It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a .....

[mass]

... whatever. Nintendo is going to release a gaming product in 2004, it's not a console, it's not a portable, so what the heck is it? Color version of the virtual boy, nintendo speak'n spell, what? Nintendo is apparently going back to basics. You can read from yourself from the link.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/440/440453p1.html

Sounds like they're just going to keep doing what they've been doing all along. Maintain pimping of franchise characters, so we can expect even further mario and gang games, whoopee! More gba-gc connectivity, thrillsville! It's going to hire new talent. While they're at it, how about some new management. And they're going to create wholly original software. Yeah, right, like Mario Kart Triple Ass, and Super Mario Moonshine and Super Duper Smash Bros. Melee. And you can expect easier games to appeal to kids and noobs. Wonderful. Can hardly wait.

This company sounds totally confused and doesn't seem to have a clue in the world as to which direction they should go. What we're getting here is that they know they can't directly compete with either sony or ms, so they're not going to even try. Forget about multimedia features for the gc successor, if there is one, forget about online, forget about the introduction of new franchises to replace the stale aging ones, fact is, just forget about nintendo.

[shogun]

Wow...you have a pretty negative picture of a piece of hardware you know absolutely nothing about. It sure doesn't take much of an excuse for you to go on a hating spree. :rolleyes:

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Wow...you have a pretty negative picture of a piece of hardware you know absolutely nothing about. It sure doesn't take much of an excuse for you to go on a hating spree. :rolleyes:</div>

Mass is not hating on the hardware. The GC is an excellent peice of hardware ... I own one myself.

Mass is talking about a company who wants to stay in a rut. Mass is criticizing Nintendo's lack of vision for the future ... their lack of desire to really evolve and grow in the gaming industry. And, he's right. Look at the first party GC games released. Where is the strive to create innovative first party games or to really push their games to the next level? I've played Zelda, Metroid, F-zero, Mario Sunshine, Smash Bro's Melle .... they all seem to have one thing in common: fun games that are easy to get into, but lack long-term replay value and aren't really pushing any new boundaries. Where are the smarter enemy AI? Where is the well-ballanced racing for F-zero or Mario Kart DD? Why is Windwaker reusing 80% of the gameplay aspects they did in Ocarana of Time? Why didn't Double Dash bring us new tracks or some more classes of karts? Why are all F-zero races 3 laps long? These are good games, yes, but they lack real depth.

I suppose I may not be judging this correctly since kids also need games and the Nintendo first party games are accessible to younger kids as well as adults. I will give props to Nintendo for that. And, the first party games I've played are well polished, have good controls, are fun (in a more shallow way) to play at least initially, and appeal to a wide variety of gamers. But all in all, it seems that Nintendo is not taking enough risks and not introducing enough new gameplay elements. When I look at first party Xbox games, I see a strive to push foward (not all of them are successes, but I'm talking about he general feeling I get), whereas I look at GC first party titles and see something from the past.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Wow...you have a pretty negative picture of a piece of hardware you know absolutely nothing about. It sure doesn't take much of an excuse for you to go on a hating spree. :rolleyes:</div>

It is really not that hard for a guy who does hating days in and days out. It's all about practice...,isn't it, Mass?

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\"> Sounds like they're just going to keep doing what they've been doing all along. Maintain pimping of franchise characters, so we can expect even further mario and gang games, whoopee! </div>

Exactly. Why are they going back to? I will admit that Nintendo does a very good job of taking their old basics of gameplay, adding some small upgrades, making it very polished with excellent controls, and putting it on the GC. Mario Sunshine, Zelda, F-zero, Smash Bro's Melle are well grounded in the BASICS they created with their previous iterations of these franchises. That is what Nintendo is already offering gamers: the basics. And they're doing a darn fine job of it.

"The company stated that it would develop software that is easily accessible for gamers of all ages and for players with no prior experience."

Ummm, they're already doing that. Seriously, playing F-zero or Smash Bro's Melle doesn't require any previous experience. These games are quite easy to get into at first.

There's nothing they need to go back to. They need to go forward. This is Nintendo's fundamental problem. And no, I'm not just wining because of the lack of online support. Online is part of going forward. Nintendo needs a more comprehensive program focused on new franchises and new ways of gaming.

"One of the publisher's more intriguing goals is to create wholly original software that cannot be labeled a sequel or an extension of any existing genres or concepts."

Ah ha ! I sign of hope. However, the way the article presents this ("more intriguing goals") sounds like this was tacked on as an afterthought. (Just like the love subplot between Neo and Trinity). The goal to create "wholly original software" needs to become Nintendo's PRIMARY goal, not just a nice suggestion.
-----------------

And in other Nintendo news, management has announced they are now installing air conditioning to their buildings. "We feel that this space-age technology, known to lay people as 'air conditioning', is the wave of the future.", comments a Nintendo executive. "We've worked for years without it ... and I know what you're going to say, 'but it's expensive and not really necessary'. But to that we say, 'Nothing is too good for our employees.' We are on the fast track to the future."

This radical, new thinking by Nintendo management has sent a shockwave througout their entire employment. Many Nintendo employees are worried this new cost could signal some kind of change in the company's structure. I think the general sentiments of the workers can be well summed up by one of the Nintendo cheif programmers, "Does this mean I can still make more Mario games?" And to that, a Nintendo spokesman replied, "Of course you can. What else are you gonna do?

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Wow...you have a pretty negative picture of a piece of hardware you know absolutely nothing about. It sure doesn't take much of an excuse for you to go on a hating spree. :rolleyes:</div>

Yeah, I don't know what's with massy...
I read the article, but had a completely different reaction, than he did.

I finished it... and started cracking up!

But after a few seconds, I settled down. And thought...
'Sounds like they're just going to keep pimping their franchise characters, so we can expect even more toys based on Mario and friends! Whoopee! They're going to create wholly original software?!? What, like Mario Kart vs F-Zero Melee, Diddy Kong Ping Pong, and Super Smash Bros. Bowling?!? All of which are to be aimed at kids and noobs. I can hardly wait!' :rolleyes:

And then thought...
'This company sounds totally confused and doesn't seem to have a clue in the world as to which direction they should go. What we're getting here is that they know they can't directly compete with either sony or ms, so they're not going to even try. Forget about multimedia features for the gc successor, if there is one, forget about online, forget about the introduction of new franchises to replace the stale aging ones, fact is, just forget about nintendo.'

I don't know... what was mass thinking?!?
:D

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Mass is talking about a company who wants to stay in a rut. Mass is criticizing Nintendo's lack of vision for the future ... their lack of desire to really evolve and grow in the gaming industry. And, he's right. Look at the first party GC games released. Where is the strive to create innovative first party games or to really push their games to the next level? I've played Zelda, Metroid, F-zero, Mario Sunshine, Smash Bro's Melle .... they all seem to have one thing in common: fun games that are easy to get into, but lack long-term replay value and aren't really pushing any new boundaries. Where are the smarter enemy AI? Where is the well-ballanced racing for F-zero or Mario Kart DD? Why is Windwaker reusing 80% of the gameplay aspects they did in Ocarana of Time? Why didn't Double Dash bring us new tracks or some more classes of karts? Why are all F-zero races 3 laps long? These are good games, yes, but they lack real depth.
</div>

I am sorry to say that is a load of BS. What insight does Mass have here? Really, what vision does he have? Has he come up with any kinda of solution at all? Yea, Nintendo needs to make new frachise, new gimmick. no kidding. who doesn't? I am sure that is something easy to do considering there hasn't been any new figure in recent years that is as popular as Mario? And what has been so innovative from MS or Sony? None. Xbox is heavily relied on racers and FPS. Yea, that is so innovative. The funny things is there are more racing and FPS coming to Xbox. In fact, the next biggest title since Halo on Xbox is......HALO2! Of course then we have doom 3, Duex Ex2, FPS, and more FPS Ha!. How about PS2 then? FFX, FFX-2, FFXI, FFXII, the count conintues, or GTA series the 3D version of GTA2?

What you see in Zelda or Mario is happening in almost every game across all platforms. I don't think Nintendo is the only one to blame. The only advantage that MS and Sony have over Nintendo is that they both have enough 3rd party games to distract gamers from realizing how repetitive their first party games are. Halo will keep being like Halo for the years to come. Halo 2, 3 and perhaps 45 will play like Halo with more guns and different aliens in different arena. How about MS's Sims? Gran Turismo series will be the same like forever and ever. Can anyone say syphon filter? How about ape escape?

Really, we don't need pepole like Mass to tell us what the problems are, we need solutions. There are too many FF on PS2. There are too many Marios on GC. There are too many FPS on Xbox. Geez, we didn't see that coming. Do you have a better way to create sales? I am sure that Mass doesn't.

[GameLegend]

Okay i cant stand these comments anymore
First of all Mass is a fool who tries to find any miniscule reason to hate Nintendo.

Where did this grudge against a company come from? Did he buy a Zelda game and found out the cd wasnt in the package? Did the Yokomoto guy piss in his lawn? No. THis is a person we call a prejudice fool who has, either X-Box or/and Playation 2. He probably doesnt even own the GC console and doesnt know much about it. What we dont know, we fear, what we fear, we hate.

So dont take his premature 8-year-old acting rambles too seriously. Some might even go so far to say, that he's vilating his of right : freedom of speech. Oh well, i guess hes not gonna change his act after what i have said about him, and probably will try name calling me in his defence.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Okay i cant stand these comments anymore
First of all Mass is a fool who tries to find any miniscule reason to hate Nintendo.

Where did this grudge against a company come from? Did he buy a Zelda game and found out the cd wasnt in the package? Did the Yokomoto guy piss in his lawn? No. THis is a person we call a prejudice fool who has, either X-Box or/and Playation 2. He probably doesnt even own the GC console and doesnt know much about it. What we dont know, we fear, what we fear, we hate.

So dont take his premature 8-year-old acting rambles too seriously. Some might even go so far to say, that he's vilating his of right : freedom of speech. Oh well, i guess hes not gonna change his act after what i have said about him, and probably will try name calling me in his defence.</div>

His specialty is to hate. That actually makes him a unique member of system war.

[GameLegend]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

His specialty is to hate. That actually makes him a unique member of system war.</div>

Yeah i kinda keep forgetting that i m in a system wars form...
this is the only form (in this site) with some news on it that i know of. I guess i m used to reading objective news

[mass]

Okay i cant stand these comments anymore
First of all Mass is a fool who tries to find any miniscule reason to hate Nintendo.

Where did this grudge against a company come from? Did he buy a Zelda game and found out the cd wasnt in the package? Did the Yokomoto guy piss in his lawn? No. THis is a person we call a prejudice fool who has, either X-Box or/and Playation 2. He probably doesnt even own the GC console and doesnt know much about it. What we dont know, we fear, what we fear, we hate.

So dont take his premature 8-year-old acting rambles too seriously. Some might even go so far to say, that he's vilating his of right : freedom of speech. Oh well, i guess hes not gonna change his act after what i have said about him, and probably will try name calling me in his defence.

The only fool here is some clown referring to himself as Game Legend.
:o

What the hell is "vilating"? Geez, kids who play vidgames and flunk out of high school. What a disturbing trend. Let's see what a cube editor at IGN thought of nintendo's latest press release.

N-Query

Weekend update.


Back to the Basics

Hey Matt. How's it going? I just wanted to comment that after reading the articles posted on the site concerning Nintendo and its future plans, I can't help but think that the company is making a huge mistake. This "back to the basics" plan may be fine in some aspects, but it's obvious that once again Nintendo is ignoring the popularity of edgier adult oriented games as well as ignoring the online market. I was just hoping that you would fill us in on YOUR opinion about this news since whatever you say dictates my gaming life. Thanks!

Matt responds: Yeah, I was wondering about this latest statement from Nintendo. Here's the full comment:

"Nintendo will go back to the basics by developing software which is easily accessible to anyone, even without prior experience or knowledge and, at the same time, includes profound gameplay so that all players, regardless of their skills, can play to their heart's content."

I have to tell you, I'm skeptical. On the one hand, of course I like the idea of the company continuing to develop intuitive, pick-up-and-play software. But if that also means that it will come at the expense of depth and playability -- as in Kirby Air Ride, for example -- well, I think it's a solid step backward.

Further, I'm baffled that though Nintendo's emphasis on GCN/GBA connectivity in GameCube software has clearly not worked as a selling point, the company continues to cling to the philosophy as if it's a huge success. Who does it think it's kidding? Just about every third-party game that has included link functionality has sold worse on GameCube than Xbox or PS2. To me, that says that nobody cares. I didn't buy GameCube to play Pac-Man vs. and I doubt many other console owners did either.

I'm hoping that Nintendo will show off some revolutionary ways in which the GameCube and Game Boy Advance can be connected at the next E3, or that it will simply abandon the functionality altogether and focus on something that gamers are showing interest in, like online support. The company cannot continue to go against the grain of the games industry if it hopes to remain a major player.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, Matt doesn't sound any more optimistic than I am concerning nintendo. The company consists of a bunch of cheap ass putzes figuring out ways to bilk parents out of their money. Latest marketing gimmick, package outdated gameboy advances with the abysmal e-card reader as a holiday bundle. Nice one nintendo, two prodcuts that should be finding their way into a local landfill and you guys are busy putting them together into a bundle.

Just curious Mr. Legend, have you even played trilpe like Kirby's Air Ride, the game can ... ready for this piece of auot-assist,... play itself. That's right, you dont' have to worry about bathroom breaks any longer, just put the controller down and the game will keep right on playing on its own. Hell, it might even place higher than you would have.

Nintendo thinks the way to increase sales is to pump games full of franchise characters, dumb the gameplay down for noobs with no motor skills, and add that way cool gba gc connectivity.

I rented Ratchet and Clank : Going Commando. Terrific presentation, great visuals in widescreen and progressive scan, sound effects and music, great gameplay, well done interfaces and menus, a terrific platformer, in short, and I kept thinking to myself, why the hell isn't Nintendo doing something like this. Instead, I discovered that nintendo is going to release something called Pokemon Channel.

Yeah, Pokemon Channel, where you get to interact with your favorite pokemon Pkachu. Read all about the various thrills here.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/429/429383p1.html

Thanks, nintendo, that's all we needed, a follow up to "Hey, you, Pikachu." Hey, man, I don't hate nintendo, they've become too pathetic to hate. I just laugh at this company and what they're doing. So you have fun tuning in to PNNN, the Pokemon Nice Network News and watching pikachu exercise. So cute, why do I want to vomit thinking about it.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

the Pokemon channel DEFINES the current Nintendo era IMO.

Maybe this new hardware will end up being something completely new and fresh...who knows?

Probably Pokemon Channel DELUX edition.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">... whatever. Nintendo is going to release a gaming product in 2004, it's not a console, it's not a portable, so what the heck is it? Color version of the virtual boy, nintendo speak'n spell, what? Nintendo is apparently going back to basics. You can read from yourself from the link.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/440/440453p1.html

Sounds like they're just going to keep doing what they've been doing all along. Maintain pimping of franchise characters, so we can expect even further mario and gang games, whoopee! More gba-gc connectivity, thrillsville! It's going to hire new talent. While they're at it, how about some new management. And they're going to create wholly original software. Yeah, right, like Mario Kart Triple Ass, and Super Mario Moonshine and Super Duper Smash Bros. Melee. And you can expect easier games to appeal to kids and noobs. Wonderful. Can hardly wait.

This company sounds totally confused and doesn't seem to have a clue in the world as to which direction they should go. What we're getting here is that they know they can't directly compete with either sony or ms, so they're not going to even try. Forget about multimedia features for the gc successor, if there is one, forget about online, forget about the introduction of new franchises to replace the stale aging ones, fact is, just forget about nintendo.</div>

I am actually starting to feel sorry for Nintendo. They are really nothing more than a washed up toy maker. I don't really care waht the sales are now. If they don't at least attempt to change with the times a little bit they will get clobbered in the next round.

[The Buzz]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

I am actually starting to feel sorry for Nintendo. They are really nothing more than a washed up toy maker. I don't really care waht the sales are now. If they don't at least attempt to change with the times a little bit they will get clobbered in the next round.</div>

People seem to forget that Nintendo's business model is based around catering to <b>KIDS!</b> and what they watch, play, and buy. THAT'S the BOTTOM LINE! Sure they offer up some stuff for older players but their business is based around KID'S! K-I-D-S!!!!

Get over it all those in DENIAL!

[trebor]

I'm beginning to think Nintendo's stance is basically what is happening to the entire videogame industry - the over-reliance of tried and true franchises over taking chances with new and innovative titles. This is the exact thing I was leary of when M$ entered the mix - yet another corporate conglomorate falling in line and delivering "lowest common denomenator" fare.

Just look at what the big holiday titles are for the three systems - nothing but rehashes, sequels and remakes. For PS2 there is Final Fantasy X-2, like we need another Final Fantasy game, SSX 3 and I don't even know what PS2 people want this season. For Xbox the biggest titles is Ninja Gaiden, a remake, and some sequels - Deus Ex 2, and Rainbow Six: Point and Shoot Plus. For Nintendo it's Mario Kart and Rebel Strike, two sequels.

Mass might be a biased moron, mainly for focusing his rage on one company, when ALL OF US should be fed up with ALL THREE COMPANIES. For every one orgininal title released this year, like Viewtiful Joe or Crimson Skies, there are a 100 retreads released too.

To say just Nintendo is running in circles is totally ignorant and biased, when it's Sony, Micro$oft and Nintendo that are sucking all over the place.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I'm beginning to think Nintendo's stance is basically what is happening to the entire videogame industry - the over-reliance of tried and true franchises over taking chances with new and innovative titles. This is the exact thing I was leary of when M$ entered the mix - yet another corporate conglomorate falling in line and delivering "lowest common denomenator" fare.

Just look at what the big holiday titles are for the three systems - nothing but rehashes, sequels and remakes. For PS2 there is Final Fantasy X-2, like we need another Final Fantasy game, SSX 3 and I don't even know what PS2 people want this season. For Xbox the biggest titles is Ninja Gaiden, a remake, and some sequels - Deus Ex 2, and Rainbow Six: Point and Shoot Plus. For Nintendo it's Mario Kart and Rebel Strike, two sequels.

Mass might be a biased moron, mainly for focusing his rage on one company, when ALL OF US should be fed up with ALL THREE COMPANIES. For every one orgininal title released this year, like Viewtiful Joe or Crimson Skies, there are a 100 retreads released too.

To say just Nintendo is running in circles is totally ignorant and biased, when it's Sony, Micro$oft and Nintendo that are sucking all over the place.</div>

I will definately agree with you about the lack of innovation of all three companies. I think that Mass is actually fed up more with Nintendo for one reason(it is the same reason that I am more fed up with them too.) It is the force-feeding of these same franchise characters in practically all of their games. I mean companies will always make sequels since they continue to make money, but Nintendo takes it a step farther. Enough with Mario and Link already. It is getting a little ridiculous.

[trebor]

I will definately agree with you about the lack of innovation of all three companies. I think that Mass is actually fed up more with Nintendo for one reason(it is the same reason that I am more fed up with them too.) It is the force-feeding of these same franchise characters in practically all of their games. I mean companies will always make sequels since they continue to make money, but Nintendo takes it a step farther. Enough with Mario and Link already. It is getting a little ridiculous.

Here is a question for you...what difference does it make whether Nintendo uses Mario and/or Link in their games? Would it be necessarily better if they were the same games but with different lead characters? That is my problem with this anti-Nintendo diatribe that Mass dishes out every week or so.

It's okay for Sony and Micro$oft to put out formulaic platformers and FPS's - as long as the main character is different, who will notice the exact same style of gameplay but with somewhat different maps or minor gimmicks thrown in?

Every platformer is derivative of every other platformer, with a different arsenal of weapons or a gimmicky "time" function or "water pump" or "vacuum cleaner". Every FPS is derivative of every other FPS, with maybe a "gimmick" thrown in like using vehicles or squads. Is the core gameplay of Halo that much different than RtCW or Rainbow Six? Not so much.

Right now I'm playing one of the few truly innovative titles that is out in this generation of consoles - Pikmin. There is nothing quite like it out there right now (until Pikmin 2). Nintendo, of course, developed Pikmin. They also developed Animal Crossing. So while Mass *****es and moans about "Nintendo using their own franchises blah blah blah" he ignores the good things they have done.

Well, whatever. All three counsels suck this holiday season.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Evolution is the key to the future of gaming, Nintendo has evolved faster than Sony IMO. As gimmicky as GC to GBA connectivity may seem, it's still a cooler idea than forcing the purchase of a HDD on people to play the newest of one of the most popular series...

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Here is a question for you...what difference does it make whether Nintendo uses Mario and/or Link in their games? Would it be necessarily better if they were the same games but with different lead characters? That is my problem with this anti-Nintendo diatribe that Mass dishes out every week or so.

It's okay for Sony and Micro$oft to put out formulaic platformers and FPS's - as long as the main character is different, who will notice the exact same style of gameplay but with somewhat different maps or minor gimmicks thrown in?

Every platformer is derivative of every other platformer, with a different arsenal of weapons or a gimmicky "time" function or "water pump" or "vacuum cleaner". Every FPS is derivative of every other FPS, with maybe a "gimmick" thrown in like using vehicles or squads. Is the core gameplay of Halo that much different than RtCW or Rainbow Six? Not so much.

Right now I'm playing one of the few truly innovative titles that is out in this generation of consoles - Pikmin. There is nothing quite like it out there right now (until Pikmin 2). Nintendo, of course, developed Pikmin. They also developed Animal Crossing. So while Mass *****es and moans about "Nintendo using their own franchises blah blah blah" he ignores the good things they have done.

Well, whatever. All three counsels suck this holiday season.</div>

Geez Trebor turn that frown upside down. The holiday season is not that bad....as long as you own an Xbox(ha ha). Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I see your point completely, but for me, I think that it would make a difference if I was playing a Nintendo platformer with no Mario in it. I mean I think that it would be a different story if Nintendo would have just stuck to having Mario in the Mario World games. Instead, they have pimped him in so many other titles. As far as gimics in platformers go I think sometimes it does make a difference. Look at R&C---the gameplay revolves around powerful weapons so it feels like a fresh platformer when I am playing it. In SMS they gave Mario a waterpak, which should have been a nice innovation. The problem is that you are still Mario running and jumping and yelling woo-hoo the whole time. Not only do I totally feel like I have been there and done that, but it really does not help the kiddy image. Then you have games like Mario Kart and SSBM which are really fun games. The thing is why couldn't Nintendo make a kart racer or a fighting game without the franchise all-stars. It really strikes me like they are either scared or just plain lazy.

[trebor]

Geez Trebor turn that frown upside down. The holiday season is not that bad....as long as you own an Xbox(ha ha). Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I see your point completely, but for me, I think that it would make a difference if I was playing a Nintendo platformer with no Mario in it. I mean I think that it would be a different story if Nintendo would have just stuck to having Mario in the Mario World games. Instead, they have pimped him in so many other titles. As far as gimics in platformers go I think sometimes it does make a difference. Look at R&amp;C---the gameplay revolves around powerful weapons so it feels like a fresh platformer when I am playing it. In SMS they gave Mario a waterpak, which should have been a nice innovation. The problem is that you are still Mario running and jumping and yelling woo-hoo the whole time. Not only do I totally feel like I have been there and done that, but it really does not help the kiddy image. Then you have games like Mario Kart and SSBM which are really fun games. The thing is why couldn't Nintendo make a kart racer or a fighting game without the franchise all-stars. It really strikes me like they are either scared or just plain lazy.

Well, I'll put it like this, it doesn't make a difference to me what characters are in what game - as long as the underlying game itself is good, then who cares?

If Mario Kart sucks, then it should suck on it's own merits - not on who is in the roster. Now, I'm not saying "Mario Kart sucks", to any of you out there who reading comprehension handicapped.

Besides, as long as the underlying kart game is well made, it makes more sense to use characters from franchises you own, rather than inventing new, and highly forgettable, characters.

Or would you prefer a different set of franchise characters? How about Matrix Kart, with Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, and the rest of the gang, in cute little karts, shooting funny little weapons at each other? Or perhaps Halo Kart? I'm sure Master Chief, the Covenant and the Flood would make absolutely adorable Kart racing characters.

Kart racing, in it's essence, lends itself into being a very cartoony nature. So, does in not make sense, from a business standpoint, for Nintendo to use it's own franchised cartoony characters, as opposed to licensing and paying for other cartoon characters?

What about Crash Nitro Racing, or whatever it's called, why doesn't anyone complain about using the Crash Bandicoot characters in a different genre title?

Lets have a little consistancy here.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

It is really not that hard for a guy who does hating days in and days out. It's all about practice...,isn't it, Mass?</div>

You and Mass actually act just like each other.Except Mass actually does talk about more things than just how great Sony is.Unlike you.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Well, I'll put it like this, it doesn't make a difference to me what characters are in what game - as long as the underlying game itself is good, then who cares?

If Mario Kart sucks, then it should suck on it's own merits - not on who is in the roster. Now, I'm not saying "Mario Kart sucks", to any of you out there who reading comprehension handicapped.

Besides, as long as the underlying kart game is well made, it makes more sense to use characters from franchises you own, rather than inventing new, and highly forgettable, characters.

Or would you prefer a different set of franchise characters? How about Matrix Kart, with Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, and the rest of the gang, in cute little karts, shooting funny little weapons at each other? Or perhaps Halo Kart? I'm sure Master Chief, the Covenant and the Flood would make absolutely adorable Kart racing characters.

Kart racing, in it's essence, lends itself into being a very cartoony nature. So, does in not make sense, from a business standpoint, for Nintendo to use it's own franchised cartoony characters, as opposed to licensing and paying for other cartoon characters?

What about Crash Nitro Racing, or whatever it's called, why doesn't anyone complain about using the Crash Bandicoot characters in a different genre title?

Lets have a little consistancy here.</div>

I hear you, but I just think that it is high time that Nintendo attempt to create some new, memorable characters that's all. Btw---I will certainly not be buying Crash Nitro Racing because I think that the idea of having Crash Bandicoot characters in a kart racing game is stupid beyond belief. The thing about that game is that it is not being talked about like it is a killer app, so it is under a little less scrutiny.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">... whatever. Nintendo is going to release a gaming product in 2004, it's not a console, it's not a portable, so what the heck is it? Color version of the virtual boy, nintendo speak'n spell, what? Nintendo is apparently going back to basics. You can read from yourself from the link.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/440/440453p1.html

Sounds like they're just going to keep doing what they've been doing all along. Maintain pimping of franchise characters, so we can expect even further mario and gang games, whoopee! More gba-gc connectivity, thrillsville! It's going to hire new talent. While they're at it, how about some new management. And they're going to create wholly original software. Yeah, right, like Mario Kart Triple Ass, and Super Mario Moonshine and Super Duper Smash Bros. Melee. And you can expect easier games to appeal to kids and noobs. Wonderful. Can hardly wait.

This company sounds totally confused and doesn't seem to have a clue in the world as to which direction they should go. What we're getting here is that they know they can't directly compete with either sony or ms, so they're not going to even try. Forget about multimedia features for the gc successor, if there is one, forget about online, forget about the introduction of new franchises to replace the stale aging ones, fact is, just forget about nintendo.</div>

That was pretty damn funny Mass.LMAO!

[trebor]

I hear you, but I just think that it is high time that Nintendo attempt to create some new, memorable characters that's all. Btw---I will certainly not be buying Crash Nitro Racing because I think that the idea of having Crash Bandicoot characters in a kart racing game is stupid beyond belief. The thing about that game is that it is not being talked about like it is a killer app, so it is under a little less scrutiny.

I'm buying MK today. I'll let you know later how much the Mario gang "bothers" me while I'm happily playing it tonight.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I'm buying MK today. I'll let you know later how much the Mario gang "bothers" me while I'm happily playing it tonight.</div>


Ok that's cool, but really I will only be asking you one question. Is the game enough of an upgrade over the N64 version to warrant my purchase? Either way it will be on the backburner because of the response that PGR2 is getting.

[trebor]

Ok that's cool, but really I will only be asking you one question. Is the game enough of an upgrade over the N64 version to warrant my purchase? Either way it will be on the backburner because of the response that PGR2 is getting.

Well, I hope its similar enough to MK64 - that's what I want. A game like MK64 with better graphics and different courses - you know, a sequel. From the demo I played, and the movies I've seen of it, it looks and plays like sweet butter pancakes.

Why aren't you worried about PGR2 being enough of an upgrade over PGR to warrant a purchase? What monumentally different things are in PGR2 over PGR? Define "enough of an upgrade" for me, please.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Well, I hope its similar enough to MK64 - that's what I want. A game like MK64 with better graphics and different courses - you know, a sequel. From the demo I played, and the movies I've seen of it, it looks and plays like sweet butter pancakes.

Why aren't you worried about PGR2 being enough of an upgrade over PGR to warrant a purchase? What monumentally different things are in PGR2 over PGR? Define "enough of an upgrade" for me, please.</div>


I am not necessarily looking for monumental differences. Things like more cars, updated graphics, better sound and soundtrack, more forgiving tracks(in the case of PGR), better AI, more tracks,and more options. I am not saying that they should change the core gameplay, but especially in the case of Mario Kart it should be updated for a next-generation console. I mean look at a game like Madden---some years people ***** about lack of upgrades in that series. That is a series that comes out with a new version each and every year. When did the last Mario Kart come out? One thing that you better be able to say about that game(if Nintendo wants to take my money anyway) is that it is a good next generation title.

[trebor]

I am not necessarily looking for monumental differences. Things like more cars, updated graphics, better sound and soundtrack, more forgiving tracks(in the case of PGR), better AI, more tracks,and more options. I am not saying that they should change the core gameplay, but especially in the case of Mario Kart it should be updated for a next-generation console. I mean look at a game like Madden---some years people ***** about lack of upgrades in that series. That is a series that comes out with a new version each and every year. When did the last Mario Kart come out? One thing that you better be able to say about that game(if Nintendo wants to take my money anyway) is that it is a good next generation title.

Bought my copy of MK during my lunch break. Played the demo of it too, while I was at Gamestop. It's so dang smooth - like the butter syrup. The graphics are a big step up from MK64. I need to get used to the 2-Man set-up before I'll be able to tell how much better the game is as a whole.

[GameLegend]

<div class=\"smallfont\">The only fool here is some clown referring to himself as Game Legend.
:o

What the hell is "vilating"? Geez, kids who play vidgames and flunk out of high school. What a disturbing trend. Let's see what a cube editor at IGN thought of nintendo's latest press release.

N-Query

Weekend update.


Back to the Basics

Hey Matt. How's it going? I just wanted to comment that after reading the articles posted on the site concerning Nintendo and its future plans, I can't help but think that the company is making a huge mistake. This "back to the basics" plan may be fine in some aspects, but it's obvious that once again Nintendo is ignoring the popularity of edgier adult oriented games as well as ignoring the online market. I was just hoping that you would fill us in on YOUR opinion about this news since whatever you say dictates my gaming life. Thanks!

Matt responds: Yeah, I was wondering about this latest statement from Nintendo. Here's the full comment:

"Nintendo will go back to the basics by developing software which is easily accessible to anyone, even without prior experience or knowledge and, at the same time, includes profound gameplay so that all players, regardless of their skills, can play to their heart's content."

I have to tell you, I'm skeptical. On the one hand, of course I like the idea of the company continuing to develop intuitive, pick-up-and-play software. But if that also means that it will come at the expense of depth and playability -- as in Kirby Air Ride, for example -- well, I think it's a solid step backward.

Further, I'm baffled that though Nintendo's emphasis on GCN/GBA connectivity in GameCube software has clearly not worked as a selling point, the company continues to cling to the philosophy as if it's a huge success. Who does it think it's kidding? Just about every third-party game that has included link functionality has sold worse on GameCube than Xbox or PS2. To me, that says that nobody cares. I didn't buy GameCube to play Pac-Man vs. and I doubt many other console owners did either.

I'm hoping that Nintendo will show off some revolutionary ways in which the GameCube and Game Boy Advance can be connected at the next E3, or that it will simply abandon the functionality altogether and focus on something that gamers are showing interest in, like online support. The company cannot continue to go against the grain of the games industry if it hopes to remain a major player.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, Matt doesn't sound any more optimistic than I am concerning nintendo. The company consists of a bunch of cheap ass putzes figuring out ways to bilk parents out of their money. Latest marketing gimmick, package outdated gameboy advances with the abysmal e-card reader as a holiday bundle. Nice one nintendo, two prodcuts that should be finding their way into a local landfill and you guys are busy putting them together into a bundle.

Just curious Mr. Legend, have you even played trilpe like Kirby's Air Ride, the game can ... ready for this piece of auot-assist,... play itself. That's right, you dont' have to worry about bathroom breaks any longer, just put the controller down and the game will keep right on playing on its own. Hell, it might even place higher than you would have.

Nintendo thinks the way to increase sales is to pump games full of franchise characters, dumb the gameplay down for noobs with no motor skills, and add that way cool gba gc connectivity.

I rented Ratchet and Clank : Going Commando. Terrific presentation, great visuals in widescreen and progressive scan, sound effects and music, great gameplay, well done interfaces and menus, a terrific platformer, in short, and I kept thinking to myself, why the hell isn't Nintendo doing something like this. Instead, I discovered that nintendo is going to release something called Pokemon Channel.

Yeah, Pokemon Channel, where you get to interact with your favorite pokemon Pkachu. Read all about the various thrills here.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/429/429383p1.html

Thanks, nintendo, that's all we needed, a follow up to "Hey, you, Pikachu." Hey, man, I don't hate nintendo, they've become too pathetic to hate. I just laugh at this company and what they're doing. So you have fun tuning in to PNNN, the Pokemon Nice Network News and watching pikachu exercise. So cute, why do I want to vomit thinking about it.</div>


Yo Mass
The amount content u have wrote was unexpected
I have to admit have expected lower from u.
But like i stated earlier..i forgot this was a system war form. I am a newbie here and usually am used to hearing 'objective' news. I think the part where u kept commenting on every statement(I think Gorge was his name)a guy said in some interview, got me a kinda annoyed. It was after that "folken001" bluntly stated this was a system war forum that it actually hit me. Opinion here in any levels is allowed. Yeah so i could care less if u go on and say "lets go boycott nintendo cuz well i dont like their business stradegy"(not that i m saying that u would). It dont matter to me much to me anyway, i have all 3 consoles (x-box, ps2,gc).

Oh yeah i have played Kirby Air Ride (2 mins) and its pretty wierd but 'interesting'.

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Why aren't you worried about PGR2 being enough of an upgrade over PGR to warrant a purchase? What monumentally different things are in PGR2 over PGR? Define "enough of an upgrade" for me, please.</div>

I'll chime in here. I played over 80 hours of the first Project Gotham, completing about 95% of the game, getting all the cars, not being able to finish it all (yes, it is actually too hard for me to finish).

I've played the second one online about 2 hours total and offline about 4 hours total. I wasn't initially wowed at first because I had expectations of 60 fps, which the sequal is not. However, the game is really starting to grow on me and I am finding it more enjoyable than the first.

However, the question here is this: "What monumentally different things are in PGR2 over PGR"? To be completely honest, I cannot find any. Yes, there are improvements and changes, but nothing monumental nor anything really new. And this is perhaps what I am a bit dissapointed in: no new game modes or types of gameplay. PG2's core gameplay is still almost exactly the same as Metropolis Street Racer and Project Gotham 1. And, in the street races on harder difficulty levels, it seems it's the same basic strategy: get ahead of the pack within the first 2 or 3 turns, or else you've got no chance.

PG2 has tweaked what was in the first game and made the game more playable and less frustrating. Touching walls is more forgiving. It's harder to lose your kudos. You no longer lose kudos when touching a car, which does fix the basic problem in the first game of penalizing you because of a bad AI driver. The AI still pit maneuvers you, but NOT NEAR to the extent that they did in the first PG, and you can now pit them back (unlike in the first game where the AI were immune to you). There is still the small amount of rubber-banding that was in the first game, but it's not major. The game is not as generous with sliding kudos, but you have two new ways to make kudos (drafting and proper cornering). Overall, the Kudos system is better ballanced than the first.

They've also added in more cities, although the total number of tracks has dramatically decreased for some reason. Instead, the game now focuses more on car collection, as there are a lot more cars than the first one.

I was hoping for some new types of game modes to mix it up a bit. There are all kinds of creative possibilities with this type of racing, but we got the same types: street race, cone racing, one-on-one, hotlaps, timed runs.

Nothing really new, just tweaking and ballancing of the first PG, adding more cars, making it less frustrating, making it online accessible. I will applaud the game designers for making PG2 less frustrating, yet still offering an extreme challenge to those that choose the hardest difficulty level. It's just that is doesn't seem necessary (like in the first PG) to pick the hardest levels in order to finish the game. It's more of an option.

[trebor]

However, the question here is this: "What monumentally different things are in PGR2 over PGR"? To be completely honest, I cannot find any. Yes, there are improvements and changes, but nothing monumental nor anything really new. And this is perhaps what I am a bit dissapointed in: no new game modes or types of gameplay. PG2's core gameplay is still almost exactly the same as Metropolis Street Racer and Project Gotham 1. And, in the street races on harder difficulty levels, it seems it's the same basic strategy: get ahead of the pack within the first 2 or 3 turns, or else you've got no chance.

Okay, cool, this is what I was getting at with that question. I just find it to be a huge contradiction for people to say things like "MK-DD is just a rehash of MK64" and turn around and proclaim their love for PGR2, which could be construed as being a "rehash" of PGR1. See what I mean?


PG2 has tweaked what was in the first game and made the game more playable and less frustrating. Touching walls is more forgiving. It's harder to lose your kudos. You no longer lose kudos when touching a car, which does fix the basic problem in the first game of penalizing you because of a bad AI driver. The AI still pit maneuvers you, but NOT NEAR to the extent that they did in the first PG, and you can now pit them back (unlike in the first game where the AI were immune to you). There is still the small amount of rubber-banding that was in the first game, but it's not major. The game is not as generous with sliding kudos, but you have two new ways to make kudos (drafting and proper cornering). Overall, the Kudos system is better ballanced than the first.

They've also added in more cities, although the total number of tracks has dramatically decreased for some reason. Instead, the game now focuses more on car collection, as there are a lot more cars than the first one.

I was hoping for some new types of game modes to mix it up a bit. There are all kinds of creative possibilities with this type of racing, but we got the same types: street race, cone racing, one-on-one, hotlaps, timed runs.

Nothing really new, just tweaking and ballancing of the first PG, adding more cars, making it less frustrating, making it online accessible. I will applaud the game designers for making PG2 less frustrating, yet still offering an extreme challenge to those that choose the hardest difficulty level. It's just that is doesn't seem necessary (like in the first PG) to pick the hardest levels in order to finish the game. It's more of an option.

Judging from what your saying about PGR2 compared to PGR1, I think it will be safe to tell Prince of Darkness that MK-DD is a justifyable upgrade to MK64. Givin the graphics improvement, new courses, new characters, new karts, and so on and so forth.

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Okay, cool, this is what I was getting at with that question. I just find it to be a huge contradiction for people to say things like "MK-DD is just a rehash of MK64" and turn around and proclaim their love for PGR2, which could be construed as being a "rehash" of PGR1. See what I mean?
</div>

I see your point. Bottom line is that both PG2 and MMDD seem to be enhanced and tweaked from their predecessors, but not monumentally different ... i.e. sequals. And they both seem to be fun.

Now the question is this ... having read IGN's reviews of both games, why was IGN far more critical of Mario Kart DD than PG2? I can understand how the online play for PG2 would add extra life to the game and raise the overall value of the game. However, what I'm talking about here is the single player content. Read IGN's review and you'll see that they didn't dog the single player content of PG2 the way they did Mario Kart, yet PG2 could still be criticized for the same general reasons: lack of any new game modes.

Notice one of IGN's statements in MMDD's review: "With the GameCube in dire need of top-tier software, we have been counting on it to revive the legendary franchise with new vigor and bring the console yet another surefire reason to be owned by all self-respecting gamers."

OK? This doesn't make much sense. First of all, don't lower your score of MMDD simply because you were expecting it to be some kind of "savior" for the GC. Also, how many sequals have ever provided "new vigor"? Most sequals add new levels, characters, vehicles, tracks, etc and modify certain gameplay aspects, yet keep most of the overall gameplay in tact.

I was sitting around thinking about all kinds of creative new modes they could have implemented into PG2. Like, the ability to steal Kudos from opponents by hitting their cars in a certain way, or a penalty of transfering some of your kudos to the guy you accidently hit. Another example: all the cars race to one checkpoint, and when the first guy gets there you have to 180 and go back the other way to another checkpoint. How about implementing some kind of team play where if you and your teamate ride within a certain closeness to each other, you get bonus points. How about a mode where you can push a button to spend some of your kudos for a speed/nitrous boost ... then you'd have to decide how much kudos are you willing to lose for boosting verses the bonus points you get for you placement at the finish line. How about some tracks that have multiple pathways, and you get more kudos for choosing the harder/longer path. How about a mode like tag, where if you touch the guy who is it, you be come "it", but you earn kudos for each second you are "it".

These are just some ideas that popped into my head. But that took me, what, 5 minutes to brainstorm. Imagine if even one of those types of ideas was implemented into PG2. It would add some new gameplay. But nope, we only get the same gameplay that we saw in the first PG. I wasn't expecting these specific examples to be implemented, but why wasn't somebody sitting down and doing this kind of brainstorming? Why didn't they even attempt to add anything new, gameplay wise?

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Okay, cool, this is what I was getting at with that question. I just find it to be a huge contradiction for people to say things like "MK-DD is just a rehash of MK64" and turn around and proclaim their love for PGR2, which could be construed as being a "rehash" of PGR1. See what I mean?



Judging from what your saying about PGR2 compared to PGR1, I think it will be safe to tell Prince of Darkness that MK-DD is a justifyable upgrade to MK64. Givin the graphics improvement, new courses, new characters, new karts, and so on and so forth.</div>

Thats comparing one game thats taken a giant leap compared to another that hasnt.Fresh graphics and a co-op mode is the only thing Mario Kart has going for it.But at least PGR 2 has added in online gaming to its resume.See what I mean?

"Thats a very nice ass there,aint it a beut?" Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Thats comparing one game thats taken a giant leap compared to another that hasnt.Fresh graphics and a co-op mode is the only thing Mario Kart has going for it.But at least PGR 2 has added in online gaming to its resume.See what I mean?

"Thats a very nice ass there,aint it a beut?" Vincent Kennedy McMahon.</div>

Hmm, I think MKDD took a bigger step than PGR2. You drive the same way in PGR2 as you do in PGR. But, you have two people on a cart on in MKDD. PGR2 might have more extra features, but MKDD is the one that advanced in terms of gameplay.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Hmm, I think MKDD took a bigger step than PGR2. You drive the same way in PGR2 as you do in PGR. But, you have two people on a cart on in MKDD. PGR2 might have more extra features, but MKDD is the one that advanced in terms of gameplay.</div>

I guess it doesnt take much to please GC owners.LOL!

The only advancement thats in MK's gameplay is having two drivers in one car,each character being able to hold on to an item, and being able to choose different types of vehicles.Other than that its still Mario Kart.

PGR2 is basically gamewise the same like PGR.But now up to 8 players can play online and instead of PGR2 just being a multiplayer component,those hooked up to it while playing single player can see the record times and ghost cars of other online players who have gone before them.Plus another addition from the last one is that you can earn kudos in almost every segment of the game now.Aracade mode and World Series Mode.

So to basically both games has enough new things added to them to make both videogame experiences pretty damn refreshing dont you think 001? I do.

[slade]

So, obviously PGR2 is a rehash.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

I guess it doesnt take much to please GC owners.LOL!

The only advancement thats in MK's gameplay is having two drivers in one car,each character being able to hold on to an item, and being able to choose different types of vehicles.Other than that its still Mario Kart.

PGR2 is basically gamewise the same like PGR.But now up to 8 players can play online and instead of PGR2 just being a multiplayer component,those hooked up to it while playing single player can see the record times and ghost cars of other online players who have gone before them.Plus another addition from the last one is that you can earn kudos in almost every segment of the game now.Aracade mode and World Series Mode.

So to basically both games has enough new things added to them to make both videogame experiences pretty damn refreshing dont you think 001? I do.</div>

I don't see how having 8 players playing the same game make the game original nor do I see what a big leap that is. But, whatever, it's you and you have some of funkiest logic in the world.

I don't think MKDD is necessarily refreshing or whatnot, because it is pretty much the same as before. The bottomline for me is that I still find it fun to play. That is all pretty much I need.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">So, obviously PGR2 is a rehash.</div>

Only huge difference between the two is one is online playable and the other is not.Plain and simple.Thank you Folken and Slade for agreeing with me that both games are rehashes.

[slade]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Only huge difference between the two is one is online playable and the other is not.Plain and simple.Thank you Folken and Slade for agreeing with me that both games are rehashes.</div>

So, what you're basically saying is that if it weren't for online, PGR2 would be the bigger rehash. Considering that the majority of the X-box fanbase isn't on Live, which game makes the better value. Obviously Mario Kart.

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

So, what you're basically saying is that if it weren't for online, PGR2 would be the bigger rehash.</div>

Yeah, it would. At least Mario Kart has added some new elements to the core gameplay by using the "buddy system" for each cart. Without online play, PG2 offers no new core gameplay elements. It offers newer tracks, but ones that aren't vastly different from the first. It offers more cars, but this is not a significant change. It has tweaked some of the kudos system to better ballance it and has made the AI a little more reasonable, but this is not a change in the core gameplay.

However, for those of us who have Live, the online play is a significant change in core gameplay. Adding human opponents is vastly different than racing against computer opponents.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Yeah, it would. At least Mario Kart has added some new elements to the core gameplay by using the "buddy system" for each cart. Without online play, PG2 offers no new core gameplay elements. It offers newer tracks, but ones that aren't vastly different from the first. It offers more cars, but this is not a significant change. It has tweaked some of the kudos system to better ballance it and has made the AI a little more reasonable, but this is not a change in the core gameplay.

However, for those of us who have Live, the online play is a significant change in core gameplay. Adding human opponents is vastly different than racing against computer opponents.</div>

Now, I've never been a big fan of the term of "rehash" myself, but why the heck does someone care about the way someone else thinks about the game that they like?!? What... is the thinking that the label that one person slaps on the game may cause his favorite company's stock to plummet, or something!?!

Or is it more about being uncomfortable (and angry) about the nature of your true feelings about videogames?!? So you like to play kiddie games - while others are playing army sims... so you like the same old thing - while others tastes have changed. So what! Be a man! Get over it! And move on. Geesh.

Too many people here care about the wrong thing, methinks. I wouldn't doubt that the whole reason a lot of people haven't bought "that other" system yet is because they don't want to positively affect the sales numbers for that system... "For system wars!" I swear, some people don't seem to care about the games - at all.

Now, with regard to the MKDD vs PGR2... thing...
Darwin has summed up PGR2 pretty well, I think. No, the game isn't all that different from the first, as far as gameplay goes - but, you have to realize that nobody really wanted it to be! What we did want - we got!!! More, more, and more! And most of all, the ability to race against anyone, anytime, anywhere - live online! For those of us with XBL, PGR2 delivers!

And then some! See, there's one other little thing that Darwin forgot to mention about PGR2... and that's the way that the single-player and online multi-player experiences are... connected. Like MotoGP2, PGR2 is always "Live"... and this means that the times and rankings that you establish in your 1P game are automatically (and seamlessly, I might add) uploaded and then listed along with everybody elses - all across the world! It's not just something new to PGR - it's something new to videogames. It's a big step forward.

I haven't played MKDD much (just in the GC machine at the stores) but this series does not seem to be moving forward much - if at all. (If it is, it's taking baby steps.) Like the fans of PGR though, I'm sure the fans of MK didn't want DD too, really. Or did they? It seems like a lot of people are growing tired of this this series. It even seems like some are dissapointed, with this latest version.

And now it seems that some people are even getting upset about other people growing tired and being dissapointed! What's up with that?!?

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Yeah, it would. At least Mario Kart has added some new elements to the core gameplay by using the "buddy system" for each cart. Without online play, PG2 offers no new core gameplay elements. It offers newer tracks, but ones that aren't vastly different from the first. It offers more cars, but this is not a significant change. It has tweaked some of the kudos system to better ballance it and has made the AI a little more reasonable, but this is not a change in the core gameplay.

However, for those of us who have Live, the online play is a significant change in core gameplay. Adding human opponents is vastly different than racing against computer opponents.</div>

Bottom line:Both racing games are worth owning if you own either an Xbox or a GC.But Since PGR2 does offer the option of online gaming no doubt this gives the game more replay value than MK:DD in the long run.No ifs,ands,or buts about it.

[trebor]

Now, I've never been a big fan of the term of "rehash" myself, but why the heck does someone care about the way someone else thinks about the game that they like?!? What... is the thinking that the label that one person slaps on the game may cause his favorite company's stock to plummet, or something!?!

Or is it more about being uncomfortable (and angry) about the nature of your true feelings about videogames?!? So you like to play kiddie games - while others are playing army sims... so you like the same old thing - while others tastes have changed. So what! Be a man! Get over it! And move on. Geesh.

Too many people here care about the wrong thing, methinks. I wouldn't doubt that the whole reason a lot of people haven't bought "that other" system yet is because they don't want to positively affect the sales numbers for that system... "For system wars!" I swear, some people don't seem to care about the games - at all.

*sigh*

Well, I know you are talking about me when you are referring to this "someone" so just say what you want to me - instead of *****footing around the subject. Don't be a-scared now - as long as you don't blatently flame me, I don't mind what you say to me. I don't care what people are playing - as it comes down to a matter of opinion. I'm not telling anybody that their opinions are wrong.

Now that that's out of the way, you are taking things out of context. This was never a "MK-DD -vs- PGR2" conversation. I was merely pointing out how inherently contradictory it is to claim the new MK is merely a "rehash" and then turn around and proclaim that PGR2 is not.

If the new MK is a "rehash" then PGR2 is also a "rehash". Despite the fact that the changes in the new MK significantly alter the way the game is played. And also how the new online features make PGR2 significantly different than PGR1.

Basically, I don't agree with using the term "rehash" when the term "sequel" is more accurate.