Help me choose a HDTV!

[ilnadmy]

My parents want to buy an HDTV for the house, and after going out and looking at a bunch we've narrowed it down to a few. Now I don't know the difference between LCD and Plasma, as well as what are the important things to look for in a TV, so I'm going to post a few options and I would be very grateful if you guys could help me choose which would be the best option.

Pioneer Kuro 50" Widescreen (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-5080HD.Kuro?tab=B)

Plasma TV, 2 megapixel resolution, apparently gives very dark blacks, but its greens are kind of yellowish. Widescreen, but I don't think it's 1080p (it has a resolution of WXGA - 1365 x 768...what HD resolution is that? 720p?). I found it to be very clear, and unlike the other TVs on this list I didn't see much pixelation on the edges of images (but then again, a Blu-ray DVD was playing on this TV whereas there were still images of landscapes on the other TVs, so maybe the images were not hi-def and had to be upscaled).

Sony Bravia 52" W Series (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665405479)

LCD, full 1080p resolution, Dynamic Contrast Ratio : 30,000:1, On-screen Contrast Ratio : 3,000:1. Nice TV, I saw some blacks and blues wherever there was a really bright object near a very dark object (for instance, black houses against a bright sky, you can see some weird coloring at the edge between the two colors).

The other two TVs I couldn't find online for some reason, but they are 52" LG TVs, one is an LCD and the other is a Plasma.

My one concern with the non-Pioneer TVs is that when there is a bright color next to a dark color, it seems that there is some weird coloring in between the two. Also, there is always some sort of pixelation at the edges of the images, like some sort of aliasing. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it kind of strikes me as wrong. I also like the fact that the Pioneer is widescreen, it gives it a different feel from other TVs.

I don't know what is important to look at as far as HDTVs, but I'm guessing contrast ratio? I think the LG Plasma has the highest contrast ratio of all the TVs (26,000:1), and the Pioneer has something like 20,000:1.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any help in deciding between these different TVs.

[Aylmer]

Well, if I had to go with that size, I'd go with the sony. but, you are going to be able to see the artifacts you mention on any tv that size, since you are looking at about 40 pixels per inch at 1080p (1080p is 1920x1080 pixel res or so). Compare this to a standard computer monitors resolution of 72 pixels per inch. Also, lately there is a new 'feature' about a 120mhz scan rate for gaming. But I have no problems with my PS3 on my tv.

I just recently got a new flatscreen HDTV, and it was not my first. One thing I took into consideration is just how much heat they put out (I live in AZ and avoid heat build up indoors whenever possible). They put out a lot! Bigger=hotter.

Also, more than one CTV input is nice. If you have cable or sat-tv, it's nice to have a standard antenna hooked up to the second input. That's because over-the-air HD image quality is way better than what comes over cable, even if you have the HD option. So, if ER or House (my wife's faves) or some other broadcast network show comes on, she can switch inputs with the remote. And I like to check out some of the local news babes with my coffee in the morning, too. Some look great in HD...and some don't :(

I have heard that Plasma TVs are much more fragile when it comes to accidental bumps and stuff.

One thing I'd advise is that if you are buying a really big tv like the one you are looking at, pay the extra money to have it delivered. Here, if you take the big box home yourself, open it up and the tv is damaged, you are hosed, since the dealer doesn't know if it's your fault or not and likely will not do a free replacement. I told my mom to do that, she did, and Best Buy delivered, opened the box, and the screen was cracked. They brought out another one without any hassle.

so good luck and happy shopping!

[Mochan]

You should wait for joquito to make a post here.

My take? Get the Bravia if the budget allows it.

The Pioneer Kuro will do 1080i or 720p, that's the resolution of my TV right now. Mine though is only a 32"


Regarding plasma vs LCD and other TV types, here's what I have to say:

LCDs generally look best with bright pictures. They are the most "precise" when it comes to displaying pixels and in my opinion give the best picture quality. The drawback is that the dark colors are more suspect as it is difficult to get "black" from white light. LCDs due to their precision also tend to have higher resolution than plasma.

Plasma is less precise in rendering an image and you get a sort of muted "anti aliasing" effect similar to what you get on CRTs. Plasmas are suspected of having shorter life (and you could burn your screen in ) and they eat more power and are noisier (LCDs are generally dead silent, plasmas usually have fans like your PC). Plasmas used to have a big advantage in response time and price but today's LCDs are sophisticated enough to not have any ghosting and have become a lot cheaper. Also plasmas tend to be more "vibrant" with bright pictures and display better blacks.

Strictly speaking I think plasma looks better on the whole especially for movies but if we're talking precisiou like you want to use the TV as a desktop monitor, LCDs are way better. If it's something for the family room this is not an issue.

Another technology is DLP but I greatly prefer LCD to its image quality. DLP does black better than plasma or LCD but is far less vibrant than either. Not sure if people still like this tech? For me LCD is the way to go.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I've only had limited experience with HDTVs. I'm about a year into my Olevia 27" LCD 1080i, and I love it. Since this was a smaller tv, I was able to throw it in the backseat bring it home. For a big one, I would agree with Aylmer and have the store deliver it.

I do have one question for you, or rather a thing to compare with the tvs: the amount of inputs in the back (and sometimes front). HDMIs, Components, Composite (for last-gen systems), S-Video, VGA, VGA- Components, etc. I'm not sure, but there should also be an input for your PC if you decide to hook one up to it.

Also, how easy is it to switch from one input to another on each tv? This isn't a deal breaker by any means, but the easier it is to go from HDMI (PS3) to regular tv to Component (360, yeah, you'll have one soon :)), the less aggravating it is. The only negative I can find about my tv is that anytime I want to switch inputs, I have to go in order, with just one button to press. Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI, VGA, VGA-Component, Tuner (TV) in that order, each and every time. :mad:

[trebor]

Another technology is DLP but I greatly prefer LCD to its image quality. DLP does black better than plasma or LCD but is far less vibrant than either. Not sure if people still like this tech? For me LCD is the way to go.

I've got a Toshiba 42" 720p/1080i DLP - I love it. As long as you aren't looking to mount your tv to a wall, than a DLP will not only give you a comparable picture to both LCD and Plasma, it will do it for far less money. DLP's are by far the best bang for the buck.

A lot of people complain about the fact that the DLP bulb will eventually burn out and need replacing, which can cost upwards of $350 - 400 dollars. Though I see this as a positive - as soon as you replace the bulb you will see a picture as bright and vivid as the day you bought it. Comparitively, when LCDs and Plasmas lose picture quality after years of use, they are pretty much junk - requiring a new TV purchase.

So, one of DLPs biggest weaknesses are their biggest strength - as long as you are willing to replace a bulb, they will last you a lifetime.

[ilnadmy]

I haven't heard of DLP before, but my parents want something you can mount to a wall, so I guess it's either LCD or Plasma.

All the TVs have about 5 or 6 inputs...I think two or three HDMI inputs, and three composite? I didn't actually check.

I'm not really looking to use the screen as a monitor for my computer, just for watching TV, movies, and for playing PS3. It's going to be placed in the living room downstairs, which is a large room with couches along the walls.

My concern with the LCD screens we saw was that when they showed sports clips, when people were running around you could see some sort of motion blur. This wasn't quite as pronounced on the Plasma sets we saw.

but, you are going to be able to see the artifacts you mention on any tv that size, since you are looking at about 40 pixels per inch at 1080p (1080p is 1920x1080 pixel res or so). Compare this to a standard computer monitors resolution of 72 pixels per inch.

So the artifacting is something normal? I shouldn't be concerned that there is artifacting on the Sony LCD TV? There was some on the Pioneer Plasma TV, but not as much as the Sony. Not sure if it's a Plasma vs. LCD issue.

I'm also wondering about the color bleeding over when there are bright colors next to dark colors. Is that only an LCD issue?

[Cuddly Knife]

I'm not sure, but there should also be an input for your PC if you decide to hook one up to it. The VGA is for the PC. Or at least, I have my 360 connected via VGA, and the TV reads the source as PC.



The only negative I can find about my tv is that anytime I want to switch inputs, I have to go in order, with just one button to press. Composite, S-Video, Component, HDMI, VGA, VGA-Component, Tuner (TV) in that order, each and every time. :mad:
Bummer. My remote has buttons for each connection(VGA, HDMI, composite, DVI, S-vid, ect), and when I turn on a new system, if the TV is on, it recognizes this and switches automatically.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Bummer. My remote has buttons for each connection(VGA, HDMI, composite, DVI, S-vid, ect), and when I turn on a new system, if the TV is on, it recognizes this and switches automatically.

That's a cool feature, Cuddly. I'm jealous, now.

I've been wondering if I would be able to switch directly to the desired input with another remote. I'm so used to the original, though, to the point where I can always switch inputs or channels w/o looking at it.

[Mochan]

DLP is generally too big and bulky to mount so looks like you'll have to go with LCD or Plasma. I don't know trebor about DLPs having comparable image quality to LCD and plasma, I have seen a lot of examples of DLP vs. LCD/Plasma and the image quality isn't comparable at all in my opinion, even on high end DLPs (Samsung and JVC were the best ones I saw) but maybe I just didn't see a good DLP yet. My friend has a 50" Samsung DLP Projector and the image quality isn't even close to my LCD's. It looks to washed out. But I do agree DLP is cheaper *AND* will potentially last you longer than LCD or especially Plasma ever will. LCD at least you can also have the backlight replaced.


<i>My concern with the LCD screens we saw was that when they showed sports clips, when people were running around you could see some sort of motion blur. This wasn't quite as pronounced on the Plasma sets we saw.</i>

Yeah ghosting occurs on LCDs, this is mostly not evident in the better LCDs with really fast response time but generally plasma is better for this than LCDs are. Ghosting occured on the Bravia you saw? Wow Sony must be sucking a lot if their highend flagship Bravias are still ghosting like that. My el-cheapo 14ms LCD monitor from 5 years back didn't have any ghosting. Ironically my current LCD HDTV has evidence of some ghosting (only with black images though) and I was bummed out a bit when I noticed it. I guess it's harder to get rid of it on a big 32" screen.


<I>Ilnadmy
So the artifacting is something normal? I shouldn't be concerned that there is artifacting on the Sony LCD TV? There was some on the Pioneer Plasma TV, but not as much as the Sony. Not sure if it's a Plasma vs. LCD issue.</i>

It's an issue with both, however it is more evident on LCDs because as I mentioned LCDs are more "precise" and what you are actually seeing are errors in the encoding of the video. They are especially noticeable on big screens where the pixels are just plain too big.

On Plasmas you get a muted "anti-aliasing" effect which is why it is usually not as noticeable because the color bleeds between pixels more on a plasma, as opposed to LCDs where the pixels tend to be more precise.

This is something that you cannot really get around right now with current TV technology, but if it's an issue and you notice the Pioneer plasma gives you a better picture, then by all means get the Pioneer! Don't let anyone on this forum dissuade you, use your own eyes to decide!


<I>I'm also wondering about the color bleeding over when there are bright colors next to dark colors. Is that only an LCD issue?</i>

This is due to the nature of how LCDs work -- the problem is actually in how LCDs display black or dark colors -- LCDs use the LCD crystals to color the light coming form its backlight to display an image. If that color is black, the crystals try to "shut off" the light basically giving you absence of light from light. It isn't quite perfect so you still see light "bleed" from the blackness. If you've seen a black screen on an LCD you'll notice that typically the edges of the screen especially aren't quite black but are whitish or yellowish -- this is the light bleeding through. This is an issue that is more aggravated on LCDs as it is not as apparent on DLPs or Plasmas.

BTW regarding PC input most highend HDTVs have a VGA input, but as long as you have HDMI you can connect a PC to it with the right video card and cables -- and just about any videocard today will be able to do it.


<I>I've been wondering if I would be able to switch directly to the desired input with another remote. I'm so used to the original, though, to the point where I can always switch inputs or channels w/o looking at it.</i>

Cuddly's TV indeed has an awesome auto-switch feature, I remember he told me about it before when I first got an HDTV or when we were discussing PCs vs. Consoles or some such. In your case you can probably find a universal remote somewhere that has specific buttons for Video 1, Video 2, HDMI, etc. and this is probably the best you can hope for.

My TV has a special "input button" which opens a menu on the TV where you can select the inputs. I don't think you can find a remote that does this for your TV since the menu is a software option on the TV, but you never know.

[PapaSmurf]

My cousin used to work at Best Buy and I used to work at Circuit City. I'll tell you this right now. Pioneer hands down makes the best Plasma when it comes to high end. Anyone that knows about T.V.'s will tell you that, so I'm not surprised you fancied the the Pioneer.

With that said, my dad recently bought a Panasonic DLP Rear end projection at 61" (huge) and we also had a Vizio Plasma 50". The Plasma is only 720P but the DLP is 1080P. Since my parents are moving to the Hawaii and they didn't want ship the T.V.s they gave me a choice of which one to pick. To be honest, the difference in the plasma and the DLP in my case isn't really noticeable. The plasma is alot brighter, but in terms of the actual picture, I think they are both superb. I think with plasma's the brightness of them and the vibrancy of the colors sells alot of people, but in all seriousness when you put the two side by side (at least in my case).

Another thing you have consider when you go look at the T.V.'s at the store is that not every T.V. is hooked up correctly to give you the correct HD image so one T.V. may look better than the other when in actuality it's because the other T.V. isn't producing HD. I have a DLP in my possession and I'm extremely happy and unless you're extremely anal about picture colors and what not, you and you're family will be too.

Also the smaller the TV is the better it is going to look as has been mentioned

[Mochan]

<I>PapaSmurf
The plasma is alot brighter, but in terms of the actual picture, I think they are both superb. I think with plasma's the brightness of them and the vibrancy of the colors sells alot of people, but in all seriousness when you put the two side by side (at least in my case).</i>

Yeah that makes the difference in my book. Looking at DLPs just looks so dull in comparison. I agree the actual picture rendition is very comparable but I don't just look at that I look at the whole viewing effect.

It's similar to people who love bright headphones, when they come across a headphone that may have a good low end but a not-so-stellar high end it just sounds horrible.

[T.Tashi]

Joquito can break it down for you all kinds of ways.

Signal processing is important, though I'm sure that's not a worry with either of those TVs. I find LCDs to be more "game friendly" personally. Gaming on a plasma is sweet, but you have to take some steps to care for it. Though many come with anti-burn/retention features these days.

If you're having odd coloring a simple calibration might fix it. It's just that having someone make a house call to do that is relatively expensive. At the very least you could google the TV model and calibration and you might find some settings and get an idea of where to adjust it to for your room.

But my opinion is if you're gonna be gaming on it, I'd go with the Sony.

[ilnadmy]

I'm kind of leaning towards the Pioneer honestly, but that's only because I feel the color bleed on the Sony might annoy me going forward. Then again, I'm not sure if it's a problem with the TV or with the video they were showing. The Sony is going to have a sale next week where they might give away a free sound system with the TV (either that or a free PS3, and I have one of those...), so I'll wait a bit and see what they offer.

[Mochan]

It might be an issue with the video they are using. I honestly don't see any color bleed on my LCD TV. Or it could be that particular set has issues. I never had bleeding problems with my LCD, the only image problems I have are a bit of ghosting when I have a black image against a dark background (weird but I don't have it against a light background) and the usual "black is not black" problem of LCDs.

But again, pick what looks best for you. Don't let my LCD bias stop you from getting the Pioneer.

[Glockstar]

I don't know trebor about DLPs having comparable image quality to LCD and plasma, I have seen a lot of examples of DLP vs. LCD/Plasma and the image quality isn't comparable at all in my opinion, even on high end DLPs (Samsung and JVC were the best ones I saw) but maybe I just didn't see a good DLP yet. My friend has a 50" Samsung DLP Projector and the image quality isn't even close to my LCD's. It looks to washed out.

There must have been something wrong with that DLP tv then, Mochan. Because DLP picture quality is just about flawless. And with DLP there really is no "low end" or "high end" subdivision of tv's, like there are with LCD and Plasma. There is only "720p" and "1080p". The blacks are true; the picture is bright; the colors rich; and for gaming there is nothing better.

The only drawbacks to DLP is the aforementioned bulb that needs replacing (though their lifespans are supposedly getting long, and they aren't supposed to be anywhere near as expensive to replaces as was first let on a couple of years ago) and the "rainbow effect" that 1 out of every million people can see. Oh and size: DLP tv's don't come any smaller than 40".

As you can tell, I'm a supporter of DLP. But LCD can be good too. As long as you go "high end".

[Mochan]

Well I guess I was born to be an LCD lover. I really, really can't even compare DLP to Plasma or LCD, the overall picture in my eyes is on a completely different level and this isn't just a single set we are talking about this is how all DLPs I've seen everywhere look in comparison to LCDs or plasmas.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Well I guess I was born to be an LCD lover. I really, really can't even compare DLP to Plasma or LCD, the overall picture in my eyes is on a completely different level and this isn't just a single set we are talking about this is how all DLPs I've seen everywhere look in comparison to LCDs or plasmas.

For a long time I've been such a huge supporter of CRT rear projection. I would describe DLP as offering a picture similar to those CRTs with great black levels but they are so much dimmer than my "lowly" Dynex 37" LCD that does 1366 * 768 720p resolution in my bedroom. LCD just jumps off the screen with a glow that is just not there with CRTs, and DLPs. I've never had a Plasma but I would imagine that with brigtness ratings of 1500 compared to 500 or less the glow must be even more pronounced. Naturally Plasma draws a lot more power than a comparable LCD. (Like 3 times the power)

With black levels improving every year the LCD HDTV has a very bright future.

[Mochan]

Yeah, those are my feelings exactly RtR. It's great that DLP brings a picture that is similar to CRT, but again the picture is very washed out compared to LCDs and Plasmas, there is just no vibrancy at all.

LCDs right now are at a point where, although the black levels and viewing angle are still not perfect, they are almost negligible and like I have said there is nothing to complain about on my LCD set. The only problem I ever had with it was this slight ghosting problem (I guess you get what you pay for -- I got a very cheap no-name brand) that only occurs when there is a black object against a dark background -- usually I see it when I look at the dark silhouette of buildings against a night sky in games.

I know a lot goes to personal taste and I can understand that DLP fans may prefer that kind of picture, but I personally don't see them comparable at all. LCD is just so much more "alive." And again DLPs are "fuzzier" compared to LCDs. They just don't look as sharp -- I love their blacks but the actual image rendition is more blurred than on an LCD, this is just the nature of the technology.

This fuzziness has its advantages though -- it acts like a sort of "free anti-aliasing" which you will never get on an LCD. It's great for some applications but not so great for others (like for displaying small text). Makes 3D games look more "rounded" though which is a good thing.

[Aylmer]

I recently bought a 32" Sharp Aquos LCD 1080p tv. I could have gotten a 40-42" Samsung for about the same amount of money, but the image was so frikkin' sweet in the store that I could not pass it by. To be truthful, there are not that many 32" 1080p sets available. But my priorities with it are (1) gaming (2) wife's tv viewing (I seldom partake of night time tv) (3) then BR movies. so I went with the smaller tv.

I had an older and larger (36") Westinghouse 720p flatscreen and sold it recently, and I have a little 19" Samsung 1080i set in my home office. But with the 32" I can get close enough to use headphones and blast the audio (with those games that are worth it) and still have the screen fill my field of view perfectly, plus the pixel res is so tight and the screen is so bright it's like entering another world.

For families and larger groups and for general tv viewing plus renting a movie now and then, I think a larger set is great. But if the primary purpose is gaming, 32-36" LCD is best, IMO.

[Mochan]

Yeah. I am so happy with my 32" LCD for gaming. My friend has a 50" and I feel it's just a littl too big for the purpose unless you are a good distance away from the screen -- but when I game I like to be close to the screen especially for PC Gaming.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

CRT's are the best I have 42 Bravia and I love it but the picture isn't that much better than my old CRT Sony Wega. I know a few people who've upgraded from CRT to either plasma or LCD and outside of the convience of the thinness and the weight picture quality hasn't been really a improvement for any one I know.

[Mochan]

CRTs have the best overall picture quality in my opinion. Not too bright, not too dark, the blacks are perfect, etc. etc. The only real drawback is the size and power consumption. And perhaps that as they age (like after 5 years time) the picture quality starts getting fuzzier -- not a noticeable or deal-breaking problem until at least 10 or even 15 years though especially for a high quality model.

I have said many times my old 17" CRT monitor for my PC had an overall better picture than my 17" LCD at the time, actually the LCD looked better with more vibrancy but the CRT had a more balanced output and did not have annoying native resolution issues that plague LCDs.

[ilnadmy]

We finally settled on a 46" widescreen Sony LCD which we've had for a few days now. Very impressive, I like the TV. It's big, it's loud (sound-wise), and very very clear when outputting in 1080p. Unfortunately, for SD transmissions it has that pixelation that's annoying sometimes. It's not terrible, but it's not great either. If only it had an upscaler like the PS3's DVD upscaler, then it would have been amazing. Still, I'm very impressed with it, and my PS3 loves it to death. My friend brought over MGS4 yesterday and it looks sublime. Assassin's Creed and GTA4 are also quite impressive, and while Ninja Gaiden Sigma doesn't have the graphical bells and whistles of the other games, it still looks fantastic.

I will say that the blacks tend to blend into each other sometimes, which gets annoying in dark scenes. Overall though, great TV.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Congrats on the TV. MGS4 definitely looks great on HDTV. Motorstorm and Uncharted look great on there as well.