Uh oh maybe Rare was a mistake

[The Prince of Darkness]

I was just going over the EB Games upcoming release lists like I do every month and I noticed something. The last time I checked the list Kameo was listed with a date of 12/2/03 and now it has a date of 9/1/04. Wtf happened there. I always thought that Kameo was going to be the next Rare release. If that is the case there will be almost an entire year in between games that are released by Rare. Add to that the fact that the one Rare release is not exactly a blockbuster, and I am left scratching my head. Does anyone have any info on this one? Did they pull a Crimson Skies type of overhaul on Kameo? Are there a couple of other Rare titles coming out first or what? I just cannot imagine that there is not something going on that I was not aware of.

[mass]

I was just going over the EB Games upcoming release lists like I do every month and I noticed something. The last time I checked the list Kameo was listed with a date of 12/2/03 and now it has a date of 9/1/04. Wtf happened there. I always thought that Kameo was going to be the next Rare release. If that is the case there will be almost an entire year in between games that are released by Rare. Add to that the fact that the one Rare release is not exactly a blockbuster, and I am left scratching my head. Does anyone have any info on this one? Did they pull a Crimson Skies type of overhaul on Kameo? Are there a couple of other Rare titles coming out first or what? I just cannot imagine that there is not something going on that I was not aware of.

Kameo was delayed to 2004 a while back. Quite the delay when you consider that MS originally was advertising Kameo as a 2003 spring release. Conker's is up next. Won't make it out this year, though.

[no.1gamer]

Perhaps Rare realized that Kameo really sucked therefore they decided to delay it into oblivion. Maybe they want to save what little dignity they have left by not releasing 2 games in a row that suck.

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Kameo was delayed to 2004 a while back. Quite the delay when you consider that MS originally was advertising Kameo as a 2003 spring release. Conker's is up next. Won't make it out this year, though.</div>

Yeah, the December release date was a misprint I think.
I saw it too, on two different sites (one being GameStop.com), but was still was a little skeptical. No game gets bumped up six months!

September 2004 doesn't sound right either, though. I was pretty sure that it would be on shelves sometime between April thru June.

But Conker is next - prolly out in March.

[Gadfly2317]

Weren't there screenshots of Kameo on the GC box back when the GC launched? I mean, how much work could this game have left?

MS is really getting its money's worth with Rare. Nearly half a billion dollars for Ghoulies and an N64 remake; nothing else even on the horizon.

It doesn't appear that Nintendo was hurt at all by the Rare sale. All this talk about how rare carried the N64's jock strap. . . well, with all the third party games on GC and the virtual zero output at Rare, I don't see what Rare could have done to help the GC.

[thug]

I still it's too early to decide if it was the right move or not. They released one game, and it was a goofy, spooky kiddie game around Halloween. I don't understand why everyone was expecting so much out of this title. I don't think Rare thought it was going to do much.

We'll see what happens with Conker's and Kameo. They will probably be good games, but whether they'll catch on to the Xbox crowd is another question. I just don't think you can judge this yet.

I just laugh when ever I read someone writting that losing Rare hasn't effected Nintendo at all. I would agree, at present, it really hasn't. But I will also say that it will future. The present is fine, but the future is what it's all about. It's usually the same posters who say that, that also say all these third party publishers who will no longer support the Gamecube just make junk and are all in financial trouble. Once again, it's a bunch of junk titles now but it's only a matter of time before quality and much anticipated titles start getting canned (ie. Driver 3).

[MoNkEy MaN X]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I still it's too early to decide if it was the right move or not. They released one game, and it was a goofy, spooky kiddie game around Halloween. I don't understand why everyone was expecting so much out of this title. I don't think Rare thought it was going to do much.

We'll see what happens with Conker's and Kameo. They will probably be good games, but whether they'll catch on to the Xbox crowd is another question. I just don't think you can judge this yet.

I just laugh when ever I read someone writting that losing Rare hasn't effected Nintendo at all. I would agree, at present, it really hasn't. But I will also say that it will future. The present is fine, but the future is what it's all about. It's usually the same posters who say that, that also say all these third party publishers who will no longer support the Gamecube just make junk and are all in financial trouble. Once again, it's a bunch of junk titles now but it's only a matter of time before quality and much anticipated titles start getting canned (ie. Driver 3).</div>


If Rare thought their game wasn't going to do much, then why would they bother releasing it? It is a business after all. I think all company's release a game thinking it will do well and make money for them, if they didn't then they would bother making the game in the first place. Rare is just a low on the totem pole developer now, it isn't the 90's anymore.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I still it's too early to decide if it was the right move or not. They released one game, and it was a goofy, spooky kiddie game around Halloween. I don't understand why everyone was expecting so much out of this title. I don't think Rare thought it was going to do much.

We'll see what happens with Conker's and Kameo. They will probably be good games, but whether they'll catch on to the Xbox crowd is another question. I just don't think you can judge this yet.

I just laugh when ever I read someone writting that losing Rare hasn't effected Nintendo at all. I would agree, at present, it really hasn't. But I will also say that it will future. The present is fine, but the future is what it's all about. It's usually the same posters who say that, that also say all these third party publishers who will no longer support the Gamecube just make junk and are all in financial trouble. Once again, it's a bunch of junk titles now but it's only a matter of time before quality and much anticipated titles start getting canned (ie. Driver 3).</div>

The future? The future is right now. The Rare purchase is old news; and its time to perform. Their first game is mediocre. Who cares if it was a light hearted kid oriented game. So is Mario Kart. I love those kind of games. Ghoulies isn't terrible. . . I don't think Rare could do a terrible game--but seriously, this is it, and not much for the next year either. So if you are talking future, you are talking Xbox 2 future.

On your other point, the GC has gotten a lot of really good third party titles. It's lost some crap support, but its also losing some good games too. It was unfortunate to see the next Legacy of Kain game coming only to Xbox and Ps2. It looks like it will be a good game. The last one kinda stunk, but this one looks great. I really do think the problem with third parties is that there are many great first party titles, and that a huge number of gamers own more than one system. People buy a Nintendo these days to play Nintendo. I bought third party games on Nintnendo, but apparently I was a minority; and now that I have an xbox, many of the third party games I pick up will be on it (Prince of Persia), unless they look identical, in which case I prefer the Wavebird control.

[Gaming Geezer 78]

Perhaps Rare realized that Kameo really sucked therefore they decided to delay it into oblivion. Maybe they want to save what little dignity they have left by not releasing 2 games in a row that suck.

"Two games in a row that suck?" Is that what you said g@mer? Tell me, how much of Grabbed by the Ghoulies have you played? Can you legitimately say to everyone on this board that you have first-hand knowledge of this game and how good or bad it is? Tell me, since when is an average score of 73% "sucking?"

You see, my wife and I are currently in the 40th room of Grabbed by the Ghoulies and have loved every minute of it so far. The game exhibits Rare's usual flair and cracks us up with enemies like "The Imp" (play on the "gimp" from Pulp Fiction), Ninja Imps, Vampire Chickens and Mummies that attack and go "Unka, Unka!" And little things like pictures of characters from Banjo Kazooie adorn the walls in different areas as a nod to past Rare titles.

As far as Kameo having a 3rd quarter 2004 release date now, I am not surprised and fully expected this. Rare on full output levels usually puts out two games a year-one every six months. Conker Live & Uncut is scheduled for a March-April 2004 release putting it 5-6 months after Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Following this release patern, August-September 2004 for Kameo sounds about right. Kameo is scheduled to be followed up by Perfect Dark Zero.

If Kameo was still scheduled to be a Gamecube title, you would be singing it's praises g@mer. Only a lame-ass hater would bash a game simply because of the platform it is on. The major complaints I have read about from "professional" reviewers is that the controls are difficult. Gee, I think they couldn't be easier. L & R move the camera. The left thumbstick moves the character. The right thumbstick attacks. Light flicks on the right stick are your standard punches and attacks while fully tilting and holding the stick performs elbow drops, super punches and uses your special weapons among other things. Easy as pie to execute. You just need to be smart enough to move the right stick in the direction of the enemy you want to attack. Boy, that is overly-complicated. :rolleyes:

[Gaming Geezer 78]

The future? The future is right now. The Rare purchase is old news; and its time to perform. Their first game is mediocre. Who cares if it was a light hearted kid oriented game. So is Mario Kart. I love those kind of games. Ghoulies isn't terrible. . . I don't think Rare could do a terrible game--but seriously, this is it, and not much for the next year either. So if you are talking future, you are talking Xbox 2 future.

On your other point, the GC has gotten a lot of really good third party titles. It's lost some crap support, but its also losing some good games too. It was unfortunate to see the next Legacy of Kain game coming only to Xbox and Ps2. It looks like it will be a good game. The last one kinda stunk, but this one looks great. I really do think the problem with third parties is that there are many great first party titles, and that a huge number of gamers own more than one system. People buy a Nintendo these days to play Nintendo. I bought third party games on Nintnendo, but apparently I was a minority; and now that I have an xbox, many of the third party games I pick up will be on it (Prince of Persia), unless they look identical, in which case I prefer the Wavebird control.


I don't personally consider Grabbed by the Ghoulies to be mediocre. My wife and I have been really enjoying it and have reached the 40th room. Have you played it Gadfly? Give it a rent, it takes a little getting used to the controls but it just keeps my wife and I going. I especially love the dance floor with the mummy DJ spinning records. LMAO!

Rare's schedule looks like this:
Grabbed by the Ghoulies: October 2003
Conker Live & Uncut: March-April 2004
Kameo-Elements of Power: September-October 2004
Perfect Dark Zero: March-April 2005
"untitled" kart racer: TBD 2005

Rare is good for two games a year as they were on the N64. It's not like Xbox is dependent on Rare titles for 1st party games. Fasa studios is putting out a game a year so far-MechAssault last year and Crimson Skies this year. They have several development teams making great games.

[no.1gamer]

<div class=\"smallfont\">"Two games in a row that suck?" Is that what you said g@mer? Tell me, how much of Grabbed by the Ghoulies have you played? Can you legitimately say to everyone on this board that you have first-hand knowledge of this game and how good or bad it is? Tell me, since when is an average score of 73% "sucking?"

You see, my wife and I are currently in the 40th room of Grabbed by the Ghoulies and have loved every minute of it so far. The game exhibits Rare's usual flair and cracks us up with enemies like "The Imp" (play on the "gimp" from Pulp Fiction), Ninja Imps, Vampire Chickens and Mummies that attack and go "Unka, Unka!" And little things like pictures of characters from Banjo Kazooie adorn the walls in different areas as a nod to past Rare titles.

As far as Kameo having a 3rd quarter 2004 release date now, I am not surprised and fully expected this. Rare on full output levels usually puts out two games a year-one every six months. Conker Live & Uncut is scheduled for a March-April 2004 release putting it 5-6 months after Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Following this release patern, August-September 2004 for Kameo sounds about right. Kameo is scheduled to be followed up by Perfect Dark Zero.

If Kameo was still scheduled to be a Gamecube title, you would be singing it's praises g@mer. Only a lame-ass hater would bash a game simply because of the platform it is on. The major complaints I have read about from "professional" reviewers is that the controls are difficult. Gee, I think they couldn't be easier. L & R move the camera. The left thumbstick moves the character. The right thumbstick attacks. Light flicks on the right stick are your standard punches and attacks while fully tilting and holding the stick performs elbow drops, super punches and uses your special weapons among other things. Easy as pie to execute. You just need to be smart enough to move the right stick in the direction of the enemy you want to attack. Boy, that is overly-complicated. :rolleyes:</div>


Ok, ok maybe this game doesn't actually "suck." And no I haven't played it. But the score of 74% is average. While this score may give some crappy 3rd party developers bragging rights, it is downright shameful for the gaming masterminds at Rare. Do you see what I'm saying? I just don't want to see Rare become another average developer popping out sub-par titles. But unfortunately that's what I am seeing.

[sjsharky]

<div class=\"smallfont\">"Two games in a row that suck?" Is that what you said g@mer? Tell me, how much of Grabbed by the Ghoulies have you played? Can you legitimately say to everyone on this board that you have first-hand knowledge of this game and how good or bad it is? Tell me, since when is an average score of 73% "sucking?"

You see, my wife and I are currently in the 40th room of Grabbed by the Ghoulies and have loved every minute of it so far. The game exhibits Rare's usual flair and cracks us up with enemies like "The Imp" (play on the "gimp" from Pulp Fiction), Ninja Imps, Vampire Chickens and Mummies that attack and go "Unka, Unka!" And little things like pictures of characters from Banjo Kazooie adorn the walls in different areas as a nod to past Rare titles.

As far as Kameo having a 3rd quarter 2004 release date now, I am not surprised and fully expected this. Rare on full output levels usually puts out two games a year-one every six months. Conker Live & Uncut is scheduled for a March-April 2004 release putting it 5-6 months after Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Following this release patern, August-September 2004 for Kameo sounds about right. Kameo is scheduled to be followed up by Perfect Dark Zero.

If Kameo was still scheduled to be a Gamecube title, you would be singing it's praises g@mer. Only a lame-ass hater would bash a game simply because of the platform it is on. The major complaints I have read about from "professional" reviewers is that the controls are difficult. Gee, I think they couldn't be easier. L & R move the camera. The left thumbstick moves the character. The right thumbstick attacks. Light flicks on the right stick are your standard punches and attacks while fully tilting and holding the stick performs elbow drops, super punches and uses your special weapons among other things. Easy as pie to execute. You just need to be smart enough to move the right stick in the direction of the enemy you want to attack. Boy, that is overly-complicated. :rolleyes:</div>

Ditto. Currently searching for the riddle. I really like this game also. At first, I thought it was kind of easy, but as you get further into the game, it definitely puts up some challenges. Some rooms are easier than others, but I have had my hands full in more than a couple.

As for the controls, smash tv/robotron, anyone? anyone? If these controls suck, then so do the controls to these two classic games, as the are exactly the same, move the player with one joystick, attack with the other. Brain surgery, I guess? Cant wait to get back to the game and tonites the night, as I have been working too much the past couple of weeks.

I really enjoy the monster models. My first thoughts were "Oh so there are these little imps and some mummy and zombies, ok", then came the vampire chickens, ninja imps(hi-ya), and pirates, just to mention a few, as there are many others, and I was hooked. Definitely has that Rare feeling. Plus the comicbook storyline is fun to follow, IMO.

Bottom line: the game is fun and the music is fun too. Graaaabbed by the Ghoulies, na, na.....Graaaabbed by the Ghoulies, na, na. If you are looking for a good ole fashioned fun game, you could do much worse. I would give GbtG more than a 73%, maybe an 84%, but thats my opinion.

[no.1gamer]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


Ok, ok maybe this game doesn't actually "suck." And no I haven't played it. But the score of 74% is average. While this score may give some crappy 3rd party developers bragging rights, it is downright shameful for the gaming masterminds at Rare. Do you see what I'm saying? I just don't want to see Rare become another average developer popping out sub-par titles. But unfortunately that's what I am seeing.</div>

Similar to how Rogue Squadron 3 "only" has a 75.5%. This doesn't dismiss the game as crappy but you have to admit that you're dissapointed with the outcome.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I don't personally consider Grabbed by the Ghoulies to be mediocre. My wife and I have been really enjoying it and have reached the 40th room. Have you played it Gadfly? Give it a rent, it takes a little getting used to the controls but it just keeps my wife and I going. I especially love the dance floor with the mummy DJ spinning records. LMAO!

Rare's schedule looks like this:
Grabbed by the Ghoulies: October 2003
Conker Live & Uncut: March-April 2004
Kameo-Elements of Power: September-October 2004
Perfect Dark Zero: March-April 2005
"untitled" kart racer: TBD 2005

Rare is good for two games a year as they were on the N64. It's not like Xbox is dependent on Rare titles for 1st party games. Fasa studios is putting out a game a year so far-MechAssault last year and Crimson Skies this year. They have several development teams making great games.</div>

Ghoulies is on my "to rent" list, but I've been really busy with Crimson Skies, Voodoo Vince, and several other games. So, I can't necessarily judge the game personally. I enjoy many games that I would call "mediocre." In Rare's case, I hold them to really high standards. The reviews are not that great (lower 70's.) Take PNO3 for example; another mediocre game in the low 70's. I played this game. It was pretty cool, and I enjoyed it. Just because it was repetitious, kind of going from room to room doing the same types of things didn't mean it should be overlooked altogher by fans of shooter games. Same thing with Ghoulies probably--enjoyable little repetitious game with that signature Rare humor. But I don't think anyone is going to make the point that it was a stand-out title.

And it NEEDED to be. The Rare purchase was a big deal, and LOT of money. I think it is pretty valid to question the wisdom of the Rare purchase from a business point of view. Will it benefit the xbox much at all? Seriously, how well will an N64 remake do? I'm looking fwd to Conker, but since it is a cartoony rerun, its questionable. We know nothing of how good Kameo next xmas is really going to be, and then perfect Dark 2005. . . well, they might as well bump it to Xbox2 launch because Halo III will not be ready if the new systems land in 2005. I just can't fathom how MS can recoup 365 million dollars from this developer. Rare needs to do something really amazing, and I just don't see how Ghoulies, Conker, PDO and Diddy Kong Racing 2 qualify. They'd better slip a killer unanounced title in there somewhere.

[shogun]

The sad thing is that the GBTG, Kameo and all of Rare's other games weren't thrown in for free as part of the $365 million deal. Now that Rare is a 1st party developer, MS has to foot all the costs of development and marketing these titles as well. Getting out of the red on this deal looks a long ways off...

Ironically, Nintendo may have gotten the long end of the stick, since they can use that green to foster relationships with Sega, Namco Capcom and such...

[Glockstar]

<div class=\"smallfont\">The sad thing is that the GBTG, Kameo and all of Rare's other games weren't thrown in for free as part of the $365 million deal. Now that Rare is a 1st party developer, MS has to foot all the costs of development and marketing these titles as well. Getting out of the red on this deal looks a long ways off...

Ironically, Nintendo may have gotten the long end of the stick, since they can use that green to foster relationships with Sega, Namco Capcom and such...</div>

Or spend it on their on-line program right?
:rolleyes:

I'm not arguing with you here - because yeah, that is what you'd think they'd do (repair their relationships with all of the other game developers and publishers that they've ticked off over the years).

But they haven't - and they're not! They're investing more in their GBA-to-GC Link-tivity! GBTG may not be much, but I'd still rather have it (and 3 more like it!) than more of the old N's stupid toys!

[shogun]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Or spend it on their on-line program right?
:rolleyes:

I'm not arguing with you here - because yeah, that is what you'd think they'd do (repair their relationships with all of the other game developers and publishers that they've ticked off over the years).

But they haven't - and they're not! They're investing more in their GBA-to-GC Link-tivity! GBTG may not be much, but I'd still rather have it (and 3 more like it!) than more of the old N's stupid toys!</div>


Uh-huh. Last time I checked, MS wasn't doing any joint-developing with Sega, Konami and Namco. Perhaps Capcom's next 5 games will be XBox-exclusives right? And maybe Square will give XBox an exclusive RPG...Seems to me like it's Nintendo making wise use of their money.

You're right about GTBG not being much at all...I'd rather have F-Zero GX and Starfox 2 over that garbage. :D

[no.1gamer]

<div class=\"smallfont\">The sad thing is that the GBTG, Kameo and all of Rare's other games weren't thrown in for free as part of the $365 million deal. Now that Rare is a 1st party developer, MS has to foot all the costs of development and marketing these titles as well. Getting out of the red on this deal looks a long ways off...

Ironically, Nintendo may have gotten the long end of the stick, since they can use that green to foster relationships with Sega, Namco Capcom and such...</div>

Rare is actually a "2nd" party developer for the Xbox. They were a 2nd party developer for the N64 as well. Nintendo is a 1st party developer. The only games Microsoft develops is like Microsoft flight simulator and other $hitty games like that. Microsoft just publishes the games they don't actually design them (example Halo).

This is what I've been led to believe anyways. Maybe I'm wrong. Someone who knows for sure please elaborate further.

[Whaxx]

Someone said something, I think it was "Thug" said something about Rare catching the attention of the Xbox crowd with "Kameo", I really have no intention to pick up that game, to satisfy the "Xbox Crowd", I think that its a good idea for Rare to release Perfect Dark Zero ASAP and push back a few of their other titles, it's what Rares good at, great FPS they released two incredible games in a row of the same genre,(FPS), thats yet to be done by any companie, though it seems Bungie will do that this spring, still, just think, if Rare released PD: zero the same time Halo 2 came out I don't think anyone with an Xbox would leave their house for a damn week!

[yacobschlomo]

<div class=\"smallfont\">&lt;div class=\&quot;smallfont\&quot;&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

Rare is actually a &quot;2nd&quot; party developer for the Xbox. They were a 2nd party developer for the N64 as well. Nintendo is a 1st party developer. The only games Microsoft develops is like Microsoft flight simulator and other $hitty games like that. Microsoft just publishes the games they don't actually design them (example Halo).

This is what I've been led to believe anyways. Maybe I'm wrong. Someone who knows for sure please elaborate further.</div>

Here’s what I understand from everything that I have read.

A second party developer is part owned by a specific console producing company but is not financially supported by that company. The 2nd party developer has creative control over their product, but the parent company, which will publish the product, may have some input (in the case of Nintendo, a lot of input).

Nintendo had a 49% (not sure if it was actually 49%, but it was less than 50%) share in Rare. The Stamper brothers held the majority of the shares. The Stamper brothers held the controlling stake in the company. Therefore, Rare was considered a second party developer.

Microsoft purchased Nintendo’s shares and the remaining 51% from the Stamper brothers. Nintendo got about $180 million from the deal, which is about the same amount they had to pay to the EU in fines for monopolistic practices (could this be one of the reasons why they decided to sell off Rare?). Microsoft now owns 100 percent of Rare. Therefore, Rare is a first party developer for MS.

MS gets games in the same way that Nintendo gets games, by making deals with other developers and by developing them in-house. Nintendo, just like MS, may decide to acquire new developers in order to strengthen their first party lineup. They may make deals with third party developers for exclusive games. You just see MS doing more of it now because they just got into the console business and because everything they do seems to get more attention. Nintendo has acquired some new developers recently, but we haven’t heard much about it. MS already had quite a few in-house developers, but they were all PC oriented. So they went out and got some console game developers along with a few more top PC development teams. Sony did the same thing when they first entered the console gaming market with the PSX.

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
If Rare thought their game wasn't going to do much, then why would they bother releasing it? It is a business after all. I think all company's release a game thinking it will do well and make money for them, if they didn't then they would bother making the game in the first place. Rare is just a low on the totem pole developer now, it isn't the 90's anymore.</div>

All I was saying is that, Rare had to of known GBG would only interest a particular group of people. I doubt they expected it to sell like some of their popular N64 games did. Do the makers of Barbie's Wild Horse Adventures expect to sell millions of copies? Probably not but the game gets made anyway. GBG is not a game like KOTOR that attracted non-RPG gamers or Halo which attracted non-FPS gamers.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Perfect Dark 0 BETTER own.

[trebor]

I played a demo of Grabbed by Ghoulies and here were my initial impressions...

It was the prettiest thing I've personally seen on the Xbox. That is the one good thing I have to say about it. The gameplay was highly repetitive, and dare I say it, boring as hell. The control scheme is *horrible*. If this is the best Rare has got, then they have seriously lost whatever made them great in the N64 era.

So to sum up - gorgeous graphics with shallow gameplay. Perfect for the typical Xboy audience - except for the lack of jiggly skanks and buckets of gore.

[slade]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

All I was saying is that, Rare had to of known GBG would only interest a particular group of people. I doubt they expected it to sell like some of their popular N64 games did. Do the makers of Barbie's Wild Horse Adventures expect to sell millions of copies? Probably not but the game gets made anyway. GBG is not a game like KOTOR that attracted non-RPG gamers or Halo which attracted non-FPS gamers.</div>

So, basically you're saying that the game was a knee jerk reaction by Rare when they heard everybody questioning their whereabouts.

[sjsharky]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I played a demo of Grabbed by Ghoulies and here were my initial impressions...

It was the prettiest thing I've personally seen on the Xbox. That is the one good thing I have to say about it. The gameplay was highly repetitive, and dare I say it, boring as hell. The control scheme is *horrible*. If this is the best Rare has got, then they have seriously lost whatever made them great in the N64 era.

So to sum up - gorgeous graphics with shallow gameplay. Perfect for the typical Xboy audience - except for the lack of jiggly skanks and buckets of gore.</div>

You might want to look into a career as a "professional" reviewer since you were able to review the game from a demo, like it seems many of these so-called pros seem to do.

Seeing as how GbtG is basically a beat'em up game, it is inherently repetitive by nature. However, there are different weapons to use and different scenarios presented to clear a particular room, making for varied tactics to complete a room. I have been challenged in numerous rooms and find the story/style quite entertaining on a, dare I say it, CUTE, level. Something you, as a NINTENDO FANBOY, should appreciate!

[trebor]

You might want to look into a career as a "professional" reviewer since you were able to review the game from a demo, like it seems many of these so-called pros seem to do.

Seeing as how GbtG is basically a beat'em up game, it is inherently repetitive by nature. However, there are different weapons to use and different scenarios presented to clear a particular room, making for varied tactics to complete a room. I have been challenged in numerous rooms and find the story/style quite entertaining on a, dare I say it, CUTE, level. Something you, as a NINTENDO FANBOY, should appreciate!

Hey, I have a wild idea! How about you are entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to my own.

If I don't like GbtG and you do....tough ****. If I think that GbtG is an insipid waste of time, with poor controls, then too damn bad if you don't like what I have to say. It's also too damn bad for you that most of the real "professional" reviewers would agree with me over you, hence the 73% average on Gamerankings. Deal with it.

Also, is it not the point of a DEMO to be a DEMONSTRATION of a game? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that if you really disliked a demo of a game you probably wouldn't like the full build of the game either?

[sjsharky]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Hey, I have a wild idea! How about you are entitled to your opinions and I'm entitled to my own.

If I don't like GbtG and you do....tough ****. If I think that GbtG is an insipid waste of time, with poor controls, then too damn bad if you don't like what I have to say. It's also too damn bad for you that most of the real "professional" reviewers would agree with me over you, hence the 73% average on Gamerankings. Deal with it.

Also, is it not the point of a DEMO to be a DEMONSTRATION of a game? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that if you really disliked a demo of a game you probably wouldn't like the full build of the game either?</div>

Ouch! Sorry to upset you so. Are we having a bad day? Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. Seeing as how, I was trying to make some points about a game you havent even played and you decided to jump all over my ass :( , my opinion is you are a jackass.

eof

[Gadfly2317]

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Ouch! Sorry to upset you so. Are we having a bad day? Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I. Seeing as how, I was trying to make some points about a game you havent even played and you decided to jump all over my ass :( , my opinion is you are a jackass.

eof</div>

Woo Hoo!!! finally, a spark of life on the board, though I never would have imagined the merely adequate gameplay of Ghoulies would have inspired the return to actual name calling at system's wars! Hey, it's all opinions; if you think someone's opinions make them look like a jackass, call it like you see it.

But here's some more toasty-flame opinions of Rare. They were considered great at one time. Yet they were "micromanaged" by ninendo, given franchise characters like Donkey Kong to work with. Now they are free from the evil Nintendo. And they can be their true selves with MS. They can milk old code with Conker, and put out pretty but repetive fluff like Ghoulies. Oh, but PDO, which is unnaounced and not even to the point of existant screenshots is some salavation to the Xbox, a system sorely lacking in FPS.

Well, here's what it REALLY looks like:

Rare without Nintendo is like:

Peanut butter without jelly.
Pizza without cheese.
Bush without Cheney.
Nachos without beer.
David Lee Roth without Eddie.
David Spade without Chris Farley.
Beer without Alcohol
Sex without orgasm
Iraq without WMD (oh wait, that never was a thing.)
TV without a remote
Coke without carbonation
Citizen Kane without Rosebud
Laverne without Shirley
Robin Williams without cocaine.
Dennis Miller without snappy similies

And so on. PROVE ME WRONG RARE. Bring back your glory days of games that pushed the edge of console gamers experiences. The graphical breakthrough that was your SNES Donkey Kong. The FPS breakthrough that was Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. The surreal and snappy humor that was Conker. IF you have any new ideas left, develop them, damnit. Another collect-athon or redundant beat-em up, or cookie cutter FPS; damn. I don't know what the hell MS was thinking they were going ot get for half a billion dollars, but it had to be more than this.

Think I'm wrong? Look at what a little known Texas developer turned into with some guidance from the visionaries at Nintendo: Retro's Metroid Prime. . . . leave's me asking Rare Who? Silicon Knights working with Nintendo bringing us Eternal Darkness? Damn. . . I think Nintendo smelled fresh talent to work with and has done great. Nothing Rare is coming out with would have helped Nintendo at all.

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Perhaps Rare realized that Kameo really sucked therefore they decided to delay it into oblivion. Maybe they want to save what little dignity they have left by not releasing 2 games in a row that suck.</div>

Both of those games were high profile GC titles and they both didnt fare so well.But Nintendo came back with Mario Kart and F-Zero.I wouldnt be too hard on Rare.If Capcom can rebound with games like Capcom vs.SNK2 online and Viewtiful Joe then so can Rare in the near future.

The future indeed is STILL very promising for them and MS. A Killer Instinct 3 or another Perfect Dark on the Xbox indeed would be a very tasty additions for Xbox owners.Especially when you add the possibilities of Xbox live to it.Games like F-Zero and Mario Kart would've been that much more if Nintendo could've put those games online.

Now they're just mere party games.

[Gadfly2317]

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Both of those games were high profile GC titles and they both didnt fare so well.But Nintendo came back with Mario Kart and F-Zero.I wouldnt be too hard on Rare.If Nintendo can rebound so can Rare.

The future indeed is STILL very promising for them and MS. A Killer Instinct 3 or a Perfect Dark on the Xbox indeed would be a very tasty addition.Especially when you add the possibilities of Xbox live to it.</div>

Please. . . .I had totally forgotten just exactly what ignorance was, not having seen much around here lately.

"If Nintendo can rebound so can Rare?" Hey, NINTENDO DIDN'T DEVELOP PNO3 OR ROGUE SQUADRON. That was Capcom and Factor 5. Why can't you ever say anything that makes sense?

Why didn't you say Look at PNO3 by Capcom. . .it was crap, but then they Capcom came back and released the brilliant Viewtiful Joe. If Capcom can come back, so can Rare." That would have made sense.

please please please remove that ugly ugly gigantice eyesore of a banner from the bottom of your posts. If you could do that one act of kindness to us all, it would help make your posts a little less irritating.

["The Game"Evolution]

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Please. . . .I had totally forgotten just exactly what ignorance was, not having seen much around here lately.

"If Nintendo can rebound so can Rare?" Hey, NINTENDO DIDN'T DEVELOP PNO3 OR ROGUE SQUADRON. That was Capcom and Factor 5. Why can't you ever say anything that makes sense?

Why didn't you say Look at PNO3 by Capcom. . .it was crap, but then they Capcom came back and released the brilliant Viewtiful Joe. If Capcom can come back, so can Rare." That would have made sense.

please please please remove that ugly ugly gigantice eyesore of a banner from the bottom of your posts. If you could do that one act of kindness to us all, it would help make your posts a little less irritating.</div>

Capcom came back long before VJ was released on the GC.Thats for sure.

Yes if Capcom can come back so can Rare.If Ubi Soft Can Come back so can Rare.

And I am so sorry you dont like my banner.(LOL yeah right.)

[Gadfly2317]

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Capcom came back long before VJ was released on the GC.Thats for sure.

Yes if Capcom can come back so can Rare.If Ubi Soft Can Come back so can Rare.

And I am so sorry you dont like my banner.(LOL yeah right.)</div>

What do you mean Capcom came back long before VJ was released on GC? All you did was talk about how japanese developers aren't that great anymore. . .remember "crapcom" and how you thrashed on PNO3; everyone yawned at DMC2, and wasn't Dino Crisis 3 by Capcom? So please, tell me, what was Capcom's excellent "come back" before VJ? Besides Resident Evil 0 on GC I mean.

Capcom had a string of stinkers and then released the A+ Viewtiful Joe on GC. That's the story. I'm interested in hearing you re-write it.

["The Game"Evolution]

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What do you mean Capcom came back long before VJ was released on GC? All you did was talk about how japanese developers aren't that great anymore. . .remember "crapcom" and how you thrashed on PNO3; everyone yawned at DMC2, and wasn't Dino Crisis 3 by Capcom? So please, tell me, what was Capcom's excellent "come back" before VJ? Besides Resident Evil 0 on GC I mean.

Capcom had a string of stinkers and then released the A+ Viewtiful Joe on GC. That's the story. I'm interested in hearing you re-write it.</div>

Yes Capcom has came back long before VJ was around.Yes games like Resident Evil,Zero,Steel Battalion,Capcom vs.SNK2 online,Mega Man Network Transmission;etc.VJ is its first sleeper hit of the year.Yes.But lets face it:P.N.03 didnt deliver.Neither did Dino Crisis 3.And yes DMC2 was terrible.(mainly because the developer that made the original DMC didnt do that one.But he is coming back for DMC3.Thank god)

Now back to the Japanese thing.I've said on many occassions that I felt that the Japanese had fickle taste when it came to gaming.But I have never said that japanese developers arent great anymore.You have me confused with someone else.I totally respect Japanese game developers.Totally.

[trebor]

Both of those games were high profile GC titles and they both didnt fare so well.But Nintendo came back with Mario Kart and F-Zero.I wouldnt be too hard on Rare.If Capcom can rebound with games like Capcom vs.SNK2 online and Viewtiful Joe then so can Rare in the near future.

The future indeed is STILL very promising for them and MS. A Killer Instinct 3 or another Perfect Dark on the Xbox indeed would be a very tasty additions for Xbox owners.Especially when you add the possibilities of Xbox live to it.Games like F-Zero and Mario Kart would've been that much more if Nintendo could've put those games online.

Now they're just mere party games.

So...if Nintendo makes sequels to older Nintendo games, or just uses their own franchises at all, it's bad and "been there done that".

But if M$ makes sequels to old Nintendo games it's good, or even "tasty additions for Xbox owners"?

Hmmm...

Hey Game, have you ever heard of the word "contradiction" before?

Hmmm...

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">So...if Nintendo makes sequels to older Nintendo games, or just uses their own franchises at all, it's bad and "been there done that".

But if M$ makes sequels to old Nintendo games it's good, or even "tasty additions for Xbox owners"?

Hmmm...

Hey Game, have you ever heard of the word "contradiction" before?

Hmmm...</div>

First off lets tell it like it is shall we? When the NES was around alot of the franchises that we love and cherish today started on the NES.Contra,Mega Man,Metal Gear,Metroid,Zelda,Mario,Castlvania,Ghost N'Goblins;etc.

Ever since then where have we seen these games? On The Sony Playstation and the PS2.The N64 didnt have any of these games. And most of those classics never made it to the GC.Other than its been about Zelda,Mario,and Metroid for the GC.Mega Man Network Transmission and the upcoming MGS is bringing up the rear.

Besides lets take Ninja Gaiden thats coming out for the Xbox for example.Its been over about 15 years since the last one appeared on the NES.And indeed its going to be a kick ass remake of the original classic.Alot of what made the old one famous will be in the game along with alot of new things.Plus,all three of the NES games of Ninja Gaiden will be added to beef up the replay value of the game as well.

Besides alot of reviewers has been saying alot of the games on the GC makes them feel like been there,done that.Its not just me.

Nintendo really should showcase things like that.They did it with Metroid with the GBA and with Animal Crossing.This is something they should include with every classic thats brought to the GC.Dont you think?

[trebor]

First off lets tell it like it is shall we? When the NES was around alot of the franchises that we love and cherish today started on the NES.Contra,Mega Man,Metal Gear,Metroid,Zelda,Mario,Castlvania,Ghost N'Goblins;etc.

Ever since then where have we seen these games? On The Sony Playstation and the PS2.The N64 didnt have any of these games. And most of those classics never made it to the GC.Other than its been about Zelda,Mario,and Metroid for the GC.Mega Man Network Transmission and the upcoming MGS is bringing up the rear.

Besides lets take Ninja Gaiden thats coming out for the Xbox for example.Its been over about 15 years since the last one appeared on the NES.And indeed its going to be a kick ass remake of the original classic.Alot of what made the old one famous will be in the game along with alot of new things.Plus,all three of the NES games of Ninja Gaiden will be added to beef up the replay value of the game as well.

Besides alot of reviewers has been saying alot of the games on the GC makes them feel like been there,done that.Its not just me.

Nintendo really should showcase things like that.They did it with Metroid with the GBA and with Animal Crossing.This is something they should include with every classic thats brought to the GC.Dont you think?

Okay, let's bring some perspective back into this debate - were talking about Rare here, and were talking about Rare games that made their debut on the N64, specifically Perfect Dark and Conker, which will "redeem" the purchase of Rare by M$ in the hearts of Xboyz®.

Now let me make a analogy, if you can handle it, Ocarina of Time (N64) was the predecessor to Wind Waker (Gamecube). Wind Waker has been bashed around this forum for being too much like OoT - because of having the same control scheme, people felt it was just "more of the same".

Now, what makes you think that the same won't be said about Perfect Dark and Conker?