System Wars 2008

[ilnadmy]

I haven't had the time to read it yet, but there's a massive article on GameSpot about the outlook for the 3 consoles over the next year:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6184018.html?tag=latestnews;title;3

I'll read it as soon as I can, but it seems like it would make some good Sys Wars fodder.

[Glockstar]

I don't need to read it; I can tell you on my own right now where we're going to be next year: The same place we're at right now.

The PS3 has got a couple of big exclusives coming it's way... and will probably see another price drop before the holidays... so it will show some improvements saleswise.

But the 360 will have it's RROD issues ironed out... and games will continue to sell like hotcakes, particularly 360 versions of multiplats... so it will continue to draw the interest of even more developers and publishers, and get more PS2/PS3 type games... and will match Sony's price drop with one of it's own... so it too will show some improvements saleswise.

But the Wii has got a couple of really big exclusives coming - namely Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart... and will probably do a pricedrop of it's own... so you know it will continue to sell well.

So everybody will make gains... but they will be in lock-step with the other guy... so everybody will stay exactly where they are, with regards to being ahead and/or behind.


And the only thing for us to really talk about will be the games... and so this forum will continue to be a catch-all for general conversation and personal blog-posts.

There.

[Cuddly Knife]

I don't know about that article. It doesn't say much, or at least much that we don't already know or think.

I totally agree with Glock.

[PapaSmurf]

I read the article, and I'm not sure what to think of it. As a gamer I could really care less if Sony finishes last as long as I can find a way to play all the games I want to play. Up to this point I've been able to for sure play every game I want even if it wasn't on the PS3 or PS2, because of my PC set-up (Gears of War, BioShock, Halo's, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Fable, etc.) Most other games I want to play are or coming out on the PS3 (Lost Planet, Ace Combat 6, GTAIV, Madden, NCAA).

HOWEVER! For the first time a game that I really want to play on the 360 is coming out and I have no way of knowing if I can get it or not. Mass Effect, man oh man I think I want to play it the most behind MGS4. I would buy a 360 right now if I thought it would last. Oh well.

Sony is lucky it has MGS and FF on their side in terms of 3rd party games. Those two games go, and I'll be peacing out. I'm still pissed out about Ace Combat 6 leaving.

With that, I'm not sure if exactly agree with Glock, because in terms of this console war, HD movies are going to be heavily tied into if Sony wins. Blu Ray killed HD DVD last week in sales (www.hidefdigest.com) and have been doing so all year even the week when Transformers released. If next years all the studios were to commit to Blu Ray, I definitely see a lot more PS3's being sold just because of that. With HDTV's being sold like hot cakes this winter for christmas, only a fool would think this console war is going to be settled on games alone. Hell the Wii doesn't even have a single game I want to play and it's in 1st. Go figure.

[Glockstar]

HOWEVER! For the first time a game that I really want to play on the 360 is coming out and I have no way of knowing if I can get it or not. Mass Effect, man oh man I think I want to play it the most behind MGS4. I would buy a 360 right now if I thought it would last.

Dude... have no fear: You know Mass Effect will be coming to the PC. First off, it's a BioWare game. Second off, it was published by Microsoft. Both of those parties are ultra keen on recouping some of their costs with the added sales of the PC contingent.

The only question here is: Why the heck would you want to play this piece of crap?

[Mochan]

Well here's how the outlook looks like for my personal internal SysWars struggle:


PC -- will still be my primary gaming platform
PSP -- will always be in my pocket whenever I leave the house
360 -- will never by in my living room until the RROD issue is fixed -- and I doubt it will -- but I wish it would because I want to get a bunch of games for the 360 like Culdcept Saga, Dead Rising, Idolmaster, Ace Combat 6, etc.
PS3 -- at least 2 years before I will get one, if ever
Wii -- needs more games and needs to become even cheaper
DS -- will probably relegated to the junk bin or something for my little niece to play with

So in other words, I will probably not buy any of the 3 next gen consoles next year unless something miraculous happens, either:
a.) 360 releases a new SKU proven to have gotten rid of RROD issues
b.) PS3 gets a huge glut of awesome games
c.) Wii gets a huge glut of awesome games and my eyesight becomes so bad that I can stand looking at 480p on an LCD HDTV

***

Papa Smurf like Glock said just wait a bit, Mass Effect will come out on the PC, if not next year then the year after. I can guarantee it. And when it does it will run a hell of a lot better because the kinks on the 360 will have been ironed out, not to mention it'll have better hardware available to run on. Unless ME pulls a JE and turns out to be a crap port job.

And again I agree: why the hell would you want to play that piece of crap? (uninformed review basing on past Bioware hating and not actually having any experience whatsoever with the game)

[Mochan]

PS -- I just read the article and it's full of crap. It even erroneously calls the 360 the Wii:


Sony Computer Entertainment New Zealand's head of marketing, Warwick Light, said that in comparison, the Wii was not actually a next-gen system. He said, "Look at the tangible differences between processing power and scope for scalability between the PS3 and the Xbox 360. It is clear that the PS3 is designed to last until the next generation... DVD is current generation. Why would you support current generation?"

Talk about crappy editing.


BTW I am sick of hearing about this so-called Wii-shortage, it's totally bogus, or at the very least artificially generated. Why do I say this? If there were truly a Wii-shortage, I shouldn't even be seeing any Wiis being sold here in my country, why are they even here if they are supposedly sold out in NA? And I'm talking NA versions of the Wii here, not Japanese versions. Worse, I have lots and I mean lots of friends who are seeing family coming home from overseas for the holidays, and many of them are packing Wiis as pasalubong gifts -- and being bought for about $250US or so, these aren't jacked-up eBay robberies.

This Wii shortage schtick is BS.

[silversparrow]

This Wii shortage schtick is BS.

I don't know Mochan. Nintendo is now producing about 1.8 million Wiis per month. That's about twice as many at this stage than last year, and yet they still can't stock them in stores fast enough.

If this keeps up, there will be 40 million Wiis sold worldwide by next Holiday season.

Nintendo pretty much hit this one out of the ballpark.

[Cuddly Knife]

What's a pasalubong? I need one of those for the hydro?

[ilnadmy]

Pasalubong is Christmas spelled sideways.

[Mochan]

LOL not quite pasalubong isn't Christmas per se it's basically a gift you get for someone when you go somewhere where that person does not. So someone coming from a foreign country will come home and bring a pasalubong for someone who stayed home.

The root word of the term means "to meet" so basically it's a gift you get for someone you're about to meet.

[Cuddly Knife]

Sweet!

[T.Tashi]

I used to hate pasalubong because I knew it meant I had to carry a heavy ass box down 3 flights of steps. But we moved so now it's ok. :D

Nintendo has no reason whatsoever to drop the price til the PS3 or 360 hits $250.

I think the article is funny in that, nobody on the "inside" knows more than anyone else. :p

Ordinarily I'd say longevity is the key factor and the PS3 has the longest legs. But the Wii is a serious monkey wrench. It has its own rules.

Michael Bay "Transformers" had some interesting things to say about the format war.

The Island and Transformers director Michael Bay has slammed software giant Microsoft on his forum, saying that Microsoft has an agenda to get the world to embrace digital downloads and that this is the reason why the software company is supporting the HD DVD format and paying top money to Hollywood studios to choose this format over the superior Blu Ray.

In August, Paramount and DreamWorks Animation announced that they would be using the HD DVD high definion format exclusively and rumours at the time suggested that they were being well compensated for this decision.

In reference to his summer blockbuster Transformers not being released on Blu Ray, Bay wrote: ”Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads.”

It is messed up that bluray owners got screwed for no other reason than someone paid for it to happen. But what's funny is EZtakes.com has already perfected it, without all the DRM nonsense. I can download a 4 GB movie in about an hour and burn it as many times as I want and convert it into any format I want, watch it on any device I want.

I never thought it was either or... there is room for optical mediums and downloads and streaming. After all, what do people do with their dvds? Back them up on a harddrive. And what do people do with their downloads? Back them up on optical disc. I also rent movies on demand from my monopoly of a cable company. I like the international stuff. I watched The Host and some weird Japanese scifi and horror stuff that would be hard to get otherwise. So the more options I have, the better. Games are different. I've downloaded a few things but I prefer the whole package: boxart, manual, sometimes I even buy the guide.

Oh, and there is already a generic game machine. It's called the PC. I can hook my PC up to my HDTV if I wanted and play WoW so PC games aren't regulated to the "Desk" anymore.

[ilnadmy]

Yeah I read about that Microsoft digital downloads thing. Not surprising really, given the way they've moneyhatted exclusives on the 360 and are practically toughing it out in the console race thanks to the durability of their wallet.

[Mochan]

I think the article is funny in that, nobody on the "inside" knows more than anyone else. :p


Those insiders are just guessing abd hoping their bets pay off. Everyone is just playing catch up like EA who is only now ramping up Wii production, all those fools saying they knew the Wii would be big are just that: fools who "knew" but didn't capitalize.


It is messed up that bluray owners got screwed for no other reason than someone paid for it to happen. But what's funny is EZtakes.com has already perfected it, without all the DRM nonsense. I can download a 4 GB movie in about an hour and burn it as many times as I want and convert it into any format I want, watch it on any device I want.

That's not what MS means by "perfect." For them, 'perfect' means 'can't be copied, can't be backed, and plays only on Zunes, Windows PCs and other "MS-approved" players.'


Oh, and there is already a generic game machine. It's called the PC. I can hook my PC up to my HDTV if I wanted and play WoW so PC games aren't regulated to the "Desk" anymore.

Yeah. Problem is none of the "Big Three" want a generic game device they want proprietary hardware they can charge developers out the wazoo for big bucks in licensing.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I used to hate pasalubong because I knew it meant I had to carry a heavy ass box down 3 flights of steps. But we moved so now it's ok. :D

Nintendo has no reason whatsoever to drop the price til the PS3 or 360 hits $250.

I think the article is funny in that, nobody on the "inside" knows more than anyone else. :p

Ordinarily I'd say longevity is the key factor and the PS3 has the longest legs. But the Wii is a serious monkey wrench. It has its own rules.

Michael Bay "Transformers" had some interesting things to say about the format war.



It is messed up that bluray owners got screwed for no other reason than someone paid for it to happen. But what's funny is EZtakes.com has already perfected it, without all the DRM nonsense. I can download a 4 GB movie in about an hour and burn it as many times as I want and convert it into any format I want, watch it on any device I want.

I never thought it was either or... there is room for optical mediums and downloads and streaming. After all, what do people do with their dvds? Back them up on a harddrive. And what do people do with their downloads? Back them up on optical disc. I also rent movies on demand from my monopoly of a cable company. I like the international stuff. I watched The Host and some weird Japanese scifi and horror stuff that would be hard to get otherwise. So the more options I have, the better. Games are different. I've downloaded a few things but I prefer the whole package: boxart, manual, sometimes I even buy the guide.

Oh, and there is already a generic game machine. It's called the PC. I can hook my PC up to my HDTV if I wanted and play WoW so PC games aren't regulated to the "Desk" anymore.

By swallowing the cost in the trojan-horse 3, then doing a powerplay with their movie studio, which stupidly probably played into the other movie studios decisions to not support HD-DVD. If this was a totally fair fight, HD-DVD and Blu-ray should have had equal studio support and duked it out in the A/V arena to establish a true successor, but Sony had to try and use gamers to subsidize Blu-ray.

I don't really know if MS wants to slow down Blu-ray in hopes of capitalizing on digital downloads, I think MS wants to slow down Blu-ray to keep the 360 propped up. Either way, both companies have used their wallets in underhanded fashions, but it all started with Sony stuffing Blu-ray, unproven on its own, down the throats of gamers. And they are paying dearly for that mistake.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

I see a lot of original IPs coming to the 360 and a lot of sequels coming to PS3...period.

[Gadfly2317]

Yeah. Problem is none of the "Big Three" want a generic game device they want proprietary hardware they can charge developers out the wazoo for big bucks in licensing.

I don't see the feasibility of a generic gaming device. Especially with Nintendo and the way they design systems with specific game concepts in mind for their biggest franchises.

I'm really irked this gen about the piece of crap hardware MS has dumped on the gaming public. 360 and Ps3. . . since they are both so similar, graphical power, the controllers, etc, it'd be nice if they were just one system and all games from both libraries were playable on a single console.

[T.Tashi]

That's not what MS means by "perfect." For them, 'perfect' means 'can't be copied, can't be backed, and plays only on Zunes, Windows PCs and other "MS-approved" players.'

That's why I gladly pay eztakes and I gladly give MS the finger. I had a problem with one of their movies not playing and after I emailed them a guy CALLED me the next day. So they're pretty dedicated to customer service. Their software is rock solid, their downloads are fast and their library is growing all the time. And like I mentioned, I'm free to do with the dvd files what I want. So eztakes presents the public with a desirable business model that benefits the consumer. MS wants to drive optical formats into failure and to quote TMG, force their business model "down the throats" of consumers. And to quote TMG again, Sony is worse. They're always worse. :rolleyes:

Yeah. Problem is none of the "Big Three" want a generic game device they want proprietary hardware they can charge developers out the wazoo for big bucks in licensing.

That's why a generic console is a pipe dream. Nobody is gonna walk away from a billion dollar industry. But if that's what developers want, the PC is the only option.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

That's why I gladly pay eztakes and I gladly give MS the finger. I had a problem with one of their movies not playing and after I emailed them a guy CALLED me the next day. So they're pretty dedicated to customer service. Their software is rock solid, their downloads are fast and their library is growing all the time. And like I mentioned, I'm free to do with the dvd files what I want. So eztakes presents the public with a desirable business model that benefits the consumer. MS wants to drive optical formats into failure and to quote TMG, force their business model "down the throats" of consumers. And to quote TMG again, Sony is worse. They're always worse. :rolleyes:



That's why a generic console is a pipe dream. Nobody is gonna walk away from a billion dollar industry. But if that's what developers want, the PC is the only option.

First of all, Microsoft "wanting to drive optical formats into failure" is just fanboy conjecture. Especially when you consider if they both fail, there is nothing to say Microsoft is going to be the preeminent download choice for America. Second of all, MS isn't forcing them to fail. 360 doesn't even had a HD drive native and Sony still couldn't capitalize with Blu-ray in the PS3 because consumers don't want it or don't feel they need it. HD's failure to catch fire is now Microsoft's fault, you guys are so silly. All MS did was release DVD based console and back HD-DVD on the PC side and as well with an optional add-on, wow that's really as bad as Sony, burying it into their console, unproven and not offering consumers a choice.

This whole thing never should have been decided with videogame consoles and if you can't see that as shifty and underhanded you are just in love with Sony's butt-cavity. Sony knew they couldn't beat HD-DVD outright in the A/V segment, so they got desperate and tried to use gamers. MS did nothing remotely close to that. Dems just the facts.

[theWacoKid]

First of all, Microsoft "wanting to drive optical formats into failure" is just fanboy conjecture. Especially when you consider if they both fail, there is nothing to say Microsoft is going to be the preeminent download choice for America. Second of all, MS isn't forcing them to fail. 360 doesn't even had a HD drive native and Sony still couldn't capitalize with Blu-ray in the PS3 because consumers don't want it or don't feel they need it. HD's failure to catch fire is now Microsoft's fault, you guys are so silly. All MS did was release DVD based console and back HD-DVD on the PC side and as well with an optional add-on, wow that's really as bad as Sony, burying it into their console, unproven and not offering consumers a choice.

This whole thing never should have been decided with videogame consoles and if you can't see that as shifty and underhanded you are just in love with Sony's butt-cavity. Sony knew they couldn't beat HD-DVD outright in the A/V segment, so they got desperate and tried to use gamers. MS did nothing remotely close to that. Dems just the facts.

Still nothing more than a dumbass MS stooge, hey, idiot, don't look now, but MS won't be sending you any cheque in the mail no matter how much MS crack you lick. You wouldn't know facts if they came up and bit you in the crotch.

Sony's business paradigm for their consoles is to maintain them for sale for a ten year period. You're not going to achieve that, you dumb putz, by sticking in a dvd rom drive that's spinning madly away at 12 speed like some other vendor. Dvd is not lasting for another ten years. Sony went with bluray, it was their only choice. Unlike the MS abortion of an hd dvd add on, bluray on the ps3 is for both movies and gaming, the only sensible solution and by integrating it from the start, their solution is also by far and away the most cost expedient and effecient.

There was nothing remotely desparate about what sony did, unlike your uinformed, thoroughly ignorant ramblings. You want to talk desperate, let's talk hd dvd, bribing paramount and dreamworks, NOT to put their films on bluray, cutting a deal with walmart to firesale slowing moving, discontinued hd a2s at $98 in what was really nothing more than an elaborate publicity stunt. What have these measures done for hd dvd? NOTHING. They got their brains beat out even worse in the latest sales figures.

Bluray software sales outsold hd dvd by a 3 to 1 margin in the latest reporting period, ending december 9th. Sony will be upgrading the ps3 to BD profile 1.1, removing one of WB's stumbling blocks to bringing over certain titles with PIP features. Sony has dumped the price on their lowest priced bluray standalone now to $299. And Sony is marketing the hell out of the ps3 and bluray while toshiba sits around with a thumb stuck up their ass.

Couldn't beat hd dvd outright, LMAO, who but toshiba even puts out an hd dvd player. Hd dvd is the betamax of this gen, a one vendor format hanging grimly on by their fingernails. And let's not even get into toshiba being the only hidef vendor peddling 1080i as high def.

When hd dvd croaks, MS will have some major explaining to do and a lot egg wiping from their faces. And they can always count on MS stooges like you to do damage control on forums like this, spinning madly away like their 12X dvd roms, making lots of noise, but little sense.

[T.Tashi]

First of all, Microsoft "wanting to drive optical formats into failure" is just fanboy conjecture. Especially when you consider if they both fail, there is nothing to say Microsoft is going to be the preeminent download choice for America. Second of all, MS isn't forcing them to fail. 360 doesn't even had a HD drive native and Sony still couldn't capitalize with Blu-ray in the PS3 because consumers don't want it or don't feel they need it. HD's failure to catch fire is now Microsoft's fault, you guys are so silly. All MS did was release DVD based console and back HD-DVD on the PC side and as well with an optional add-on, wow that's really as bad as Sony, burying it into their console, unproven and not offering consumers a choice.

This whole thing never should have been decided with videogame consoles and if you can't see that as shifty and underhanded you are just in love with Sony's butt-cavity. Sony knew they couldn't beat HD-DVD outright in the A/V segment, so they got desperate and tried to use gamers. MS did nothing remotely close to that. Dems just the facts.

So Michael Bay is a fanboy?

What you don't understand is corporate politics. Microsoft wants both formats to fail so they can be heroes and make the world move to digital downloads. That is the dirty secret no one is talking about. That is why Microsoft is handing out $100 million dollar checks to studios just embrace the HD DVD and not the leading, and superior Blu Ray. They want confusion in the market until they perfect the digital downloads. Time will tell and you will see the truth.

His quote. So you don't have to be a fanboy to have that theory. He felt so strongly about it he stated he wasn't going to do a Transformers 2, but he backed off of that pretty quickly. And it's not like Sony is in it all alone forcing something on consumers. There is a blu-ray consortium that consists of
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
TDK Corporation
Thomson Multimedia
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Pictures
Warner Bros. Entertainment

So it's 18 companies making consumers do things they don't want with the PS3. DVD is officially outdated. But it's not like people threw their VCRs in the trash when dvds went on the market so dvds aren't going anywhere anytime soon. But it's inadequate for hi def movies and it's fast becoming inadequate for many larger games. I was glad to get bluray support out the box and not have to bother with a peripheral.

[Gadfly2317]

DVD is officially outdated. But it's not like people threw their VCRs in the trash when dvds went on the market so dvds aren't going anywhere anytime soon. But it's inadequate for hi def movies and it's fast becoming inadequate for many larger games. I was glad to get bluray support out the box and not have to bother with a peripheral.

THANK YOU. TMG's "blu ray is being forced on you" schtick is ridiculous. The Ps3 offers consumers better technology for gaming and movies in its larger capacity storage media. The 360 is saddling consumers with last-gen technology.

If its fair to say "Sony is shoving Blu Ray down gamers throats" then its equally valid to say MS is shoving last-gen technology down gamers throats, plain and simple.

[Mochan]

Who cares if Sony is shoving "unwanted" next gen technology down our throats I'm more concerned about MS shoving crap hardware down our throats and I don't mean last gen outdated hardware (I don't mind that) I'm talking really shoddy junk.

[theWacoKid]

THANK YOU. TMG's "blu ray is being forced on you" schtick is ridiculous. The Ps3 offers consumers better technology for gaming and movies in its larger capacity storage media. The 360 is saddling consumers with last-gen technology.

If its fair to say "Sony is shoving Blu Ray down gamers throats" then its equally valid to say MS is shoving last-gen technology down gamers throats, plain and simple.

TMG is ridiculous among other things. The whole notion that videogamers are subsidizing bluray when it is, in fact, sony that is largely subsidizing bluray. Yeah, you pay a little more in terms of the hardware initially, but you only have to add up the cost of a 360 and the half assed hd dvd add on to realize that the ps3 is not only a much better solution but a far more economical solution.

Whatever cost savings MS has by going with dvd rom are all upfronted. There are no savings to be had down the road. Sony on the other hand, will achieve cost savings from falling bluray drive costs in years 2, 3 and 4. When years 2, 3 and 4 have passed the industry will look at MS and chastise them with going for short term savings but saddling their hardware with outdated tech. You can pay now or you can pay later. With MS its pay later and a lot more when you do and the solution is sloppily designed and a hodge podge. MS would've been better off not offering any type of hidef drive. By offering the hd dvd add on, they validated that sony was right all along.

[NEO-360]

System Wars 2008? The more things change the more things stay the same. Thats basically the way I see it. I mean really next year we will see very little exclusive titles and a ton of multiplatform titles between The PS3 and the 360.

Predictions for 2008?

The Wii will continue to sell like mad while the PS3 and the 360 will continue to push software like crazy. The 360 will continue to dominate the software sales, the Wii will continue to fall short in that catagory. While the PS3 will actually start selling more software but will still continue to fall behind the 360. Alot of great games will emerge next year. For all 3 consoles.:p

[ceevee]

System Wars 2008 - i'll be a dedicated PC gamer laughing out loud at the inferiority of consoles. some things are meant to never change

[ilnadmy]

System Wars 2008 - i'll be a dedicated PC gamer laughing out loud at the inferiority of consoles. some things are meant to never change

Hear hear.