VGR's Personal GOTY 2007 Official Thread

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Ok, it's that time of year...nothing significant is being released between now and Jan 1st, we've all had a chance to open our Christmas gifts and play so let's take a survey of our own personal game of the year for 2007.

Mine?

Team Fortress 2 by miles

I'd say Bioshock is in a distant 2nd.

[Mochan]

I know I said I wouldn't put a decade old remake as GOTY but I have to say FF Tactics War of the Lions.

[ceevee]

Europa Universalis III - gave me memories to treasure

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Game of the year?

Me Pimping Beeyotches!

[slade]

God of War 2.

[Cuddly Knife]

Goddam, I guess salde's right. GoW2 for me as well. Nothing really stands out too much.

skate. for a super-close runner up.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Heavenly Sword.

Close 2nd is a tie between Mass Effect and NCAA Football '08.

[Gadfly2317]

Super Mario Galaxy. There are a lot of good games, but its extremely rare to feel like there's a true genius to the design and gameplay. Super Mario Galaxy is pure genius. It's my personal favorite for the simple reason I had more fun playing this than anything else.

Second highest scoring game of all time. Damn.



Eye of Judgement deservese mention, if only for being so original and fun, and so very overlooked.

[BaneNWN]

Super Mario Galaxy. There are a lot of good games, but its extremely rare to feel like there's a true genius to the design and gameplay. Super Mario Galaxy is pure genius. It's my personal favorite for the simple reason I had more fun playing this than anything else.

Second highest scoring game of all time. Damn.



Eye of Judgement deservese mention, if only for being so original and fun, and so very overlooked.

Ya i have to say i seen this game in action at the local gamestop and it has me strongley considering getting a wii for this title alone.It was pretty fracking amazing from what ive seen of it.

[T.Tashi]

I could roll the dice on

Persona3
GoW2
Uncharted

Being the rpg nerd that I am, I have to go with Persona3.

[Jaa Phaanom]

This is a tough one for me because nothing really blew me away. My GOTY last year was GRAW and GRAW 2 gets my nod again this year, edging out Halo 3, SMG, and Assassin's Creed. I just couldn't get enough of the Multiplayer in GRAW2.

Honorable mention goes to Portal, but it's just too darn short.

[Cuddly Knife]

RBH, I just played today(and beat a minute ago) Heavenly Sword, and boy, was that below average in every way other than production values. The framerate gave me headaches(except for the Bohan fight, which ran surpisingly smooth), and there was almost as much screen tearing and fps dips as AC. The combat was boring after about midway through the game, with almost zero variety in the enemies or the way you fought them and the bosses, and don't even get me started on all the after-touch segments,. which were about a third of the whole game. Ugh. As for the rest of the game, well, it could basically be called an advanced version of Dynasty Warriors, with flashier moves, and a teeny bit more variety in the scenery. This sums it up nicely: run here, fight a group of enemies, run there, fight another group of enemies, aftertouch segment, run here, fight some more groups of enemies, run to the boss, fight all his minions(or groups of enemies again), then fight him with his/her three-tiered health bars. Rinse and repeat for five levels, and occasionally add an extra after-touch and arena battle. Kai was a joy, though. Not playing her, but the humor she provided in the story.

In other words, this game can't even be compared to the first level of GoW2, much less anything else. Gotta put this game as my Biggest Dissapointment of the Year. Bummer.

[Gadfly2317]

I don't know if we did this already in another thread, but anyway. . .

I don't have games picked out for all categories, but my favorite action game this year was Contra 4 on DS. Probably a lot of tilt due to nostalgia; Contra III the Alien Wars was once one of my favorite games of all time, and Contra 4 is an absolutely perfect continuation of that type of gameplay.

I hope Ninja Gaiden DS pulls off what its doing as succesfully as Contra 4 did.

[theWacoKid]

RBH, I just played today(and beat a minute ago) Heavenly Sword, and boy, was that below average in every way other than production values. The framerate gave me headaches(except for the Bohan fight, which ran surpisingly smooth), and there was almost as much screen tearing and fps dips as AC. The combat was boring after about midway through the game, with almost zero variety in the enemies or the way you fought them and the bosses, and don't even get me started on all the after-touch segments,. which were about a third of the whole game. Ugh. As for the rest of the game, well, it could basically be called an advanced version of Dynasty Warriors, with flashier moves, and a teeny bit more variety in the scenery. This sums it up nicely: run here, fight a group of enemies, run there, fight another group of enemies, aftertouch segment, run here, fight some more groups of enemies, run to the boss, fight all his minions(or groups of enemies again), then fight him with his/her three-tiered health bars. Rinse and repeat for five levels, and occasionally add an extra after-touch and arena battle. Kai was a joy, though. Not playing her, but the humor she provided in the story.

In other words, this game can't even be compared to the first level of GoW2, much less anything else. Gotta put this game as my Biggest Dissapointment of the Year. Bummer.

This is rich, aren't you the big effin AC defender, chastising me for not "immersing" myself in the experience, yet here you are, bit#$ing and moaning about rinse, repeat gameplay in HS, when AC is nothing but a slew of rinse, repeat gameplay, boring ass pseudo missions. And a technical botch of a game, with non stop screen tearing, ass framerate, texture pop in, long effin loads and low rent cutscenes.

Way to immerse yourself in the experience, dude. ROfLMAO!!
.

[Gamer From '78]

This is rich, aren't you the big effin AC defender, chastising me for not "immersing" myself in the experience, yet here you are, bit#$ing and moaning about rinse, repeat gameplay in HS, when AC is nothing but a slew of rinse, repeat gameplay, boring ass pseudo missions. And a technical botch of a game, with non stop screen tearing, ass framerate, texture pop in, long effin loads and low rent cutscenes.

Way to immerse yourself in the experience, dude. ROfLMAO!!
.

Well, serves you right for buying a PoS3 and it's crap versions of multiplats. Up yours MassiWhacko and have a grim new year! :rolleyes:

[Cuddly Knife]

I think 78 summed it up best by quoting something you like this:Puke, spew, barf.

AC had a ton of variety compared to HS. Really, the two shouldn't even be compared. AC is more impressive in every way. There is not a scrap of exploration involved in HS. You just travel the path to the next group of enemies waiting for the slaughter. Why have a variety of enemies when they all fight the same, even the bosses, to some extent. You know how you unlock stuff in HS? The higher the combos you get, the more stuff you unlock. Dumb. That shows where all the focus is, hence the DW comparison.

FYI, I played the sh!t out of this game, and even dabbled a little in Hell Mode today, just to see what was up. Not a damn thing was. It's not like i played a mission or two, then thought the rest of the game was crap because of it. When I bag on this game, it's because it had a lot to live up to, and from what we've seen in other games of the same genre it isn't even in the same ball park. I only mentioned the screen-tearing and shotty framerate for tlw benefit.:D. But trust me when I say that I played HS to the best of my action/adventure abilities, and I got everything that I was going to out of it, gameplay-wise. I don't half-ass games and then diss on them because of an element didn't agree with me, like you, Mister Kid.

Now, on to CoD4.

[ilnadmy]

Call of Duty 4 by miles and miles. I finished the game on Veteran and I actually feel like going back and playing it on Veteran again. The game is just so well put together, with every level being extremely different than the one before it. Plus, the multiplayer is just sublime.

[Glockstar]

Ok, it's that time of year...we've all had a chance to open our Christmas gifts and play so let's take a survey of our own personal game of the year for 2007.

No, we all have NOT had a chance to play thru all of the games we wanted to play this year.

Normally I like to do my awards "ceremonies" on the 1st day of the new year but this year was a... well lets just say it was a strange year... and there were several impediments that greatly reduced my game time. From my 360 being in the shop a few times, to working out of state for a month, to other personal issues that I'm not about to get into here... I'd say I lost at least 3 months game time!

I'm not about to delay my GOTY's that long, but I am giving myself an extension. Just a couple more weeks; a couple more games. (GameStop had The Darkness on sale this past week (360 version) for $19.99 so I picked that up; and I've been seeing this Portal get mentioned a lot already in several GOTY's so I have to check this game out.)

[slade]

RBH, I just played today(and beat a minute ago) Heavenly Sword, and boy, was that below average in every way other than production values. The framerate gave me headaches(except for the Bohan fight, which ran surpisingly smooth), and there was almost as much screen tearing and fps dips as AC. The combat was boring after about midway through the game, with almost zero variety in the enemies or the way you fought them and the bosses, and don't even get me started on all the after-touch segments,. which were about a third of the whole game. Ugh. As for the rest of the game, well, it could basically be called an advanced version of Dynasty Warriors, with flashier moves, and a teeny bit more variety in the scenery. This sums it up nicely: run here, fight a group of enemies, run there, fight another group of enemies, aftertouch segment, run here, fight some more groups of enemies, run to the boss, fight all his minions(or groups of enemies again), then fight him with his/her three-tiered health bars. Rinse and repeat for five levels, and occasionally add an extra after-touch and arena battle. Kai was a joy, though. Not playing her, but the humor she provided in the story.

In other words, this game can't even be compared to the first level of GoW2, much less anything else. Gotta put this game as my Biggest Dissapointment of the Year. Bummer.

It was pretty much my biggest disappointment of 2007 too but then I think you were in the thread where I warned all you guys against purchasing this game.

RBH's taste in action games is pretty much opposite of mine. That and he's got a stick shoved up his ass when it comes to these action characters showing actual emotion on screen. He'd just like them all to be silent badasses except for the women apparently although he hasn't regaled us with his take on Heavenly Sword's Nariko. I know I didn't like the whole, 'I wanna slit my wrists because of my cursed destiny,' melodrama but if I didn't like it, I'm sure he loved it.

[Mochan]

I was looking forward to playing HS one day because I actually like Dynasty Warriors gameplay (there's just something... fulfilling about slaughtering thousands of soldiers senseless) but after hearing about all the hiccups on the game and hearing about all that melodrama crap (I hate that) I am gonna pass and just pick up Gundam Musou whenever I buy either 360 or PS3 probably a year or two from now.

[Mochan]

I could roll the dice on

Persona3
GoW2
Uncharted

Being the rpg nerd that I am, I have to go with Persona3.

Persona 3 was my original choice but after I realized that my game time in FFT War of the Lions had already passed the 120 hour mark (which was my game time for Persona 3) and I was still avidly levelling up TG Cid and Cloud to get them Move+3 and what not, plus I actually had incentive to do so in order to play wifi multiplayer with my best friend, I realized that my personal GOTY simply had to be War of the Lions, decade-old-remake be damned.


For other genre/awards would go something like:

Best Adventure Game: Phoenix Wright 3
Best FPS: Crysis
Best PC RPG: The Witcher
Best console RPG: Persona 3
Best handheld RPG: War of the Lions
Best Action Game: Contra 4
Best Puzzle Game: Crush
Best Expansion Pack: NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer
Best Strategy Game: Opposing Fronts
Biggest Disappointment: Bioshock
Biggest Pile of Turd: Two Worlds

I would like to give a shout out to Tekken Dark Resurrection and Gothic 3, which while released in the end of 2006 I only played this year and while technically they don't qualify for anything ate up a huge chunk of my 2007.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I just started playing this game and thus far i'm blown away. Every single thing is TOP SHELF thus far. The graphics are incredible, the facial expressions, eye-movements, voice acting, it even exceeds Uncharted. All the Alien species and the history behind them. The story thus far is really interesting. And the gameplay is superb and DEEP!!!! I love it. This Glocky is a FP-RPG!

What I love is they have once again went outside their comfort zone and created another gameworld completey unique from their previous games. From BG to KOTOR to JE and now this game all of their games feel like unique experiences. I thought this game would just be KOTOR in new clothing, this game FEELS nothing like KOTOR nothing.

I love the interface and how easy everything is to navigate. Even though it is a true RPG, the upgrading system is very easy to understand, it is very concise. The result is you spend less time fiddling with upgrade options and more time playing, even though you have seemingly more options! Also you make branching choices with no regret, because you can clearly see the options and how your character would develop based on the choices you might take.

I understand this game has some flaws. I do not know what they are yet because I haven't read any reviews. I understand some of the flaws were performance or technical in nature. I've barely scratched the surface of this game but these must be some serious flaws because this game early on is mighty impressive.

Oh and when the action starts, I don't know if i'm playing a shooter or an rpg! And thank you Bioware an adult oriented, deep and complex game. Something you can sink your teeth into. Is it GOTY in my book? Not nearly deep enough to say, but it sure is headed in that direction.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

It was pretty much my biggest disappointment of 2007 too but then I think you were in the thread where I warned all you guys against purchasing this game.

RBH's taste in action games is pretty much opposite of mine. That and he's got a stick shoved up his ass when it comes to these action characters showing actual emotion on screen. He'd just like them all to be silent badasses except for the women apparently although he hasn't regaled us with his take on Heavenly Sword's Nariko. I know I didn't like the whole, 'I wanna slit my wrists because of my cursed destiny,' melodrama but if I didn't like it, I'm sure he loved it.

I'd rather a character be silent than spewing lame dialogue like Dante has in his past games. It definitely doesn't make him feel more like a badass just because he's repeating stuff from the TMNT cartoon show.

You can warn people about this game or that game all you want. People should decide on a game based on what they want, not what you say about it. You're just another opinion, not some action game know it all, though a couple of people look up to you as some know it all.

What I love is they have once again went outside their comfort zone and created another gameworld completey unique from their previous games. From BG to KOTOR to JE and now this game all of their games feel like unique experiences. I thought this game would just be KOTOR in new clothing, this game FEELS nothing like KOTOR nothing.

I agree. Though I never played Baldur's Gate, the other three games definitely feel unique. Just take a look at the combat from KOTOR, JE and now ME. None of them feel the same, IMO. They're not just rehashing stuff like J-RPG devs (I cannot play a turn-based rpg again). I bet they'll improve the combat for Mass Effect 2.

With that said, there was still one thing about the game that knocked the game down from GOTY, IMO, but just barely. If I would have played the game differently (and rushed through it instead of exploring), then my vote would have gone to Mass Effect.

[slade]

I'd rather a character be silent than spewing lame dialogue like Dante has in his past games. It definitely doesn't make him feel more like a badass just because he's repeating stuff from the TMNT cartoon show.

It's called campiness and I don't know about you but TMNT was one of my favorite cartoon shows back in the day.

You can warn people about this game or that game all you want. People should decide on a game based on what they want, not what you say about it. You're just another opinion, not some action game know it all, though a couple of people look up to you as some know it all.

But apparently, in this case, I was right. Cuddly could have just rented the game though. It's not like it would take all that long to finish.

[Mochan]

I
I agree. Though I never played Baldur's Gate, the other three games definitely feel unique. Just take a look at the combat from KOTOR, JE and now ME. None of them feel the same, IMO. They're not just rehashing stuff like J-RPG devs (I cannot play a turn-based rpg again).


Do you guys even play JRPGs? Tell me does the combat for the following JRPGs feel like rehashes of each other:

Persona 3
Valkyrie Profile 2
FF Tactics
Tales of Legendia
FF12
Grandia 3
Arc the Lad Twilight
Breath of Fire 5

I can understand not liking the genre, and I can respect that, but you act as if every JRPG still made has the same archaic system used in Blue Dragon. Most of the games I listed above are fairly recent, except for BOF5, Arc Twilight and FFT which I include as exceptional examples of different combat styles (and other than FFT they are more or less contemporary to Jade Empire anyway). While we still get JRPGs today which stick to the old rehashed system (such as Suikoden 5, the last major RPG of this style of gameplay that I enjoyed) JRPGs have other kinds of gameplay aside from the classic turn-based combat.

If you think JRPGs today are all like Blue Dragon, you're in for a shock. I blame MS and its stupid business strategies to conquer the Japanese market for giving us dreck like Blue Dragon, a game with a style that was old ten years ago but might have found a place back then.

Please, Bioware rehashed the same combat ad nauseam from Baldur's Gate to KOTOR. The only times they've tried something different is in Jade Empire and Mass Effect. Let's not get ahead of ourselves I know many of you liked JE but it was a junk game for me (including its awkward, crappy combat system).

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I actually think you're wrong about Blue Dragon. It's similar to FFXII or Grandia as far as you being able to see your enemies and there aren't any random encounters. The asinine charcters and story and how easy it is. Is what killed the game. But the Gameplay isn't the archaic Jrpp mold.

[Cuddly Knife]

Slade, I didn't buy the game. I borrowed it from my niece. I actually thought about trading her it for Motorstorm, but then I decided to wait and play it to see. Glad I waited.

I wish I could've played Eternal Sonata.

[thelastword]

Do you guys even play JRPGs? Tell me does the combat for the following JRPGs feel like rehashes of each other:

Please, Bioware rehashed the same combat ad nauseam from Baldur's Gate to KOTOR. The only times they've tried something different is in Jade Empire and Mass Effect. Let's not get ahead of ourselves I know many of you liked JE but it was a junk game for me (including its awkward, crappy combat system).It's crazy, but all of a sudden it seems it's an in thing to loop JRPG's in the bin of disdain.....OH! it's a JRPG...and the ignorant bits that follow.

How is every JRPG the same? as you've stated Chan, some of the statements here are bonkers, but like you, I won't sit here and say that I understand the hate towards JRPG's, because IMO there is no basis in ignorance and it's trappings. You have listed several JRPG's that play differently and I could list even more, like Shadow Hearts Covenant and KH for e.g. How can people form an opinion on JRPG's, when it's clear from their writeups that they don't even play them.

At this moment on consoles, Bioware's rpg's are the standard for WRPG's and what a standard that is; severe performance issues, wonky and braindead Ai (no challenge throughout), branching paths and story options that are all a joke. The main problem with these games (BIOWARE'S WRPG'S) is simply how shallow they are in contrast to top tier JRPG's. Games like FF10 is a classic, the grid system was deep and you could spend hours just taking on beasties in the canyon, alot of depth in the way the game approached you, like the fight with Sin on the ship, the fact that bosses in the game were not pushovers is another.

Thing is, you could easily push 200+ hrs in FF10, how about FF12? a totally different beast with it's freed up combat system and all the options you were allowed during combat, and I'm watching what they're doing with FF13 and that seems to be pushing things even further by giving us a more cinematic RPG with an even heavier and more fluid combat feel than ever before. JRPG's have not remained the same, hell looking at FF alone, it's quite evident, not all ff's play the same. Can someone point me to one gamebreaking performance issue in FF or KH or Persona, could someone give me a writeup on the lack of polish in these games? You just can't, RPG's are traditionally long games and games in that genre deserve the best polish a game can get.

[Mochan]

DTM, I'll make it clear that I haven't played Blue Dragon so I do not have the most informed opinion on it ironically, but I know how it plays from what I've read in the reviews.

And from what I've read it's basically the Lunar style of encounters where enemies are on-screen and if you meet them you get into combat. Then combat itself is basically the tried-and-tested classic Dragon Quest turn-based combat affair (same thing the old Final Fantasies had) with the only gimmick being that you have a Stand I mean dragon or something hovering behind you. Sounds like the same "archaic JRPG formula" to me sans the random encounters. Aka it is Lunar Silver story with next-gen graphics, or perhaps more to the point it is Chrono Trigger with nextgen graphics and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure stands.

On the list of RPGs I gave, the one which has combat closest to this is Persona 3, and even that is drastically different thanks to your team AI -- you control nobody in this game but yourself -- and the SMT critical system which gives you extra turns for doing criticals. Everything else I listed is significantly different from the classic turn-based model which Blue Dragon uses, VP2 uses a modified grid-based system, FFT uses the tactical RPG system first used in Tactics Ogre, Legendia uses the Tales-style "Street Fighter" system, FF12 has the new "MMORPG" System, Grandia was turn-based but with an active 3D map and the time meter, Arc the Lad is a 3D tactical game, BOF5 had the tactical squad system merged with the Dragon Gauge and Survival Horror stylings. This just shows the breadth of the JRPG genre and how differently games can play. Sure you get a bunch of Atelier Iris and other classic turn-based JRPGs but you also get a huge deal of variety.


I am not saying Blue Dragon is a bad game, I haven't played it myself so I can't judge it, but everything I've read about it points to me not liking it at all. The only good thing about it that I've read is lack of random encounters. Other than that, I'm not interested. Blue Dragon was designed to be a throwback to the early days of JRPGs, this was to make a game that the Japanese market could relate to. That's why they got Akira Toriyama, Nobuo Uematsu and Hironobu Sakaguchi to do the job, these are traditional names in the JRPG world and according to Mistwalker they purposefully made a game that was as traditional as it got. The only thing missing was random encounters, thank god. I think I can easily say that Blue Dragon is a step back in the JRPG ladder, it's purposefully taking those steps backwards and as you yourself have said, it didn't do a good job of it either.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Obiviously my knowledge of JRpg's isn't as in depth as yours. But the hate comes from several aspects that haven't change primarily

1. The random encounters which seem to be going the way of the do do bird
2. The turn based nature of most of them (KH and the real time JRP's)
3. And the almost complete linearity of the gameplay
4. The typical preset Japanese characters
5. And the awful storytelling that more times than night if you aren a Japanophile doesn't translate.

Now the gameplay may be different to a degree but these core elements really haven't changed (outside of the seeming changing of random enocounters). And that's why they get the hate.


It's funny how these Turnbased Jrpg's get differentiated for there gamplay. But all FPS's are the same reading this board you would think Halo, Bioshock, and Rainbow Six all played the same

[Cuddly Knife]

That's why I hate on FPS. But yet, that's what I love about shmups.

[Mochan]

1. Random Encounters aren't an issue there are lot of "classic" JRPGs that still use random encounters and even I detest this, but there's a whole boatload of JRPGs in the past several years that don't use random encounters. All the RPGs I listed do not use random encounters, and there's more where they came from.

2. Many of them still do turn-based and I like that, I can understand that turn-based isn't everyone's cup of tea, in fact most people seem to hate turn-based these days whether in JRPGs or in strategy games. Some though still aren't turn-based but yes these are a minority.

3. Linearity is indeed there most of them are very linear, but then again so are most FPS, and the ones that are the least linear, you mostly haven't played I'm sure like Stalker and Crysis.

4. Well it appeals to the anime fan in me but I'm sure it turns off a lot of non-fans, and I can understand that.

5. See #4.

I can understand that it's not your cup of tea due to the Japanophile thing and certain other gameplay elements, but I will say that you are completely wrong on the gameplay and core elements. In terms of gameplay there's a hell of a lot more variety in JRPG gameplay than there is in FPS gameplay, and I'm a big FPS fan too. Again, you are showing that your concept of JRPG is still that most of them play like Blue Dragon. Which is clearly false. If you've played the games I listed you would know this. On that list the ones closest to the "traditional classic" gameplay are Persona 3 and Grandia 3, the rest are completely different.

I stand by saying that the gameplay differences between FFT, FF12, BOF5, and Tales of Legendia are a lot more significant than the differences between Halo, Bioshock and R6. The three aforementioned shooters still have the same core mechanic -- point gun and shoot with a little melee added in (Point wrench and shoot) and some use squad tactics and some mix in a little RPG element.

But the same cannot be said AT ALL about FFT, F12, BOF5 and Tales. Each of these are completely different gameplay modes. One plays like a board game, one plays like a real-time pause game (ala Baldur's Gate), one plays like a survival horror game and another plays like Street Fighter. And we're not even getting into the depth of the character systems of these games. Can you say that about the diversity of gameplay in FPS?

Again, I play both JRPG and FPS extensively these are my two primary gaming genres, I know what I'm talking about.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You're probably right about the JRPG depth of depth of diversity. So I want even attempt to debate which genre has more diversity. My point is like it's been for a while that the interenet (and this board especially) likes to run with the "just another Fps" logic. When there is clearly a depth of diversity within the genre. So much there are seperate genre's being created FPA, and FPH(orror).

Personally no matter the combat system no matter the process of leveling up if it's turn based even strategy like Advance wars (which for some reason I love that and Civ) it feels similar and turns people off. So if you don't really like this major gameplay tenet in the genre who's really going to take the time to find ones they like. I'm all for new experiences but there is only so many hours in a day in my days anyway.

[Mochan]

I won't argue that FPS don't have diversity -- they clearly do and I wouldn't have the genre as one of my primary gaming genres if it didn't. Squad based tactical shooters play very differently from the classic run-and-gun shooters, ditto RPG-like FPS like Dark Messiah or Bioshock, and we also have stealth shooters like Thief, and big ass shooters like Joint Ops, MMOFPS like Planetside, and even the evolved "story shooters" like Half Life have made evolutions past the classic run and gun. Add to that the variety of gamemodes available within those games especially the ones that focus on online like UT3 and there's clearly a lot of variety to be had.

However I will argue that JRPGs have more diversity although I will agree that the genre is also victim to stagnation in that a lot of the games still being released today (like Atelier Iris) haven't evolved much for like the past 15 years.



Personally no matter the combat system no matter the process of leveling up if it's turn based even strategy like Advance wars (which for some reason I love that and Civ) it feels similar and turns people off.

What about the JRPGs which have cast off turn-based strategy, like FF12 or the Tales series and Star Ocean? Or the pause-based systems (ala Bioware) like Vagrant Story? These aren't turn-based at all.

Like I said, there exist JRPGs that are a totally different kind of game from the classic turn-based gameplay of old.

Anyway this isn't about what turns people off or what appeals to them -- there are people who will not like a genre no matter how diverse it is and that is just how things go. We're just discussing from an objective standpoint the diversity available in the genres, so that we can disspell this commonly held myth that JRPGs are stagnant and haven't evolved for the past decade or so.

Your thesis does however explain *why* this myth is prevalent, it's as you said some people see turn-based and they assume it's all the same. Turn-based just doesn't get any respect anymore and hasn't for like the past decade. Turn-based strategy has all but died on the PC ever since RTS was invented with just a few stalwards surviving (like your aforementioned Civ) yet RTS is a roaring genre which is even now beginning to spread to consoles. People just don't have the time or patience for TBS games these days and I think a lot of that reality spills over to RPGs as well -- RPGs have moved from turn-based (the days of Wizardry are numbered, the last huzzah Wizardry 8 was like 8 years ago) and moved to real-time as well.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Do you guys even play JRPGs? Tell me does the combat for the following JRPGs feel like rehashes of each other:

Persona 3
Valkyrie Profile 2
FF Tactics
Tales of Legendia
FF12
Grandia 3
Arc the Lad Twilight
Breath of Fire 5

I had Arc the Lad and FF 12 last gen. FF 12 was a better FF game than the last few, but it just didn't hold up to the type of RPGs I prefer playing nowadays. I wanted to get Valkyrie Profile 2, but could never find a new copy (may have to get it from Amazon.com). I had no interest in the other games.

I always though Vagrant Story should have had some sequels on the PS2.

There's still a couple of JRPGs that could be interesting, depending on when they come out (and if there's nothing else coming out that I want to play). Infinite Undiscovery is one right off the bat. I lost interest in White Knight Chronicles and Lost Odyssey, though.

[Cuddly Knife]

My favorite RPG has to be Dark Cloud 2. RBH, did you ever play that one? It was very good, but if you didn't like the battle in Eternal Sonata, then you might not like DC2. DC2 wouldn't be considered a jrpg, would it?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I remember playing Dark Cloud 1 way back in the early days of the PS2, but I can't remember the combat system in the game. I don't think I played Dark Cloud 2. Wasn't that the one that was cel-shaded?

[Mochan]

Dark Cloud 2 was a bit of a mishmash of genres in a way but it still falls under JRPG, the meat of the game is still basically JRPG albeit with randomized dungeons and again real-time action rather than turn-based. One of the great hits on the PS2 but mostly underappreciated as far as I can tell. There was just sooo much to do and the game was so fun, and you weren't just doing crap most of the extras you could do all went to the goal of powering up your character and making the later dungeons easier to finish.

For the life of me I know I reached the end of the game and finished it, but I can't remember how the ending was. Cuddly could you remind me?

[Cuddly Knife]

Dude, I never beat it. I got to the area where you meet up with your mom, couldn't figure something out, and then I just kind of drifted away. I had then started the game over because I had never messed with the photo option too much, and when i got that far, my guy was really weak(played the game like an action game. D'OH!), and when I started over, I got too into the Georama system and weapon creation. I also played too much of the golf game. Spheda, it was called?

And yeah, it was cel-shade style, RBH.

[Mochan]

Gosh I forget so many things, I can't remember meeting up with my mom either. I do remember the part near the end after you get on the train. Spheda, yeah that's the game. That thing took a lot of getting used to! The photo stuff was essential if you wanted to power up your character properly, you can't get a lot of weapons without those photos. (BTW Bioshock borrowed the photo system from this game, don't you think?)

[Gadfly2317]

The year's best download game was Every Day Shooter.

I also give Every Day Shooter "Best use of music." The guitar tracks are raw and mesh perfectly with the game; the way changes in action are preceded by these great musical buildups, and the way the explosions and other game noises integrate into the song. . .

I mean, this is not a music game, its a 2-d arcade shooter of the asteroids lineage, but the music is so good, so integrated into cueing you onto what's coming next.

Every Day Shooter has it all: extremely original gameplay yet in a totally old, well worn genre; the graphics are artsy, acid-soaked surrealism; the music is fantastic, I would buy the CD to listen to in my car; lots of cool unlockable features; and blistering action which is suprisingly often soothing, almost meditative. And it was made by one guy, which I think accounts for it feeling like such a strong and personal artistic statement.

It's not the Metal Gears, Mario's and Halos that make a console a must-own for me, its the little gems like this.

[Cuddly Knife]

Gad, do you use the buttons, or the sticks? I use the sticks, but on the little tutorial that JMak gives in the game, he says he got his high scores using the buttons. It seems to make sense, since you can only shoot in eight directions like in Robotron. I kind of dig how J made the game to have no leaderboards on purpose, saying how he wanted to keep it about the game and the person playing it. Not to make it so everyone was playing for the points, instead of the experience.

But then really, I just wanted to pimp that I scored over 110,000,000 points in Super Stardust HD the other day. WOO-HOO!!

And tlw, why don't you have SSHD? You pimp the game like you made it, practically.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

And yeah, it was cel-shade style, RBH.

No wonder I didn't play the game.

[Gadfly2317]

Gad, do you use the buttons, or the sticks? I use the sticks, but on the little tutorial that JMak gives in the game, he says he got his high scores using the buttons. It seems to make sense, since you can only shoot in eight directions like in Robotron. I kind of dig how J made the game to have no leaderboards on purpose, saying how he wanted to keep it about the game and the person playing it. Not to make it so everyone was playing for the points, instead of the experience.

But then really, I just wanted to pimp that I scored over 110,000,000 points in Super Stardust HD the other day. WOO-HOO!!

And tlw, why don't you have SSHD? You pimp the game like you made it, practically.

I use the sticks.

That's an amazing score on SSHD. I am absolutely terrible at that game, but I enjoy it anyway. I've always enjoyed these types of games my whole life (I was a little kid when Space Invaders came out, had to play it with something to stand on), but have always been pretty bad at them. Especially the Asteroids branch of shooter, tend to be a little better at the children of Space Invaders over the children of Asteroids. I really loved Gradius, R-type, Galaga (especially), Missile Command, Centipede, and a lot more I can't think of right now. I even liked Satan's Hollow and Gorf. I spent all my quarters on games from like 5yrs old on up until I quit games for sex drugs and rock n roll.

For some reason, I do somewhat better at Every Extend Extra and Every Day Shooter than I do at most other games in the Asteroids-style shooter genre.

Have you played Geometry War Galaxies for the Wii yet? I've been wanting to try it out.

[thelastword]

And tlw, why don't you have SSHD? You pimp the game like you made it, practically.Well, maybe I did....hmmmm....

[Cuddly Knife]

LOL, you wish.

Hell, I wish I made it.

Gad, I haven't a Wii to play on. Hell, it might actually not be in my hands till another year or two. Unless someone(like my sis) donates one my way, because I'm spending my flow on other things.

[Mochan]

... like sex drugs and rock and roll.

[Cuddly Knife]

Never tried sex drugs. LOL

But really, I am just spending it on rock and roll, because my drugs come super-cheap. And I'd never pay for sex. EEEWWWW.

[Gadfly2317]

. And I'd never pay for sex. EEEWWWW.

You pay. One way or another, you always pay.

[Glockstar]

Countdown to number one:

5. The Darkness – One of the few games I played this year where I stayed upbeat about my experience the entire time. All aspects of the game – graphics, sound, story, level design, AI, controls, weapons/powers, fun factor, etc, - were very good. But there’s a couple of things that Starbreeze excels at: 1) a cinematic presentation; and 2) details. FPS fans: You gotta try this one; it’s different!


4. Mass Effect – I’ve said a lot of bad things about this game, but make no mistake about it: I consider this game to be most excellent. I’ve said this before too, but I’m going to say it again: I consider it to be the quintessential RPG experience. Throughout the entire game they will call you “Shepherd”, not my name choice at all, but come the end I never felt such a feeling of… ownership, or accountability… in a videogame as I have this one. I was like, ‘Yeah; that’s me!’


3. Portal – Wow. Just, wow. I’m going to repeat myself again: The must-play game of the century! I don’t care who you are, or what you like. Even if the only video game you ever play is Madden, you have got to set that aside for a second and play this game. And if/when you do get thru it… I can guarantee that you’ll remember it forever.


2. BioShock – Like the other game’s thus far on my countdown, I think gamers are really missing out if they don’t play it. I experienced some frustration, and some disappointment during my initial playthru, but the sum of this game far exceeds it’s parts. Which is saying a lot, considering what I think of most its parts (see my 2007 Special Awards (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?p=114998#post114998)). It has such a wow-factor – such a concept; such atmosphere… ideology… personality… morals… - it leaves such a lasting impression. I love this game.


1. (GOTY) - Etrian Odyssey – It’s funny, because this is the only game on this list that I would not recommend to people. This game came to me on a recommendation by Renzatic Gear (thanks Beer!), and for a while there was a bunch of us playing it. But I don’t know how many of us actually finished it. I don’t think too many. It’s just too much of an acquired taste; it’s too long; too difficult; and requires too much patience. But it’s just about perfect for me and mine. I get so addicted to “leveling up”… and when you combine that with the “gotta finish it” aspect of the map drawing… you can understand why I would be so hooked. Plus, while the game is very slow and very repetitive, I think it’s also, somehow, paced very well. These moments, or these encounters, would occur at just the right time… and drive me further. This game owned me in 2007.

Etrian Odyssey also seperates itself from the other games I played this year by being technically flawless. Well, almost. I had only one real complaint with the game over my entire 100+ hour time with it (the medic will still cast her heal spell on a party member, even when/if that party member had gotten killed earlier in the turn – thus wasting her spell points… the game is difficult enough, and that… that’s just mean). It was a tough call between this and BioShock, and I’m well aware that this isn’t a popular decision… but it’s the right call. For me.

[Mochan]

The Darkness, I will probably try that someday, I mean I am so going to get a kick out of playing Ashton Anchors.

Mass Effect, I doubt any game will ever again breach the level of ownership and accountability you had in Fallout 2, Arcanum and even Planescape. They just don't make games like that anymore. But you know what? When ME ports to the PC I will try it anyway.

As for Portal again I say Crush is better. I disagree that it's that much of a must-play, it's really just a puzzle game.

Bioshock, meh.

Etrian Odyssey, I haven't gone back to kill that stupid Wyvern yet but you know someday I think I will. The medic casting on a dead person is not a technical flaw, it's just how the game was made. Other games of its ilk like Bard's Tale, Wizardry did the same thing after all.

[ilnadmy]

It's funny you should talk about The Darkness today, because I just downloaded the demo this morning and played it, and it was pretty fun. It doesn't feel like any other shooter I've played, but I'm wondering if the novelty will wear out after a few levels. So far I enjoyed the Darkness powers, but found them to be a little gimmicky. Also, the demo's framerate stuttered consistently. Is this fixed in the final PS3 version?