National Football League (NFL) 2008

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Alright, I want to start this thread with a statement and a question.

Statement: The NY Giants suck.

Question: What's going on with Brett Farve and Green Bay?

[Fivespot]

Who knows what the hell is up with that whole Favre/Packers thing. It's mostly rumor and speculation at this point. I'm disappointed with Favre.

[Glockstar]

I'm disappointed with Favre.

Thank you.

But at the same time, you knew he would he would have urges to play again this year. Still, too late Brett buddy. We're moving on. Let the (long overdue) Aaron Rodgers era begin!

-

Pro Football Weekly's Annual NFL Preview '08 predicts the Patsies over the Cowgirls in the SB. Their preseason Power Rankings (just the top 10):
1. Patriots
2. Cowboys
3. Chargers
4. Colts
5. Seahawks
6. Giants
7. Jaguars
8. Browns
9. Steelers
10. Saints

Other notables:
Packers =12
Raiders = 25
Chiefs = 28
Ravens = 29

-

I've only just started my studies so my predictions at this point are less than educated. But of course I've got to make them anyway. Early hunches:

- Superbowl XLIII: Cowboys over Jaguars.

- Final Four includes: Packers and Colts. (Two reasons why I say the Cowboys will beat the Pack in the NFC Championship game: 1) the game will be in Dallas; 2) it will be a revenge game for the Cowboys.)

- Aaron Rodgers will officially be declared the real deal after week 3. Furthermore, I predict he makes the Pro Bowl.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I'm kind of surprised. I figured Packer fans would be in Farve's corner, but then again, he has been doing this "dance" for a few years now. I thought he announced his retirement too soon after the season.

Jaguars? I dunno. I like the RB tandem, but I'm not sold on Garrard. He has better weapons, but he has to do it again this season to prove he's the real deal. Defense may take a hit without Marcus Stroud at DT.

The Sporting News put Chargers over Cowboys in the Super Bowl. I'm slowly going through the book, flipping from one team to another instead of going through each page. I did read about the Packers, and TSN has them #1 in the NFC North, and losing in the NFC Championship game against Dallas.

I predict Brian Brohm will end the season as the starting QB of the Packers.

[BaneNWN]

Who knows what the hell is up with that whole Favre/Packers thing. It's mostly rumor and speculation at this point. I'm disappointed with Favre.nah it was comfirmed on espn.com yesterday he wants his release to play for another team

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I didn't know how much Favre was flip-flopping on coming back or staying retired. I read (and listened to on local sports talk) that a few months ago, the GM and Coach were going down to Mississippi to talk to Favre then announce he was coming back, but he changed his mind. He flip flops worse than some of the System Wars posters.

Favre, stay gone. Your legacy will only be tarnished, and it's Rodgers' (or Brohm's) time to shine.

[PapaSmurf]

RAIDER NATION HOMIES!

that and my luck at vegas, this should turn out to be great season. We can only be bottom dwellers for so long. I predict D. McFad will have a season like Adrian Peterson last year and hopefully JaMarcus will have some accurate passes from that cannon of his. No way we win less than 6 games.

[Glockstar]

Brett Favre: Image tarnished.


-


Five, what happened to your blog?

[Fivespot]

It's still there. You can click on my PSN card to get at it. Not writing much lately with summertime and all. Thanks for asking; I'm glad at least one person checks it out on occasion.

Yup, Favre's image tarnished.

[Glockstar]

The drama-drenched Packers quarterback had a conversation with team general manager Ted Thompson in which he was informed that both the New York Jets and Tampa Bay Buccaneers were interested in a possible trade, FOXSports.com's Jay Glazer reports.

Favre would have permission from the Packers to speak to either of those teams, a condition they would likely not grant should any NFC North rivals inquire about the retired passer's services.

Meanwhile, Favre has told the Packers he plans to report to training camp this weekend, a move perhaps designed to force the team to quickly work out a trade for the three-time MVP.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/wcStory?contentId=8375338#story=8361098

Stay the frak away from the Packers camp a-hole! :mad:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f386/GregorySpeed/hot_corner_brett_favre.jpg

[Fivespot]

Looks like mini camp might be a circus if #4 shows up. Just what the Pack needs, more Favre distractions.... :(

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Why is Ryan Grant holding out? He's had 3/4 of a one good year.

I never cared for this holding out crap just to get a better contract. I understand if a player outperforms his low based pay and feels like he deserves a better contract, but holding out seems unprofessional. Yeah, the Bears' Devin Hester held out and got a contract, but when it was time for Panthers WR Steve Smith to get a better deal, there was no holdout, no yapping about it in the newspaper or on sports-talk, or anything. The deal just got done.

[Fivespot]

Not sure what's up w/Ryan Grant other than him wanting lots of $$. Seems to me like the Packers and their GM Ted Thompson are very careful to not overpay anyone. If they think a certain player is worth ____, they won't go over that amount. We've lost some good players this way but it hasn't hurt us yet and remarkably TT has been correct in almost every instance not giving those boys the big pay.

I'm not saying Grant doesn't deserve more money, I'm just saying it doesn't surprise me that the Packers haven't just given him what he wants.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Does Grant really deserve more money? He's only had 3/4 of a good year. I wouldn't mind seeing some consistency before he gets a big contract. Maybe Grant wants long-term security with one team, after being cut and on practice squads in the past. Now that I can understand.

I think the Packers have two pretty decent backs, Brandon Jackson (Nebraska) and Deshawn Wynn (Florida). Both showed a little bit before getting hurt. Don't know if they could do it an entire season.....

[Fivespot]

Yes, I think Grant is worth it. I had the chance to see him play quite a few games and he's an impressive back. I think you're right RBH; he is looking for a long term deal probably due to his prior issues finding a home on a starting roster.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Grant is flying under the radar with all the Favre stuff going on.

Two Questions:

If you were Favre, would you take the $20 mil over ten years?

Who is the most important player (offense and defense) for your team(s)?


I wouldn't take the money. It does make the GM/team look really desperate to keep Favre away. The whole thing is a mess.

Most important player: Defense - DT Jamal Williams. I know Merriman is a good player and all, but Williams commands the line. Without him, teams would have an easy time running against us (San Diego). Offense - HB LaDanian Tomlinson, but just barely. I think QB Philip Rivers has climbed up the ladder to the point where he may become just as important or even more important than LT. We (I'm on the roster) almost beat the Patriots* in the playoffs with Rivers while LT was out with an injury.

*Giants won the next game New England played, but they didn't beat the Patriots. The Patriots beat themselves. I refuse to give the G-Babies any credit.

[BaneNWN]

Favre's image is not tarnished.So lets blast the guy for changing his mind big deal.I live in wisky but im not a packer fan but if the guy still feels he wants to play knowone has a right to judge.He has earned enough respect to change his mind if he feels like it.Im a bears fan i predict 6-10 for us since we cant seem to figureout how to get a decent QB.Maybe 6-10 is to generous.Ill call 5-11 right now and i predict minnesota to win the division.Aaron Rogers has alot to learn i think the packers are in for a mediocre 8-8 maybe 9-7 season.Minny 10-6 wins the division

[Glockstar]

It's about a lot more than a guy changing his mind about his retirement, Bane. So maybe he did retire too soon (duh) and maybe he does want to play again... but there was a right way to go about coming back and wrong way. Favre not only took the wrong way, he rendered the path asunder. He's a selfish #@$%. Always has been; always will be.


Regarding your picks for the "Norris Division" - particularly for the Vikes: I think the NFC North is going to be the best division in the whole NFL this year. The Vikes... yeah, they're pretty scary. All depends on their QB tho'. And sorry, I'm just not much of a believer in Tavaris Jackson. Of course, I wasn't much of a believer in David Garrard or Derek Anderson either. (Still not a believer in D.Anderson, actually.) And the Vikes history is replete with shlub quarterbacks playing like all-pros - they always, somehow, seem to have a good QB. So, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the Vikings in the Super Bowl. Yes, you heard me correctly: in the Super Bowl.

And a sleeper team to watch out for is the Bears. They could easily be on their way back to the SuperBowl. I believe Cedric Benson was a bigger problem than the team ever let on. I believe the o-line will return to form. And I believe that the Bears Adrian Peterson will be the Adrian Peterson to watch out for on Sundays this year. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

So the Packers aren't going to have it easy this year. But I think they're still a power team. They lost some guys in the middle of their D-line - but I think they're still covered. They lost Favre. Good. (Did you not see his pathetic performance in the second half of that playoff game against the Giants? Were you not following football the 4 years prior to last?) I am so ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. The only concern I have with the team is at corner. I trust Charles Woodson to be steady, but Al Harris... it seemed like he aged overnite in the playoffs last year, and well... he is old. I like our safeties, but I don't trust who we've got set to replace Harris, or even come in in nickel situations for that matter. I still think we'll make a Super run this year tho' because I think our D-line and linebackers will provide exceptional, exceptional, pressure on opposing quarterbackers, so the corners won't be too exposed.


-

Re: Brett and the Packers bribe:
Take the money fool. Take the money and run. Hel-lo; did you forget that you allowed yourself to be on the cover of Madden this year? Take it; and go away. Go back to your wife; and back down to Mississipi, and go play touch football in Wranglers - where throwing interceptions in a game doesn't really matter. And then maybe in a few years this will all be forgotten, and forgiven, and we can all honor you the way we would like to at your hall of fame induction. I've got two of your jerseys; and I've seriously had half a mind to burn them for about a week now. Don't make me do it.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Plaxico Burress pretty much exposed Al Harris in the playoffs. Before then, Harris looked pretty solid, even if he took one too many chances on interceptions. He's still a good corner, but I would definitely look to get starter in the draft after this season, and put Harris at the nickel back position unless he regains his old form.

I see one team from the NFC North making the playoffs this year, and honestly, I would like Detroit be that team. Too bad that won't happen. I would root for these losers if they had a competent GM.

I'm more of a believer in Derek Anderson than David Garrard and Tavaris Jackson. I think I'm not a fan of Garrard because he went to East Carolina (ECU). Tavaris just doesn't impress me one bit.

Also, I thought the Madden curse was already in mid season form, with the Favre vs Green Bay stuff going on.

David Tyree of the NY G-Women is on the front cover of Sports Illustrated. Let the SI cover jinx begin.

[Cuddly Knife]

Hel-lo[Farve]; did you forget that you allowed yourself to be on the cover of Madden this year? I think the curse already struck him, with all this nonsense that's been going on since he announced that he wanted back in. Retard.

Anyways, go Cowboys, go Bengals. Jess Simpson, go home! LOL, I find it funny that hardcore Cowboy fans are calling her Yoko-Romo.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Are you seriously a Cowboys fan, Cuddly? If so, you're really earning your arch-enemy title. :D

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Favre is back.

http://sports.aol.com/nfl/story/_a/bbdp/favre-back-with-the-pack/107501?icid=100214839x1206763796x1200344259


Favre Back With the Pack
By CHRIS JENKINS, AP
posted: 21 MINUTES

GREEN BAY, Wis. (Aug. 3) - Brett Favre is back. It remains to be seen whether he'll still be the leader of the Pack.

The Green Bay Packers reluctantly embraced Favre's forced return to the football field Sunday, after failing to come to a financial agreement that would manage to make Favre happy while staying retired.

The NFL announced Sunday that Favre will be reinstated and added to the Packers' active roster on Monday. Commissioner Roger Goodell had held off on granting Favre's request for reinstatement for nearly a week, hoping Favre and the team could resolve their standoff.

"Although we built this year around the assumption that Brett meant what he said about retiring, Brett is coming back," said team president and CEO Mark Murphy. "We will welcome him back and turn this situation to our advantage."

A private plane carrying Favre, wife Deanna and agent James "Bus" Cook arrived in Green Bay shortly after 8 p.m. EDT Sunday night. Favre exited the plane and waved to a crowd of several hundred fans gathered at the airport - in a severe lightning storm, no less - before driving off in an SUV.

The reinstatement will become effective at 1 p.m. EDT Monday, when Favre will be added to the Packers' active roster. By reinstating Favre, Goodell is following through on a recent promise to force action.

Earlier this week, the team offered Favre a long-term, multimillion-dollar marketing agreement that likely would have kept him retired. But Favre's decision to report to camp makes such an agreement less likely.

A trade remains a possibility.

"Frankly, Brett's change of mind put us in a very difficult spot," Murphy said in a statement released by the team. "We now will revise many actions and assumptions about our long-term future, all predicated on Brett's decision last March to retire.

"As a result of his decision, we invested considerably in a new and different future without Brett and we were obviously moving in that direction. That's why this wasn't easy. Having crossed the Rubicon once when Brett decided to retire, it's very difficult to reorient our plans and cross it again in the opposite direction - but we'll put this to our advantage."

Could reorienting their plans include a competition between Favre and Aaron Rodgers for the starting job? Team officials have maintained that if Favre returned to the Packers, it would be in some role other than as the starter - and have said Rodgers is their starter.
In his statement, Murphy said only that coach Mike McCarthy would "talk to the team and the quarterbacks about the plan moving forward, and after he has done that we will share it publicly."

Favre could be on the field as early as Tuesday.
The team has a scrimmage at Lambeau Field on Sunday night, then does not have another scheduled public practice until Tuesday morning. Favre's arrival in training camp could cause a major disruption to the team, although he would not likely begin practicing with the Packers right away.

Favre retired in March but has been having second thoughts. Team officials have insisted they are moving on with Rodgers, though, causing tensions to rise between Favre and the team.

Team officials publicly have ruled out releasing Favre, fearing he would immediately sign with division rival Minnesota.

McCarthy has said the Packers had a plan in place should Favre report to camp. He first would have to pass a physical exam and a conditioning test, then would likely be limited to individual drills.

Goodell told the NFL Network on Saturday he thinks the situation has lingered long enough.

"I think we have to force it," Goodell said. "I think it's come to the point where there need to be some decisions made on behalf of the Packers, on behalf of Brett, on behalf of all the fans."

If Green Bay doesn't trade Favre, what will they do? As much as Aaron Rodgers deserves to have the chance to start, Favre does give them the best chance to win this season. Will it be an open competition? I know one thing. If Rodgers isn't the starter when the regular season starts, there's no way he'll stay with the team after his contract is up, either after this season or next. He's been sitting too long, and with Favre back he probably doesn't feel like he'll ever get the chance to play.

[BaneNWN]

It's about a lot more than a guy changing his mind about his retirement, Bane. So maybe he did retire too soon (duh) and maybe he does want to play again... but there was a right way to go about coming back and wrong way. Favre not only took the wrong way, he rendered the path asunder. He's a selfish #@$%. Always has been; always will be.


Regarding your picks for the "Norris Division" - particularly for the Vikes: I think the NFC North is going to be the best division in the whole NFL this year. The Vikes... yeah, they're pretty scary. All depends on their QB tho'. And sorry, I'm just not much of a believer in Tavaris Jackson. Of course, I wasn't much of a believer in David Garrard or Derek Anderson either. (Still not a believer in D.Anderson, actually.) And the Vikes history is replete with shlub quarterbacks playing like all-pros - they always, somehow, seem to have a good QB. So, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the Vikings in the Super Bowl. Yes, you heard me correctly: in the Super Bowl.

And a sleeper team to watch out for is the Bears. They could easily be on their way back to the SuperBowl. I believe Cedric Benson was a bigger problem than the team ever let on. I believe the o-line will return to form. And I believe that the Bears Adrian Peterson will be the Adrian Peterson to watch out for on Sundays this year. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

So the Packers aren't going to have it easy this year. But I think they're still a power team. They lost some guys in the middle of their D-line - but I think they're still covered. They lost Favre. Good. (Did you not see his pathetic performance in the second half of that playoff game against the Giants? Were you not following football the 4 years prior to last?) I am so ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. The only concern I have with the team is at corner. I trust Charles Woodson to be steady, but Al Harris... it seemed like he aged overnite in the playoffs last year, and well... he is old. I like our safeties, but I don't trust who we've got set to replace Harris, or even come in in nickel situations for that matter. I still think we'll make a Super run this year tho' because I think our D-line and linebackers will provide exceptional, exceptional, pressure on opposing quarterbackers, so the corners won't be too exposed.


-

Re: Brett and the Packers bribe:
Take the money fool. Take the money and run. Hel-lo; did you forget that you allowed yourself to be on the cover of Madden this year? Take it; and go away. Go back to your wife; and back down to Mississipi, and go play touch football in Wranglers - where throwing interceptions in a game doesn't really matter. And then maybe in a few years this will all be forgotten, and forgiven, and we can all honor you the way we would like to at your hall of fame induction. I've got two of your jerseys; and I've seriously had half a mind to burn them for about a week now. Don't make me do it.

For the bears its never been about there offense there defense is what has always defined the bears doing well or not.Im not sold on this aging defense anymore.I hope im wrong but even with this defense in its prime they werent big time stuffers they were always a bend but dont break defensive unit.I agree about benson i wish we wouldnt have traded thomas jones he wasnt like a top 3 back or anything but he sure as hell was solid for us.

If favre starts for the pack i think they will be the favorites to take the division again.BTW if favre was selfish he would have taken the 25 mil over 10 years to stay retired.He wants to play that doesnt make him selfish.Packers fans should be happy atleast now they got a legit playoff team with favre at the helm.Even if rodgers did pan out it wouldnt be in his first full year and the pack with him at the helm is no better then an 8-8 team.favre by himself will win 2 more games then that this year

[PapaSmurf]

This is retarded. I have faith Aaron Rodgers because he was a baller when he was playing with Cal. Favre needs to think about other people here, becuase when they drafted Roger's he was supposed to be Favre's replacement. Now after 3 years he finally gets a shot that he's rightfully earned only for Favre to come back and be like uh yea screw you man. Also the thing is, Favre may be better than Rogers but having seen that kid play in college and his glimpses in that Dallas game next year I know that he would definitely be starting on other squads....like my Raiders, we'll see how Jamarcus does.

Btw, anyone see my boy Colt Brennan out of Hawai'i in NFL preseason today? 9 for 10 for 125 yds, 2 TD, and no picks. Damn he looked good. Wish Raiders would have taken him.

[BaneNWN]

This is retarded. I have faith Aaron Rodgers because he was a baller when he was playing with Cal. Favre needs to think about other people here, becuase when they drafted Roger's he was supposed to be Favre's replacement. Now after 3 years he finally gets a shot that he's rightfully earned only for Favre to come back and be like uh yea screw you man. Also the thing is, Favre may be better than Rogers but having seen that kid play in college and his glimpses in that Dallas game next year I know that he would definitely be starting on other squads....like my Raiders, we'll see how Jamarcus does.

Btw, anyone see my boy Colt Brennan out of Hawai'i in NFL preseason today? 9 for 10 for 125 yds, 2 TD, and no picks. Damn he looked good. Wish Raiders would have taken him.

Well if anyones screwing rodgers over its certainly not favre.Packers should have just traded favre or at the very least let him talk to other teams.Everyone wants to put this on favre shoulders but in the end the packers have the final say.They could also use favre as a backup but you already know favre will start.The teams a super bowl contender with favre they are not with rodgers at this point.

[PapaSmurf]

Actually it does fall on Favre's shoulders. He's the one who said he was retiring which enabled the Packer organization to move forward. Favre has a direct impact on what the Packers are going to do. I do think a man is entitled to change his mind, but come on now we've dealt with this for three season's in a row now, with this season being the most dramatic. Not to mention I'm sure he handed the reigns personally to Aaron when he left and all the sudden he's pretty much spitting in his face by coming back. From a teammate stand point that's just messed up.

You also have to look at this from an organizational stand point. Favre at best is a short term solution. Not to mention he's old as hell. Sure he had a great season last season, but the couple seasons before that were sub par. The organization knows more than we'll ever know. Seeing Rogers play in college and his glimpses in the few games where Favre came out, I think and I'm pretty sure the Packers think that the man can lead them as far as Favre can. Let's not forget this will be Rogers third season in this offence and as I've stated before I have no doubt that he'd be starting for a lot of other teams. Obviously the organization has faith in him. I think the Pack will do good with or w/o Favre as one man doesn't make a team. Superbowl teams win with defense (ask the Pats about that last year) or a good balance of offense and defense. Let's no forget Ben Ros, won the superbowl his rookie year. It's not like unproven QB's don't suceed, and in this case, the Pack's guy has been in the NFL for 3 years studying under Favre and being in the offence. Hell in interview his team say they have faith in him.


Favre might be a great QB and played his heart out and will be a definite HOF, but it's more for his longevity than his actual skill imo. I think the Packer's organization knows what best for them. They've been making strides the last couple of years and I'm sure they want their long term solution at QB now, not later. I personally don't think Favre will take them to anything this year should he retain the roll as starter. I think the Pack is/was gambling on Rogers. You can say for sure that he'll be worse than Favre on gameday. They're gambling, and maybe it'll pay off. I'd personally like to see Rogers start and play a couple of regular season games. Maybe he'll make me it my words, maybe he'll make Favre look lik an ass. I don't know, but from the outside none of us know. I do know Favre doesn't make that team run, as he's been there for 16 years and they've gone up and down over the years. I personally think he can be replaced. You can't say the same about guys like Brady and Manning.

In the end I agree they should have just traded him away and been done with it, but that guy has been with the Packers for so long I just think the organization didn't want to tarnish his legacy with that particular team. I don't agree with releasing him though, as he has a contract and as to be obligated by it. He shouldn't have retired in the first place, but hey I wouldn't want to end my career on an INT either.

Favre has the record for most INTs btw.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I say both the Packers and Favre are to blame, but I put more on Favre due to the fact he's held the team at bay over the past few seasons while flip-flopping on retiring or not. If he wouldn't have been doing that, the team definitely wouldn't have drafted Brian Brohm (UL) or Matt Flynn (LSU), and maybe would have taken a pass on Aaron Rodgers that year for a more pressing need.

I watched a little bit of Brennan, but mostly on highlights. He should be a secured #3 this season, then moved up to #2 later on.

[Fivespot]

I personally believe the Packers would have drafted all of those QB's regardless of Favre. We have absolutely no depth at that position so the picks were more than necessary. Sure they could have picked up a vet instead but that's not how Ted Thompson (GM) operates. He prefers to build through the draft and has done a darn fine job in that regard in my humble opinion.

Furthermore Thompson has a history of picking the best available player. Considering how far Brohm fell on the draft board, Thompson thought he was the best available player at that time and snatched him up.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I can see GB picking up Brohm, since he was supposed to be considered 1st round talent. I was thinking they would have given some consideration to a DT with that pick, since they lost one or both starters from last year.

So how do you feel about GB and Favre as of today?

[Fivespot]

No feelings yet. I'm awaiting the 8:15pm local time press conference w/Mike McCarthey to hear his plans for how the team plans to handle Favre. Will he compete for his job? I hear that's the case but I won't trust that until I hear it "officially".

Regardless I want what's best for the team.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Ryan Grant signed a 4 year, $30 million deal.

[Glockstar]

If favre starts for the pack i think they will be the favorites to take the division again. ... Packers fans should be happy atleast now they got a legit playoff team with favre at the helm.Even if rodgers did pan out it wouldnt be in his first full year and the pack with him at the helm is no better then an 8-8 team.favre by himself will win 2 more games then that this year

...The teams a super bowl contender with favre they are not with rodgers at this point.

LOL You are joking, right? Yeah, you're a Bears fan; of course you'd want Brett Favre to be the Packers qb again.

Trust me, the team is way better off with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. I've been wanting him to be the starter for several years now. Heck, any quarterback would be an improvement over Favre. Not including last year. (Regular season.)

Yes Favre is a first-ballet HOF'er. But most of the stats that people look at for such things were compiled by him many years ago - during his first seven years (as a fulltime starter) actually. The last nine years he's been mediocre. (Well, not including last year.)

In 1999 he threw 22 TD's and 23 Int's, and finished with a rating of 74.7. In 2000 he threw 20 TD's and 16 Int's and had a rating of 78.0. He was ranked 25th among all QB's in 1999 - behind such "stars" as Jeff Blake, Shane Matthews, and Ray Lucas; and in 2000 was ranked 17 - wherein the likes of Rob Johnson and Kerry Collins put up better numbers.

Then he had a bit of resurgence in 2001 thru 2004.

But went to complete shift in 2005. In 2005 he threw 20 TD's, against 29 Int's and finished the year with a passer rating of 70.9 - which ranked him 31st. He was infuriating to watch that year, and single-handedly cost them at least 4 games. If his name wasn't Brett Favre, and he wasn't playing for the Packers, he would have been benched early and often. Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Brooks Bollinger, Josh McCown... I would have taken any one of those guys in a straight up trade for Favre that year. The Packers finished 4-12 in 2005, but I firmly believe that we could have made the playoffs had we had any other QB in there besides Favre.(!)

He followed up that loser year with a 18-18 TD-Int ratio, and a rating of 72.7 in 2006. He ended up ranked 25th. Guys like Rex Grossman, Alex Smith, David Carr, and JP Losman all but up better numbers than Favre in '06. Gawd I wished he would have retired. I was so ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. Because in these years Favre didn't care about the team. He was just out there slinging the ball around, without any regard for field position, for his defense, or even for the scoreboard; and if he threw an interception he seemed to have the attitude, like, 'oh well, I just wanted to see how hard I could throw it'.

Now last year was a pleasant surprise. (For the most part.) And he once again made a fan out of me. It was great year all around, and he was a lot of fun to watch. But I gotta tell you, he went into the year with a purpose, and with a great attitude; he recognized that he sucked the previous two years, knew that he had to make better decisions, and what's more he really put an effort into his conditioning in the offseason and pre-season. It clearly made a difference. What has he done in preparation for this year? He says he wants to come back and play again (no duh, Brett) but has he really done anything to prepare himself? Or does he just plan on going back to his gunslinging ways? Personally I think last year was an aberration, and that he's going to go right back to making selfish mistakes and sucking this year... should he even play. And I thought that even before finding out that he was on the cover of Madden. Look at the playoff game against against the Giants. That was his last game, and probably the most disappointing performance of his entire career.

No, Aaron Rodgers will be an improvement over Favre just by simple default. There's not many quarterbacks that have been as bad as Favre has been over these past few years.

But it's more than that. I like Aaron Rodgers, and think he's going to be a good one. Which I did not think, coming out of college. But I've done a 180 on the guy. I like the fact that he's had time to watch and learn. I really, really, like his intangibles. And I actually like what I've seen on the field - brief as it's been - over the years. I see promise. California Golden Bears quarterbacks haven't done squat in the NFL for the longest time now, but I think Aaron Rodgers does the school proud - and has a career that's even better than Craig Morton's or Steve Bartkowski's.

[PapaSmurf]

Glock and I may not agree on videogames, but at least we agree football. That's always a good thing.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Get ready for Jet Farve.

I'm still more of a Brian Brohm fan, but barring injury, I wouldn't be surprised if Aaron Rodgers ends up having a solid season.

Overall, it's good to see the NFL Soap Opera "As the Cheeseheads Turn" is at an end..... right?

[PapaSmurf]

Saint vs Cardinals tonight. First quarter should be fun to watch at least.

[Fivespot]

Overall, it's good to see the NFL Soap Opera "As the Cheeseheads Turn" is at an end..... right?

Yes, but it's a bittersweet ending and that's all I'm going to say at the moment. Still quite a sore spot for me personally as you can probably tell.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

As the only fan at VGR of the Super Bowl Champs I have to lend my considerable opinion to the whole Farve debate.

It's not his fault guys after suffering a crushing defeat at the hands the eventual Champs the New York Football Giants. Farve was downtrodden, demoralized, disenchanted after being determinedly defended against by the Gallant GMEN!

Now after suffering this Massive defeat how could he not want to retire. But after his wounds were sufficiently licked he changed his mind and foolishly believed that if given the opportunity again that he could some how prevail against the Peerless Super Bowl Giants.

It's quiet obvious that The Giants (Super Bowl Champs you Know) raddled this guys brain and he is not making logical Decisions. Does he really think that buy Playing in Giants stadium this year that some of OUR Super Bowl glory will rub off on him?

I suggest he's taking in for medical examination.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Normally I would bash your Giants loving self, but I'm going to give you a pass, kind of. As soon as the regular season kicks off, the Giants lucky Super Bowl win will officially be last season talk. Old news. Past tense. In the history books.

As soon as the Packers play their first game and Rodgers throws for over 300 yds and 2 TDs in a win, I think you'll feel better, Five.

[BaneNWN]

LOL You are joking, right? Yeah, you're a Bears fan; of course you'd want Brett Favre to be the Packers qb again.

Trust me, the team is way better off with Aaron Rodgers at the helm. I've been wanting him to be the starter for several years now. Heck, any quarterback would be an improvement over Favre. Not including last year. (Regular season.)

Yes Favre is a first-ballet HOF'er. But most of the stats that people look at for such things were compiled by him many years ago - during his first seven years (as a fulltime starter) actually. The last nine years he's been mediocre. (Well, not including last year.)

In 1999 he threw 22 TD's and 23 Int's, and finished with a rating of 74.7. In 2000 he threw 20 TD's and 16 Int's and had a rating of 78.0. He was ranked 25th among all QB's in 1999 - behind such "stars" as Jeff Blake, Shane Matthews, and Ray Lucas; and in 2000 was ranked 17 - wherein the likes of Rob Johnson and Kerry Collins put up better numbers.

Then he had a bit of resurgence in 2001 thru 2004.

But went to complete shift in 2005. In 2005 he threw 20 TD's, against 29 Int's and finished the year with a passer rating of 70.9 - which ranked him 31st. He was infuriating to watch that year, and single-handedly cost them at least 4 games. If his name wasn't Brett Favre, and he wasn't playing for the Packers, he would have been benched early and often. Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Brooks Bollinger, Josh McCown... I would have taken any one of those guys in a straight up trade for Favre that year. The Packers finished 4-12 in 2005, but I firmly believe that we could have made the playoffs had we had any other QB in there besides Favre.(!)

He followed up that loser year with a 18-18 TD-Int ratio, and a rating of 72.7 in 2006. He ended up ranked 25th. Guys like Rex Grossman, Alex Smith, David Carr, and JP Losman all but up better numbers than Favre in '06. Gawd I wished he would have retired. I was so ready for the Aaron Rodgers era to begin. Because in these years Favre didn't care about the team. He was just out there slinging the ball around, without any regard for field position, for his defense, or even for the scoreboard; and if he threw an interception he seemed to have the attitude, like, 'oh well, I just wanted to see how hard I could throw it'.

Now last year was a pleasant surprise. (For the most part.) And he once again made a fan out of me. It was great year all around, and he was a lot of fun to watch. But I gotta tell you, he went into the year with a purpose, and with a great attitude; he recognized that he sucked the previous two years, knew that he had to make better decisions, and what's more he really put an effort into his conditioning in the offseason and pre-season. It clearly made a difference. What has he done in preparation for this year? He says he wants to come back and play again (no duh, Brett) but has he really done anything to prepare himself? Or does he just plan on going back to his gunslinging ways? Personally I think last year was an aberration, and that he's going to go right back to making selfish mistakes and sucking this year... should he even play. And I thought that even before finding out that he was on the cover of Madden. Look at the playoff game against against the Giants. That was his last game, and probably the most disappointing performance of his entire career.

No, Aaron Rodgers will be an improvement over Favre just by simple default. There's not many quarterbacks that have been as bad as Favre has been over these past few years.

But it's more than that. I like Aaron Rodgers, and think he's going to be a good one. Which I did not think, coming out of college. But I've done a 180 on the guy. I like the fact that he's had time to watch and learn. I really, really, like his intangibles. And I actually like what I've seen on the field - brief as it's been - over the years. I see promise. California Golden Bears quarterbacks haven't done squat in the NFL for the longest time now, but I think Aaron Rodgers does the school proud - and has a career that's even better than Craig Morton's or Steve Bartkowski's.

Dude how can you say the packers are better with aaron rodgers when he hasnt proven anything yet?Not to mention it takes a QB 2 full years of playing to feel comfortable playing at the NFL level.Favre single handidly won the pack 4 games last year.28 td 15 int with a 95 quarterback rating your freakin nutts if you think rodgers will do anything close to that.Favre had off years the previous 2 years but redeeemed himself last year.I guarentee you by game 6 thi year the packer fans are going to wish they had favre.Yep favre is capable of having some horrible games but he also had leadership in which aaron doesnt have yet.I think with as close as the packers came to getting to the superbowl last year they were really stupid trading him to the jets.Now there back at square 1.Last year they were an elite team this year they will be very average without favre mark my words 8-8 at best no playoffs.Knowones seen enough of aaron rodgers to say hes going to be an improvement hell he could be the next rex grossman lol.favre is still a top 5 QB in the league whether you want to believe it or not.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I don't think Favre's in my top 5.

1) Tom Brady (NE)
2) Peyton Manning (IND)
3) Drew Brees (NO)
4) Carson Palmer (CIN)
5) Tie: Philip Rivers (SD), Donovan McNabb (PHI)

[Fivespot]

If Favre were still w/the Packers I think he's easily a top 5 QB. With the Jets however my guess is something like top 10 or 15 and I'm not saying that just because I'm a Packers fan.

The Pack has one heck of a team and he was silly to leave it in my opinion. He'll be regretting that shortly.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I don't think Favre has the weapons or the O-line around him to put up anything close to what he put up last year. He won't stink it up, but he had some serious weapons at WR at his disposal, plus he knew the offense front and back at GB.

Notice I didn't put Romo or Eli on my list. Big Ben would be my #6 QB. The top three are pretty much a lock.

[Fivespot]

Fantasy wise, Romo is high on my list as is Big Ben. I'm with you re: Eli. Not ready to board that train just yet even after he won the SB.

[Glockstar]

Dude how can you say the packers are better with aaron rodgers when he hasnt proven anything yet?Not to mention it takes a QB 2 full years of playing to feel comfortable playing at the NFL level.Favre single handidly won the pack 4 games last year.28 td 15 int with a 95 quarterback rating your freakin nutts if you think rodgers will do anything close to that.Favre had off years the previous 2 years but redeeemed himself last year.I guarentee you by game 6 thi year the packer fans are going to wish they had favre.Yep favre is capable of having some horrible games but he also had leadership in which aaron doesnt have yet.I think with as close as the packers came to getting to the superbowl last year they were really stupid trading him to the jets.Now there back at square 1.Last year they were an elite team this year they will be very average without favre mark my words 8-8 at best no playoffs.Knowones seen enough of aaron rodgers to say hes going to be an improvement hell he could be the next rex grossman lol.favre is still a top 5 QB in the league whether you want to believe it or not.

Come on Bane. You're really trying my patience now. I explained in detail why I think the Packers will be better off with Rodgers than they would with Favre. Actually, I pretty much said that they'd be better off with anybody back there than Favre... but I'm glad that they have Aaron Rodgers and not just anybody. Did you even read my post? Do you even watch football?! Favre is top 5 QB? Haw! In 2007 he may have been, but over the course of the last nine years he's not even a Top 15. I'm done with you.


Re: the trade. I love it. For the Packers. We got rid of a cancer, and got more than a box of footballs for him. Because that's what I would have taken for him if I was running the team.

But it's a bad deal for the Jets. It's kind of good for them in that it creates buzz for their team in The Mad City, where otherwise such excitement would be hard for them to generate - particularly with the Giants reigning as Super Bowl champs. But otherwise it's an awful deal because it creates chaos at the qb position for them. And of course Chad Pennington got screwed. I think Pennington was poised to have a great year. What's more, I had the Jets making the playoffs as a wildcard team in my preliminary predictions. But now with Favre as their quarterback, and no Chad Pennington, I've got to scratch them.

[BaneNWN]

I don't think Favre's in my top 5.

1) Tom Brady (NE)
2) Peyton Manning (IND)
3) Drew Brees (NO)
4) Carson Palmer (CIN)
5) Tie: Philip Rivers (SD), Donovan McNabb (PHI)

Tom brady is a system QB you put him on any other team hes still good but nothing like he is now.Peyton Manning has always had great recievers around him.Brett Favre made his recievers he never had anything like what manning has or Brady.Put brady on the packers i could pretty much guarentee you hed stink it up.Carson palmer i wont argue with nor mcnabb.If anything i think Mcnabb was underrated for years.Manning is deffinetly top 5 but i think somewhat overrated he has always had great lines.Under pressure he is actually one of the worst there is

[Aku]

Well Favre had a 95+ rating last year, threw for over 4000 yards and just about twice as many td's as picks. Football is a team game, and Favre's poor numbers in some recent seasons speak a lot about the deficiencies of the offense around him and Favre trying to do too much. Rodgers vs. Favre isn't exactly Young vs. Montana. When the Niners packed Montana off to K.C. years ago, Young had already established himself as top-tier starter. Rodgers is just a big question mark. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for looking to the future, but face it, if Favre hadn't announced his retirement, the Packers never would have started Rodgers over him this season.

[BaneNWN]

Come on Bane. You're really trying my patience now. I explained in detail why I think the Packers will be better off with Rodgers than they would with Favre. Actually, I pretty much said that they'd be better off with anybody back there than Favre... but I'm glad that they have Aaron Rodgers and not just anybody. Did you even read my post? Do you even watch football?! Favre is top 5 QB? Haw! In 2007 he may have been, but over the course of the last nine years he's not even a Top 15. I'm done with you.


Re: the trade. I love it. For the Packers. We got rid of a cancer, and got more than a box of footballs for him. Because that's what I would have taken for him if I was running the team.

But it's a bad deal for the Jets. It's kind of good for them in that it creates buzz for their team in The Mad City, where otherwise such excitement would be hard for them to generate - particularly with the Giants reigning as Super Bowl champs. But otherwise it's an awful deal because it creates chaos at the qb position for them. And of course Chad Pennington got screwed. I think Pennington was poised to have a great year. What's more, I had the Jets making the playoffs as a wildcard team in my preliminary predictions. But now with Favre as their quarterback, and no Chad Pennington, I've got to scratch them.

There is noway you could ever convince any knowlegable nfl fan that aaron fricken rodgers is a better choice then favre this is totally ridiculous.What you dont understand is Aaron rodgers is going to have growing pains his first full year when the pack are superbowl contenders.to put an unproven QB on a team with high expectations isnt a wise choice by management.The fact is the packers never intended on working with favre so they screwed themselves out of playoff contention over a retarded move not to start favre.Ill be sure to bump this post after the season is over and the packers arent in the playoffs.ya having a rookie QB is better then having a hall of famer who can still put up huge number this is ridiculous glock.so since march of 2008 favre has become a cancer huh?its all the media crap feeding this to you.I guarentee you the majority of packer players would rather have favre in the huddle over rodgers.ofcourse there going to say they back rodgers its what they have to say because they new favre was gone anyways.Oh and pennington wasnt bringing anyone to the playoffs with his gimp arm are you kidding me?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Yo RBH you know why this thread got bumped right??? How bout them Chargers. Oh and I know you are sick Turner looked awesome LT had a good game though.

My GMEN started the season with there W on thursday. With BIG Brandon looking like Fvcking beast as he punished the Redskins in the second half.

Brady goes down and Indy get's crushed by da Bears.

Farve still throwing up B.S. and getting lucky.

[PapaSmurf]

All those games don't even matter. The only game that matter is tonight at 7 PST. Raider Nation is bringing in Monday Night Football and deservedly so. 1-0 start from the silver and black.

[Fivespot]

Tell your boy McFadden to have a big game as I need him to in order to have a chance at winning my FF game this week. Thanks Papa.

[PapaSmurf]

Lol. Five you and me are in the same boat. Pretty much depends on McFadden. Well and the Raider D.

[Fivespot]

Oh, and I need Adrian Peterson held in check. Better luck next week. ;)

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

The Panthers are my NFC team, but they are a distant #2 behind San Diego. I knew something was up when DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart were having consistently good runs vs the defense, and the middle of the field seemed to be open for TE Rosario (who caught the game winner). I wasn't too upset about the loss. Carolina played a better game, and SD looked sluggish. At least Merriman played ok. He wasn't a big factor, but he didn't look like a peg-leg out their either. I think once we lost Donnie Edwards to free agency, our MLB haven't played well. There's a big playmaking void at that position.

Now Carolina needs to vaidate this win vs Chicago at home, while I look for SD to bouce back at Denver.

The G-Women need to play a real time. Washington sucks.

[Glockstar]

Oh, and I need Adrian Peterson held in check. Better luck next week. ;)

What other Packers did you end up with?

I pretty much did what I said I'd do: I got Mason Crosby, and Aaron Rodgers.

[Cuddly Knife]

Go Dallas! Woo-hoo!!

Too bad my Bengals lost though.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The Bengal looked like Sh!t very disappointing.

The Pack squeezed one out. And the Raidernation are still a bunch of bums.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I thought the Raiders had a good defense.

Merriman finally decided to get the surgery. Good for him. Come back in 09 completely healthy.

After week 1, I finally know who I want to use in Madden 09. The St. Louis Rams. Get rid of a couple of players (Marc Bulger and 1/2 of the defense), and I'm good to go.

[PapaSmurf]

What an effin dissapointment. I almost cried yesterday. My fantasy team lost on the Raiders D alone which is supposed to be a solid unit...

Hopefully the Raiders look deep within themsleves instead of bickering amongst one another and I can finally have a happy NFL season.

Speaking of fantasy, what a dissapointment Maurice Jones-Drew was. Between him and the Raider D I don't know which one led to my loss more. (sigh). I got what I about expeced out of McFadden. JaMarcus doesn't fumble that pass to McFadden, I might have won my game.

[Fivespot]

What other Packers did you end up with?

I pretty much did what I said I'd do: I got Mason Crosby, and Aaron Rodgers.

I didn't get any Packers. Unfortunately. Living here and playing with the folks I play with the Packers players tend to go sooner than they should and I usually end up with none of them.

Aaron Rodgers would have been nice. At least you picked him up. I also wanted Jennings but he was snatched up early. My wife got James Jones so that's something.

[Fivespot]

What an effin dissapointment. I almost cried yesterday. My fantasy team lost on the Raiders D alone which is supposed to be a solid unit...

Hopefully the Raiders look deep within themsleves instead of bickering amongst one another and I can finally have a happy NFL season.

Yeah that was pretty ugly. Both games were in most respects. Too many penalties. Way too many.

The Raiders have tremendous upside so don't get down this early. Yes, they looked like crap but consider how young their staring line-up is especially the guys in the skill positions.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Damn RBH must be on suicide watch about now. Damn Shannonhan (sp?) has a pair.

The champs done it again

The colts gutted one out I was actually impressed with them. Peterson is a fvcking beast.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Talk about getting robbed. Cutler fumbled that ball near the goalline on that pass play, and we recovered the ball before the defensive player went out of bounds. The referee claimed it was a forward pass. Bull. Mile High Robbery.

When are the Chumps going to play a consistent team? Washington showed up a week after playing the G-Women, and the Rams are only good in my Madden season (I'm 3-1 with them).

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Dude they still gave up the 2 point conversion. And the Touch and 40+ points. The call was bullshi+ though.

[Fivespot]

Yup, that call was weak. And all because the ref blew the whistle. Lame rule.

My Pack looks damn good!!

[PapaSmurf]

Raider Nation arrived today. Albeit a lousy team. McFadden busted out my fantasy league hopes today. Ballin! That Raider D was pitchin a shut out until 4 min in the 4th as well.

Oh and Calvin Johnson, Detroit may not have won, but damn my fantasy team loves Calvin.

[Fivespot]

McFadden came up huge for me as well. Any word on Fargas and the extent of his injury?

I also have J Stewart from CAR on my FF team so my RB situation just got a lot better this past weekend.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

My Charger defense sucks so far this year. I think it's because of two things: The CBs not playing the receiver (they want to pick off every pass, and taking chances lead to wide open WRs) and a lack of a good overall MLB. After Seau and Edwards, we just don't have anyone who can stop the run and play pass coverage, whether zone in the middle or man against TEs.

Why do the Raiders want to fire Lane Kiffen so bad? I keep hearing different things about it, and it all seems to point towards Al Davis.

[Fivespot]

Apparently, and Papa should know more, Al's wanted him gone for a long time now. Seems like a recurring theme with Al Davis imo.

[Superjoint Ritual]

My Bill's have finally put a good team on the field. We should take the AFC East.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The Bill actually look pretty decent good enough to lose another superbowl? Not quite yet but that have something in the making.

[PapaSmurf]

Alright to answer RBH. Al Davis has wanted Kiffin gone since the end of last year. Every Raider fan knows that the raiders don't have a chance in hell of being a play off contender until Davis dies. He's all about instant gratification and wants a coach who'll throw the ball every damn play (Raiders rushed for over 300 yards on Sunday, which to Davis is a bad thing).

So basically Davis wanted Kiffin to resign, so he wouldn't have to pay the rest of Kiffin's three year contract. Kiffin basically was like "F you, you're gonna have to fire me" and Davis wasn't willing to do that. Also since the Raiders don't have a GM, it's like Davis in the supreme being. Kiffin has no say in the personel on the team of the coaches and another problem has been that D Cooridnator Ryan doesn't like Kiffin and vice versa.

So basically Kiffin is in a situation where he just calls the offensive plays. That's his job. Basically an O cooridnator with the head coach label. I very much think Kiffin can coach and most raider fans will agree. The problem in the last decade is and always has been Al Davis. He wants a coach to be amazing in the first year and then if things don't go his was he just tries for my more instant gratification, which isn't going to work in todays NFL game. We'll see what happens as the year goes on, but it's hard to run you're type of team if you can't recruit the type of players needed to be in it. Kiffin works with what he has. Davis drafts based on talent and not on need, which is another problem the raiders have had.

I just did a bunch of work for school so sorry if the grammar and well basically everything was rushed...

[Cuddly Knife]

How 'bout them Cowboys? What a damn good game it was today, vs the Eagles. Mcnabb looked as good as ever, until he bumbled the handoff to Westbrooke. Bummer for them.:D

Pity about my Bengals. 0-2 is never a good thing. Ocho-cinco needs a new team, like Dallas. Ocho-cinco, that's the dumbest sh1t ever. it's ochenta-y-cinco. He never calls himself eight-five, it's always eighty-five. i'm sleepy.

[Superjoint Ritual]

The Bill actually look pretty decent good enough to lose another superbowl? Not quite yet but that have something in the making. " Wide Right! "
:(

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Alright to answer RBH. Al Davis has wanted Kiffin gone since the end of last year. Every Raider fan knows that the raiders don't have a chance in hell of being a play off contender until Davis dies. He's all about instant gratification and wants a coach who'll throw the ball every damn play (Raiders rushed for over 300 yards on Sunday, which to Davis is a bad thing).

So basically Davis wanted Kiffin to resign, so he wouldn't have to pay the rest of Kiffin's three year contract. Kiffin basically was like "F you, you're gonna have to fire me" and Davis wasn't willing to do that. Also since the Raiders don't have a GM, it's like Davis in the supreme being. Kiffin has no say in the personel on the team of the coaches and another problem has been that D Cooridnator Ryan doesn't like Kiffin and vice versa.

So basically Kiffin is in a situation where he just calls the offensive plays. That's his job. Basically an O cooridnator with the head coach label. I very much think Kiffin can coach and most raider fans will agree. The problem in the last decade is and always has been Al Davis. He wants a coach to be amazing in the first year and then if things don't go his was he just tries for my more instant gratification, which isn't going to work in todays NFL game. We'll see what happens as the year goes on, but it's hard to run you're type of team if you can't recruit the type of players needed to be in it. Kiffin works with what he has. Davis drafts based on talent and not on need, which is another problem the raiders have had.

I just did a bunch of work for school so sorry if the grammar and well basically everything was rushed...

I told a friend who is a Raiders fan last year that the team needs a GM to run the show. Al Davis cannot evaluate talent. No owner should be evaluating talent.

If the Raiders can run well in every game except for two (vs San Diego), they should win a fair amount of games, and more importantly, give Russell time to really learn the game. Lane Kiffin seems like a pretty good coach who is just getting screwed, just as you said. If Al Davis gets rid of him, he'll be on the sidelines of either another NFL Team or a college football team next year.

Pity about my Bengals. 0-2 is never a good thing. Ocho-cinco needs a new team, like Dallas. Ocho-cinco, that's the dumbest sh1t ever. it's ochenta-y-cinco. He never calls himself eight-five, it's always eighty-five. i'm sleepy.

I think the Bengals need to clean house. Get rid of almost everybody. Start fresh. Keep Carson Palmer, though.

I may pick them to use in Madden 09 and dump most of the roster. Keep Palmer, get rid of everyone else that isn't an offensive lineman. Get rid of most of the defense as well.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Well the Bengal Showed some heart. Had me worried almost broke my laptop on a couple of occasions but The Champs pulled out a Championship level performance. ELI did his thing RBH even you have to admit that the E-MAN is one of the most clutch performers in the league.

Our D was great at moments but we gave up way to many big plays especially in the 4th quarter.

GO GIANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Why was Eli slinging the ball down the field in overtime? It's not like he had seconds left. They got lucky when Toomer caught that pass near the sidelines, because I think it was on 3rd down. As much as I don't care for Chad and TJ, I did want the Bengals to win.

With a schedule in front of me (courtesy of Sports Illustrated), your loser team's first real test comes October 26 vs Pitt, then Dallas and Philly afterwards. That's three straight losses after six straight wins.

[Cuddly Knife]

Cowboys ftw!!

I don't like Tony Romo.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Why was Eli slinging the ball down the field in overtime? It's not like he had seconds left. They got lucky when Toomer caught that pass near the sidelines, because I think it was on 3rd down. As much as I don't care for Chad and TJ, I did want the Bengals to win.

With a schedule in front of me (courtesy of Sports Illustrated), your loser team's first real test comes October 26 vs Pitt, then Dallas and Philly afterwards. That's three straight losses after six straight wins.


He knew he was going to have 1 one 1 coverage down the feel because they kept blitzing. him.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I tell you what. Based on how Philly played against Pitt yesterday, Eli won't have time to throw the ball. Those Eagles were all over the place. Dawkins made a great play to strip Roethlisberger of the ball late in the game.

I don't like Romo, either. The media has crowned him a star already. What has he done? Put up good regular season numbers, and crap out in the playoffs. It sounds like Rodgers was getting to be hyped up a bit too much before last night's game. It's too early. He has to earn it before he gets all the hype. He did play well, from the scorebox. Didn't watch the entire game (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz).

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Hot damn the Giants came of that bye week with a performance worthy of there Championship.

Forget what you thought the Giants are the best team in the League.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I would choose the Redskins over the G-Babies. Plaxico doesn't feel sorry for doing whatever he did to get suspended. What a diva. Making all that money, and acting like a b****.

[BaneNWN]

Giants look good but they have had a creampuff schedule thus far.other then wasington there opponents thus far are a combined 1-12.will see when they play someone who knows how to win.I wouldnt expect washington to keep there pace up either

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Well now the G-MEN are into the Meat of there Schedule and they started it off with a gritty come back. The resilence of this team is incredible.

How about them Chargers.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Our defense sucks. We can put points on the board, but that means nothing when the D can't stop anybody.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Our defense is great even when we can't put points on the board it doesn't matter .
And of course Eli will lead us to victory in the end.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Brandon Jacobs is impressive. Dallas quit on Sunday.

[TPoD]

It looks like I'm back just in time for the really big game between my Ravens and the NY football Giants. I'm not going to talk a bunch of smack because I really think that the Giants are hands down the best team in football (sorry Titans but that bs roughing the passer call against the Ravens should have you with one loss.) One thing that I will say, though, is that the Ravens are going to give NY all they can stand because they are playing well right now. Flacco is really starting to look comfortable in the offense, and the D is one of the best in the league. It should be interesting to see how the Giants choose to play this one. I know that Jacobs is a load, but nobody runs on the Ravens. I actually hope that the pride of the Giants and their running game becomes overwhelming for them and they try to stick with it. That will play into the Ravens' hands. If the Giants are smart they will become pass happy for this one game because our secondary is really banged up.

So how's everyone doing around here? It looks like a few of the regulars are still around...RBH, Glock, Five...etc. The Bolts don't look so hot RBH. Is is me or does LT actually look like he might be a little washed up before his time? They are just too streaky in general this year, but they could still get hot at the right time, and the AFC is really up for grabs anyway. I think that you other guys are Green Bay fans if I remember correctly? They are streaky too, and their life is a little more difficult since the Bears are way better than expected. It is going to be really tough for them to get into the playoffs if they don't win that division. Let's face it that the wildcards are probably both going to come from the NFC East.

So what about gaming? What is everyone playing now? I really got out of gaming in a big way for a while. I was playing my Wii quite a bit after the new Mario and Smash Brothers came out, but man has that thing been a disappointment for me since. Nintendo has really taken their strategy in a different direction. As for the 360 I just got Fable 2 and Fallout 3, and I cannot believe that games in the RPG genre have resurrected my faith in gaming. I have such little time to game since I still have not been able to get my wife into it, so when I have to decide which game I'm going to play it is a tough decision. I should probably just pick one and get my fill of it then move on. The problem with both games is that it is so easy to lose major chunks of time by just exploring and playing side quests. I don't really have much desire to "beat" the main quest in either game. Other than that the only other game that I have put any kind of time into was GTA IV, but I really think that Fable 2 and Fallout 3 are much more fun. I never thought that I would say that!

[Cuddly Knife]

nice to see you back, TpoD. i'm gonna put your last paragraph in SW because no one posts anywhere else just about.

[Fivespot]

Whoa, hey TPoD.

Yup, I'm a Packers fans as is Glock. I personally view this season as a transition year so I'm not getting upset with the recent losses. Our team looks strong leading into the future and if they can shore up their O line and linebacker corp, I think we're a playoff caliber team.

Been playing PS3 and 360 mostly. My most recent games are Fable 2 (beat it once, plan to play it again), Resistance 2, Gears of War 2 and starting next week Left 4 Dead.

I also have a backlog that's getting bigger and bigger:
Little Big Planet
Portal Still Alive
Penny Arcade Adventures (the first one)
Dead Space
Motorstorm Pacific Rift
Call of Duty World at War

I hope to see you around more often.

[TPoD]

I thought that the Ravens would be in the midst of a transition year too. In fact, I actually picked them to go 4-12 this year, but it has been a pleasant surprise. Plus it really helps that the AFC seems to be a little down this year imo. Once Brady got hurt the landscape really changed in the AFC. I still don't have my hopes up, though, since our schedule is so brutal. I am thinking the same way as you---that we are a few pieces away. We need to shore up our secondary, and start to gradually bring in some younger folks for the rest of the D. Now that we actually seem to have a legit QB we will definitely have to start looking for wide outs. They are talking alot around here about Ocho Cinco, but I sure hope that doesn't pan out.

[Fivespot]

Yeah, I wouldn't want him on my team either. Too much of a distraction. Plus, his whole name change makes me laugh. He wears #85 yet he changed his name to 8 5 in Spanish, not 85 like his number. What a dweeb.

[Glockstar]

It looks like I'm back just in time for the really big game between my Ravens and the NY football Giants. I'm not going to talk a bunch of smack because I really think that the Giants are hands down the best team in football (sorry Titans but that bs roughing the passer call against the Ravens should have you with one loss.) ...

Hrmph, when it comes to videogames you and I are so like-minded it's scary; yet when it comes to football we disagree on everything. I still do not believe in the Giants. I still can't believe they won the SuperBowl; I can't believe they're 8-1; and I can't believe people are ready to start calling them the best team in the NFL. I see them as an average team... that's just on an incredibly lucky streak or something. I don't know how they're doing it. They're garbage.



So how's everyone doing around here? It looks like a few of the regulars are still around...RBH, Glock, Five...etc. The Bolts don't look so hot RBH. Is is me or does LT actually look like he might be a little washed up before his time? They are just too streaky in general this year, but they could still get hot at the right time, and the AFC is really up for grabs anyway. I think that you other guys are Green Bay fans if I remember correctly? They are streaky too, and their life is a little more difficult since the Bears are way better than expected. It is going to be really tough for them to get into the playoffs if they don't win that division. Let's face it that the wildcards are probably both going to come from the NFC East.

There have been several times this year where the 2008 Packers have reminded me of the 2005 Packers. They're killing themselves with penalties, with dropped passes, and they've been bit hard by the injury bug. Couple those things with bad offensive line play and it's easy to see why we're 4-5. And yet, we could easily be 8-1. Three of the Packers losses have been by 3 points or fewer, and the 9-point loss to Tampa Bay was a game that they were leading in the fourth quarter, and despite their errors and being down most of the time I'm shocked they lost the game. Their last two losses were both on the road, were both to teams with serious playoff aspirations, and were lost by a combined 4-points... both games decided by dramatic field goals makes and misses. So no, the 2005 Packers this team is not. We've got a losing record now, but I believe we're going to finish with a great W-L record. The penalties thing is correctable, and last year the o-line improved as the season went on, and it's the same guys this year as it was then so I don't see why they can't do the same thing this year. (Actually, I don't know why they regressed.) I don't want to jinx anything, but I see us going 7-0 the rest of the way.


So what about gaming? What is everyone playing now? ...

Been playing a TON of Rainbow Six Vegas 1 online. And have been playing a ton of Rainbow Six... period. Why, I just got Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow, and will be getting to that just as soon as I finish with Return To Castle Wolfenstein. Oh yeah, I still play on my original Xbox! In fact, I think I've bough more games for it this year than I have my 360.

Also finishing up GOW2. And just got into the Horde mode last nite with the (VGR) fellas. Great times. Get Gears2 man!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

glock seriously come on man the hate is unbecoming. We have a good to great quater back an excellent recieving core. boss looks like a better overall tighend than shockey. A great running game with multiple solid backs.

And our D line is the best in the league. And that D line is going to be the down fall of the ravings. I don't see flacco being able to deal with the pressure he's going to get 0h and believe me he's going to get pressure.

I kind of agree with TPOD about us throwing on B More we should and I think we'll be successful Eli is great at handling pressure.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

The Bolts don't look so hot RBH. Is is me or does LT actually look like he might be a little washed up before his time? They are just too streaky in general this year, but they could still get hot at the right time, and the AFC is really up for grabs anyway.

Our defense sucks. It's been like that all season. I know Merriman is a great player, but one guy doesn't affect the D that much. Then again, it might. If Bob Sanders is hurt, the Colts D sucks out loud. LT has been battling an injury all year, but he's still putting up pedestrian numbers. Good thing Philip Rivers is playing out of his mind. Denver isn't that great, so we have a chance to overtake them. Our D has to show up, though.

It would be nice if the Ravens/G-Women game is on tv down here. I haven't watched Baltimore play in a couple of years.

So what about gaming? What is everyone playing now? I really got out of gaming in a big way for a while. I was playing my Wii quite a bit after the new Mario and Smash Brothers came out, but man has that thing been a disappointment for me since. Nintendo has really taken their strategy in a different direction. As for the 360 I just got Fable 2 and Fallout 3, and I cannot believe that games in the RPG genre have resurrected my faith in gaming. I have such little time to game since I still have not been able to get my wife into it, so when I have to decide which game I'm going to play it is a tough decision. I should probably just pick one and get my fill of it then move on. The problem with both games is that it is so easy to lose major chunks of time by just exploring and playing side quests. I don't really have much desire to "beat" the main quest in either game. Other than that the only other game that I have put any kind of time into was GTA IV, but I really think that Fable 2 and Fallout 3 are much more fun. I never thought that I would say that!

Fallout 3 has been great. A real time drainer, too. I'm so far away from the main quest, who knows when I'll get back on it. It's too bad I don't have a lot of time to play it during the week. Fable 2, well, it's pretty good, but not as good as Fable 1. The combat in this game isn't as fun, and the whole "family and social" stuff just isn't interesting. Saints Row 2 has been great, too. I'm going to put more time into that game instead of Fable 2 for a while. Gears 2 has been good as well, and the other games I've been dabbling in have been good to. I'm waiting on Tomb Raider, which should be a really good game based on how the demo played.

[TPoD]

Hrmph, when it comes to videogames you and I are so like-minded it's scary; yet when it comes to football we disagree on everything. I still do not believe in the Giants. I still can't believe they won the SuperBowl; I can't believe they're 8-1; and I can't believe people are ready to start calling them the best team in the NFL. I see them as an average team... that's just on an incredibly lucky streak or something. I don't know how they're doing it. They're garbage.

You are right. We do have our disagreements about football don't we? In fact I remember a certain coach that is now looking like a pretty decent broadcaster.....at least a better broadcaster than he was a head coach:) Seriously though, does this mean that you think that the Ravens can beat the Giants?





Also finishing up GOW2. And just got into the Horde mode last nite with the (VGR) fellas. Great times. Get Gears2 man!

Dude as much as I would love to it is prolly just unrealistic to expect. I think that I told you guys many times that my wife is a bartender. Well she picked up some shifts during the day at a new place that is slammed during lunch. So...my gaming time has shrunken considerably since then. Hopefully, she will get sick of it eventually and I will have some nights free during the week again.

[TPoD]

Our defense sucks. It's been like that all season. I know Merriman is a great player, but one guy doesn't affect the D that much. Then again, it might. If Bob Sanders is hurt, the Colts D sucks out loud. LT has been battling an injury all year, but he's still putting up pedestrian numbers. Good thing Philip Rivers is playing out of his mind. Denver isn't that great, so we have a chance to overtake them. Our D has to show up, though.

It would be nice if the Ravens/G-Women game is on tv down here. I haven't watched Baltimore play in a couple of years.

Yeah Philip Rivers has been much better than I expected, and you could be right about Lights Out. He was the emotional leader of that D....he was also indicitive of the swagger and toughness that they had. It would be like us trying to replace Ray Lewis. It is like having a coach on the field.

For the first time in years it is actually fun for me to watch my team. Even during the Super Bowl year watching the Ravens was downright painful. This year they still attempt to win by controlling the clock and playing great D, but the difference is that if they get behind it is not necessarily game over. I wish that we would have had Flacco a few years ago when the D was still in its prime. We would have been tough to stop.



Fable 2, well, it's pretty good, but not as good as Fable 1. The combat in this game isn't as fun, and the whole "family and social" stuff just isn't interesting.

Wow that shocks the hell out of me to hear that. I feel like Fable 1 set up a pretty good base, but Fable 2 has expanded on everything. I really like the combat---especially how it is so simply to switch back and forth between magic and melee or ranged attacks. It makes for some pretty impressive combos. Hopefully they will make it a little tougher next time, though. As far as the expressions go I actually like them, but I can see how you might not. The fact that your character is mute can make it feel like you are detached from the rest of the world, but it is still so damned funny. I guess that I look at Fable 2 this way: it is sort of like the person that knows alot about many different things, but doesn't have an area of expertise. The combat, social aspect, exploration factor, graphics, and side quests are all more than adequate for me, and when you combine the whole thing it is a really good package. However, when you think about each aspect individually none will knock your socks off. I hope that Lionhead keeps making the series because they will only improve on each of the aspects of the game.

[TPoD]

glock seriously come on man the hate is unbecoming. We have a good to great quater back an excellent recieving core. boss looks like a better overall tighend than shockey. A great running game with multiple solid backs.

And our D line is the best in the league. And that D line is going to be the down fall of the ravings. I don't see flacco being able to deal with the pressure he's going to get 0h and believe me he's going to get pressure.

I kind of agree with TPOD about us throwing on B More we should and I think we'll be successful Eli is great at handling pressure.

Yeah I'm definitely most concerned about the Giants D-Line, but luckily Flacco has shown a lot of poise so far. Of course that could change once he realizes that he is playing the champs in their backyard. I think that you wll see the Ravens start real conservatively, and try to eat some clock and get out ahead a bit. Then they may give Flacco some rope. Trust me, though, the Giants better not try to be run happy all day or it could be one of those vintage 13-10 Raven wins.

[Glockstar]

You are right. We do have our disagreements about football don't we? In fact I remember a certain coach that is now looking like a pretty decent broadcaster.....at least a better broadcaster than he was a head coach:) Seriously though, does this mean that you think that the Ravens can beat the Giants?

Dude, anybody could beat the Giants.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

refresh me on what happened to the Pack in the Playoffs last year???

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Wow that shocks the hell out of me to hear that. I feel like Fable 1 set up a pretty good base, but Fable 2 has expanded on everything. I really like the combat---especially how it is so simply to switch back and forth between magic and melee or ranged attacks. It makes for some pretty impressive combos. Hopefully they will make it a little tougher next time, though. As far as the expressions go I actually like them, but I can see how you might not. The fact that your character is mute can make it feel like you are detached from the rest of the world, but it is still so damned funny. I guess that I look at Fable 2 this way: it is sort of like the person that knows alot about many different things, but doesn't have an area of expertise. The combat, social aspect, exploration factor, graphics, and side quests are all more than adequate for me, and when you combine the whole thing it is a really good package. However, when you think about each aspect individually none will knock your socks off. I hope that Lionhead keeps making the series because they will only improve on each of the aspects of the game.

I think the combat took a step backwards. The gun and crossbow portion is really good, but the melee and magic (especially) just aren't as good as they were in Fable 1. For melee, the enemies can block at will, but my character seems to have lost that ability. Lionhead should have kept the block on a different button, instead of putting it on the same button as the actual combat. It feels clunky. For magic, it's busted and weak. Why in the world did Lionhead make every magic area and target based? They should have separated it to where you can buy either the target version or area version of the magic. The muted main character is cool and the expressions aren't bad, but the whole social start a family stuff feels like a huge waste of development time. They should have kept it like in Fable 1, where you don't have to stop your missions to go tend to your horny spouse every so often. It's more annoying than getting calls in GTA4 to go bowling or to the strip club while you're chasing an enemy in a helicopter.

I don't see Fable 3 being a game that will make me buy a next-gen Xbox system for.

[Glockstar]

refresh me on what happened to the Pack in the Playoffs last year???

Brett Favre happened. Dude, don't get me going.

[BaneNWN]

Brett Favre happened. Dude, don't get me going.


Ya and without favre this year the pack wont see the playoffs period.

[TPoD]

I think the combat took a step backwards. The gun and crossbow portion is really good, but the melee and magic (especially) just aren't as good as they were in Fable 1. For melee, the enemies can block at will, but my character seems to have lost that ability. Lionhead should have kept the block on a different button, instead of putting it on the same button as the actual combat. It feels clunky. For magic, it's busted and weak. Why in the world did Lionhead make every magic area and target based? They should have separated it to where you can buy either the target version or area version of the magic. The muted main character is cool and the expressions aren't bad, but the whole social start a family stuff feels like a huge waste of development time. They should have kept it like in Fable 1, where you don't have to stop your missions to go tend to your horny spouse every so often. It's more annoying than getting calls in GTA4 to go bowling or to the strip club while you're chasing an enemy in a helicopter.

I don't see Fable 3 being a game that will make me buy a next-gen Xbox system for.

Ahhhhh. You don't like having to attend to the old wife...you must not be married in real life then:D I think that they were just trying to add some more humor to the game with the whole wife and kid thing. I just sacrificed her to the Temple of Darkness so I wouldn't have to mess with her anymore. I guess that game devs feel tons of pressure to come up with unique styles of gameplay, so we are seeing more and more of the "sim thing" being combined with other game genres. I actually get a kick out of it.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Ya and without favre this year the pack wont see the playoffs period.

Unless there's a rash of injuries or bad luck, I think the Pack overtake the Bears for the playoffs. I don't think either team can win a wildcard, though. Pack played a great game vs Tennessee.



Ahhhhh. You don't like having to attend to the old wife...you must not be married in real life then I think that they were just trying to add some more humor to the game with the whole wife and kid thing. I just sacrificed her to the Temple of Darkness so I wouldn't have to mess with her anymore. I guess that game devs feel tons of pressure to come up with unique styles of gameplay, so we are seeing more and more of the "sim thing" being combined with other game genres. I actually get a kick out of it.

The kid was cool, but the spouse was a chore. I did get rid of someone who my character got engaged to (to get into one of those talking doors) by taking them to the Temple of Darkness. I think the "sims thing" takes away from the Fable 2, as well as GTA4. Any dev who considers putting that in their game should really balance it so it is actually a worthwhile part of the game. There's no way I would put up with a nagging character spouse in Fallout 3. I'll just invite them to take a swim in the nearest lake.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Helluva game last night. I stayed up and watched it didn't even get in any gears of war time with it. Awesome finish. A touchdown on 4th down last play classic. And can you believe Brett didn't throw a game ending pick in O.T. It's a trip that Castle sp? hasn't started since High school. He was the best player on the field last night.

[PapaSmurf]

I'm retarded. I started Benjarvus Green Ellis last night for my fantasy team over Maurice Jones-Drew and just got robbed. 0 points. Maurice against the Titans will have at least 6 or 7 even though he only had four at the beginning of the season

[BaneNWN]

Unless there's a rash of injuries or bad luck, I think the Pack overtake the Bears for the playoffs. I don't think either team can win a wildcard, though. Pack played a great game vs Tennessee.

.
I think if the packers do not beat the bears this weekend i feel there season is done.Minny will choke but im not so sure about the bears.The bears lost 2 games they should have won they could easily be 7-2 right now.There defense needs to be more consistant if they can do that they are sure to make the playoffs.I really think though the pack needs to win this week because with the bears remaining schedule they have a realistic shot of winning out.Bears win this week puts them 2 games up on the pack and the pack would have to come to soldier field 2nd from the last week of the season.I think if the pack beats the bears at home then the 2nd from the last week at soldier field will determine the division winner.Pack lose this coming week its going to be tough for them to overtake chicago.In the end it doesnt really matter cause any team who wins the nfc north has no shot of making it to the superbowl anyways.I hate to say it but baring injury the giants are superbowl bound again

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

The Bears need Kyle Orton to be healthy. If he was, I think they could have beaten Tennessee, which does look like a beatable team if they aren't running the ball.

I think the key to beating the Giants is getting to #10, by either blitzing or with great DL play. The game tomorrow vs Ravens should be a good one, since their D is still one of the best in the league.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Believe the Hype the Giants are for real. The game was never even really contested and we ran it down the Ravens throat in the first half Jacobs is a phucking man. I'm tempted to say the R word.

[BaneNWN]

Believe the Hype the Giants are for real. The game was never even really contested and we ran it down the Ravens throat in the first half Jacobs is a phucking man. I'm tempted to say the R word.
ill say it for you the giants are head and shoulders the best team in football.Baring injuries they will win the superbowl again.I hate the giants but i call it how i see it.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Giants suck. They're getting too fat and happy with themselves.

Unless San Diego (we) beat Indy (can happen, but our defense is awful this year) next week and Oakland have a miracle and beat Denver (not happening), then it's going to be very hard for my Bolts to get in the playoffs.

[Cuddly Knife]

Giant's do suck. My 'boys will beat them come playoffs, first win in the post since years and years.

No one amazed at what the Titans are doing?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

HI HATERS !!!



Giants suck. They're getting too fat and happy with themselves.

Unless San Diego (we) beat Indy (can happen, but our defense is awful this year) next week and Oakland have a miracle and beat Denver (not happening), then it's going to be very hard for my Bolts to get in the playoffs.

Giant's do suck. My 'boys will beat them come playoffs, first win in the post since years and years.

No one amazed at what the Titans are doing?



BYE HATERS !!!

ill say it for you the giants are head and shoulders the best team in football.Baring injuries they will win the superbowl again.I hate the giants but i call it how i see it.

Finally Someone in this thread who knows the truth preach on to the rest of the hate parade!

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I see the G-Women losing their first playoff game at home, to the Cowgirls of all teams. Ha!

I guess New England going 16-0 kind of set the bar for a little while. 10-0 is great, but can they: 1) Go 16-0 or more importantly, 2) How will the team react after they take their first L? Will they bounce back, or will they go in the fetal position like the Giants will in the upcoming playoffs?

[BaneNWN]

I think the titans are the worst 10-0 team in history.I think the jets have a good chance of beating them this week.I think tennessee finishes 13-3 no better then 14-2 though i think the colts and pittsburg beat them the last 2 weeks and i think the jets pull the upset this weekend.10-0 is 10-0 but i still think if they played the giants the giants would beat them pretty easy by atleast 2 touchdowns or more

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I think the titans are the worst 10-0 team in history.

I agree. Their defense is really good, but their offense can be shut down by any team who can defend both the pass and run. Slow down Chris Johnson and LenDale White early, get a lead (and keep scoring, even if it's FGs) to make Kerry Collins have to beat you, and start blitzing him like crazy. My Chargers of last year could beat the Titans by double digits.

[TPoD]

Yeah that was pretty ugly for my Ravens. I felt badly for Flacco, though. We got down 20-0, and I thought it was over, but Flacco showed some heart and we hit for 10 straight points and were driving again when that craziness happened. The ball goes right through Mason's hands, hits his helmet, and is intercepted. Then the Giants just put us away. My Ravens need serious help at the wide out position next year and we will be tough.

As for the whole Giants vs. Titans thing---look no further than their games against the Ravens. The Giants running game manhandled the best run D in the NFL this week. On the flip side the Titans would have lost to us if not for a very "fortunate and timely" roughing the passer call that kept the game winning drive alive with 3 minutes to play. The Giants are way better than everybody, and I could care less what the records say. Did somone above say that the Cowboys would beat the Giants in the playoffs? Come on...win a playoff game first!

[Cuddly Knife]

LOL, yeah, that was me. I'm just sore because both my teams have been sucking arse for the past decade, and in the case of the Bengals, forever.

[PapaSmurf]

you and me both Cuddly. Raiders have been stinkin up the joint since their 2002 superbowl appearance. They almost took out Miami last week, but again another blown 4th quarter lead this season. Story of the season for my silver and black.

My fantasy team has been kicking some ass though!

[BaneNWN]

What would be funny is if the titans can get to 12-0 and the lions 0-12 play eachother and the lions beat them

[Fivespot]

I think if the packers do not beat the bears this weekend i feel there season is done.

The Bears still suck. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[TPoD]

No. Here is an even crazier scenerio for everyone. What if the Titans make it to 18-0 just like the Pats last year and then lose to the Giants in the Super Bowl. That is actually feasible considering how weak the AFC is this year.

[Cuddly Knife]

Then I'd call the G-men the best upset kings ever. good scenario, TPoD.

[BaneNWN]

The Bears still suck. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Yet even after the packers blew them out there still only tied with them

[TPoD]

Then I'd call the G-men the best upset kings ever. good scenario, TPoD.

Here is something even crazier still. If the Titans were 18-0 and the Giants go through the rest of their season unbeaten and are 17-1, I would bet that the Giants would actually be favored.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

10-1 baby. And down Goes the Titans.

[Cuddly Knife]

Yeah, they got slapped-up. Now the real challenge is how they do after a loss. Will they keep up their confidence, or are they broken.

In other news, my 'boys look back in form. The only thing is that it was against the Niners. Not much of a challenge, IMO.

[TPoD]

Mark my words guys. The Titans are not for real. It is the Giants and then a whole bunch of teams that could beat each other on a given day. Pittsburgh, Carolina, Titans, Jets...hell you could even throw TB, NE, Ravens, and the Skins into the mix. The Titans will probably get home field advantage, but nobody is going to be too scared to go to Tennessee to play.

Btw Glock do you still think that the Giants are not for real? The way they are playing if the Super Bowl was tomorrow I just can't see them being less than an 8-10 point favorite over anyone in the league. They just have no glaring weaknesses to speak of.

[Fivespot]

After watching that debacle last night, I'm saddened to admit the Packers aren't for real. Man that game sucked.

[Cuddly Knife]

LOL, that was a mess of a game, Five. Could've been worse, you could be an Eagles fan. Poor Mcnabb. Watching his presser right now. He's broken.

[Glockstar]

After watching that debacle last night, I'm saddened to admit the Packers aren't for real. Man that game sucked.

#@$% I had a bad day today. A bad night; a bad day... and I expect tomorrow will be bad as well. Damn that game upset me.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I want to see McNabb go to another (better) team, with better fans. I actually wanted Chicago to make a play for him during the offseason.

[Fivespot]

I want to see McNabb go to another (better) team, with better fans. I actually wanted Chicago to make a play for him during the offseason.

NOOOO!!! We like to keep Chicago without a good QB. Why change history at this point? ;)

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Oh, I forgot. Who else needs a QB, and is close to making a good playoff run next year?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Anyone a college football fan? If so, how are your teams doing? Well, my Texas A&M team got whipped by the Longhorns. Mike Sherman (remember him) is their coach, but I'll give him a pass since he's using an offense that's not the spread (I don't like the spread offense except for Texas Tech). I think TAMU finished 4-8. My Washington Huskies are 0-12. I'm not sure of the final record of my Northern Illinois Huskies, but my Colorado Buffaloes and NC State Wolfpack both need a win to become bowl eligible.

Those teams, along with my SD Chargers sucking out loud (at least on defense), makes for a subpar football season for all my teams. Still a fan, and refuse to jump ship.

[Cuddly Knife]

What do you mean by jump ship? As in you aren't a fan of other sports? Hoops? hoops is my favorite to watch. My Lakers playing tonight. I'm gonna use the time watching the game to also start up my first LBP level. :D

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Jump ship, as in leaving your team if they have a bad year.

Hoops aren't bad. I don't like it as much as I used to. I like watching college basketball more than the pros, due to me not having a favorite NBA team.

[Cuddly Knife]

I just saw on ESPN that Plaxico Burres just got shot. He's most likely fine, but they don't really know for sure, or how long he may be out because of this. What a retard, I hope they dock him mad cash for being a moron.

[Glockstar]

He's always been a fracking moron. Remember when he was with the Steelers and after catching the ball he'd celebrate and spike it? Not a problem usually, except that he was never tackled nor the play ever whistled dead. Thus it was fumble... which the other team recovered of course. He did that twice, I think.

Typical behavior from a former Michigan State Spartan. There's a whole line of fruitcakes/retards that have been produced by that school over the past several decades. In both basketball and in football. No, but it's a great school really. :rolleyes:

[Glockstar]

Anyhow, #@$%ing Michigan weather. We're having a blizzard right now. Which has knocked out most of the satellite connections at the bars. So where I was at Buffalo Wild Wings, eating, drinking, and swearing... er, I mean watching the Packers... just minutes into the third quarter that changed to eating and drinking and looking at blank tv's. So now I'm back at home watching colored bars move back and forth and a football field looking graph. Again.

[BaneNWN]

Packer season is done.Whoever wins the minny/chicago game tonite will probably represent the nfc north in the playoffs.Im a bears fan but minny is playing well right now should be a tough game

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I'm glad Carolina was able to win that game. It's good that at least one of my 7 pro/college football teams have a winning record.

About Minny and Chicago. Why hasn't anyone exposed Gus Frerotte as the crappy QB that he is?

I've never been a MSU fan, but they're the only decent thing in Michigan when it comes to football, right? I don't know anything about the MAC schools (if it isn't Northern Illinois, I usually tune them out), but the Lions are the Lions and the Wolverines suck big time. Rich Rodriguez was a horrible hire. Not because we went 3-9 or 4-8, but because he runs the spread offense, the most glorified and overhyped offense ever created.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Even With Plaxico's idiocy it doesn't stop the freight train that is the New York Giants. We beat Washington and it should have been by more.

Mane the Vikings moped out Chi

The pack are done.

The Afc is total garbage.

Are the Panthers for real?

And the Cards are fading as per the course.

Are the Lions really going to go 0-16?

Re........Re.........Re.......p.......p ??????????

[TPoD]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that the AFC is total garbage. Right now here are my top 10 in power rankings:

1. Giants
2. Steelers
3. Titans
4. Panthers
5. Bucs
6. Ravens
7. Jets
8. Cowboys
9. Colts
10. Falcons

So that is 5 AFC and 5 NFC, but it is just that the Giants are far and away the best team. I really think that Pitt and the Titans are now alone in the second tier. Tennessee because of their record and Pitt because of their dominating performance. Then you have 5 through 10 that could probably beat each other up on a given day. You could probably also throw Minnesota, NE, and Washington into that pack as well.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Both the NFC and AFC West are garbage. Season's over for the Chargers. Broncos and Cardinals will get in the playoffs, and turn right around and go right home.

Redskins- Ravens game Sunday night. Finally get to see if the Prince's Ravens are for real this year.

Honestly, I would put the Falcons ahead of the Colts.

[TPoD]

Both the NFC and AFC West are garbage. Season's over for the Chargers. Broncos and Cardinals will get in the playoffs, and turn right around and go right home.

Redskins- Ravens game Sunday night. Finally get to see if the Prince's Ravens are for real this year.

Honestly, I would put the Falcons ahead of the Colts.

Well that is the thing. It is really tough to call this year once you get past the top tier teams. I don't even know for sure whether the Ravens are for real. They have pretty much clobbered the bad teams which any good team should do, but they really got their tails kicked by the Giants and Colts. I thought that the Eagles game was a pretty good barometer of their potential, but the Skins game is an even better one. If they win that one I think they are playoff bound.

[TPoD]

Is anyone as nervous about their team's chances as me this week? Ravens/Steelers = potential game of the year. If we win this game we could be really tough the rest of the way.

[PapaSmurf]

It's hard to be nervous about the Raiders. We suck as usual. I actually was the game in San Diego last week, and that was just abysmal. My girlfriend made me leave at the start of the 4th.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Local TV station strikes again. Pitt vs Baltimore at 4pm on CBS, well guess what? CBS moved the Broncos/Panthers game to 4pm, and we're forced to watch that one instead. I have no problem with this Panthers game, but there's no way it's a bigger game than Pitt and Baltimore. That one is basically for the AFC North title, IMO.

Whether Baltimore wins or loses Sunday, I hope they beat the crap out of the Cowboys, and finally make them tap out for this season.

It's cool that you were at the Oakland/SD game, Smurf. I wanted to see SD last time they were in NC, but I was too broke to go.

[Aku]

It's hard to be nervous about the Raiders. We suck as usual. I actually was the game in San Diego last week, and that was just abysmal. My girlfriend made me leave at the start of the 4th.

The Raiders are the worst franchise in sports. All they are is Al Davis' private circus. Having watched the Raiders in their glory days of the 70s, it's sad to see what they've become.

[Cuddly Knife]

My Cowboys are gonna womp on the G-men. If my Bengals play, they won't win.

[Glockstar]

You know, looking at the playoff races one has to admit that this is a pretty exciting time for the NFL season. However, I just can't get into it. Just a bad year for me - for my fantasy football team (thanks to Brian Westbrook :mad: ), and especially for my Packers.

The fracking Lions are on the road, so I'