Who's in first, what's in second....

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Somethings never change around here, the topics never really talk about who has the better games, only who has the most hardware sales. Odd, because the most important thing is software sales. And how for the last few months in the US, MS has managed to have just as many if not more titles in the Top 10 or Top 20 than the almighty PS2 is incredible. This speaks to a number of factors, that long ago, I said would make PS2's incredible installed base, not so incredible in the long haul.

1. What good is a PS2 if nobody is using it. You may have 50 million sold, but if those people aren't inspired to buy any new software, that actually is a negative. If 50 million people bought something, and they aren't happy with it, they will likely remember that the next time you try and sell something.

2. XBOX sales come directly from unhappy PS2 users. If you have an XBOX and a PS2 and a game comes out, what version are you going to buy? Unless its an EA game with online content(for PS2) there is no question but to buy the XBOX version.

3. Faster and easier development, more powerful hardware, better games now. Seems like so long ago, Sony fans would brag how we had to wait to play games 3 to 6 months. That lasted less than a year. Now the PS2 is missing out on important games, KOTOR. Or has to wait for other games like Rainbow6 for as long as a year. Maybe longer. Now the only reason XBOX is delayed on a game is because of contractual agreements Sony bought. Other games that are MIA on the PS2, Counter Strike, Deus Ex2.

4. Short Ugly Fat Stumpy legs, what you say? The PS2 is not built for the long-haul. Those long legs of the XBOX are coming in full stride. It is a long time until 2005 and 2006. How horrible can the prospect of gaming exclusively on the PS2 for another year or two be? PS2 is set to release some good games for the holidays, but my gosh this entire year has been dismal for the PS2. Has there been any AAA exclusive titles? Next year is going to be just brutal, forget about PGR2 and Counter Strike and Rainbow6, TopSpin, etc. now.
Next year you have Full Spectrum Warrior, Halo2, Fable, Halflife2, Doom3, Sudeki(if not this year), another Bioware rpg, Toca Racer2 ONLINE. That is all by the way in the first or second qtr. But just think PS2 fans, you only have to wait all 12 months of 2004, then if PS3 releases in 2005, that will be in Japan first, so you have to wait another 10 months till XMAS of 2005, so 22 months, then if they delay it until 2006, omg will the PS2 even hold up that long?

[Tappy_Tibbons]

PS2 has been a miserable failure so far this year.

[Gaming Geezer 78]

PS2 has been a miserable failure so far this year.

Yes, what a horrible, horrible year for PS2 fans & what failures for games. :rolleyes:

Socom 2 93.5%
Silent Hill 3 84.4%
Castlevania Lament of Innocence 83.1%
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 92.7%
Ratchet & Clank 2-Goin' Commando 94.5%
Jak II 88.7%
Dark Cloud 2 88.7%
Guilty Gear X2 87.3%
Final Fantasy X2 85.6%
Xenosaga Episode One 84.6%
Zone of the Enders-the Second Runner 82.9%
Ape Escape 2 82%

Yeah....how dismal and miserable it's been for PS2 owners in 2003. :rolleyes: I personally own seven of those titles and can account for how great they are. Try actually playing a game before talking crap about it guys.

Since neither of you two (you know who you are) even game on a PS2, why talk about it? You have no basis for bashing the PS2 since you don't game on it. I'm sure I speak for all PS2 owners when I say that we have had our fill of good & great games so far in 2003-thank you very much.

[Gaming Geezer 78]

Somethings never change around here, the topics never really talk about who has the better games, only who has the most hardware sales. Odd, because the most important thing is software sales. And how for the last few months in the US, MS has managed to have just as many if not more titles in the Top 10 or Top 20 than the almighty PS2 is incredible. This speaks to a number of factors, that long ago, I said would make PS2's incredible installed base, not so incredible in the long haul.

1. What good is a PS2 if nobody is using it. You may have 50 million sold, but if those people aren't inspired to buy any new software, that actually is a negative. If 50 million people bought something, and they aren't happy with it, they will likely remember that the next time you try and sell something.

2. XBOX sales come directly from unhappy PS2 users. If you have an XBOX and a PS2 and a game comes out, what version are you going to buy? Unless its an EA game with online content(for PS2) there is no question but to buy the XBOX version.

3. Faster and easier development, more powerful hardware, better games now. Seems like so long ago, Sony fans would brag how we had to wait to play games 3 to 6 months. That lasted less than a year. Now the PS2 is missing out on important games, KOTOR. Or has to wait for other games like Rainbow6 for as long as a year. Maybe longer. Now the only reason XBOX is delayed on a game is because of contractual agreements Sony bought. Other games that are MIA on the PS2, Counter Strike, Deus Ex2.

4. Short Ugly Fat Stumpy legs, what you say? The PS2 is not built for the long-haul. Those long legs of the XBOX are coming in full stride. It is a long time until 2005 and 2006. How horrible can the prospect of gaming exclusively on the PS2 for another year or two be? PS2 is set to release some good games for the holidays, but my gosh this entire year has been dismal for the PS2. Has there been any AAA exclusive titles? Next year is going to be just brutal, forget about PGR2 and Counter Strike and Rainbow6, TopSpin, etc. now.
Next year you have Full Spectrum Warrior, Halo2, Fable, Halflife2, Doom3, Sudeki(if not this year), another Bioware rpg, Toca Racer2 ONLINE. That is all by the way in the first or second qtr. But just think PS2 fans, you only have to wait all 12 months of 2004, then if PS3 releases in 2005, that will be in Japan first, so you have to wait another 10 months till XMAS of 2005, so 22 months, then if they delay it until 2006, omg will the PS2 even hold up that long?

Here we go....

1) As of September according to NPD sales figures, the tie ratio for hardware & software on PS2 is 5.6:1. The tie ration for Xbox is 5.8:1. Wow, big difference. Though it is good to see Xbox software sales not only doing well, but better than either other platform.

2) Actually, you are wrong. Aside from the EA online games, SSX games have better controller setups for the PS2 because of the four shoulder buttons. Spy Hunter and Need For Speed Hot Pursuit II were also both superior on the PS2. Many 3rd party titles are no different at all.

3) You are correct here. Xbox & PS2 3rd party titles now see simultaneous releases most of the time. Xbox also has a large library of exclusives that you can't get on PS2. And when a game like Crimson Skies manages to meld superlative gameplay and top-notch graphics so well, I will say myself that the graphics make for a better game experience.

4) See my response to Tappy for great PS2 games released in 2003. More than the number of greats released for Xbox in the same time span. And who says PS2 owners have to wait 22 months for great games? I'm sure great games will continue to be released for the PS2 up until the release of the PS3.

Most Japanese 3rd parties will continue to make PS2 development their priority. Oh wait....I forgot "Japs" can't make good games anymore. :rolleyes:

[slade]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Here we go....

1) As of September according to NPD sales figures, the tie ratio for hardware & software on PS2 is 5.6:1. The tie ration for Xbox is 5.8:1. Wow, big difference. Though it is good to see Xbox software sales not only doing well, but better than either other platform.</div>

Nah, tie ratio for PS2 in September was 7.19. Here's how it breaks down from the figures I listed a month or so back:

PS2: 7.19
Xbox: 5.91
GCN: 5.79
GBA: 3.18

[Tappy_Tibbons]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Yes, what a horrible, horrible year for PS2 fans & what failures for games. :rolleyes:

Socom 2 93.5%
Silent Hill 3 84.4%
Castlevania Lament of Innocence 83.1%
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 92.7%
Ratchet & Clank 2-Goin' Commando 94.5%
Jak II 88.7%
Dark Cloud 2 88.7%
Guilty Gear X2 87.3%
Final Fantasy X2 85.6%
Xenosaga Episode One 84.6%
Zone of the Enders-the Second Runner 82.9%
Ape Escape 2 82%

Yeah....how dismal and miserable it's been for PS2 owners in 2003. :rolleyes: I personally own seven of those titles and can account for how great they are. Try actually playing a game before talking crap about it guys.

Since neither of you two (you know who you are) even game on a PS2, why talk about it? You have no basis for bashing the PS2 since you don't game on it. I'm sure I speak for all PS2 owners when I say that we have had our fill of good & great games so far in 2003-thank you very much.</div>


Wow! And not a single game that's not a sequal. SLOWCOM 2 will be buried by Counter Strike, Silent Hill 3 will eventually be ported to Xbox, Castlevania will be annihalated by Ninja Gaiden, VF4...meh, i'll give you that one, Ratchet and Clank and Jak and Daxter? Why don't they just put all 4 of them in their own game, it wouldn't be tough...

Xbox has had a great year so far,.

[Bob-the-Fish]

I don't know what stores you all shop at, but I walked into Bestbuy today and there were quite a few more games I wanted on PS2 then I could see for my X-box.

I just got my X-box back 2 months ago. I've been looking around at the games selection and I am findind it quite lacking. Looking at the racks of games today, I realized there aren't really many X-box games I really want. Rainbow 6, Crimson Skies, RTCW, PDO and a couple others. But all of them, excluding PDO, really only appeal to me because of Live which I don't currently have. Plus their "platinum hits" collection is complete crap. I look at the Greatest Hits and I see older games I might actually want. But Blinx, Obi-wan, Dead to Rights! Come On! And why the freak isn't Halo a Platinum hit yet? With it's $50 price tag, it's probubly where M$ is making all its profits.

[no.1gamer]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


Wow! And not a single game that's not a sequal. SLOWCOM 2 will be buried by Counter Strike, Silent Hill 3 will eventually be ported to Xbox, Castlevania will be annihalated by Ninja Gaiden, VF4...meh, i'll give you that one, Ratchet and Clank and Jak and Daxter? Why don't they just put all 4 of them in their own game, it wouldn't be tough...

Xbox has had a great year so far,.</div>

Hey Tappy_Tibbons it's too bad Socom 2 has a 92.5%. So you just keep pretending to have more fun playing a game that isn't even out yet. I've played Socom 2 over broadband and it runs just fine so I don't know where the SLOWCOM comment came from? And to further prove your stupidity you bashed Gaming Geezer 78's list of games for the PS2 for being sequels yet you then compiled a list made entirely of sequels for the Xbox.

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Hey Tappy_Tibbons it's too bad Socom 2 has a 92.5%. So you just keep pretending to have more fun playing a game that isn't even out yet. I've played Socom 2 over broadband and it runs just fine so I don't know where the SLOWCOM comment came from? And to further prove your stupidity you bashed Gaming Geezer 78's list of games for the PS2 for being sequels yet you then compiled a list made entirely of sequels for the Xbox.</div>

Yea, lets see what he will say when Halo 2 comes out and get a high score? I wonder if it's right for anyone to belittle Halo2 just because it's a....sequel?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
2. XBOX sales come directly from unhappy PS2 users. If you have an XBOX and a PS2 and a game comes out, what version are you going to buy? Unless its an EA game with online content(for PS2) there is no question but to buy the XBOX version.

</div>


I can personally vouch for this one. The number one problem I have faced with a multiplatform game is the framerate. I haven't purchased a multiplat game for PS2 since Blood Omen 2 (everyone remembers how bad the framerate was) and even the PS2 Prince of Persia is said to have a little bit of unstable framerate. Unless youy consider the NFS: Hot Pursuit II or MGS2: Substance games, I think it is best to go for the Xbox version, or even the GC version (I said something nice about GC) if you have a choice.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Well, its a funny thing about that list Gamer78 posted. Only two games were above 90%(i really don't care for review scores, but he does so), one of those VF Evolution wasn't that actually released in 2002? I could be wrong. Then a lot of the other games, all are sequels by the way which is sad, were below 85%. And, i'm sorry, your gonna have a hard time telling me Castlevania and Dark Cloud2 are killer titles. You guys can talk about Halo2 being a sequel, but at least it will be truly be a separate game, and not a trumped up fake half-baked sequel. PS2 releases sequel upon sequel each year with little to no value added. Halo was a launch title, Halo2 will appear in 2004. If Halo was on PS2 we'd be on Halo4 by now. Ditto with PGR2, a true sequel, not like GT4 concept cars, or GT4:The Trucks.
Anyway, i'm not trying to rag on the PS2 games, because you are right I don't play them and don't want to. I'm just trying to judge how satisfied the individual consumer is with their respective software library. And I don't know about those tie-ratio's, they must include hardware, cables, and other accessories. Otherwise how can the PS2 with over 50 million US users be beat by the XBOX or tied by the XBOX in the top 10 and top 20? With a 40 million installed base lead over XBOX and GC, the PS2 should ideally hold down at the least 7/10 in the top 10. There is no way, XBOX should have 4 titles in the top 10, or any in the top 3. If you have 5:1 ratio advantage, but the console representing the one has 4 titles in the top 10, you can't tell me your console is having a good year. You can't defend that.
And the Gamecube's gambit may have moved some hardware, but we will see over the next few months whether they can move software other than their own occasional 1st party hit. And Gamer78, i'm not saying PS2 won't have any good games for the next 22 months, I just said they are due to release some good titles for the holidays, as are all the consoles. What i'm saying though is those long stretches between the holidays are going to be hard times. Less exclusives, longer release dates, less impressive games. Someone mentioned they couldn't find anything to play on XBOX, that kind of statement was hardly believable one or two years ago, is laughable now. You can find something to play, just amongst the exclusive titles on XBOX now, KOTOR, R6, Top Spin, Crimson Skies, Voodoo Vince none of those are PC now, except R6 which has been markedly improved.

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\"> And, i'm sorry, your gonna have a hard time telling me Castlevania and Dark Cloud2 are killer titles. You guys can talk about Halo2 being a sequel, but at least it will be truly be a separate game, and not a trumped up fake half-baked sequel ...
... Someone mentioned they couldn't find anything to play on XBOX, that kind of statement was hardly believable one or two years ago, is laughable now. You can find something to play, just amongst the exclusive titles on XBOX now, KOTOR, R6, Top Spin, Crimson Skies, Voodoo Vince none of those are PC now, except R6 which has been markedly improved.</div>

I've played both Dark Clouds. In defense for Sony, I'd have to give props for the second Dark Cloud. DC2 is significantly different than the first one, both in it's story (completely different) and it's gameplay. DC2 not made marked improvements over the shoddy aspects of the first one's gameplay. In addition, they've added the picture and create-your-own-item abilities. Also, the fighting is remarkedly improved and you now have the ability to use guns and melee weapons (and can switch on the fly). And it all adds up to over 70 hours of gameplay, I'm estimating. There's more to it, but I'd have to say that the second DC is definitely a seperate game from the first crappy one.

Now back to my normal, Xbot mode. What is most impressive about MS's Xbox lineup lately is the variety of good games that are becoming available. MS is really starting to squash those myths that they are a two-trick pony (FPS's and Racers) by offering a tennis game, flight game, solid RPG, platformer, etc.

As a note of interest .... Rainbow Six has been out for about 2 weeks, and already the game is showing more than 40,000 live users who've posted online scores.

[slade]

And I don't know about those tie-ratio's, they must include hardware, cables, and other accessories. Otherwise how can the PS2 with over 50 million US users be beat by the XBOX or tied by the XBOX in the top 10 and top 20?

There are a number of things wrong with your conclusion.

[Gaming Geezer 78]

Well, its a funny thing about that list Gamer78 posted. Only two games were above 90%(i really don't care for review scores, but he does so), one of those VF Evolution wasn't that actually released in 2002? I could be wrong. Then a lot of the other games, all are sequels by the way which is sad, were below 85%. And, i'm sorry, your gonna have a hard time telling me Castlevania and Dark Cloud2 are killer titles. You guys can talk about Halo2 being a sequel, but at least it will be truly be a separate game, and not a trumped up fake half-baked sequel. PS2 releases sequel upon sequel each year with little to no value added. Halo was a launch title, Halo2 will appear in 2004. If Halo was on PS2 we'd be on Halo4 by now. Ditto with PGR2, a true sequel, not like GT4 concept cars, or GT4:The Trucks.
Anyway, i'm not trying to rag on the PS2 games, because you are right I don't play them and don't want to. I'm just trying to judge how satisfied the individual consumer is with their respective software library. And I don't know about those tie-ratio's, they must include hardware, cables, and other accessories. Otherwise how can the PS2 with over 50 million US users be beat by the XBOX or tied by the XBOX in the top 10 and top 20? With a 40 million installed base lead over XBOX and GC, the PS2 should ideally hold down at the least 7/10 in the top 10. There is no way, XBOX should have 4 titles in the top 10, or any in the top 3. If you have 5:1 ratio advantage, but the console representing the one has 4 titles in the top 10, you can't tell me your console is having a good year. You can't defend that.
And the Gamecube's gambit may have moved some hardware, but we will see over the next few months whether they can move software other than their own occasional 1st party hit. And Gamer78, i'm not saying PS2 won't have any good games for the next 22 months, I just said they are due to release some good titles for the holidays, as are all the consoles. What i'm saying though is those long stretches between the holidays are going to be hard times. Less exclusives, longer release dates, less impressive games. Someone mentioned they couldn't find anything to play on XBOX, that kind of statement was hardly believable one or two years ago, is laughable now. You can find something to play, just amongst the exclusive titles on XBOX now, KOTOR, R6, Top Spin, Crimson Skies, Voodoo Vince none of those are PC now, except R6 which has been markedly improved.

Blah, blah, blah and....blah. That's what your posts amount to. You say yourself-you don't game on the PS2. So how can you even try to pass judgement on it or the games on it when you don't even play them? :rolleyes:

And wow-two Xbox exclusives with 90% or higher-Knights of the Old Republic and Panzer Dragoon. Oh wait...Knights is coming to PC soon. So much for that exclusive. :o

Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution was released about 3 months back. And let me get this straight: It's sad for PS2 sequels to score well but when a sequel is on Xbox it is great? Did it ever occur to you that Panzer Dragoon is the fourth game in the series? Or that DOA has a 3 at the end of it. Or how about your most anticipated Xbox titles coming out...Project Gotham 2, Halo 2, Deus Ex 2, Rainbow Six 3....uhm....shall I go on?

What's this GT4 trucks nonsense? Oh-so Sony released two inexpensive stand-alone titles based around GT3 and that makes them crap? Hmmm....sounds like you must think that Sega GT Online will be crap, right?

You are not trying to get a feel for how satisfied PS2 owners are, you are trying to start a flame war. Those died out a month or so ago with our "dearly departed." The reason you see so many Xbox games in the Top 20 sales is because:

A) Xbox is finally getting a steady flow of worthwhile titles.
B) PS2 has so many games to choose from, it divides the sales up over multiple titles.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

If I owned only a PS2 and had 1000$ to spend on games, I'd pick up:

Mr. Mosquito
Mr. Mosquito 2(import)
Rez
Amplitude

Then I'd have 800$ to go buy an XBox with so I could actually play some GOOD gameS!

[Angel, Forsaken]

<div class=\"smallfont\">If I owned only a PS2 and had 1000$ to spend on games, I'd pick up:

Mr. Mosquito
Mr. Mosquito 2(import)
Rez
Amplitude

Then I'd have 800$ to go buy an XBox with so I could actually play some GOOD gameS!</div> Maybe you should take that $800 and find a new hobby. If you can diss the Ps2's entire libary of games without even playing them, you really shouldn't call yourself a gamer.

[dafunkdoc]

<div class=\"smallfont\">If I owned only a PS2 and had 1000$ to spend on games, I'd pick up:

Mr. Mosquito
Mr. Mosquito 2(import)
Rez
Amplitude

Then I'd have 800$ to go buy an XBox with so I could actually play some GOOD gameS!</div>

WTF is Mr Mosquito? Outta thousands of games on PS2 and you picked Mr Mosquito? Come on Tappy fanboy, you honestly could have listed some more games then that.

[Renzatic Gear]

If I owned only a PS2 and had 1000$ to spend on games, I'd pick up:

Mr. Mosquito
Mr. Mosquito 2(import)
Rez
Amplitude

Then I'd have 800$ to go buy an XBox with so I could actually play some GOOD gameS!


Yeah, comeon Taps...I'm not even a huge PS2 fan and I can list at least 10 games off the top of my head that I'd like on it.

Dark Cloud 2
Kings Field: TAC
Ico
Silent Hill 2 & 3
Jax and Daxter
Wild Arms 3..and the remake (woot)
Wipeout Fusion
Gran Turismo 3
Suikoden 3

See? 2 seconds for me to come up with that list..and I didn't even have to think all that hard to come up with it.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Blah, blah, blah and....blah. That's what your posts amount to. You say yourself-you don't game on the PS2. So how can you even try to pass judgement on it or the games on it when you don't even play them? :rolleyes:

And wow-two Xbox exclusives with 90% or higher-Knights of the Old Republic and Panzer Dragoon. Oh wait...Knights is coming to PC soon. So much for that exclusive. :o

Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution was released about 3 months back. And let me get this straight: It's sad for PS2 sequels to score well but when a sequel is on Xbox it is great? Did it ever occur to you that Panzer Dragoon is the fourth game in the series? Or that DOA has a 3 at the end of it. Or how about your most anticipated Xbox titles coming out...Project Gotham 2, Halo 2, Deus Ex 2, Rainbow Six 3....uhm....shall I go on?

What's this GT4 trucks nonsense? Oh-so Sony released two inexpensive stand-alone titles based around GT3 and that makes them crap? Hmmm....sounds like you must think that Sega GT Online will be crap, right?

You are not trying to get a feel for how satisfied PS2 owners are, you are trying to start a flame war. Those died out a month or so ago with our "dearly departed." The reason you see so many Xbox games in the Top 20 sales is because:

A) Xbox is finally getting a steady flow of worthwhile titles.
B) PS2 has so many games to choose from, it divides the sales up over multiple titles.</div>


So VF3 Evolution was 3 months back, and that is what? Another worthless money grab on the PS2, that offers not much more value than the game that was released last year. Only a sucker would fall for moves like this. GT:Concept Cars, hey if you think it was great, good for you, you seem to love these 6month annual sequels, I guess they had guys like you in mind when they thought of ways to sucker people out of their money. The difference with XBOX sequels is that they are true sequels, fully developed games, with new engines, graphics, AI, and improvements. DOA3 was the first DOA game on XBOX, you don't see a DOA4 or a DOA3:Evolution released six months later to sucker people out of money. Same thing with PGR2 and Halo2. MS could have released a Halo sequel based on the old Halo engine last year, this is something PS2 or GC would have done, same thing with PGR2. The would have been successful and sold a lot. But would they have been true improvements on the franchises? No, they would only serve to water down the franchise and turn-off gamers, this is what is wrong with the PS2. And how am I starting a flame war, when I haven't flamed anyone. U are starting the flaming. Also, Deus Ex2, first time the franchise is on XBOX, and the first game was years ago on the PC, ditto with R6. How many Dynasty Warriors have you had on PS2, with the same old tired gameplay. How many Armored Cores? And your statement that PS2 sales are divided up are insane and ignorant. When GTA4 or GT4 releases, they will sell like hot cakes, so why hasn't any other PS2 exclusives sold well this year, cause they aren't that good.

Oh and XBOX has been outgunning PS2 in terms of quality console exclusive titles for the last two years. Last XMAS PS2 was killed in terms of quality titles, it looks even worse this year, and for the entire calendar XBOX has had no competition. What has been released on PS2 in Sept and October that are great exclusives on PS2? Nothing.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Blah, blah, blah and....blah. That's what your posts amount to. You say yourself-you don't game on the PS2. So how can you even try to pass judgement on it or the games on it when you don't even play them? :rolleyes:

And wow-two Xbox exclusives with 90% or higher-Knights of the Old Republic and Panzer Dragoon. Oh wait...Knights is coming to PC soon. So much for that exclusive. :o

Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution was released about 3 months back. And let me get this straight: It's sad for PS2 sequels to score well but when a sequel is on Xbox it is great? Did it ever occur to you that Panzer Dragoon is the fourth game in the series? Or that DOA has a 3 at the end of it. Or how about your most anticipated Xbox titles coming out...Project Gotham 2, Halo 2, Deus Ex 2, Rainbow Six 3....uhm....shall I go on?

What's this GT4 trucks nonsense? Oh-so Sony released two inexpensive stand-alone titles based around GT3 and that makes them crap? Hmmm....sounds like you must think that Sega GT Online will be crap, right?

You are not trying to get a feel for how satisfied PS2 owners are, you are trying to start a flame war. Those died out a month or so ago with our "dearly departed." The reason you see so many Xbox games in the Top 20 sales is because:

A) Xbox is finally getting a steady flow of worthwhile titles.
B) PS2 has so many games to choose from, it divides the sales up over multiple titles.</div>

Heres a little tidbit on Sony's success for this year.(btw,I am loving Here Comes The Pain.Good game)

PlayStation sales promising for holidays

SCEA announces that both the PlayStation and PS2 are enjoying increased sales as the holiday selling season gets under way.

Sony Computer Entertainment America has today announced that both its PlayStation and PlayStation 2 platforms are enjoying increased sales now that the holiday selling season has begun. Weekly sales of the PS2 console have increased by 40 percent in the last fortnight, while PSOne hardware sales have increased by 31 percent within the last month. SCEA's software sales are also strong at the moment, thanks to the recent releases of such titles as Jak II, EyeToy: Play, and SOCOM II: U.S. Navy SEALs.

"As PlayStation 2 continues to dominate all platforms, market trends also point to some interesting PSOne data as a result of competitive activity," said Jack Tretton, executive vice president for Sony Computer Entertainment America. "PSOne continues to defy the historic platform lifecycle with exceptionally strong sales as it enters its ninth year in the market. The PSOne is outselling both Xbox and GameCube at several major retail accounts this fall. For obvious reasons, we will be watching and analyzing the market very closely moving into the holiday season."

According to The NPD Group, SCEA experienced a 67 percent sales increase on its first-party titles between August and September this year, while third-party software sales were up 24 percent for the third quarter. Electronic Arts' Madden NFL 2004 was the most successful third-party game in the third quarter, racking up more than 2 million sales since it was released in August. One of the reasons for the game's popularity is that it features online play exclusive to the PS2, and with more than a million PS2 consoles now online, SCEA plans to have more than 50 online-enabled titles from around 20 publishers available to players this holiday season.

"We are extremely confident going into the upcoming holiday season as positive sales results illustrate our ability to successfully execute across all areas of our business," added Tretton. "Our success to date is indicative of the company's vision to deliver the best choice, value, and entertainment experience to the mass-market, and we look forward to continuing this momentum."

By Justin Calvert, GameSpot [POSTED: 11/11/03 07:11 AM]

[Darwin]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

" ... One of the reasons for the game's popularity is that it features online play exclusive to the PS2, and with more than a million PS2 consoles now online, SCEA plans to have more than 50 online-enabled titles from around 20 publishers available to players this holiday season.

[POSTED: 11/11/03 07:11 AM]</div>

Whoa ... I must have missed something. Since when is the PS2 going to have 50 online-enabled games by this holiday season? Sure could have fooled me. Yeah, it's believable ... but why isn't there any advertising? Why is this a big shock to an online gamer who owns a PS2? Sony must be doing a horrible job at getting this information out to the average gamer.

[dafunkdoc]

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So VF3 Evolution was 3 months back, and that is what? Another worthless money grab on the PS2, that offers not much more value than the game that was released last year. Only a sucker would fall for moves like this. GT:Concept Cars, hey if you think it was great, good for you, you seem to love these 6month annual sequels, I guess they had guys like you in mind when they thought of ways to sucker people out of their money. The difference with XBOX sequels is that they are true sequels, fully developed games, with new engines, graphics, AI, and improvements. DOA3 was the first DOA game on XBOX, you don't see a DOA4 or a DOA3:Evolution released six months later to sucker people out of money. Same thing with PGR2 and Halo2. MS could have released a Halo sequel based on the old Halo engine last year, this is something PS2 or GC would have done, same thing with PGR2. The would have been successful and sold a lot. But would they have been true improvements on the franchises? No, they would only serve to water down the franchise and turn-off gamers, this is what is wrong with the PS2. And how am I starting a flame war, when I haven't flamed anyone. U are starting the flaming. Also, Deus Ex2, first time the franchise is on XBOX, and the first game was years ago on the PC, ditto with R6. How many Dynasty Warriors have you had on PS2, with the same old tired gameplay. How many Armored Cores? And your statement that PS2 sales are divided up are insane and ignorant. When GTA4 or GT4 releases, they will sell like hot cakes, so why hasn't any other PS2 exclusives sold well this year, cause they aren't that good.

Oh and XBOX has been outgunning PS2 in terms of quality console exclusive titles for the last two years. Last XMAS PS2 was killed in terms of quality titles, it looks even worse this year, and for the entire calendar XBOX has had no competition. What has been released on PS2 in Sept and October that are great exclusives on PS2? Nothing.</div>

GT concept cars never made it to US, so why are we bringing this one up? VF3 evol, was repackaged for only a 20 spot. Basicly a greatest hits title with a bonus (NOT A SEQUEL). Sequels are sequels reguardless. Tell me how PG2 will be different compared to PG one, or MotoGP1 and MotoGP2 BIG difference there. :rolleyes: PS franchises have been around alot long than MS's, making them being prone to have alot more sequels. I'll give you Doom III as a total new and different game, seeing how it will about 10 years since Doom II. The rest of the Xbox sequels will be the same games with new levels and features, with couple of tweaks, and better graphics.

[Fragmastar]

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WTF is Mr Mosquito? Outta thousands of games on PS2 and you picked Mr Mosquito? Come on Tappy fanboy, you honestly could have listed some more games then that.</div>

Apparently, Tappy has been smoking too much crack