Nintendo still basically clueless.

[mass]

This is an article entitled, "What's Eating Nintendo." and consists of a Q & A session with George Harrison of Nintendo. Interesting stuff and shows that Nintendo is glacier slow in figuring out their problems.

http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,4364,1364679,00.asp

Some excerpts.

EGM: What will you do for the next system, then, in terms of third-party support? What would you do differently in the future?
George: Certainly we have to get [third parties] development kits on a timely basis. They need their kits a year and half or two years in advance to really make a quality game that'll be ready to go at launch.

Ya think George?! Whoa, what genius over at HQ finally figured that one out.

Here's a classic, making you wonder if this donkey has been living under a rock.

" I think, in Sony's case, they're doing very few things wrong. While they don't have their own ability to produce huge megahit titles, they were in the right place at the right time with the size, and they got things like Ridge Racer, and particularly Grand Theft Auto, to really drive their whole platform."

Ya ever hear of a little racing series called GT there, George, you know GT3, that game. Ridge Racer?! You have to effin' kidding me. Got news for you George, sony has other big selling games, like Socom. Ratchet and Clank sold about half a million in japan alone, you tool. How do these people get their jobs?

Another example of total effin' cluelessness regarding online.

"This holiday season and the following year will be very telling for online gaming, because consumers' free one-year subscriptions will run out and they'll have to decide -- do I spend, or not? That, or our competitors will have to decide whether to continue giving it away for free. So I don't think that we're missing anything by not being involved."

What free one-year subscription? From frickin' who? Sony doesn't charge, neither have ps2 partners. And the xbox live kit cost me $64.99 can + tax. And oh, by the way, George, MS set their pricing scheme for xbox live a while back. You might want to stay up of things, knucklehead, since you're actually in the business. How do the interviewers keep a straight face talking to a guy like this.

So when's the next Gamecube coming out. Talk about a vague reply.

EGM: When will we see the next GameCube?
George: We haven't fixed a date yet, but we've said that we understand the importance of not being late next time, so we'll be ready with our competitors. Following the press, it looks increasingly like Sony will have difficulty making the fall of 2005. We're working to meet them in the market, but we'll see when we get there. It's important for us to have great software -- we know that launching without it won't work, but we also realize that we can't be a year late again, as we were with the GameCube.

EGM: Do you want to meet the competition, or beat them?
George: I don't think there's really an advantage to beating them. We look at the history of companies trying to beat the market, and we see systems like the Dreamcast or Saturn that not only didn't have enough good software, but also didn't have enough product to meet the retailers' needs.

So, they're not going to be late, but they don't want to be early. Uh-huh, that really narrows it down, George. Why don't you just say, we don't have a frickin' clue and leave it at that.

Nintendo, get yourself some gamers for reps, for pete's sakes, because these non-gaming types are absolutely useless.

[Chrono]

Interesting read. Nintendo needs better support for their next system IMO.

[mass]

Interesting read. Nintendo needs better support for their next system IMO.

Damn spanky they do. One thing sony proved with the ps2 launch is that you don't need first party to launch a system if you have good third party support. The ps2 launched with the following first party software titles, ..... Fanatvision. Sorry, but that was it.

Withholding development kits from thrid parties has been one of Nintendo's favorite tactics since the n64 launch. Those developers have long memories. Nintendo will have to go out of their way to make ammends to third parties for their next system, if there is a next system. I'm still not convinced Nintendo will be in the next race. Right now, they're waffling all over the place. We're good for seven to nine years, no, check that, we're launching early, check that again, we're not launching early, uhh.... we're going to watch sony and then we'll decide. We don't to launch early, but we don't want to launch late. :rolleyes:

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Damn spanky they do. One thing sony proved with the ps2 launch is that you don't need first party to launch a system if you have good third party support. The ps2 launched with the following first party software titles, ..... Fanatvision. Sorry, but that was it.

Withholding development kits from thrid parties has been one of Nintendo's favorite tactics since the n64 launch. Those developers have long memories. Nintendo will have to go out of their way to make ammends to third parties for their next system, if there is a next system. I'm still not convinced Nintendo will be in the next race. Right now, they're waffling all over the place. We're good for seven to nine years, no, check that, we're launching early, check that again, we're not launching early, uhh.... we're going to watch sony and then we'll decide. We don't to launch early, but we don't want to launch late. :rolleyes:</div>

I'm pessimistic that Sony can be beaten at all. I think they've sealed the playstation permanantly as THE game system, kind of like how PC and windows is everywhere, despite the slim existance of Linux, and Apple.

If Nintendo could have a great system ready early with great launch titles (a truly revolutionary Mario game, and something else completely new and adult and online) launching early would probably be better than launching side-by-side. When they launched a year AFTER sony, a lot of gamers were able to afford to pick up a second system that already had a Ps2. But launching at the same time. . .if they all three do it, who has the money to buy two and three systems PLUS games and accesories (extra controllers) all in the same holiday season? And if you only have the money to pick ONE of the three systems, we can be pretty sure most of the public isn't going to go Nintendo.

And the public is already overwhelmingly Ps2; since launch years all the software is new and expensive and sparse, Ps3's backward compatibility will give it a real edge.

You're right about one thing, this exec flip-flops more often than an epileptic with a strobe light. Just an interview or two ago he attributed Sony's lead and large installed user base to the fact that Sony launched a year ahead of everyone else, now he's saying the history of early launchers isn't good? So which is it, Peter? Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? And what in the hell good does it do to come out and admit in an interview that you guys withheld development kits which is why we had a damned 7 month game drought the first half of 2002? (And the only possible reason had to be to give a competitive edge to their own titles.) That's just a brilliant PR move, blabbing about this stuff.

I think the only thing that will give the Ps3 a run for its money is an Xbox 2 that launch's with a realistic Zelda, Mario Kart online and Halo III.

[Allisen1987]

Without Nintendo there would be no other systems. Nintendo will be with us always. Lay off them. I love them so. Kisses.

Alli

[TwiztidFreakMike]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Without Nintendo there would be no other systems. Nintendo will be with us always. Lay off them. I love them so. Kisses.

Alli</div>

oh yes.. you know b/c nintendo created console gaming.... let me bow down to them...

*sigh* i hope you know im not serious about a single thing up there :-)

[trebor]

Well, MASSive bore, what do you want - a detailed description of the next Nintendo console, right down to the system specifications? Seriously, time to shut up.

Out of curiousity, are you and Ritche Noalsco related or something? Is he one of your spawn?

[tekbit]

I don't think it is too far fetched to say that Nintendo screwed them selves from launch but I don't think it is all their fault. I'm sure you're thinking what a stupid thing to say but hear me out.

First Harrison said something to the effect that Rare let them down due to no games being released for several months after launch. We all remember the dry spell. This would no doubt hurt Nintendo as many gamers wait to buy a system to see what will be available. If they see nothing on the horizon they will look elsewhere for good games.

Second, Nintendo is used to being able to pump out hits like water. They were not able to do that this time around. Clearly due to problems like lack of support from third parties and their stubborn insistence on exclusivity. They were not able to keep up with the demand from fans. Thus leaving large gaps between major hits. There would be a couple AAA titles and then months with nothing.

Third, the market has changed. Older gamers are taking over the demand. Sony and Xbox have been right in that they expose what they know gamers are looking for. So when someone goes to the store in search of a good game, and sees the cute faces of Mario and friends, they say, “screw that.” Yes this is wrong. Because Nintendo does release a variety of mature games, and those so called kiddy games are quite worthy but the reality of the matter is, is that they will not sell the system. I mean look at the music industry, Brittany Spears? 50 Cent? Pure garbage, but they sell because they are marketed the right way. Not to say that Nintendo should start releasing half a$$ projects and slap a mature sticker on it, but they need to go with the flow of traffic and appeal to the greater majority.

Lastly, I believe Nintendo has been pimp slapped by Sony and has endured an exhausting fight with M$. And I have faith that they have learned their lesson and will deliver next time around. If not I will admit defeat and crown them as the dumbest marketing strategists in gaming history.

[VGV]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>I'm pessimistic that Sony can be beaten at all. I think they've sealed the playstation permanantly as THE game system, kind of like how PC and windows is everywhere, despite the slim existance of Linux, and Apple.</div>

I think I'll have to disagree with you on this one...the PC and videogame industry are two <i>completely</i> different beasts and as such <i>no parallels can be drawn between the markets</i>.

Disagree ? Well...let's look back in time shall we ?

<b>PC Industry</b>
<i>in a nutshell</i>

Back in the early eightees, when such things as mice and Graphical User Interfaces, hadn't even yet fully developed into <i>figments of our imagination</i>, the IBM PC & Clones were already synonymous with ever endearing <i>Operating System</i> developer <i>Microsoft</i>...remember good ol' command prompt C:\>_ ? Or shall I say, remember how each and every shiny new PC included <i>Microsoft Disk Operating System</i> right out of the box ? Yup...this sweet love affair between PC & MS has been an uncontested one since <i>da earliest of days</i> !

One more important <i>fact</i> to consider...countless hopefuls such as Apple, Commodore, Atari, Texas Instruments, Next etc. etc...have tried and <i>failed</i> miserably over the years to topple King IBM and his armada of clones from their high & mighty throne floating high atop the computer industry.

In a nutshell : The computer industry IS and HAS ALWAYS been the PC/Clones/MS combo...so, am I impressed ? Absolutely, definitely ! That's one helluva <i>perfect</i> track record !

<b>Videogame Industry</b>
<i>once again...in a nutshell</i>

Back in the early eightees, when such things as videogames and consoles, hadn't even yet fully developed into <i>figments of Sony's imagination</i>, Atari was sitting high & pretty atop the videogame industry. During it's reign of <i>pixelated terror</i> only Coleco and Intellivision were notable adversaries...but then the unimaginable happened !!! Overnight mighty Atari, king of all kings was no more. Heck, the whole industry was no more !

In Atari's story as first videogame industry market leader lays hidden the ever important lesson...no matter how astonishing or impressive a console manufacturer's lead over it's competitors, 't is best never to rest on your laurels...just ask Nintendo and Sega amongst others...the market lead in the videogame industry is as volatile and unpredictable as a single male's monthly answer to the question : who's your current girlfriend ?

In a nutshell : The current market leader in the videogame industry happens to be Sony...so, am I impressed ? Nope and sorry if I say but : that don't impress me much !

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
<b>Videogame Industry</b>
<i>once again...in a nutshell</i>

Back in the early eightees, when such things as videogames and consoles, hadn't even yet fully developed into <i>figments of Sony's imagination</i>, Atari was sitting high & pretty atop the videogame industry. During it's reign of <i>pixelated terror</i> only Coleco and Intellivision were notable adversaries...but then the unimaginable happened !!! Overnight mighty Atari, king of all kings was no more. Heck, the whole industry was no more !

In Atari's story as first videogame industry market leader lays hidden the ever important lesson...no matter how astonishing or impressive a console manufacturer's lead over it's competitors, 't is best never to rest on your laurels...just ask Nintendo and Sega amongst others...the market lead in the videogame industry is as volatile and unpredictable as a single male's monthly answer to the question : who's your current girlfriend ?

In a nutshell : The current market leader in the videogame industry happens to be Sony...so, am I impressed ? Nope and sorry if I say but : that don't impress me much !</div>

Comparing Sony to Atari is like comparing a goldfish to a shark by saying they'll act the same way because they both live in water. Basically what I'm saying is...I don't think there will be another videogame console market leader that collapses like Atari did. Atari went from having everything to having nothing in a relatively short period of time. This was due to some very bad decision making, like producing 12 million cartridge of PacMan and selling 10 million. Or trying to make a game based on the movie E.T. within 6 weeks.

Nintendo screwed up big with the N64, but their big franchises saved them along with the huge success of the Gameboy. Sega screwed up by releasing too many consoles, but they'll do just fine as a game developer and who knows they may even make a comeback someday (doubtful, but it would be sweet).

Then there is Sony, who in my opinion hasn't really made a bad mistake through one and a half generations of consoles. They had a great system with the PSOne and won a big installer base by catering to developers and making it easy and inexpensive to make games. They kept it going by reaching the market first with the PS2 which had improved graphics, the same controller, backwards capable, and (yes, Mr. Harrison) the ability to play DVDs. And as much as that monkey-clown George Harrison of Nintendo pokes fun at that, back in October of 2000 I didn't own a DVD player and it WAS a selling point.

No matter what the point in the videogame console war, the only trend I see is that gaining market share is done by giving gamers what they want and at an affordable price. Sony with what I imagine them doing with the PS3 will probably continue with their multipurpose approach, somewhere along the lines of the PSX. I'm sure Microsoft will follow Sony and maybe throw in something more. Then there's Nintendo who will stick to their guns and develop yet another gaming only machine with yet another type of disc.

[VGV]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Comparing Sony to Atari is like comparing a goldfish to a shark by saying they'll act the
same way because they both live in water. Basically what I'm saying is...I don't think there
will be another videogame console market leader that collapses like Atari did.
</div>

So where did I mention Sony collapsing like Atari did ? And where did I mention Sony acting like Atari ? Here's what I <i>did</i> mention : Witnessing a change of market leadership within the videogame industry isn't unthinkable, no matter how dramatic one's current gen results may be. (I HAD HOPED THIS WAS UNDERSTABLE FROM MY PREVIOUS <b>OH SO SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND</b> POST)


<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Nintendo screwed up big with the N64...Then there is Sony, who in my opinion hasn't really made a
bad mistake through one and a half generations of consoles.
</div>

Ok...remember the NES and SNES ? That's 2 full generations of market leadership where Big N didn't make a bad mistake...so where's Nintendo at now ? So once again...currently at top : Sony...am I impressed ? Nope.

P.S. And yes...both sharks and goldfish wouldn't survive on land...very smart observation there eh ?

[Fragmastar]

Nintendo is pretty much in a border line between danger and safe, IMO.

My strategy plan for Nintendo is for it to release a REALLY GOOD game for Gameboy Advance SP. A game that would keep gamers playing for month, after month, after month.

I remember that once, Nintendo released an awesome strategy/RPG game for Gameboy Advanced. It had all sorts of levels and maps. If the gamers didn't like the maps, they could design their own friggin' map! I saw it on X-Play.

Nintendo needs to release more games like that. Common, NIntendo! Don't pull out!

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

So where did I mention Sony collapsing like Atari did ? And where did I mention Sony acting like Atari ? Here's what I <i>did</i> mention : Witnessing a change of market leadership within the videogame industry isn't unthinkable, no matter how dramatic one's current gen results may be. (I HAD HOPED THIS WAS UNDERSTABLE FROM MY PREVIOUS <b>OH SO SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND</b> POST)</div>

Great, another tantrum throwing baby. Look, I was just putting in my 2 cents on the point you were making. Excuse me for not liking you using Atari as an example of a market leader falling from the top spot. Like I said in my post I don't think any current or future market leader will fall apart like Atari did, it will be gradual like Sega and like Nintendo is doing right now. I explained this in my <b>apparently too complex for you to understand</b> post, where I actually gave reasons why Atari fell apart and why Sega and Nintendo lost market share. Again excuse me for not liking your "It just happens" theory.

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Ok...remember the NES and SNES ? That's 2 full generations of market leadership where Big N didn't make a bad mistake...so where's Nintendo at now ? So once again...currently at top : Sony...am I impressed ? Nope.</div>

<b>2 FULL</b>, are you sure about that? Do you remember when Sony and Nintendo worked on a CD-ROM attachment for the SNES and then Nintendo blew them off and announced an agreement that Phillips would create it. Yeah, that was pretty much when (you may of heard of it) the Playstation or PSOne was born. Not sure what your definition of a mistake is...but I'd call that one, one of the biggest in industry history.

[VGV]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Great, another tantrum throwing baby
</div>

C'mon, resorting to insults now ? Can't you do any better than that like...bring up a valid point, or something along those lines ? That's a <i>positive</i> suggestion (use your brilliant brain to come up with valid interesting points instead of such childish remarks)

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Excuse me for not liking you using Atari as an example of a market leader falling from the top spot.
</div>

Well, would it make you feel any better if next time we'll use Big N as prime example, instead of Atari ? Would that make you happy ? Yes ?

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
2 FULL, are you sure about that? Do you remember when Sony and Nintendo worked on a CD-ROM attachment for the SNES and then Nintendo blew them off and announced an agreement that Phillips would create it. Yeah, that was pretty much when (you may of heard of it) the Playstation or PSOne was born. Not sure what your definition of a mistake is...but I'd call that one, one of the biggest in industry history.
</div>

2 FULL generations of market leadership by big N, <i>ofcourse</i> I'm sure about that...fact is the PSOne and SNES were not in the same generation of consoles...SNES + Genesis = Same Generation...PSOne + N64 = Same Generation.

P.S. Other remarks I didn't answer for I already did in this thread and don't feel like repeating myself over and over again for the sake of you sir...

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Can't you do any better than that like...bring up a valid point, or something along those lines ? </div>

A valid point? I'm the only one stating valid points. The only reason they are invalid to you is because you don't agree with some of them.

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Well, would it make you feel any better if next time we'll use Big N as prime example, instead of Atari ? Would that make you happy ? Yes ?</div>

Yes, it would.

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
2 FULL generations of market leadership by big N, <i>ofcourse</i> I'm sure about that...fact is the PSOne and SNES were not in the same generation of consoles...SNES + Genesis = Same Generation...PSOne + N64 = Same Generation.</div>

1991 SNES launch
1993 Sony works with Nintendo on the CD-ROM add on. Sometime after Nintendo announces agreement with Phillips.
1994-95 PSOne launch in Japan and US.
1996 N64 launch

It was during the SNES generation, the Nintendo cut Sony loose to create the console that killed their market share and also developed the N64 that would use cartridges (pfffffffff!) instead of CDs. I guess we could argue all week about 1.5 or 2 generations of good decision making. Eventually they screwed up.

[VGV]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
A valid point? I'm the only one stating valid points. The only reason they are invalid to you is because you don't agree with some of them.
</div>

Well I'll have to vehemently disagree with the first part and agree with the second part.

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
It was during the SNES generation, the Nintendo cut Sony loose to create
the console that killed their market share and also developed the N64 that
would use cartridges (pfffffffff!) instead of CDs. I guess we could argue
all week about 1.5 or 2 generations of good decision making. Eventually
they screwed up.
</div>

Well...glad to see you making a <i>valid</i> point (finally..lol). I'll have to agree...Big N being conservative and sticking with the cartridge format during the N64 period, wasn't too brilliant (limited mem capacity as opposed to the CD format both Sony and Sega opted for).

Dang ! I really wanted a Saturn, because of <i>Virtua Fighter</i> when it was released but alas...the admission price was kinda steep for me back then ! And you know what ? Instead I waited patiently for the N64's release and never did I regret this decision...some of my fondest gaming memories stem from this period (Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, Waverace, Turok, BIOFREAKS, StarFox bundled with rumble pack, Killer Instinct Gold, Extreme G, 1080 Snowboarding, MACE etc. etc.)

Don't know about you but I think 2K4 is going to be a defining year in gaming history...let's see if the PS2 can keep up with those <i>not yet here killer apps</i> coming up for both the Xbox and Gamecube (maybe the PS2 will start showing it's age..who knows, maybe some PS2 folks will buy a second console by then)

P.S. Do you remember the 64DD (N64) and the 32X (Sega Genesis) add ons ? Talk about classic flops in videogaming history (sales-wise that is)...BTW pleasure debating with you THUG !

[thug]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
Instead I waited patiently for the N64's release and never did I regret this decision...some of my fondest gaming memories stem from this period (Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, Waverace, Turok, BIOFREAKS, StarFox bundled with rumble pack, Killer Instinct Gold, Extreme G, 1080 Snowboarding, MACE etc. etc.)

Don't know about you but I think 2K4 is going to be a defining year in gaming history...let's see if the PS2 can keep up with those <i>not yet here killer apps</i> coming up for both the Xbox and Gamecube (maybe the PS2 will start showing it's age..who knows, maybe some PS2 folks will buy a second console by then)

P.S. Do you remember the 64DD (N64) and the 32X (Sega Genesis) add ons ? Talk about classic flops in videogaming history (sales-wise that is)...BTW pleasure debating with you THUG !</div>

A true fan...waiting out for the N64. I saw most of those games you listed off of my friends' N64s. Never owned one, but thought the games were amazing. You may see me bad mouth and rip on Nintendo a lot on this forum, but honestly, it's done in frustration. I want to like them like I once did, but some things that they do now days goes against logic in my opinion.

Agreed, 2004 should be a defining year in gaming. I own an Xbox and a PS2, when I look ahead to 2004 I'm very excited about quite a few Xbox titles but just a few PS2 titles. The PS2 is showing it's age, but it has surprised the heck out of me on how well it's holding up against the Xbox and GC. The Playstation reputation and maybe a little consumer apathy is the only explanation I can give. Good debate, VGV.