BREAKING: Warner Bros going Blu-ray Exclusive

[silversparrow]

Warner Bros to back Blu-ray DVD format exclusively

NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) rival HD DVD technology.

Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs, representing about 18 to 20 percent of sales in the United States, was one of the few studios that backed both formats.

All sides of the format war had agreed it was confusing to consumers and a stumbling block for a potential multibillion-dollar industry.

Total DVD unit sales fell 4.5 percent in 2007, the first major year-over-year decline since the disc format debuted in 1997, according to Adams Media Research. Sales fell 4.8 percent to $15.7 billion.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

News Corp's (NWSa.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), and Lionsgate (LGF.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom Inc's (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Paramount studios and General Electric's (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) NBC Universal release movies in HD DVD format.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases.


Source: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN0432340820080104)

With Disney, Fox, Sony, Lionsgate, and now Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, that makes over 70% of Hollywood content exclusive to the format. So does this signal an end to the HD format war?

[joquito]

Yep!

I've always said that who ever gets Warner exclusively, wins. Warner is the most commited to HD and no format can win without them.

[thelastword]

The war was over, even before it began, bluray is simply superior.

[T.Tashi]

Interesting news in lieu of the predictions that Bill Gates is supposed to announce an internal HD DVD drive for the 360.

[Fivespot]

Interesting news in lieu of the predictions that Bill Gates is supposed to announce an internal HD DVD drive for the 360.

I was thinking the exact same thing. If indeed the rumor is true, this could make Gates' announcement much less appealing.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

This is good news. Batman: The Dark Knight is coming out this year, and after I watch it in theaters (one of probably 3 movies I'll see on the big screen) I can pick it up on Blu-Ray.

For the right price, I'd be tempted to get Batman Begins when it is converted to Blu-Ray.

[silversparrow]

Interesting news in lieu of the predictions that Bill Gates is supposed to announce an internal HD DVD drive for the 360.

If that was their secret announcement all along, then I'll bet they're having second thoughts about it right now. Such an SKU won't help HD-DVD's fortunes with today's development. This move could also be an expensive proposition for Toshiba. To my knowledge the RROD issue with the 360 chipset still hasn't been resolved, and so they'd be forced to subsidize the extra costs of MS's 360 warranty program.

It would also not bring MS or the 360 any real benefits because the HD-DVD drive could only be implemented for movies. Having it there for games would be a complete non-starter.

I get the feeling that if there is an announcement it'll have more to do with MS's latest developments on IPTV.

[T.Tashi]

TOKYO, Jan. 4 /PRNewswire/ — Toshiba is quite surprised by Warner Bros.’ decision to abandon HD DVD in favor of Blu-ray, despite the fact that there are various contracts in place between our companies concerning the support of HD DVD. As central members of the DVD Forum, we have long maintained a close partnership with Warner Bros. We worked closely together to help standardize the first-generation DVD format as well as to define and shape HD DVD as its next-generation successor.

We were particularly disappointed that this decision was made in spite of the significant momentum HD DVD has gained in the US market as well as other regions in 2007. HD DVD players and PCs have outsold Blu-ray in the US market in 2007.

We will assess the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluate potential next steps. We remain firm in our belief that HD DVD is the format best suited to the wants and needs of the consumer.

[folken001]

hddvd will officially be dead when the exclusivity contract with paramount is over.

[NEO-360]

The war was over, even before it began, bluray is simply superior.

It didnt work with Blockbuster why should this work because of whats going down with Warner Bros?

If Blu-ray is so superior why does it seem like the manufacters is trying to shove this down our throats then? Blu-ray truly isnt all that. Alot of people would rather stick with HD and basically save an extra $12 bucks for every movie they buy. I mean most of us already has to by HD televisions by 2009 since telecasts will be going that route universally by then. But trying to force feed us blu-ray isnt going to make people buy it. But they'll soon find that out. Warner Bros. Is going to lose a ton in the long run.:p

[joquito]

It didnt work with Blockbuster why should this work because of whats going down with Warner Bros?

If Blu-ray is so superior why does it seem like the manufacters is trying to shove this down our throats then? Blu-ray truly isnt all that. Alot of people would rather stick with HD and basically save an extra $12 bucks for every movie they buy. I mean most of us already has to by HD televisions by 2009 since telecasts will be going that route universally by then. But trying to force feed us blu-ray isnt going to make people buy it. But they'll soon find that out. Warner Bros. Is going to lose a ton in the long run.:p

You are correct NEO that Blu-ray is not superior to HD-DVD. Rumors are going around that Sony paid for Warner's exclusivity like Toshiba did with Paramount a few months back. Nonetheless, Warner and its affiliate studios have the most sought after content, and are the most willing to transfer it into an HD format. You can't win in HD without Warner. Is there a chance for HD-DVD to still succeed? Sure, anything is possible, but its not very likely. When the DVD-forum officially replaces HD-DVD with Blu-ray as the successor to DVD, Toshiba will concede.

[NEO-360]

You are correct NEO that Blu-ray is not superior to HD-DVD. Rumors are going around that Sony paid for Warner's exclusivity like Toshiba did with Paramount a few months back. Nonetheless, Warner and its affiliate studios have the most sought after content, and are the most willing to transfer it into an HD format. You can't win in HD without Warner. Is there a chance for HD-DVD to still succeed? Sure, anything is possible, but its not very likely. When the DVD-forum officially replaces HD-DVD with Blu-ray as the successor to DVD, Toshiba will concede.

So what do you think about in 2009 all TV programming going HD? Basically making America have to buy an HD TV or watch a blurry screen.:cool:

[Glockstar]

...bluray is simply superior.

Yeah? How so?

[T.Tashi]

So what do you think about in 2009 all TV programming going HD? Basically making America have to buy an HD TV or watch a blurry screen.:cool:

Actually digital TV and HDTV aren't the same thing. You can get standard definition over a digital signal. Digital will certainly make hi def more viable though.

[joquito]

So what do you think about in 2009 all TV programming going HD? Basically making America have to buy an HD TV or watch a blurry screen.:cool:

Actually, in 2009, all over-the-air broadcasts wil go DIGITAL, which could still consist of standard def material. The goal is for all broadcast TV to be in HD, but that won't happen for a while. The reason for the switch is so the federal government can auction off the radio frequency bandwidth that is currently being loaned to local broadcasters. I don't know if you remember, but there was alot of political talk in the 90s of a huge surplus in the national budget, the money to be made by selling the bandwidth is what all the all the hoopla was about.

[NEO-360]

Actually, in 2009, all over-the-air broadcasts wil go DIGITAL, which could still consist of standard def material. The goal is for all broadcast TV to be in HD, but that won't happen for a while. The reason for the switch is so the federal government can auction off the radio frequency bandwidth that is currently being loaned to local broadcasters. I don't know if you remember, but there was alot of political talk in the 90s of a huge surplus in the national budget, the money to be made by selling the bandwidth is what all the all the hoopla was about.Thanks for the info. I'll be buying my flat screen 32 inch HD TV before this year is over.:thumbsup:

[T.Tashi]

You are correct NEO that Blu-ray is not superior to HD-DVD. Rumors are going around that Sony paid for Warner's exclusivity like Toshiba did with Paramount a few months back. Nonetheless, Warner and its affiliate studios have the most sought after content, and are the most willing to transfer it into an HD format. You can't win in HD without Warner. Is there a chance for HD-DVD to still succeed? Sure, anything is possible, but its not very likely. When the DVD-forum officially replaces HD-DVD with Blu-ray as the successor to DVD, Toshiba will concede.

Well there's 18 companies in the blu-ray camp, not just Sony. I doubt if Sony alone could or would foot the bill to pay off a monolith like Time Warner. But the longer the war dragged on the more detrimental it was to the industry and most parties involved. Toshiba, Microsoft (and if you count them the hddvd adopters) are the only benefactors in prolonging the war and they had to pay $150,000,000 to keep hdvd on life support. It really needed to end.

[folken001]

Warner denied that there was any pay off taking place. The chances are there was one. But, Toshiba started first so I don't see what hte problem is.

Blu-ray is superior because while its capacity is larger, blu-ray movies are selling at the same price range as HDDVD. Enough said.

[thelastword]

It didnt work with Blockbuster why should this work because of whats going down with Warner Bros?

If Blu-ray is so superior why does it seem like the manufacters is trying to shove this down our throats then? Blu-ray truly isnt all that. Alot of people would rather stick with HD and basically save an extra $12 bucks for every movie they buy. I mean most of us already has to by HD televisions by 2009 since telecasts will be going that route universally by then. But trying to force feed us blu-ray isnt going to make people buy it. But they'll soon find that out. Warner Bros. Is going to lose a ton in the long run.:p Bluray is superior because it has a larger data capacity, disc durability is way superior, Copyright and Security tech is simply miles beyond HDDVD due to the new ROM-MARK tech on all pressed BD discs, it's also one of the main reasons why the movie industry supports bluray, (hollywood does not encourage the trend of losing a tonne of money due to piracy each year), it supports VC1(just like hddvd) and MPEG4 (the standard in hd encoding atm).

Since bluray is already superior in all these aspects, it must also be noted how future ready the tech really is, the improvements we will see overtime just can't be denied. The reason why BD discs costs just a tidbit more to manufacture is because of the duracoat that goes over every BD surface. The surface layer on a BD is much thinner to that of an HDDVD (0.1mm to 0.6mm), but the thinking there, was to allow the layers to be more closely nit together thereby allowing the benefit of more layers in the future. In essence, a 200gb BD disc is no hurdle at all when the demand for more storage is eventually required.

What's interesting, is that two birds are killed with one stone with the tech explained, a thinner surface layer for better storage capacity right now and especially for tommorrow and since the surface layer is so thin, a coating over that layer is supplied to enhance durability like we've never seen before on a disc. I'll pay a few cents extra with the knowledge that my discs won't stick and not function coming into contact with even semi-corrosive surfaces. Hell, Duracoat is so good that folk have attempted the steelwool test on these discs and absolutely nothing phases the coating, your movie/game will still play flawlessly.

Point is, there isn't one area where HDDVD is superior to BLURAY and with BD1.1 the improvements in the future are just smacking, so yes, once again, I've given several examples why Bluray is the one for the future and why it's clearly superior, not forgetting the unparallaled support from the major movie studios, the fact that SONY itself has a huge stake in the movie industry is also telling, the support is way superior.


To the tools fanning the bitter flame of "SONY MONEYHATTING EXCLUSIVITY FROM WARNER". Go to this link (http://charts.highdefdigest.com/versus.aspx)....The top ten best selling HD films are all on bluray, look how many Warner films are in the top ten alone you effin toolsheds...see...8/10. I'm sure Warner didn't know where the majority of it's sales are derived :rolleyes:, I'm sure they would back inferior tech with grossly inferior sales. These bitter tears are just silly, the writing have always been on the wall, hell, bluray is simply destroying HDDVD when it comes to software. If you do a roundup of the top 50 of the best selling HD movies at the link, bluray is in 46 of the 50 slots, HDDVD in response has a measly 4 spots in the top 50, going to the top 100 is yet another excruciating trot down "Bluray Owns Here" lane. It's OVER, it has always been, deal with it.

[joquito]

Well there's 18 companies in the blu-ray camp, not just Sony. I doubt if Sony alone could or would foot the bill to pay off a monolith like Time Warner. But the longer the war dragged on the more detrimental it was to the industry and most parties involved. Toshiba, Microsoft (and if you count them the hddvd adopters) are the only benefactors in prolonging the war and they had to pay $150,000,000 to keep hdvd on life support. It really needed to end.


One of the biggest misconceptions of this format war is that Toshiba rides alone, and this is just not true. The DVD forum, who sanctions DVD backs HD-DVD. The DVD forum is made of many of Blu-ray's contributors. All Blu-ray patents are solely owned by Sony, just like all HD-DVD pantents are owned by Toshiba. The only difference is studio support and player manufacturers, which could switch at the drop of a hat. Sony paid Warner, because all the press was yelling that the tide was turning, heck even Sony stopped their "We've Won the format war" speech. You can verify this by reading any HD blogs for the months of Nov and Dec.

I personally thought that the only tangible difference between Blu-ray and HD-DVD was that BD could output higher bitrates, but this only happened on Mpeg 2 discs, that required it to match HD-DVDs Mpeg 4 encodings. Blu-ray's DRM (BD+)has been cracked, Its larger capacity has only been needed for its lossy Mpeg 2 encoding, and its players has always been far more expensive than HD-DVD players for some unknown reason. Consumers had a chance to jump on the HD bandwagon imediately, but although the HD format war is all but over, the transistion will be long due to the high prices. The sentiment on AVSForum is that cheap prices and Buy One Get One Free deals for Blu-ray are over. It is good that the format war was over, but it would have ended just as well if Warner has sided with HD-DVD.

[silversparrow]

One of the biggest misconceptions of this format war is that Toshiba rides alone, and this is just not true.

Toshiba wasn't alone in the HD-DVD group, but other than one discontinued RCA box, they've been the only ones producing standalone players. That's been a very shaky foundation for them.

[joquito]

Bluray is superior because it has a larger data capacity, disc durability is way superior, Copyright and Security tech is simply miles beyond HDDVD due to the new ROM-MARK tech on all pressed BD discs, it's also one of the main reasons why the movie industry supports bluray, (hollywood does not encourage the trend of losing a tonne of money due to piracy each year), it supports VC1(just like hddvd) and MPEG4 (the standard in hd encoding atm).

Since bluray is already superior in all these aspects, it must also be noted how future ready the tech really is, the improvements we will see overtime just can't be denied. The reason why BD discs costs just a tidbit more to manufacture is because of the duracoat that goes over every BD surface. The surface layer on a BD is much thinner to that of an HDDVD (0.1mm to 0.6mm), but the thinking there, was to allow the layers to be more closely nit together thereby allowing the benefit of more layers in the future. In essence, a 200gb BD disc is no hurdle at all when the demand for more storage is eventually required.

What's interesting, is that two birds are killed with one stone with the tech explained, a thinner surface layer for better storage capacity right now and especially for tommorrow and since the surface layer is so thin, a coating over that layer is supplied to enhance durability like we've never seen before on a disc. I'll pay a few cents extra with the knowledge that my discs won't stick and not function coming into contact with even semi-corrosive surfaces. Hell, Duracoat is so good that folk have attempted the steelwool test on these discs and absolutely nothing phases the coating, your movie/game will still play flawlessly.

Point is, there isn't one area where HDDVD is superior to BLURAY and with BD1.1 the improvements in the future are just smacking, so yes, once again, I've given several examples why Bluray is the one for the future and why it's clearly superior, not forgetting the unparallaled support from the major movie studios, the fact that SONY itself has a huge stake in the movie industry is also telling, the support is way superior.


To the tools fanning the bitter flame of "SONY MONEYHATTING EXCLUSIVITY FROM WARNER". Go to this link (http://charts.highdefdigest.com/versus.aspx)....The top ten best selling HD films are all on bluray, look how many Warner films are in the top ten alone you effin toolsheds...see...8/10. I'm sure Warner didn't know where the majority of it's sales are derived :rolleyes:, I'm sure they would back inferior tech with grossly inferior sales. These bitter tears are just silly, the writing have always been on the wall, hell, bluray is simply destroying HDDVD when it comes to software. If you do a roundup of the top 50 of the best selling HD movies at the link, bluray is in 46 of the 50 slots, HDDVD in response has a measly 4 spots in the top 50, going to the top 100 is yet another excruciating trot down "Bluray Owns Here" lane. It's OVER, it has always been, deal with it.


You are such a Sony Lapdog. ROM-MARK does nothing to stop BD movies from showing up on newsgroups, torrents, or being copied to home PCs, and servers. Its just a watermark for customs to check large shipments of Discs. Actually, BD+ didn't either, so where is the DRM superiority? Where are the full profile BD players? You still haven't given any real examples of how BD's extra capacity has come into play in regards to movies. Keep posting Lastword, all you are doing is turning your moment of victory into a moment of shame.

[joquito]

Toshiba wasn't alone in the HD-DVD group, but other than one discontinued RCA box, they've been the only ones producing standalone players. That's been a very shaky foundation for them.

When consumers who don't play videogames see 4 BD players for $999 and up, and 2 HD players for as low as $499, the amount of players don't seem to mean much, and the sales of stand alone players proved it. HD sold more stand alone players, by quite a bit.

The PS3 made the difference. Whats interesting is that the PS3 on the HD front is a success, but on the video game front is a failure. Ironically, the Videogame side is suppose to support the HD side, but Sony is acually hurting on both fronts.

[Mochan]

The only DRM Superiority is No DRM Superiority.

[silversparrow]

When consumers who don't play videogames see 4 BD players for $999 and up, and 2 HD players for as low as $499, the amount of players don't seem to mean much, and the sales of stand alone players proved it. HD sold more stand alone players, by quite a bit.

That's in 2006, when players for both formats were much more expensive than they are now. You can now find Blu-ray players for $270. HD-DVD players went on firesale for $100 during Black Friday, but they are not usually found for less than $200.

HD-DVD standalone players outsold those of Blu-ray but not by a big margin from what I've read. And during December, Blu-ray standalones outsold those of HD-DVD:


"It’s hard for us to speculate about impact this will have on the format war. All we can do really is make the best decision for our business and the rest of it will really take care of itself, in time," he said. "One of the things you see in the NPD data for this fourth quarter was that even with a $100 [price] premium, Blu-ray set tops outsold HD set tops in December. Even with Toshiba having the lowest-cost player in the market, software sales remained 2 to 1 in favor of Blu-ray."

Source (http://www.contentagenda.com/blog/1500000150/post/190019619.html)

The PS3 made the difference. Whats interesting is that the PS3 on the HD front is a success, but on the video game front is a failure. Ironically, the Videogame side is suppose to support the HD side, but Sony is acually hurting on both fronts.

It's highly debatable to call the PS3 a "failure". A "disappointment" perhaps, compared to the sales of its predecessors, but regardless it's a viable game console that will be around for many years to come.

[joquito]

Toshiba A3 players are still $199 virtually everywhere (BestBuy). The cheapest current BD players are still $399. There are a few A2s still floating around for cheap, and I am sure there are a few discontinued BD players selling for less that $399, but none of the $399 support profile 2.0, so no web interactivity or PiP.

I still can't find a NPD report of BD standalone players selling more than HD standalones.

[T.Tashi]

One of the biggest misconceptions of this format war is that Toshiba rides alone, and this is just not true. The DVD forum, who sanctions DVD backs HD-DVD. The DVD forum is made of many of Blu-ray's contributors. All Blu-ray patents are solely owned by Sony, just like all HD-DVD pantents are owned by Toshiba. The only difference is studio support and player manufacturers, which could switch at the drop of a hat. Sony paid Warner, because all the press was yelling that the tide was turning, heck even Sony stopped their "We've Won the format war" speech. You can verify this by reading any HD blogs for the months of Nov and Dec.

I personally thought that the only tangible difference between Blu-ray and HD-DVD was that BD could output higher bitrates, but this only happened on Mpeg 2 discs, that required it to match HD-DVDs Mpeg 4 encodings. Blu-ray's DRM (BD+)has been cracked, Its larger capacity has only been needed for its lossy Mpeg 2 encoding, and its players has always been far more expensive than HD-DVD players for some unknown reason. Consumers had a chance to jump on the HD bandwagon imediately, but although the HD format war is all but over, the transistion will be long due to the high prices. The sentiment on AVSForum is that cheap prices and Buy One Get One Free deals for Blu-ray are over. It is good that the format war was over, but it would have ended just as well if Warner has sided with HD-DVD.

I know. HP was pretty rabid about defending hddvd. There's also Maxwell, Alpine and some others. Despite the handful of studios that supported hddvd though, Hollywood (and some pretty big names, Spielberg, Michael Bay) was predominately behind bluray for whatever reasons they had. While you still have an extensive library in hddvd format, you're resigning yourself to missing out on all the films in the bluray camp which is pretty substantial. The consumer doesn't win that way. If Warner was the deciding vote, Toshiba should've gave them the money instead of Paramount and Dreamworks.

I can go to newegg.com right now and get a bluray player for $330. Players for PCs are as low as the sub 300s. The burners are still a bit more expensive but when they hit the sub 400s I'll get one. I dabble in video and I need the storage. I also saw hddvd players for as high as $600 on newegg. If newegg is too techy, even on amazon.com the price can run between $330-$800 for a bluray player and hdvd players between $180-$600. Of course if you walk into a Best Buy looking for players, expect to overpay whatever the brand.

There's a lot of myths and misinformation about bluray and I say that because the information is often outdated. When I was researching bluray and hddvd most of the articles and forum posts were from 2006. So the majority of sites you get from a Google search, noboby is bothering to update their info which is approaching 2 years old on some sites. Some of the persisting myths I've read about bluray are:

Yeah it has 25 GB storage but they come in single layer only. Hddvd comes in a dual layered 30GB so hddvd is superior. Again, true at some point in 2006, it's not true now.

The VC-1 codec used in hddvd is superior to the inefficient MPEG-2. The funny part about this quote is this person did update their information but only to support his case against bluray. Again, once upon a time this was true, but bluray uses MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC (H.264), and VC-1.

The Price: Sure you can walk into a brick and mortar store and probably see a $999 bluray player next to a $500 hddvd player. But that is not the consumer's only option as newegg and amazon prove. There's the low end, the high end, and prices in between are very competitive.

But I'll say to anyone don't take my word for anything, plus I could very well be wrong. Do your own research but check the dates of articles and posts. But really though it's all a mute point now anyway.

[Glockstar]

Point is, there isn't one area where HDDVD is superior to BLURAY...so yes, once again, I've given several examples why Bluray is the one for the future and why it's clearly superior

No crackhead, the only thing you've done is give more examples of you being a tool.

But I think everybody here knows that about you. And hopefully they're all smart enough to dismiss your "facts" as mere hyperbole. I hope no one here is actually dumb enough to believe anything you say.

The only knowledgeable thing gained from your slant was the bit about the "durocoat" applied to blu-ray disks. That I did not know. Thanks. Guess you are good for something - every once in awhile. Too bad your true facts are buried in a heaping pile of dung, and that you make people go digging to find out what's really what.


I've gathered together a bunch of articles on "the war" to help people discern the truth. Some of what you'll read below is stuff that you've read before - but some of what was "known" before about the technological methods behind each format has been updated; hey, at the very least it's a refresher.

I tried to just stick with 2007 articles - thinking that they would be less out-of-date than stuff from 2006 and 2005, obviously. But there were a couple of 2006 articles that made the cut, because the points therein are significant, I believe.

As you'll see I'm also going to paste some excerpts from each article, mostly for thelastword to read. :wink5:


1) Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD - Hardware Secrets - 1/18/07 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/415/1)

Interesting bit from this article:
Which leads us to an interesting fact: Sony doesn’t want “adult” movies on Blu-Ray format, the same restriction Betamax format had, and some critics say that this restriction was one of the reasons of Betamax’s demise. But since Sony isn't alone at the Blu-Ray consortium, we will see "adult" movies for this format as well, but it seems that producers at this industry prefer HD-DVD format over Blu-Ray.



2) Frankenfight: Blu-ray vs. HD DVD, Formats Not Equal - Gizmodo - 2/21/07 (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/feature/frankenfight-bluray-vs-hd-dvd-formats-not-equal-238336.php)

Significant review averages tell us that Blu-ray titles were slightly, but definitely superior in audio playback. HD DVD titles had far superior standard def features and moderately superior hi def features.

But how could this be? Spec sheets claim the same audio codecs are supported on Blu-ray and HD DVD. Why would one format sound better? And why is HD DVD kicking major Blu-ray bonus content ass?


3) Blu-ray replication vs HD DVD replication costs revealed - WesleyTech - 2/9/07 (http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/)

This one's for everybody:
Replicating on HD DVD SL (15GB) will always be the most inexpensive option at any quantity. Replicating on Blu-ray DL (50GB) will always be the most expensive option. But the pricing of the other two media types (HD DVD DL and Blu-ray SL) is where the most interesting information is. Looking at the pricing and calculated data we can conclude that replicating content on the Blu-ray format is not significantly more costly than HD DVD. In fact, replicating on Blu-ray SL (25GB) can actually be less expensive than replicating on HD DVD DL (30GB).

What's especially significant about that last statement is that - from everything that I've read on the internet whilst researching this topic today - currently Blu-ray disks are of the single-layer, 25GB variety, while HD-DVD disks are of the dual-layer, 30GB kind.


4) Blu-ray vs HD DVD: No One Is Winning - TVPredictions - October 2007 (http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/10/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-no-one-is-winning.html)

5. The BD CE companies can’t be happy at the number standalones they are selling. For them, the whole point of BD was to sell machines at much higher price points than they were getting for DVD players. With the price cuts on the PS3, with a new $399.00 PS3 available on October 28th, companies like Panasonic and Pioneer will have to continue to cut the prices of their machines to compete. I don’t think they will want to have to sell machines at a loss or barebones profits just to compete with the PS3.

6. Sony may win the format war but at what cost? Sony’s gaming division is already suffering huge losses due to the PS3. While the PS3 has helped give BD the edge, although not much of one, the high cost of the players and lack of games has made it a loser in the console wars, which is much more important than the home theater market. HD media will be obsolete due to downloads long before the gaming market moves on to some other form of distribution.


5) Blu-ray region encoding causing lost exclusives? - Playstation Universe - 9/13/07 (http://www.psu.com/Blu-ray-region-encoding-causing-lost-exclusives-News--a1309-p0.php)

HD-DVD discs and players are region free, meaning that any disc will work on any player, regardless of where the disc was made. One of Blu-ray's security features (one that most studios prefer) is that is region encodes its discs. While making it's content more secure, this could turn out to be a snag to overcome.


6) Blu-ray, HD DVD Stew Thickens - TechNewsWorld - 4/23/07 (http://www.technewsworld.com/story/57044.html)

HD DVD is the only format with studios releasing combo-discs, according to Collins. HD DVD combo-discs feature HD DVD content on one side, and a standard DVD version on the other that allows playback in existing DVD players.


7) Blu-ray versus HD DVD: First Head-to-Head Comparisons - High-Def Digest - 8/1/06 (http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_blurayvshddvd_firstcomparison.html)

..Blu-ray's atrocious menu access times. The Blu-ray may boot up a disc quicker, but with every single Blu-ray disc I've played (Warner or otherwise), clicking between menu options is not only slower than HD DVD, but also even standard DVD. Even simple functions like selecting a submenu or accessing a scene are accompanied by a little icon I call the "hourglass of doom." This symbol will pop up for as long as two or three seconds and the disc's menu animation will stall as the deck access the next chunk of information off the disc. What gives? Even on a standard DVD you can click between submenus almost seamlessly. Quite frankly, with Blu-ray, I feel like I'm playing an old PlayStation 2 game, not cruising around a next-gen high-def disc seamlessly.

That major gripe out of the way, also notable about Warner's Blu-ray releases is that the studio has decided to drop the interactive features that are standard on its HD DVD discs. You cannot bookmark your favorite scenes on Blu-ray like you can on HD DVD, and also gone is the ability to zoom in and pan over an image. Why Warner has dropped these cool if admittedly rarely-used functions I do not know. Otherwise, the navigation system on Warner's Blu-ray discs is the same as its HD DVD counterparts -- no main menu, just an overlay with Scene Selection, Settings, Special Features, etc., that you can toggle on and off in real-time during playback.


8) Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD Fact vs. Fiction - Home Theatre Blog - 6/28/06 (http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2006/06/bluray_vs_hddvd.html)

I don't want to cut-n-paste anything from the article here, because it's too old. That said, it may be an oldie, but it's still a goodie.


One last thing, while every site and source will concur that Blu-ray has a greater storage capacity than HD-DVD on paper (here, C-Net's got everything charted out for you (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-13817_7-6462511-2.html?tag=arw)) - the whole basis - the one and only reason - behind the statement that 'Blu-ray is superior to HD-DVD' - no one can cite any practical proof of this.

The audio discrepancies are varying, and changing. (See C-Net article linked to above.)

If anything, reality shows us the opposite is true: as by and large HD-DVD movies contain more special features than Blu-ray movies do.

But here, here's a perfect, real-world example of Blu-ray's "superiority" - or rather, lack thereof: Planet Earth - The Complete BBC Series. Available on all formats: Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and DVD. The HD-DVD version comes on 5 disks. Want to know how many disks the Blu-ray version come on? 5.(!) Where's the fracking difference? Where's that storage capacity superiority?! Answer: There is none. (Oh fyi, the DVD version comes on 6 disks.(!))


So... there isn't one area where HD-DVD is superior to Blu-ray, eh tlw?


Get this clear knuckleheads: The only advantage Blu-ray has over HD-DVD is that it has more studios behind it.

But that was offset by the cheaper costs of HD-DVD players to consumers.

Er, not really. The studio backing thing is HUGE. It is the biggest difference between the two formats. And it will be the deciding factor for which format succeeds, or not.

And the fact that Warner Bros. just jumped over to the Blu-ray camp... that pretty much means this war is over. It's all over but the screaming.

The storage capacity thing has proven to mean jacksquat in nearly all practical applications. But on paper... Sony showed the blu-ray possibilities; the raw numbers for Blu-ray showed that it could have the greatest potential for the future - and I guess they sold the studios on that.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

OUCH...I don't even know what to say...I will wait for all studios to make their decision, else I will stick with my frikkin DVD player.

[theWacoKid]

One of the biggest misconceptions of this format war is that Toshiba rides alone, and this is just not true. The DVD forum, who sanctions DVD backs HD-DVD. The DVD forum is made of many of Blu-ray's contributors. All Blu-ray patents are solely owned by Sony, just like all HD-DVD pantents are owned by Toshiba. The only difference is studio support and player manufacturers, which could switch at the drop of a hat. Sony paid Warner, because all the press was yelling that the tide was turning, heck even Sony stopped their "We've Won the format war" speech. You can verify this by reading any HD blogs for the months of Nov and Dec.

I personally thought that the only tangible difference between Blu-ray and HD-DVD was that BD could output higher bitrates, but this only happened on Mpeg 2 discs, that required it to match HD-DVDs Mpeg 4 encodings. Blu-ray's DRM (BD+)has been cracked, Its larger capacity has only been needed for its lossy Mpeg 2 encoding, and its players has always been far more expensive than HD-DVD players for some unknown reason. Consumers had a chance to jump on the HD bandwagon imediately, but although the HD format war is all but over, the transistion will be long due to the high prices. The sentiment on AVSForum is that cheap prices and Buy One Get One Free deals for Blu-ray are over. It is good that the format war was over, but it would have ended just as well if Warner has sided with HD-DVD.

Sony and toshiba own all the patents for their respective technologies. Oh, really?



Blu-ray Disc Patent Holders Collaborate
Staff Reporter -- Electronic News, 7/20/2006

Patent player MPEG LA today announced that the first meeting of essential Blu-ray disc patent owners, consisting of 17 companies, was held in Los Angeles earlier this month.

The meeting’s purpose was to create a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatory access to essential patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses.

Participating companies included CyberLink; Dell; Hewlett-Packard; Hitachi; Koninklijke Philips Electronics; LG Electronics; Matsu****a Electric Industrial (Panasonic); Mitsubishi Electric; Pioneer; Samsung Electronics; Sanyo Electric; Sharp; Sony; TDK; Victor Company of Japan; and Warner Home Video.

"This extraordinary effort, and the substantial progress made in this initial meeting, by so many diverse companies bodes well for offering an efficient way to address intellectual property licensing needs for advanced optical devices, discs and related implementations," said MPEG LA CEO Larry Horn in a statement. "MPEG LA welcomes the opportunity to facilitate any and all efforts to assist users with their advanced optical disc technology choices in order to give consumers the benefit of innovative information and entertainment applications."

And.

First Meeting of HD DVD Patent Holders Held
Posted Oct 4, 2007 Print Version Page 1of 1


MPEG LA announced today that the first meeting of essential HD DVD patent owners, currently consisting of 16 companies, was held in Los Angeles on September 11 for the purpose of creating a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatory access to essential patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses. Initial participating companies include LG Electronics Inc.; Microsoft Corporation; Mitsubishi Electric Corporation; NEC Corporation; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; SANYO Electric Co., Ltd.; Sonic Solutions; Thomson Licensing; Toshiba Corporation; Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.(JVC); and Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Inc.



Care to comment?

[joquito]

Sony and toshiba own all the patents for their respective technologies. Oh, really?



And.



Care to comment?

What's your point? How is it relevant to the discussion, other than you gloating?

[theWacoKid]

What's your point? How is it relevant to the discussion, other than you gloating?

I think my point is clear. And you're wrong about a lot more than that. Should I continue?

Its over, and it'll be over far quicker than anybody thinks. Its in sony's best interests now, to meet with toshiba and resolve the war. I'm expecting sony will offer some type of compensation for toshiba throwing in the towel and ending production. This is what apple did when they withdrew their licence from third party mac hardware makers. They paid them off to end production.

Sony could offer cash or some type of royalty arrangement to appease Toshiba. Toshiba announcing an exit strategy would instantly shift paramount and universal to bluray. Toshiba has no chance of winning and they risk looking foolish selling a player that can only receive product from two studios. And they should withdraw before retailers make their decision for them and dump the hd dvd line which has pathetically low margins compared to bluray players. As it is, retailers may decide not to order any more players, for fear of having customers angrily returning them when the news sinks in that hd dvd is on its deathbed.

This thing is done. For toshiba to continue is pure folly and a massive disservice to customers. Continuing to sell a soon to be orphaned product is sheer idiocy.

[T.Tashi]

About porn... this ain't 1984. When was the last time anyone here purchased a disc to watch some porn? Anyhoo...

Big-time porn studio Vivid has announced its first Blu-ray porn movie, so there's obviously a leak somewhere in the Blu-ray condom. Even the Blu-ray disc Association has reacted quickly by saying there is no ban against adult movie content.

And btw, when I was a kid one of my friend's dad had a huge porn collection entirely in betamax. We used to sneak and watch it when he wasn't there. That I personally remember.

[thelastword]

You are such a Sony Lapdog. ROM-MARK does nothing to stop BD movies from showing up on newsgroups, torrents, or being copied to home PCs, and servers. Its just a watermark for customs to check large shipments of Discs. Actually, BD+ didn't either, so where is the DRM superiority? Where are the full profile BD players? You still haven't given any real examples of how BD's extra capacity has come into play in regards to movies. Keep posting Lastword, all you are doing is turning your moment of victory into a moment of shame.Dude, you're way out of your league here....I'm a Sony Lapdog? You darn right I am, I like to win.


I find it really funny that a man who calibrates tv's for a living, knows so little on the Bluray/Hddvd scene. It's clear that you're in bed with a dead format, what's up with this necrophilic stance anyway? but I digress, let's get down to basics....


Frankly, you don't deserve to have this conversation if you can't see the worth or applaud the rom mark technology in bluray, taking into account the ease of mind it brings to the table for movie studios and bluray partners alike. What you've stated as relates to torrents of BD movies is besides the point and that does not diminish the effectiveness of the BD ROM MARK TECH, it doesn't offset it's purpose.

You simply don't know, so I'll let you know, the reason for the rom mark tech is not the bs you spilled about customs, that was laughable and assy. I mean how do you propose that this would help customs? "OH! IT HELPS THEM ON LARGER SHIPMENTS" What the eff...

Do you think that the rom mark is a watermark placed on the shipment box, perhaps the bluray case, ohhh shiii...t maybe the container?, how about the palette where that huge box of bd movies are placed? tell me, where lays the foundation for this assy insinuation and thought pattern, because frankly, I refuse to believe that you're saying that customs officials are going to expedite larger shipments by popping every BD Disc on a "LARGE SHIPMENT" to ensure it's veracity, "Open container, shipment boxes, tear wrapper off bd disc, open case"....."Oh! here's that "WATERMARK", NEXT DISC please. We're surely expediting that huge shipment with these watermarks "says the customs official".:rolleyes: Dude, let's just forget that pile ever came out your ass, it's embarassing.

Anyhoos, since you don't know, I'll fill you in. The purpose of the ROM MARK TECH is to prevent any worthwhile bit by bit duplication of HD Movies or copyright content to BD-R/W. Unless the ROM MARK is on the disc it won't play in any BD player, get it, NONE. In essence, you would need the rom mark machine at your home to make it work. I don't know if you have plans, but if you do, let me know. At this point in time, I can take any original DVD, use any standard disc copying software and burn, it's guranteed to work on even the cheapest and lamest DVD player at Walmart, this is what the ROM MARK prevents. Hope you get it.


As for the bit on torrents, the majority of HD MOVIES online are HD-DVD rips, that's the majority. I won't deny that there are bluray rips, but even then, these BD rips are mostly playable in select software video players (VLC) with many codec issues, like WMP11's reluctance to play .mkv and .ts files. My point has been made though, why don't you try burning these rips to a BD-R and let us know how it works for you. The most problematic blow with piracy, is that you can purchase a physical pirated copy of any type of DVD content anywhere, like movies/games, go home and it works. The rom mark stalls that, the main channel of pirated content distribution that is, that is the point. So if folk want to download 25-50 gigs of HD content, stream it over lan or wireless, then so be it, but these guys selling pirated software will not have a thing to sell on BD.

[thelastword]

Ok seriously, I was looking for even a semblance of a point from these snippets, that challenged anything I said, and I found none, hell, I've never seen a rebuttal so weightless and feathery. You supported my points more than anything else and I'm still trying to find out what yours is.

Cases in point....."Bluray Vs Hddvd, no one is winning" really? "Region encoding causes bluray to lose exclusives" How could this be, why was this thread started? Oh shiiit, because Warner just went TOTALLY EXCLUSIVE to bluray, yeah, region encoding really effed that up for bluray. Hell, even your CNET article declares that there are more titles available for bluray at the end of 2007 and bluray came after HDDVD.....so what gives.

I mean it's funny, people speak like bluray was here ahead of HDDVD, like they started the race at the sametime (worldwide). HDDVD had the HD market all to itself for a good length of time, Bluray came along and on day one started to make it's mark, It started sailing way over HDDVD movie sales almost on impact, there were some issues starting the ball rolling, relative to the codecs used on early releases, and here we had HDDVD jockbiters and necrophiliacs stroking to the tune of how HDDVD was better, why? because it used more advanced codecs, oh! bluray doesn't support VC1, it's over for bluray lololol, how do you like that, "take that word" and all that ass, tools forgot MPEG4 completely, and had no foresight in knowing that VC1 would be supported soon after release.

I mean the history of this thing has been debated, I've detailed the lowdown many times, you know, with time many things are ironed out. Hell, it's the same situation with the 360 against the PS3, but we all know which machine is superior and which is better built, but yes, all we want to get down to are silly games that are squashed by the facts and the reality. So where are all these tools who kept on saying that HDDVD was going to win, I mean the nerve, even recently we had a loon making a thread about HDDVD's looming victory lol. "OMG MS moneyhatted paramount" major stuff guys, Megaton, it's over for bluray.....bla bla bull... and all the while bluray was assrap!ing HDDVD in sales, yeah, these guys really used the facts and came with all these worthwhile conclusions.:rolleyes:

Now surely, I don't take these loony posts seriously, good for a laugh maybe, but after all the dust is settled and folks are schooled by reality, there's still alot of wounded kitten Bsing going on, like is going on here.

I mean come on, when guys are still talking bs about space disparity, you know these tools are wounded in the head, because you can't tell me that folk don't know that 50 is greater than 30, and yes, the fact that 50 is greater makes it superior....I'm not bsing, that's the truth.. ask any maths teacher for reference. Now that this settled, it is then that you get the bsing twisting angle...yeah! that one about planet earth and people not making full use of the disc space. I'm sorry, but the last I checked, bluray launched just over a year ago and if studios didn't take full advantage of the format in it's first year, does that mean the space is not needed or worthwhile. It's the same useless argument that is brought up on the console front.....Woops! Oblivion is 5 gigs, bluray was not necessary, I mean what type of backward thinking bsssssery is that. Then Uncharted and Heavenly Sword came with high level audio and graphics and they're both 25 gigs, lair fills up the disc and we even we had launch games like RFOM that was 16 gigs and mstorm thereafter at 18 gigs.....bu buu buut Oblivion is 5 gigs, it didn't make use of the space, that will never change it will remain the same. foolish....so as I said, examples like this....mang!


But here, here's a perfect, real-world example of Blu-ray's "superiority" - or rather, lack thereof: Planet Earth - The Complete BBC Series. Available on all formats: Blu-ray, HD-DVD, and DVD. The HD-DVD version comes on 5 disks. Want to know how many disks the Blu-ray version come on? 5.(!) Where's the fracking difference? Where's that storage capacity superiority?! Answer: There is none. (Oh fyi, the DVD version comes on 6 disks.(!)) So I say yet again, bluray is here just over a year. Planet Earth was filmed over 7 continents for crying out loud, it took these guys over 25 million to produce P.E, surely they would want some returns, by and large everybody is fine with what they get in HD with the package, the package is praised everywhere and recommended. So the producer didn't pack in some extra content, yes, that comes only on DVD, not HDDVD and you take a shot at bluray for that, so where is your supposed fairness in this whole scenario? not forgetting HDDVD was here ahead of bluray, shouldn't more focus be placed on HDDVD to deliver there.

At the end of the day though it's clear, we had some HDDVD fanboys who wanted the format to thrive because the manufacturer of their console of preference was behind it. It's plain as the day, these guys want to deny superior space, superior security and superior durability for lesser tech, these were never folk who wanted the best format to succeed, these are folk who wanted the PS3 machine to fail because it's also a bluray player and also the best media center hub out there.


So people will continue to talk about trivialities, they spoke about PIP whilst watching an HD flick, as of firmware 2.10 the PS3 is BD 1.1 compatible, so that's done. These guys are so desperate, they're now talking interactive/animated menus, what...do you want to watch a perfect hd transfer or tinker with menus the entire day? I want to press play, that's what I want to do, people are just silly and i'm pretty sure these type of menus are coming on BD, but I'd rather have the guts, (the main reason I'd buy and hd film be intact first). I'd like to have unparalleled transfers like ratatouille in first and you can make the prettiest menus after. I'd like my sound fidelity to be unquestioned first and then you can tinker with other trivialities. It's the same issue with LIVE loons, they want live to be an alternative MSN MESSENGER first before they can play a smooth lagless game online, people have different priorities I guess, one thing is sure, loons will always be loons.

[Cuddly Knife]

Dude, you're way out of your league here....I'm a Sony Lapdog? You darn right I am, I like to win.I knew it. I knew you were in it for reasons other than games. You knucklehead, I think you need to read the resolutions thread and take it to heart, bro. Get some true perspective on why we're really here.

PFFFFT.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The guy is ridiculous. "I like to to win" what the hell is that about? Still wondering has he shared his PSN id with anyone here???

As for the Blu ray vs Hd-dvd I've always felt that if one of these formats ever took over for DVD I would go with Blu ay just because of the library alone. January is awesome RE extinction, War, Shootem up all on Blu Ray I'm sold Disney and Pixar for the kids it's a wrap for me.

MS need to smarten up and stop backing a losing horse they get nothing out of HD-DVD succeeding. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if ole Billy G announces a 360 with a Blu Ray player inside.

[theWacoKid]

The retailer exodus has begun, apparently. A phillips spokesman at a CES presentation after introducing their new bluray player let slip that Target would be going bluray exclusive.

[thelastword]

I knew it. I knew you were in it for reasons other than games. You knucklehead, I think you need to read the resolutions thread and take it to heart, bro. Get some true perspective on why we're really here.

PFFFFT.Lay off it Knife, if someone's going to accuse me of being a SONY lapdog for supporting a superior format, then that's what I'll be, a SONY effing lapdog.

I've declared right from the start that bluray was the better format, even before this whole movie thing was yet undecided. I embraced bluray for gaming first and foremost, I embraced the console that pushed things forward by giving us a next gen disc format to raise the bar in HD graphics and HD audio. When everybody wanted to remain stagnant and keep to measly DVD9's, I saw that these would not be enough going forward. People bickered and posted foolishness on how DVD was enough, and lo and behold I'm the one that's not in it for gaming? I want the best for gaming, so plans in the console world got to be realistic and futureproof, and it's all about the console manufactrurer that can deliver on that, it's all about the console manufacturer that can deliver on variety in games and depth in genres, that's where I'm at, that's where I'll always be, because that would be the console that's there for gamers.


We all know the new optical format does more than just gaming, I watch movies, and it's a great plus that I can now watch hidef movies along with games catering to the larger and higher quality format. Should I feel guilty for wanting the best tech, should I feel guilty for wanting the best value? You are bonkers Knife. Why should I support DVD9 and HDDVD, both inferior to Bluray, Hell, HDDVD is not even supported for games on competiting consoles, but bluray is, yes on the console that's pushing things forward in terms of tech and variety in games.

So anyone willing to call me a Sony lapdog for seeing the PS3's worth and embracing it's value, then I'll wear that stripe proudly. Anyone willing to call me a lapdog for embracing a high quality machine with superior quality parts, like (BD-ROM DRIVE) in the PS3, yes Knife, I will wear that stripe.

I guess somebody has to wear the stripe for the shoddy, 33% defect ratio'd console though, where you actually have to pay to messenger friends online and multiplay on a laggy P2P core, services that has been free on a PC forever, and is also free and superior on competiting consoles, hell, PS3 has high quality Video Chat that smacks messenger. I'm a gamer, I'm a consumer, I want the best, I'm willing to pay for it. I'm in it for the longhaul, not short term. Tell me about the folk suing MS over the shoddy live service over the holidays, yes the one that they pay for. Tell me why I'm hearing rumours about the XBOX720. It's your prerogative Knife, you wear that one, I'll wear the other proudly.

[theWacoKid]

As I stated, this is going to end quick. From the Financial Times.

Paramount in HD-DVD blow
By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas

Published: January 8 2008 02:00 | Last updated: January 8 2008 02:00

Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD-DVD following Warner Brothers' recent backing of Sony's Blu-ray technology, in a move that could sound the death knell of HD-DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD-DVD last summer, joining General Electric's Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.

However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD-DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.

Paramount is set to have a bumper 2008 with several likely blockbusters, including the latest instalment in the Indiana Jones franchise, slated for release.

Paramount joining the Blu-ray camp would leave HD-DVD likely to suffer the same fate as Sony's now obsolete Betamax video technology, which lost out to VHS in a similar format war in the 1980s.

Warner's decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format.

The Warner move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood's output, although the format's grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard.

It is unclear whether DreamWorks Animation has the same get-out clause in its contract with the HD-DVD camp. However, Paramount and DreamWorks have a close relationship, with Paramount distributing DreamWorks Animation films.

The two companies also signed their HD-DVD contracts at the same time.

Meanwhile, Universal has declined to comment on its next- generation DVD plans following the Warner move.

Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, yesterday held out an olive branch to its rival in the next-generation DVD format wars following Warner's decision to back Blu-ray.

Sir Howard said the company would be "open to dialogue" with the rival high-definition HD-DVD camp to "grow the market". The move came as new figures showed that Blu-ray had opened up a decisive lead over the rival home entertainment format.

Sir Howard said: "We are not going to push people around. We'll talk to anyone . . . we have a lot of work to do to grow the market. We'll be systematic and open to dialogue at all times."

He added that Sony still had "a lot of work" to do to get Blu-ray "widely accepted" among American consumers.

[Jaa Phaanom]

Hope this does not mean the end of all the buy one get one free sales they've been running lately. Blu-ray has been having so many promotions while HD-DVD has had much fewer.

[T.Tashi]

Hope this does not mean the end of all the buy one get one free sales they've been running lately. Blu-ray has been having so many promotions while HD-DVD has had much fewer.

Nah I wouldn't think so. They still need to grow the market. With hddvd out the way the battle is really only half won. With all the reports of analog TVs going the way of the dodo bird within a year I would think Sony would be really aggressive in pushing hidef.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

I work for **** ****** and I'm getting a real kick out of these replies.

[Gadfly2317]

It's pretty bizarre that there are people here that seem to be rooting for HD-DvD to defeat Blu-Ray. Why? Even if you are a 360 fan, you are still a gamer first, so why not root for the medium that also happens to be featured in a game console. . . most of you guys will probably get a Ps3 eventually anyway.

[T.Tashi]

It's pretty bizarre that there are people here that seem to be rooting for HD-DvD to defeat Blu-Ray. Why? Even if you are a 360 fan, you are still a gamer first, so why not root for the medium that also happens to be featured in a game console. . . most of you guys will probably get a Ps3 eventually anyway.

In an interesting plot twist, Microsoft says they're not above making a bluray add on.

At the Consumer Electronics Show two years ago, shortly after Microsoft announced the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, the company's then-Xbox marketing executive Peter Moore admitted that a future add-on that would play Blu-ray discs was not out of the question, if the need for one arose.

With Warner Bros. last week committing to produce Blu-ray movies exclusively, many industry watchers predicted that Sony's high-definition disc format--a prominent feature of the PlayStation 3--had scored a knockout punch on Toshiba's HD-DVD. At this year's CES, Microsoft's Xbox group marketing manager Albert Penello told Reuters today that the Warner move wasn't the end of the format wars, but acknowledged that his company is still keeping its options open.

"It should be consumer choice; and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider," Penello told the news service.

While Penello downplayed the potential impact of the Warner deal on Xbox 360 sales, he acknowledged that it wasn't something the HD-DVD backing Microsoft had wanted to see.

"You can't say it's not a bummer, not a setback, but I've seen this battle declared over so many times," Penello said, adding, "I want consumers to have a voice in this and I think there are a lot of consumers who bought HD-DVD who are going to have a say in how this shakes out."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184469.html?tag=result;title;0

[joquito]

It's pretty bizarre that there are people here that seem to be rooting for HD-DvD to defeat Blu-Ray. Why? Even if you are a 360 fan, you are still a gamer first, so why not root for the medium that also happens to be featured in a game console. . . most of you guys will probably get a Ps3 eventually anyway.

Being in the CE business, its not bizarre at all. There's a lot of confusion in the marketplace when the term High Definition is used. Most owners of upscaling DVD players think they already own an HD player. HD-DVD has always been cheaper and has offered more features, with the same video quality. Its price point should have allowed it to be adopted faster by those who would use it primarily as a video playback device. Price is key and only when we start to see $99 BD players will the transition to HD really start.
I would say that only 10% of my clients who own 360s/ PS3s have them even set to a resolution higher than 480, nevertheless use it as their primary video playback device. Heck, BD hasn't even been proven to significantly enhance gaming. So while the PS3s relatively awful sales were still enough to seal BDs fate as the next gen optical disc, it won't necessarily help BD become the defacto video playback device in livingrooms any time soon (Until $99 BD player hit the street). It eventually will, but it probably will be slower than I would like.

BTW,
Paramount denies the rumors from the Financial News.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/08/paramount-current-plan-is-to-support-the-hd-dvd-format-curre/#comments

[folken001]

PS3 is only doing poorly in US though. It's doing much better in other parts of world. The war is pretty much over at this point. Paramount denied getting paid from M$ and Toshiba for going HDDVD exclusive too. I don't really listen to their bs. Any person with common sense know paramount will switch side soon. The original contractal period wasn't long anyway. While the exact terms of contract isn't known to public, but it is said by multiple sources that paramount put a escape clause in the contract. I would think that it allows them to get out if HDDVD is doing worse. I don't see how it can go much worse for the HDDVD. With only 2 major studios left on the HDDVD side, Universal probably won't stick with HDDVD for too long.

This is like the first Sony format victory ever?

[theWacoKid]

I would say that only 10% of my clients who own 360s/ PS3s have them even set to a resolution higher than 480, nevertheless use it as their primary video playback device. ]

You must have an idiot client base, well, that explains why they use you.

[joquito]

PS3 is only doing poorly in US though. It's doing much better in other parts of world. The war is pretty much over at this point. Paramount denied getting paid from M$ and Toshiba for going HDDVD exclusive too. I don't really listen to their bs. Any person with common sense know paramount will switch side soon. The original contractal period wasn't long anyway. While the exact terms of contract isn't known to public, but it is said by multiple sources that paramount put a escape clause in the contract. I would think that it allows them to get out if HDDVD is doing worse. I don't see how it can go much worse for the HDDVD. With only 2 major studios left on the HDDVD side, Universal probably won't stick with HDDVD for too long.

This is like the first Sony format victory ever?

Sony and Phillips created the Compact Disc. Technically, Betamax was a success due to the pro market. It just seems like the first success given long list of failed formats.

[theWacoKid]

PS3 is only doing poorly in US though. It's doing much better in other parts of world. The war is pretty much over at this point. Paramount denied getting paid from M$ and Toshiba for going HDDVD exclusive too. I don't really listen to their bs. Any person with common sense know paramount will switch side soon. The original contractal period wasn't long anyway. While the exact terms of contract isn't known to public, but it is said by multiple sources that paramount put a escape clause in the contract. I would think that it allows them to get out if HDDVD is doing worse. I don't see how it can go much worse for the HDDVD. With only 2 major studios left on the HDDVD side, Universal probably won't stick with HDDVD for too long.

This is like the first Sony format victory ever?

The irony is that its toshiba that pulled the betamax, you know, the one vendor format. How hd dvd fans can be so deluded that they think studios would actually back a one vendor format from a company whose quality is mediocre at best is beyond me.

Jokequito if he had any self respect would tell you the retail industry hated hd dvd. They made way more money off a bluray player than an hd dvd player, and that firesale promotion by walmart had the best buys of this world fuming. Toshiba ships wally mart 90k of discontinued hd a2s to sell at $99, BB gets none, so best buy has to slash prices on the hd a3 below their cost to maintain store trafffic. Oh, yeah, retailers love doing that and retailers just love when you pack in movies in the box, so the schmuck getting the great deal from you doesn't have to buy movies from you.

Dvd was a successful product long before dvd player prices hit $99. jokequito is just your standard sony hater.

[silversparrow]

Sony and Phillips created the Compact Disc. Technically, Betamax was a success due to the pro market. It just seems like the first success given long list of failed formats.

Sony was also successful with the 3.5" floppy.

[theWacoKid]

"It should be consumer choice; and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider," Penello told the news service.


With friends like these, who needs enemies.

[Mochan]

<I>DTM
The guy is ridiculous. "I like to to win" what the hell is that about? Still wondering has he shared his PSN id with anyone here???</i>

Well I like to win too but I am not entirely sure what TLW means by it.

<I>DTM
As for the Blu ray vs Hd-dvd I've always felt that if one of these formats ever took over for DVD I would go with Blu ay just because of the library alone. January is awesome RE extinction, War, Shootem up all on Blu Ray I'm sold Disney and Pixar for the kids it's a wrap for me.

MS need to smarten up and stop backing a losing horse they get nothing out of HD-DVD succeeding. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if ole Billy G announces a 360 with a Blu Ray player inside.</i>

As far as I can tell, the only reason MS is backing HD DVD is because they want Bluray to fail. I don't even think MS wants HD DVD to win. They just want Bluray to fail and give Sony yet another headache. Bill Gates doesn't even want optical media he just wants network downloads all over the place.

[folken001]

The irony is that its toshiba that pulled the betamax, you know, the one vendor format. How hd dvd fans can be so deluded that they think studios would actually back a one vendor format from a company whose quality is mediocre at best is beyond me.

Jokequito if he had any self respect would tell you the retail industry hated hd dvd. They made way more money off a bluray player than an hd dvd player, and that firesale promotion by walmart had the best buys of this world fuming. Toshiba ships wally mart 90k of discontinued hd a2s to sell at $99, BB gets none, so best buy has to slash prices on the hd a3 below their cost to maintain store trafffic. Oh, yeah, retailers love doing that and retailers just love when you pack in movies in the box, so the schmuck getting the great deal from you doesn't have to buy movies from you.

Dvd was a successful product long before dvd player prices hit $99. jokequito is just your standard sony hater.
Sounds logical.

as for me, i dont' really have a problem buying a 300 or 400 dollars player as long as the media doesn't get too expensive. If hddvds are really so cheap to make, why am I paying the same as blu-ray movies to get a hddvd movie?

one thing annoys me about hddvd camp is that hddvd supporters are very vocal. (not here per se). they feel the need to defend just about everything. I have been reading the posts on hd forums and hddvd ppls would even jump in blu-ray's threads and just blah at everything. I find that very annoying.

[folken001]

<I>DTM
The guy is ridiculous. "I like to to win" what the hell is that about? Still wondering has he shared his PSN id with anyone here???</i>

Well I like to win too but I am not entirely sure what TLW means by it.

<I>DTM
As for the Blu ray vs Hd-dvd I've always felt that if one of these formats ever took over for DVD I would go with Blu ay just because of the library alone. January is awesome RE extinction, War, Shootem up all on Blu Ray I'm sold Disney and Pixar for the kids it's a wrap for me.

MS need to smarten up and stop backing a losing horse they get nothing out of HD-DVD succeeding. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if ole Billy G announces a 360 with a Blu Ray player inside.</i>

As far as I can tell, the only reason MS is backing HD DVD is because they want Bluray to fail. I don't even think MS wants HD DVD to win. They just want Bluray to fail and give Sony yet another headache. Bill Gates doesn't even want optical media he just wants network downloads all over the place.
I felt the same too. To M$, what does it matter which format wins? They aren't using either for their games. which do you think M$ wants to be successful? Xbox Live Movie download or hddvd/blu-ray?

[joquito]

The irony is that its toshiba that pulled the betamax, you know, the one vendor format. How hd dvd fans can be so deluded that they think studios would actually back a one vendor format from a company whose quality is mediocre at best is beyond me.

Jokequito if he had any self respect would tell you the retail industry hated hd dvd. They made way more money off a bluray player than an hd dvd player, and that firesale promotion by walmart had the best buys of this world fuming. Toshiba ships wally mart 90k of discontinued hd a2s to sell at $99, BB gets none, so best buy has to slash prices on the hd a3 below their cost to maintain store trafffic. Oh, yeah, retailers love doing that and retailers just love when you pack in movies in the box, so the schmuck getting the great deal from you doesn't have to buy movies from you.

Dvd was a successful product long before dvd player prices hit $99. jokequito is just your standard sony hater.

K-mart and Walmart loved HD-DVD due to its pricepoint making it the only viable choice for their respective customer bases. How many BD players are sold from Target? The time I spent working with Bestbuy, I never heard of a preference from Corporate on the local or national level. BestBuy sales staff favored BD based on the superiority fallacy (Sony Hype). Since you seem to know so much about CE retail, I hope you realize that BestBuy, and Circuit City, make far more money on accessories like cables, surge protectors, or installation, than most hardware. A surgeprotector, HDMI cable, Digital Coax audio cable, and extended warranty has more built in profit than the 40" LCD and Blu-ray player they are sold with. So a $99 HD-DVD sale is a chance to make real profit from accessories. This is Bestbuy and Circuit City's business model; no complaints from either there.

Your Betamax vs VHS analogy is as far off as possible. You are mistaking the cause for the effect. Even still those who still pray for a HD-DVD victory (I am not in this camp) realize that total hardware sales for either format are still miniscule making the format war techniqually
wide open.

What experience and background are you bringing to this debate Waco? Its fun and great to speculate, and even encouraged, but you offer nothing other than link grabbing. What do you have to back up your claim that I am a Sony hater? I've aways been open about my hope for HD-DVD and my preference for the Xbox. I have also reccommended, sold, and played with more Sony products than you ever will in your lifetime. Sony is a CE company that markets its products agressively, and prices them at a premium. They have a reputation in the consumer market of greatness, but not so in the High-end CE market, where other products are sold at the same price point of Sony, but with much more performance.

[theWacoKid]

K-mart and Walmart loved HD-DVD due to its pricepoint making it the only viable choice for their respective customer bases. How many BD players are sold from Target? The time I spent working with Bestbuy, I never heard of a preference from Corporate on the local or national level. BestBuy sales staff favored BD based on the superiority fallacy (Sony Hype). Since you seem to know so much about CE retail, I hope you realize that BestBuy, and Circuit City, make far more money on accessories like cables, surge protectors, or installation, than most hardware. A surgeprotector, HDMI cable, Digital Coax audio cable, and extended warranty has more built in profit than the 40" LCD and Blu-ray player they are sold with. So a $99 HD-DVD sale is a chance to make real profit from accessories. This is Bestbuy and Circuit City's business model; no complaints from either there.

Your Betamax vs VHS analogy is as far off as possible. You are mistaking the cause for the effect. Even still those who still pray for a HD-DVD victory (I am not in this camp) realize that total hardware sales for either format are still miniscule making the format war techniqually
wide open.

What experience and background are you bringing to this debate Waco? Its fun and great to speculate, and even encouraged, but you offer nothing other than link grabbing. What do you have to back up your claim that I am a Sony hater? I've aways been open about my hope for HD-DVD and my preference for the Xbox. I have also reccommended, sold, and played with more Sony products than you ever will in your lifetime. Sony is a CE company that markets its products agressively, and prices them at a premium. They have a reputation in the consumer market of greatness, but not so in the High-end CE market, where other products are sold at the same price point of Sony, but with much more performance.

What a loon, you're so full of it, like you have any chance of selling some cheapo who wants his $99 hd dvd player with 7 free movies a monster surge protector, get bent. LIke the guy is going to get suckered into buying an extended warranty on his $99 hd dvd player. ROFLMAO!!! How much is an extended warranty on a $99 item, jokequito, you're hysterical.

You post unmitigated nonsense on this forum concerning patent rights, then slink back in your hole when proven wrong and then tell me to stop gloating. You're such an effin expert and you're proven wrong time and time again with a simple google search. You think because you were a best buy sales drone, that means something, wtf do you know about how corporate entities make decisions, you've moved to calibrating tvs, like that means anything. PUhleasse.

[T.Tashi]

Sony is a CE company that markets its products agressively, and prices them at a premium. They have a reputation in the consumer market of greatness, but not so in the High-end CE market, where other products are sold at the same price point of Sony, but with much more performance.

I love the Playstation for the sheer amount of rpgs and action adventure it dropped in my lap the last 2 systems, and I love Sony's software like Vegas, DVD Architect Cinescore, etc. Feature rich, rock solid, fast intutitive software that's easy on the resources. We use Adobe Premiere at work but I'd put Vegas up against it any day. But I avoid their other hardware electronics. TVs, laptops, receivers whatever it may be, because you typically pay 20% more for nothing more than Sony's name on the product. I do have a Sony Ericsson phone it was free with the contract.

[Mochan]

Bravias are too expensive.

[joquito]

What a loon, you're so full of it, like you have any chance of selling some cheapo who wants his $99 hd dvd player with 7 free movies a monster surge protector, get bent. LIke the guy is going to get suckered into buying an extended warranty on his $99 hd dvd player. ROFLMAO!!! How much is an extended warranty on a $99 item, jokequito, you're hysterical.

You post unmitigated nonsense on this forum concerning patent rights, then slink back in your hole when proven wrong and then tell me to stop gloating. You're such an effin expert and you're proven wrong time and time again with a simple google search. You think because you were a best buy sales drone, that means something, wtf do you know about how corporate entities make decisions, you've moved to calibrating tvs, like that means anything. PUhleasse.


What you see above is called a spin. Debate the content Waco.

I only worked with/ not for Bestbuy for about a year. I spent 8 years prior in the High End AV business. I do far more today than just calibrate TVs for a living. How about you?

BTW, almost no one buys HD players a la carte out of brick and mortar retailers. They are almost always purchased as an add on purchase to an HDTV.

[folken001]

looks like the war will be over sooner than you think...

In today’s Two Cents post on The Digital Bits, Bill Hunt states that "Paramount and Universal are going Blu, but sorting out all the legal details and organizing the logistics takes time".

Citing his sources which are "second to none", Bill notes that Universal may not announce until February due to contractual obligations that end in January.

For Paramount he states that they will want to have a couple of titles to announce, which also takes time.

Bill also mentions the pressure from retailers to move to a unified format, a factor that I also believe will be key in the upcoming months.

I know that Bill’s position is admired by some and despised by others, but it is certainly interesting to hear from him and his inside contacts - time will tell how accurate these statements are.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/09/the-digital-bits-paramount-and-universal-are-going-blu/