then you would've said so.But you didnt.

[rlnio]

max payne is not an xboxx console excluive, it is infact due to arrive to the ps2 to, HAHA

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">max payne is not an xboxx console excluive, it is infact due to arrive to the ps2 to, HAHA</div>

I dont expect MP2 to be any different.Since I own both the Xbox and the PS2 it really doesnt matter.(Xbox version of Max Payne 2 all the way)

"Will somebody tell me how a man dressed up as a bat gets all of my press? This town needs an inema."(Toot-toot) (smile)

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Look, online is a good thing, and it is a plus in xbox's favor. But seriously, you gotta be able to defend the line-up without that being your main defense. Why? 90% of xbox gamers are not online, and 100% of gamecube gamers are not online. So really, for most gamers on both systems, when comparing line-ups, most people really care about the quality of the core gaming experience. Reading your line-up, Sega GT is close to the same game with online added. Some PC ports (I don't think proclaiming Counter Strike being ideally suited to the "S" controller is really going to fly.) Where and when is Ninja Gaiden? I do expect it to be good. Crimson Skies is GREAT. The rest, PGII, Top Spin, and Links expand the depth and quality of the xbox line-up, but they don't--I believe--really step up and do something different to grab gamers attention like Viewtiful Joe. Racing, Golf, and Tennis--even done well--are going to appeal primarily to genre fans. I'm glad to see Viewtiful Joe is selling after so many predicted it would flop on GC.

Right now, online is really icing on the cake for the relatively few gamers who are doing it.

It is really saying something that Nintendo refused to invest in making Mario Kart online. If they had any intention of doing ANYTHING online this generation, Mario Kart would have been the game. It's a damn shame.</div>

Besides online gaming is the wave of the future.I've already defended my games.Regardless whether or not they're PC ports or not they're still great games.Hell if GC owners dont mind playing three year old DC ports then why should Xbox owners care about playing PC ports? Good question huh? I think so.

Plus the Xbox has a much better variety of games than the GC does.Online and offline.Thats a fact.