Mass Effect Problem

[Lemonio]

well i got mass effect, and i installed it, and launched it AND!
it crashed...
anyway apparently my graphics card does not support 3.0 shaders which is required for mass effect
i have a radeon X850XT
so, should i get a new graphics card?
what are my choices?
am i going to need to get a really good one to play any upcoming games?

[Robert-The-Rambler]

well i got mass effect, and i installed it, and launched it AND!
it crashed...
anyway apparently my graphics card does not support 3.0 shaders which is required for mass effect
i have a radeon X850XT
so, should i get a new graphics card?
what are my choices?
am i going to need to get a really good one to play any upcoming games?

I couldn't get Mass Effect to run under Vista 64 bit Ultimate at all. I recommend for a great video card either the AMD/ATI Radeon 4850 or the Nvidia 9800 GTX Plus. Either way for about $200 US you will never look back.

What OS are you running?

Do you have PCI Express?

[PapaSmurf]

Yo Lemonio, I'm surprised you haven't run into this issue before now. Shader Model 3.0 is needed for Bioshock, Lost Planet and some other games that I couldn't get running last year. I for one had (and still do have) an AGP set up. I was rolling the X850XT like you and was hoping it would get me through the next couple years until I would have to get a PCI Express Mobo.

Anyways. You're going to need to upgrade the GPU if you want to play that particular game, or get an Xbox360. If all you need is a GPU, and your RAM and everything else is up to par it will be cheaper investment. However, and this is only if you have an AGP set up, if you're trying to get a newer and better videocard beware it's going to be on a limited lifespan do to the makers not supporting AGP set ups for the future. I'm currently running a X1950Pro Sapphire 512mb. It's the best AGP card out at the moment, even better than some of the new HD series. I don't think there is HD4850 schedule for an AGP release.

So you have three options:
1. Buy a new GPU that will have a limited lifespan for AGP setup
2. Buy XBOX360 if you don't want to up the GPU and wait for you're next overhaul.
3. Complete overhaul if you're running an AGP interface.

If you have a mobo that supports PCI-e, then just get yourself a new GPU and listen to what RTR said. Keep in mind though that newer GPU's tend to be power hogs and I ended up getting a new PSU when I got my X1950. Hoped that helped.

[BaneNWN]

x1950XT is currently the fastest agp card but there hard to find like papasmurf said go x1950 pro

[Lemonio]

i copied this out of my computer
Dell Dimension DIM4700
Intel(R) Pentium (R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz
2.99 GHz, 1.50 GB of RAM

also how do I know what kind of port I have? i think i have pci but i might have pci express

[Intangir]

According to Dell's Spec Page (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/specs.htm#wp1043338) for the DIM4700 and these spec pictures (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/sm/techov.htm#wp1052788) it'd appear that you do have a PCIe x16 slot.

[BaneNWN]

If you do have pci- express then lucky you.You have access to the best cards out there right now.ati 4850 can be found for 200 or less best bang for the buck at this time.Could probably also find an 8800 GT for 130$ which would be another great buy

[Lemonio]

i'm wondering though. if i get a really strong card, will my computer sustain it?

[Lemonio]

oh also i want something preferably less than 150. i don't want to be paying 500 bucks for a video card lol

[Lemonio]

oh also my power supply is an antec tp 430 watt

[BaneNWN]

oh also i want something preferably less than 150. i don't want to be paying 500 bucks for a video card lol

perfect card for you http://cgi.ebay.com/EVGA-GeForce-8800GT-Superclocked-DDR3-512MB-512P3-N802_W0QQitemZ330250811284QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3762Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[BaneNWN]

oh ya and your power supply is pushing it.if you get an 8800 GT id reccomend a 550 WATT power supply some here will say less would be adaquete but considering a power supply could totally short your whole PC if it isnt strong enough you should be safe and get a 550.I had an x1900xt which i think is pretty evenly matched with an 8800 GT as far as power consumption and my 450 watt didnt quite have enough juice.it would run fine till id play nwn 2 or any other power hungry game and it would shut my PC completley down.i didnt mess around i went out and bought an antec 650 watt earthwatts i got alittle more then i needed with the 8800 GT but now this allows me to upgrade to a future GPU without worry of it failing

[Lemonio]

hmmmm i replaced my power supply and graphics card already though...i'm not sure if i want to do it again

[PapaSmurf]

what bane said. My x1950 same scenario. It's better to have more than enough than less. I got me a rosewill (sp?) from newegg (I get everything from them actually come to thing about it). Besides if you get something over the top at least it will last you in case your next card is even more hungry.

[BaneNWN]

lemonio there is always a card like the 7950 GT if you didnt want to change your power supply then you could always get one of these your psu should be ok with it.Its on the same level as x1950 pro its deffinetley an upgrade from what you have now plus it supports 3.0 shaders http://cgi.ebay.com/XFX-Geforce-Extreme-7950-GT-PCI-E-512mb-DDR3-Video-Card_W0QQitemZ110269448496QQihZ001QQcategoryZ14293 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

the minimum reccomended psu for this card is Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp Amps.)

[Lemonio]

hmmm
the 8800GT is too expensive
the 7950GT is a little pricey but i'll look into it
btw a person on a different forum recommended this
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3244198&CatId=1826
what do you think?

[Robert-The-Rambler]

hmmm
the 8800GT is too expensive
the 7950GT is a little pricey but i'll look into it
btw a person on a different forum recommended this
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3244198&CatId=1826
what do you think?

Its a Radeon 3870 for $99.99 after rebate. For $30 more you will get way more performance.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125086

That will blow that 2600 garbage away!!!

[Lemonio]

well that looks very good, but can my power supply handle it?

[BaneNWN]

Its a Radeon 3870 for $99.99 after rebate. For $30 more you will get way more performance.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125086

That will blow that 2600 garbage away!!!

rtr his psu wouldnt beable to handle that.it could but hed really be pushing it

[Robert-The-Rambler]

rtr his psu wouldnt beable to handle that.it could but hed really be pushing it

I think it should be doable with an adapter from PCI Express 6 pin to 2 4 pin molex connectors. How many amps does your power supply have on the 12V rail Lemonio? That is the key.

[BaneNWN]

I think it should be doable with an adapter from PCI Express 6 pin to 2 4 pin molex connectors. How many amps does your power supply have on the 12V rail Lemonio? That is the key.

ya he might but it wouldnt be to wize in taking the chance of screwing his whole PC by skimping out.I had a decent 450 psu for my x1900xt card and it couldnt handle it under full load and im pretty sure the 3870 draws more juice.the official amd forums reccomends atleast 450 me myself and i would reccomend anything under 550.link herehttp://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd3800/requirements.html

[BaneNWN]

2600 XT is slower then the nvidia 7950 GT overall id get that over that 2600 XT there both good cards though.heres a comparison between the 2.http://review.zdnet.com/graphics-cards/ati-radeon-hd-2600/4505-8902_16-32489776.html

[Lemonio]

um i'll get whatever you reccomend as long as my power supply can handle it
how do i see how many amps on its 12v rails it has?
whatever that means

[Lemonio]

i'm not sure what you're looking for but i looked at my box and copied all the sentences containing the phrase 12V
ATX12v Version 2.2
Three 12v output circuits prove added system stability
then at the bottom there is a table
FIrst Row says output voltage
second row says max load charge
third row says min load charge
the 12V 1(subscript) column says 16A and 1A for max and min load charge
same thing for 12V 2 and 3
-12V column says .8A and 0A for max and min
could you clarify what exactly i'm looking for if this isn't the info you need?

[DBS]

the x1950 is a fine card. I upgraded to that after my x850 card and can run everything except for Crysis...did not even try that

[Robert-The-Rambler]

i'm not sure what you're looking for but i looked at my box and copied all the sentences containing the phrase 12V
ATX12v Version 2.2
Three 12v output circuits prove added system stability
then at the bottom there is a table
FIrst Row says output voltage
second row says max load charge
third row says min load charge
the 12V 1(subscript) column says 16A and 1A for max and min load charge
same thing for 12V 2 and 3
-12V column says .8A and 0A for max and min
could you clarify what exactly i'm looking for if this isn't the info you need?

With 3 12v rails you should be fine. That means you can do 48 amps on the 12v rail. That is enough. I'm wondering if your power supply has a PCI express connector. Usually it is labeled right on that particular cable.

With a 430 watt max power supply you should have enough wattage headroom given you seem to have plenty of current. Your processor probably draws about 100 wattts and the same for the Radeon 3870. You should be okay.

[Lemonio]

so you reccomend the radeon 3870? ok
yes i have a pci express card, so i'm sure my power supply will be fine

[BaneNWN]

I still say your cutting it close My last PSU had the same exact specs as yours and mine was 20 watts overall higher,and i couldnt even run an x1900xt.Look at this page before deciding knowone can really give you a definitive answer whether it is good enough or not.48 amps on 3 rails is good but you still have to take into account overall wattage.You want a definite answer of what will work go here fill in the blanks they will tell you what you need.I did a similar system as to what you have and i came out with 447 watt needed dont push it you want your psu to have some breathing room you dont want your psu running at 100% 24/7 your just asking for trouble then. so check this out and decide if what you have will do the job.http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html

[Lemonio]

could i use a power supply calculator?
wait nvm that's the link lol

[Lemonio]

woa i don't know most of that stuff, and it doesn't have an option for 1.5 gigabytes ram
i found one i can do, and although i guessed on most of the options, it came out to me needing 275 watts or something, with my current card
i think a went a little over with processor and ram because i didn't know what to choose
also what series is this card so i can put it into the calculator?

[Intangir]

Since:

1) You have a recent-spec PSU (ATX12V 2.2).
2) You have 430W which should be plenty of juice to handle most-any single card setup.
3) The above combined means you should (and appear to) have plenty of headroom on the 12V.

The only red flag I see is the Antec TruPower part which doesn't have a particularly good reputation (bad caps, low 5V, unreliability) on the internets. However, if you've been using it without trouble for a while already then it might be good to go.

Couldn't tell you what the best video card at that price point is since I haven't been keeping up, but I do know the 3870 is very efficient card and draws less power than a X1950 Pro (http://techreport.com/articles.x/13603/9).

[Lemonio]

what series is the 3870? because on the power supply calculator it seems to draw a lot less than the x1950 pro, unless i'm getting the wrong series

[BaneNWN]

Keep in mind a radeon 3870 takes up 2 slots so if you cant afford to lose a pci slot get the 8800 GT instead.Its a few bucks more and if you look hard enough u can find one on ebay for less then 130 plus its worth the extra 30 since it is a better all around card then the 3870.plus under full load an 8800 GT draws less power then a 3870 leaving you more head room with your PSU.Your PSU more then likely would be powerful enough im just the type to take the safe route after the experience i had.I still reccomend 550 watt overall for sufficient head room.your 48 amp on 12v rails are solid though

[Lemonio]

well according to intangir's chart 8800GT takes up more power 0.0

[Robert-The-Rambler]

what series is the 3870? because on the power supply calculator it seems to draw a lot less than the x1950 pro, unless i'm getting the wrong series

The 1950 pro is a quite a bit older. The advancements in power management recently are great.

[PapaSmurf]

stop hating on my card!

[Lemonio]

oh i see, so that series is probably not on the power supply calculator =O

[BaneNWN]

both cards are good so whatever u can get for the better deal.i still say your psu is pushing it

[Lemonio]

i'm thinking about maybe the 7950GT or the 1950xt or w/e it is, not sure i want to get a card and stress my psu.
i really don't care about the graphics, i just want everything to work lol
if i get something better but wont stress my psu, i just want to find the cheaper card
for some reason when i search for the 7950GT its like 200 bucks 0.o
not sure i want to get the radeon 3870

[Intangir]

i'm thinking about maybe the 7950GT or the 1950xt or w/e it is, not sure i want to get a card and stress my psu.
First off, none of these midrange cards are going to stress your PSU. That's FUD. If your PSU keels over when trying to run them, it's because it was going to die soon anyway. Secondly, and amusingly, both of those older cards you're considering would be more stressful than their successors (in this case, the 8800GT and the 3870). Hardware has been getting more efficient over the past few years, so logic like faster-uses-more-power no longer holds up so well. Proof of this can be easily seen in Intel's CPUs (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-power-consumption,1750-9.html) (all those are running at 3GHz, and note that the Core2Duos have two cores instead of one)--and that chart doesn't include the even more efficient Wolfdale (E8x00) C2Ds.

Similarly, although perhaps not as dramatic, video cards have been getting more efficient as well. Here's a page (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354&p=0) that attempts to catalog most video cards' power consumption. If text isn't your thang, here's one of the charts of the data:

http://mark.zoomcities.com/images/gfx/GFXpowerchartby3d.png

Stripped down to what's relevant to this discussion and you're left with (all peak 3D):

X850 XT = 69W

8800 GT = 78W
HD 3870 = 81W

7900GTX = 84W*
X1950XT = 96W

* - I took the 7900GTX over the 7950GT as the 7900GTX is more in-line with the X1950XT in performance--the 7950GT uses less power, but is also a bit slower card (http://techreport.com/articles.x/10779/6).

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Don't worry about you power supply. It will hold up.

[BaneNWN]

I cant believe the irresponsibilty of a few of you yes his psu may very well hold up im going to say this for the last time he would be pushing it and its simply not worth takking a chance of blowing his motherboard along with the possibilty of everything else.If you want to get an 3870 dont go less then 500 watts.Anytime you go less power then the reccomended you are taking a chance.I know from personal experience you 2 are just guesstimating not wize.read this right from ati.com themselfs they reccomend 450 watt or higher.ATI Radeon HD 3870 and ATI Radeon HD 3850 System Requirements

* PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard
* 450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX™)
* Certified power supplies are recommended
* 1GB of system memory recommended
* Installation software requires an optical drive
* DVD playback requires DVD drive
* Blu-ray™ / HD DVD playback requires a Blu-ray / HD DVD drive
* For a complete ATI CrossFireX™ system, additional ATI Radeon™ HD 3800 series graphics card(s), an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per board (included) are required

[Intangir]

Except he wouldn't be pushing it. With an 8800GT or a 3870, his system will only draw maybe 250W from the wall. That's not stressing a 430W PSU at all--rather it's an ideal load since PSU efficiency curves tend to be the highest around their middles (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page4.html) (e.g. 40-60% load). The only way it'd be pushing it is if the brand was Foxconn or Allied or any number of those POS featherweight units that case manufacturers often throw in for free when you buy a case--then any load is pushing it as far as I'm concerned. Even though Antec's rep hasn't been sterling of late, I'd still take it over those any day.

As for what AMD recommends: who cares? Their recommendations are more akin to a CYA than anything else, and they're quite liberal with the recommendation because they don't know what his configuration is nor anybody elses is for the matter. So they better recommend a 450W otherwise Johnny QuadFX or Joey Xeons or Peltier Jones might be in a spot of trouble.

Lastly, I could care less about anecdotal evidence (I'll just forget about all those systems I've assembled over the years) because it's all there in the numbers. Like the number "220" which shows up on my Kill-A-Watt during a game with Prime95 going crazy in the background. Or the similar numbers I get from TechReport or AnandTech or XbitLabs when they measure the same thing on bleeding edge configurations. And if counting watts isn't your forte you could instead count the number of corroborating threads on well-known, tech-savvy sites that say the same thing. Heck, here's two just on first page of ArsTechnica's C&CF forum:

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/77909585/m/330006992931
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/77909585/m/268000443931

[BaneNWN]

I find it funny how you can just say hes ok when you dont even know what all he hooks up to it.Those reccomendations are there for a reason they have been tested what you think they just throw numbers up there for the hell of it?Like i said he may very well run it for the pc's life span but he WILL be stressing that psu.Oh and those reccomendations on that forum you linked those guys are freaking morons one dude reccomending a 330 watt for a The specs so far:
- Intel Q9550 2.8ghz
- 4GB DDR2 ECC
- 1x ATI Radeon HD 4850 512 MB
- 1x 10k RPM velociraptor 300GB
- 1x DVD+/-RW

Tell you what man you keep listening to idiots like that and blow your own PC up.Not only did i have a bad experience but even aku had a high quality 380 watt psu and it wouldnt even run is 8600 GT and that sucks quite a bit less power then a 3870.Ya he might get lucky and it might run it great but its better to be safe then sorry spend a few extra bucks and you dont have to worry about it.For such a tech forum you linked those guys are complete morons.330 watt lol ok

[BaneNWN]

Oh and just so you understand i had a psu just like his with 3 12 v rails 16 amps and it WOULD NOT run my 8800 GT.That was an antec as well.So saying he wont be stressing a 430 is ridiculous

[PapaSmurf]

I can't front. I'm with Bane on this one. For a component that you can get for relatively cheap, you might as well get a decently powered PSU. There's no reason not too. Why be cheap and then end up frying your PC. Best to be safe than sorry.

Also Bane brought up a good point about everything that will be hooked up to his PC.

[Mochan]

I'm a bit in between on this one.

First off, I agree wit Bane: do NOT skimp on your PSU. There are 2 things you should never skimp on: your PSU, and your mobo. Simply because everything else connects to these two. The PSU in addition can fry the rest of your PC if it blows.

These are the two parts I never skimp on.

That said, your PSU does not need to be a 1000W monster. Intangir is correct in saying a 430W PSU can handle an 8800GT easy. That is, provided it's a good quality 430W PSU. I have an 8800GT and I am running on a 460W PSU no problems. It's a quality Enermax PSU and I have something like 42amps on the 12V rail. The 8800GT as I recall only requires something like 26amps. Like Lemonio said, your PSU should be good enough to handle any single card setup -- the only caveat being it's an Antec.

ATI does say they would rather you use 450W etc. but the truth is the card developers give that as a ballpark measure to make sure you have enough amps on the rail. Thing is this is not accurate, the important thing is the amperage on the voltage rails, but most people do not have the knowledge to look at this, and most sellers do not know this either. In terms of PSU people (buyers and sellers alike) tend to only talk in terms of wattage.

There are people who run 3870s and stuff on small form factor PCs like the Shuttle XPCs, which only have 300watt power supplies but they do just fine because the PSUs in question are quality ones with enough amps to go around.

[Lemonio]

now i'm really confused
if you reccomend a slightly more lower end card i'll get it
this argument is getting into theory and all i need is a regular card that supports shader 3.0
lol
bane what card do you reccomend

[Lemonio]

oh also on another forum the guy said i should run pci-e 1.0 cards and that pci-e 2.0 cards would not work on my computer, whatever that means

[PapaSmurf]

I'm a bit in between on this one.

First off, I agree wit Bane: do NOT skimp on your PSU. There are 2 things you should never skimp on: your PSU, and your mobo. Simply because everything else connects to these two. The PSU in addition can fry the rest of your PC if it blows.

These are the two parts I never skimp on.

That said, your PSU does not need to be a 1000W monster. Intangir is correct in saying a 430W PSU can handle an 8800GT easy. That is, provided it's a good quality 430W PSU. I have an 8800GT and I am running on a 460W PSU no problems. It's a quality Enermax PSU and I have something like 42amps on the 12V rail. The 8800GT as I recall only requires something like 26amps. Like Lemonio said, your PSU should be good enough to handle any single card setup -- the only caveat being it's an Antec.

ATI does say they would rather you use 450W etc. but the truth is the card developers give that as a ballpark measure to make sure you have enough amps on the rail. Thing is this is not accurate, the important thing is the amperage on the voltage rails, but most people do not have the knowledge to look at this, and most sellers do not know this either. In terms of PSU people (buyers and sellers alike) tend to only talk in terms of wattage.

There are people who run 3870s and stuff on small form factor PCs like the Shuttle XPCs, which only have 300watt power supplies but they do just fine because the PSUs in question are quality ones with enough amps to go around.

Haha Mochan. I didn't want to get into the rails and amperage myself as it was something i had to heavy research into when buying my last PSU. 3 12+ amp rails and the yada yada yada. What mochan say is true. If you got a 330 watt with enough amps on the 12+ rail you'd be fine, but as a I said in my last post, you might as well go with something with more watts and perhaps to seperate V 12+ amp rails (don't know if I'm wording that right, but it's something to that effect) than sale yourself short.

Also I think the biggest plus in buying extra power on the PSU is that you will be future proof as well so in a couple years when you're looking to buy a new card, you're not coming here asking these same questions and instead you'll have a quality component that will work through a couple upgrades.

[Intangir]

oh also on another forum the guy said i should run pci-e 1.0 cards and that pci-e 2.0 cards would not work on my computer, whatever that means
PCIe 2.0 is backwards and forwards compatible with PCIe 1.x according to PCI-SIG themselves:


Q5: Then PCIe 2.0 must be backward compatible with PCIe 1.1 and 1.0?

A5: Yes. The PCIe Base 2.0 specification supports both the 2.5GT/s and 5GT/s signaling technologies. A device designed to the PCIe Base 2.0 specification may support 2.5GT/s, 5GT/s or both. However, a device designed to operate specifically at 5GT/s must also support 2.5GT/s signaling. The PCIe Base specification covers chip-to-chip topologies on the system board. For I/O extensibility across PCIe connectors, the Card Electromechanical (CEM) and ExpressModule™ specifications will also need to be updated, but this work will not impact mechanical compatibility of the slots, cards or modules. Currently, the PCI-SIG is defining the PCIe CEM 2.0 specification which has been released to members for review at v0.5. There are currently no plans to adapt the PCIe Mini CEM specification for the faster bit rate as the market need has not yet materialized.
However, though the specification is set up to be backwards compatible, several exceptions have been found in the implementations. As far as I know, all PCIe 2.0 video cards work fine in PCIe 1.1 boards (see: Mochan), but I've heard that some VIA chipsets with PCIe 1.0a won't run PCIe 2.0 cards like a 8800GT. As far as I can tell your chipset, the 915G Express, has PCIe 1.0a. But your chipset brand is Intel, who seem to have followed the spec true.

In other words, a PCIe 2.0 should work just fine in your machine. To corroborate this, here are two posts from other people with your Dell 4300 machine with PCIe 2.0 video cards:

http://callofduty.filefront.com/news/Weekly_Poll_Results_What_kind_of_system_do_you_pla y_on;38360 -- (Post #2)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=108213&page=4 -- (Posts #52 & 53)

That said, I think the 9600GT would be a great fit. It's a bit cheaper than the 8800GT (vanilla flavors look to be around $125), performs in between the 3850-3870 and the 8800GT, and draws less power than your X850XT (yeah, sorry, had to bring that up again).

[Aku]

Don't worry about you power supply. It will hold up.

Don't ever skimp on the psu. Ever. It used to be you didn't even have to think about your total psu wattage or how many amps are on whcih rail, but today it is critical. Even if you think 450w is enough, you're crazy if you don't cushion it with some extra wattage. And so what, you pay an extra 20 bucks say for another 50 watts to give you that comfort zone. And even if the card you have technically works with your psu, you have to factor in that maybe you might be adding another hard drive one day, a couple more fans, etc., etc. There is no reason to split hair on a psu. I need 500W to run my pc with an 8600GT and all I have in there is one combo drive and one hard drive.

[BaneNWN]

I'm a bit in between on this one.

First off, I agree wit Bane: do NOT skimp on your PSU. There are 2 things you should never skimp on: your PSU, and your mobo. Simply because everything else connects to these two. The PSU in addition can fry the rest of your PC if it blows.

These are the two parts I never skimp on.

That said, your PSU does not need to be a 1000W monster. Intangir is correct in saying a 430W PSU can handle an 8800GT easy. That is, provided it's a good quality 430W PSU. I have an 8800GT and I am running on a 460W PSU no problems. It's a quality Enermax PSU and I have something like 42amps on the 12V rail. The 8800GT as I recall only requires something like 26amps. Like Lemonio said, your PSU should be good enough to handle any single card setup -- the only caveat being it's an Antec.

ATI does say they would rather you use 450W etc. but the truth is the card developers give that as a ballpark measure to make sure you have enough amps on the rail. Thing is this is not accurate, the important thing is the amperage on the voltage rails, but most people do not have the knowledge to look at this, and most sellers do not know this either. In terms of PSU people (buyers and sellers alike) tend to only talk in terms of wattage.

There are people who run 3870s and stuff on small form factor PCs like the Shuttle XPCs, which only have 300watt power supplies but they do just fine because the PSUs in question are quality ones with enough amps to go around.I agree for the most part and i dont think there reccomendations of a 450 watt is an absolute scienc however when messing with something that could potentially cost a grand or more in damage is not something i would want to test.But i dissagree that there using that number to make sure you have enough amps on the rails.Watts and rails really have nothing to do with eachother.Ive seen 500 watt power supplies with a single 12 v 18 amp rail and you know as well as i that wouldnt run squat today.In this case id take a 400 watt with 2 12 v 16 amp rails over this any day but overall wattage is still important just as much so as 12 v rails the only difference is the overall wattage is easily spelled out for us not so much so when knowing what your getting with the rails

[Aku]

I had a 300W generic supply with two 18amp 12v rails and it ran my 8600GT, but I didn't trust it. Then I got a 380W Antec with similar ampage on the 12V and every now and then the pc wouldn't boot. You just can't trust the specs on these psu's you buy. So I got a 500W with plenty of amps everywhere and it's fine.

[Lemonio]

as i said, i'm not buying a new psu. the reason- probably next year, i'm going to buy a new computer
i don't want to buy another psu because it would be a waste of money since i'll probably get a new computer soon
the only reason i want a new graphics card is to play mass effect
therefore i just want it to work perfectly with my computer and be relatively cheap, all i'm looking for
doesn't need to be a good graphics card
all i want to happen is for everything to work

[Lemonio]

oh also i was told the 7950GT doesn't support dx10 and won't work with my power supply

[Lemonio]

i was reading reviews of the 2600xt and apparently it can run everything on high and crysis on medium so i think it would be all i would need, what do you think?

[Lemonio]

what about the x1950xt or w/e you're running
also the reccomended video cards for mass effect are

NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTX
ATI X1800 XL
what about these?
what about a 7900GS?

[BaneNWN]

lemonio radeon 3850 is the best card for your budget and psu http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3584118&CatId=3670

[Lemonio]

only question is, i heard bad reviews about diamond, or will it not matter?

[DBS]

I am sure there are other makers of that card as well. Also you could go with a xbox 360 till you upgrade. I got one as a gift for my bday and you know..it is quite capable and Mass Effect is out for it as well. You might be surprised to find it will hold you over till you are ready for that new rig.

I am enjoying it and I am pretty much a pc snob...

[Lemonio]

meh.
i'll stick with the pc.

[BaneNWN]

I am sure there are other makers of that card as well. Also you could go with a xbox 360 till you upgrade. I got one as a gift for my bday and you know..it is quite capable and Mass Effect is out for it as well. You might be surprised to find it will hold you over till you are ready for that new rig.

I am enjoying it and I am pretty much a pc snob...dude ur a pc gamer how freakin dare you try to pimp an xcrap 360

[Intangir]

Performance-wise I'd rate most of the discussed cards more-or-less like this:

X850XT > 2600XT > 7900GS > 8600GTS > 7950GT > 7900GTX & X1950XTX > 3850 > 8800GS (aka 9600GSO) & 2900XT > 3870 & 9600GT > 8800GT

Although some of those are very close in performance to their neighbors that it's really tough to call and could go either way depending on the game. I wouldn't recommend getting a 2600XT unless the price was free or extremely close to it since the performance is almost identical to what you already have (in some cases, might be worse).

If you want a simple way to compare cards you could try messing around with TomsHardware's Desktop VGA Charts (http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards/warhammer-mark-of-chaos-v1-6,581.html). It might not be totally accurate, but it should at least give you a ballmark estimate.

If you're playing in a low resolution (1280x1024 and lower), then you probably won't see a huge difference amongst the latter cards since you'll mostly be limited by your CPU. Also if you're running in those types of resolutions and don't use much AA/AF, you can probably get away with a 256MB card if you're just looking for a stop-gap.

As for power-wise (again, not really relevant to you; just harassing the unbelievers):

7900GS (45W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1650xt_4.html#sect0)) < 8600GTS (47W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd2600xt-gddr4_5.html#sect0)) < 2600 (49W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd2600xt-gddr4_5.html#sect0)) < 9600GT (60W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0)) < 7950GT (61W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce7950gt_3.html#sect0)) < 3850 (63W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0)) < X850 (69W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-consumption2006_6.html)) < 8800GT (78W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0)) < 3870 (81W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-bliss9600gt-512gs_7.html#sect0)) < 7900GTX (84W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce7950gt_3.html#sect0)) < X1950XTX (125W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-x1950xtx_7.html#sect0)) < 2900XT (161W (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd3870-hd3850_13.html#sect0))

[Aku]

Lemonio, you don't want to spend 400 bucks on a console and have to buy the game all over again when you can get a new graphics card for under 100 bucks that will play the game fine. I bought an 8600GT with 256mb ddr3 on ebay for $72 new, and it plays all of today's games, most at very high settings (a game like Crysis, medium settings). It runs games like Oblivion and Fear perfectly smooth at high settings. Just keep your eye on ebay, and get the card you want for a good price.

[Lemonio]

"Well its pci-e 2.0 , for the price its not to bad but not sure if your mobo supports pci-e 2.0."
anyone know what this means?

[Aku]

That's pci express, That's the standard today. 2.0 is the current generation of pci express. It's backwards compatible, so no problem.

[Lemonio]

is shader 4.1 backwards compatible with shader 3.0? because the 3850 has shader 4.1

[Intangir]

Yes, any higher-level Pixel Shader will have full downward compatibility for all other previous pixel shaders (e.g. a card with 4.1 capability can run 3.0 and 2.0 and 1.1 etc.). This is true of DirectX in general (e.g. a video card compliant with DirectX 10 can also have DirectX 9.0c shaders and features mapped onto its hardware).

One caveat to this is that to actually get PS4.0 and 4.1 functionality you will need to run Windows Vista as they are DirectX 10 and 10.1 features respectively and the DirectX 10.x API is currently restricted to Windows Vista. For that reason, and that many/most gamers are still running Windows XP, you probably won't see games requiring PS4.x to run any time soon.

[Lemonio]

oh so if i get that card i wont have pixel shader 4.1 w/e it is because its for vista? 0.o that seems odd loll

[Lemonio]

thanks for the help everyone